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Incoming change to [Dmg] modifier

frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,346 Arc User
From the Tribble patch notes for July 8, 2015:

http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1194200/tribble-maintenance-and-release-notes-july-8-2015
The benefit gained from [Dmg] weapon mods has been improved.
  • This bonus damage gained from a [Dmg] mod is now calculated after all other passive and temporary bonuses are applied, meaning it will amplify those bonuses as well.
  • In addition to this formula change, the value applied by each [Dmg] mod has increased from 2.5% to 3%.
  • Weapons that do not possess at least one [Dmg] mod will see no difference in their overall performance.
  • This will affect both Space and Ground weapons.

Does this mean that the [Dmg] modifier is now in its own category? The wording of the patch notes seems to imply that the [Dmg] modifier applies after all increases to damage strength and after all damage bonuses, including critical severity.

Another question: Will this change also affect the [Ac/Dm] modifier on epic space weapons and the [Dm/CrH] modifier on epic ground weapons?

UPDATE: From the reddit thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3clzts/tribble_release_notes_for_july_8th_2015/cswtkvz
Stacking the new [Dmg] buff is going to be a little wacky. Because each applies to the end, sequentially.

In other words, having two [Dmg] mods that each add 3% damage actually means that the first is 3% and the second is 3.09%. And a third would be 3.1827%. Etc.

Just FYI, we're not going to make widespread use of this type of buff, so don't get your Wild Speculation Pants on. Letting this type of multiplier spread around the game willy-nilly would break... pretty much everything. But as a single type of modifier, that can only affect a single piece of equipment... it's nice and contained.
Post edited by frtoaster on
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Comments

  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,465 Arc User
    Nice, it'd bring into a Category 2 modifier instead of just applying to base. Doesn't matter whether it applies before or after Crit D, you're still going to crit harder from the change on any weapon with [dmg] compared to it's older crit.

    I'm not sure where this'll move the [dmg] mod in the hierarchy of mods, but I suspect that it'll be on par for any build not tweaked especially for Criticals, where [CrtD] will still be tops. It'll take a fair bit of testing to figure this all out.
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    tom61sto wrote: »
    Nice, it'd bring into a Category 2 modifier instead of just applying to base. Doesn't matter whether it applies before or after Crit D, you're still going to crit harder from the change on any weapon with [dmg] compared to it's older crit.

    Bort said it would be category "Infinity", a final damage boost, which if correct, will blow CrtD out of the water if the crits are also boosted by this mod, for a high crit chance and decent base severity build.
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  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    Borticus replied to a few questions in this thread:
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1194204/from-tribble-patch-notes-dmg-gets-a-buff
    tom61sto wrote: »
    Nice, it'd bring into a Category 2 modifier instead of just applying to base. Doesn't matter whether it applies before or after Crit D, you're still going to crit harder from the change on any weapon with [dmg] compared to it's older crit.

    Bort said it would be category "Infinity", a final damage boost, which if correct, will blow CrtD out of the water if the crits are also boosted by this mod, for a high crit chance and decent base severity build.

    I'm not sure it's that big of a buff but we'll see.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,465 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    tom61sto wrote: »
    Nice, it'd bring into a Category 2 modifier instead of just applying to base. Doesn't matter whether it applies before or after Crit D, you're still going to crit harder from the change on any weapon with [dmg] compared to it's older crit.

    Bort said it would be category "Infinity", a final damage boost, which if correct, will blow CrtD out of the water if the crits are also boosted by this mod, for a high crit chance and decent base severity build.

    With 4x Mk XII locators a single [crtd] comes out to about 6-10%, depending on Energy Weapons Specialization Skill, final damage (what'd you'd likely see in a 1000 hit sample) according to http://comatoes.github.io/sto-crit-calc/ Way more than 3% final, though the [dmg] will be on all the time, not reliant on luck.
  • rimmarierimmarie Member Posts: 414 Arc User
    hmm.
    does this mean the Cutting Beam at Epic Level is actually awesome? [Ac/Dm] [Dmg]x4
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    wardcalis wrote: »
    The effect on torps from this change is going to be about 20% more effective because of their base damage.

    Photons with all their crazy buffs. Quantums. And LOL, the Tricobalts with [Dmg] mods!
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  • postinggumpostinggum Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    This change is not game changer, for end game players it makes adv fleet weapons a reasonable choice for players that don't insist on epics and when levelling renders the dmg mod more useful. Time they did something about elite flt weapons.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,720 Arc User
    wardcalis wrote: »
    The effect on torps from this change is going to be about 20% more effective because of their base damage.
    I gained about 920 damage with x1 DMG. No bridge officer buffs running.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    wardcalis wrote: »
    The effect on torps from this change is going to be about 20% more effective because of their base damage.
    I gained about 920 damage with x1 DMG. No bridge officer buffs running.

