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from tribble patch notes: [DMG] gets a buff

tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
from tribble patch notes:
The benefit gained from [Dmg] weapon mods has been improved.
  • This bonus damage gained from a [Dmg] mod is now calculated after all other passive and temporary bonuses are applied, meaning it will amplify those bonuses as well.
  • In addition to this formula change, the value applied by each [Dmg] mod has increased from 2.5% to 3%.
  • Weapons that do not possess at least one [Dmg] mod will see no difference in their overall performance.
  • This will affect both Space and Ground weapons.


very interesting...
i hope i dont regret vendoring all my [dmg]x2 stuff :(
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Comments

  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    Based on the models and tests we ran internally with this change, it's likely that the [Dmg] mod will still not outstrip the desirability of [CrtD] for well-geared players. But these changes narrow the gap significantly. And players still struggling to get their base Crit Chance & Crit Severity rates up high enough for [CrtD] to be reliable, might end up wanting to switch to [Dmg] weapons instead.

    Shouldn't be a huge game-changer. But we're still anxious to see how players adapt to the change.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • stobg2015stobg2015 Member Posts: 800 Arc User
    Having DMG actually have more than a marginal effect is welcome, but I'm wondering if it will make enough of a difference compared to other modifiers.
    (The Guy Formerly And Still Known As Bluegeek)
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Hopefully it will make those Quad Cannons with DMGx4 stick around on ships.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    Sounds like a good change. Since the base [dmg] mod is I think a 2% improvement anyways, this sounds like really its just taking what [dmg] already did and changing where it goes in the equation. Should make it a worth using for those not running Rom boffs or Spire tac consoles.
  • jkwrangler2010jkwrangler2010 Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    Hopefully my fleet antiprotons will pack a punch again.
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    im not sure if the patch went up yet. i patched up for the armada a few days ago, then it patched again after i read the release notes, so...
    anyway, i did a comparison test using the identical toon orbiting esd on both holo and tribble (copied 5 minutes ago):

    Aux Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII [Acc]x2 [DMG]
    holo: 775.9 Phaser Damage (517.2 DPS)
    tribb: 773.7 Phaser Damage (515.8 DPS)

    not sure what to make of that​​
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    The real difference would be more evident while fully buffed. Tooltips alone won't reflect a huge difference.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    Based on the models and tests we ran internally with this change, it's likely that the [Dmg] mod will still not outstrip the desirability of [CrtD] for well-geared players. But these changes narrow the gap significantly. And players still struggling to get their base Crit Chance & Crit Severity rates up high enough for [CrtD] to be reliable, might end up wanting to switch to [Dmg] weapons instead.

    Shouldn't be a huge game-changer. But we're still anxious to see how players adapt to the change.

    Thanks for the change, and for some of the new goodies we're getting in two weeks since it seems you finally took the time to give science a turn at getting something nice.

  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Thanks for the change, and for some of the new goodies we're getting in two weeks since it seems you finally took the time to give science a turn at getting something nice.
    my sci isnt celebrating just yet. i used the sci to test that aux cannon, and if i need to buff up to see anything other than an decrease in dps... my sci doesnt have a lot of buffs.

    i will have more of a play i guess 7H0tNfX.png
    ​​
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    so glad all my stuff is acc/dmg based not crit
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    Since [Dmg] is applied last now, does this boost plasma explosions from embassy consoles?
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    Since [Dmg] is applied last now, does this boost plasma explosions from embassy consoles?
    it looks like it does, but i dont know how it shapes up in practice:

    jAy59Ju.jpgfyVEGl5.jpg


    ​​
  • lsegnlsegn Member Posts: 594 Arc User
    The real difference would be more evident while fully buffed. Tooltips alone won't reflect a huge difference.

    This is amazing! Now would you mind buffing [CRTH] a bit? I've been here since launch and it seems that y'all have switched from a 1/10 ratio to a 1/5 ratio. I ran a few numbers and I think if y'all doubled it to 4% per Mod it wouldn't outshine [CRTD] completely but it would on certain builds. I'm no expert so I could be totally wrong though! But it would benefit from a bit of a buff. Anyways, thanks for this I'm glad to see some old things revisited. The game has after all changed a lot since launch! A crew mechanic overhaul would also be nice... *hint hint*
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    my sci isnt celebrating just yet. i used the sci to test that aux cannon, and if i need to buff up to see anything other than an decrease in dps... my sci doesnt have a lot of buffs.
    ​​

    The new sci T6 ship trait and the new secondary deflectors seem pretty nice. On the other hand, some of the new equipment like the science consoles seem meh... because, like always, you have to sacrifice a LOT of sci ability points to get something else while when it comes to more DPS, there is no sacrifice involved. Yes, it's not all good. They didn't learn from the fail original fleet engines/deflectors, but at least they did good with the secondary deflectors. Can't win them all in science land.

  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    I am so glad I am not picky about mods, I got a nice pile of these.
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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    my sci isnt celebrating just yet. i used the sci to test that aux cannon, and if i need to buff up to see anything other than an decrease in dps... my sci doesnt have a lot of buffs.
    ​​

    The new sci T6 ship trait and the new secondary deflectors seem pretty nice. On the other hand, some of the new equipment like the science consoles seem meh... because, like always, you have to sacrifice a LOT of sci ability points to get something else while when it comes to more DPS, there is no sacrifice involved. Yes, it's not all good. They didn't learn from the fail original fleet engines/deflectors, but at least they did good with the secondary deflectors. Can't win them all in science land.

    What's wrong with the consoles? I haven't been to Tribble so I don't know how they actually perform.
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    Well with the [Dmg] buff and the fix for the Andorian Escort consoles, my Charal is really happy! I'm liking this patch a lot:smile:
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    And there was much rejoicing!

    I never could part with my quad cannons. (But to be fair, on my fedsci, parses show they are doing the same damage as my DHC's anyway)

    Never did care for the way the value of mods were so skewed. Keeping them close like that will make deciding what gear to upgrade a lot easier for me. I can just upgrade the weapons I happen to have, and be done with it.

    If I really wanted to compete in the DPS race, I'd have re-rolled romtac ages ago.
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  • alex284alex284 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    Since this will multiply with all other bonuses, a new category is being made for dmg? If so, then shouldn't a 3% cat-5 bonus increase tooltip damage more than a 2.5% cat-1 bonus (because it's now multiplying with mark and rarity instead of being added to them)?
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Based on the models and tests we ran internally with this change, it's likely that the [Dmg] mod will still not outstrip the desirability of [CrtD] for well-geared players. But these changes narrow the gap significantly. And players still struggling to get their base Crit Chance & Crit Severity rates up high enough for [CrtD] to be reliable, might end up wanting to switch to [Dmg] weapons instead.

    Shouldn't be a huge game-changer. But we're still anxious to see how players adapt to the change.

    So, at least the Dmg increase at towards the end of it all. Interesting middle ground there, we shall see. Anything is better than what Dmg currently is ingame. Dmg has been terrible since STO launched in 2010 :D
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  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    stobg2015 wrote: »
    Having DMG actually have more than a marginal effect is welcome, but I'm wondering if it will make enough of a difference compared to other modifiers.

    Just the fact players no longer feel so much like avoiding anything with a [DMG] mod in it, I'd say it makes some kind of difference.

    Imagine [CrtH][CrtD][Dmg]x2 before and after the buff.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • orionburstorionburst Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier​​
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  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    So I guess [Dmg] is now, like "Category 2.5" or something? Or was it moved into Category 3?