    What? Did they buff it again or something? Or is it a torp? My fleet DHCs are Mk 14 and [DMG]x2 but only gained 107 DPV.
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  • postinggumpostinggum Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    When is this likely to live? Just asking as this account has a delta recruit and alts, the alts needs their first bunch of end game gear.
    Any confirmation of effect on beams, cannon and torps/mines of 1,2 or 3 dmg mods.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,720 Arc User
    adamkafei wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    wardcalis wrote: »
    The effect on torps from this change is going to be about 20% more effective because of their base damage.
    I gained about 920 damage with x1 DMG. No bridge officer buffs running.

    What? Did they buff it again or something? Or is it a torp? My fleet DHCs are Mk 14 and [DMG]x2 but only gained 107 DPV.
    Sorry my post wasn't as clear as I thought it was after re-reading it. It was a torp.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,465 Arc User
    postinggum wrote: »
    When is this likely to live? Just asking as this account has a delta recruit and alts, the alts needs their first bunch of end game gear.
    Any confirmation of effect on beams, cannon and torps/mines of 1,2 or 3 dmg mods.

    Thursday is my understanding with the launch of Season 10.5.
  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    wardcalis wrote: »
    The effect on torps from this change is going to be about 20% more effective because of their base damage.

    Now then. That's interesting.​​
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  • vakna4837vakna4837 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    Well my Photon science ship is about to start hitting quite a bit harder! (not that it wasn't hitting obscenely hard already with all the buffs available to photons).
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    In the end, isn't what the [Dmg] modifier should be about is...well, gambling? More damage now [Dmg] Vs. a chance for alot more damage later [CritD]?

    At least with this change that becomes a more viable mechanic.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,720 Arc User
    In the end, isn't what the [Dmg] modifier should be about is...well, gambling? More damage now [Dmg] Vs. a chance for alot more damage later [CritD]?

    At least with this change that becomes a more viable mechanic.
    DMG isn't really a gamble. Its more damage now and more damage later when you crit.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I think he's saying that by slotting [Dmg] you should be taking more dependable and steady damage versus the increased damage spike you'd get from having [CritD] in that spot.

    Sort of raising the valleys but lowering the mountains.
  • vakna4837vakna4837 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    So according to the reddit math geniuses the ultimate set up for maxing damage is now crtdx1 dmgx3.. all those dmgx3 arrays i crafted and threw away.. worth a fortune now..
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    vakna4837 wrote: »
    So according to the reddit math geniuses the ultimate set up for maxing damage is now crtdx1 dmgx3.. all those dmgx3 arrays i crafted and threw away.. worth a fortune now..

    So much for that this change would not influence high end builds.

    Well done Cryptc. As customer what am I supposed to think now? Are you lying or just bad at math?

    While we are at it, what is your next plan to change game rules? Make acc work with fire at will or do you consider other means to have players waist their time when being dedicated to your product?
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  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    vakna4837 wrote: »
    So according to the reddit math geniuses the ultimate set up for maxing damage is now crtdx1 dmgx3.. all those dmgx3 arrays i crafted and threw away.. worth a fortune now..

    well then it looks like advanced fleet weapons got good again since they come in that flavor :)
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    vakna4837 wrote: »
    So according to the reddit math geniuses the ultimate set up for maxing damage is now crtdx1 dmgx3.. all those dmgx3 arrays i crafted and threw away.. worth a fortune now..

    well then it looks like advanced fleet weapons got good again since they come in that flavor :)

    My old Elite Fleet Disruptors have found the Fountain of Youth.
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  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    With vindication to us Spiral Wave users. Now, if they can fix/tweak that little [Acc] thing, then it'll be good to be the king.
  • pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 985 Arc User
    With vindication to us Spiral Wave users. Now, if they can fix/tweak that little [Acc] thing, then it'll be good to be the king.

    I'm also glad my upgraded Spiral Wave Disruptors have become more useful ... but I'm still not sure they're as good as the new Coalition Disruptor Beam Arrays with CrtDx2 + Dmg, CrtD + Dmgx2, or Dmgx3.

    The Coalition proc of -20 disruptor resistance for 20 seconds plus the ability to stack that debuff 5 times makes my Spiral Wave Disruptors cry.
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

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  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    Admittedly, that's true. Still, with the effort put into upgrading SWD to UR, switching would seem to put that to waste. Also, excepting Advanced or Elite queues, most stuff doesn't last longer than 20 seconds :P ... and it's still just 2.5% chance to proc.

    I'll keep my orange-ish, rarely seen beams :)
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,961 Arc User
    orange-ish? phasers are orange-ish; spiral waves are pure banana yellow​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    At least they're not Radiant AP TRIBBLE Yellow.
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  • snowpig74snowpig74 Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I did the math, CrtDx4 still best, but dmgx4 is better than CrtHx4 now. CrtDx3 dmg is better than CrtDx3 CrtH, followed by CrtD dmgx3

    So my personal chart for 27% CrtH and 105% CrtD is ( from best to worst ):

    CrtDx4
    CrtDx3 dmg
    CrtDx3 CrtH
    CrtDx2 dmgx2
    CrtDx2 CrtH dmg
    CrtD dmgx3
    CrtDx2 CrtHx2
    CrtD CrtH dmgx2
    dmgx4
    CrtD CrtHx2 dmg
    CrtH dmgx3
    CrtD CrtHx3
    CrtHx4
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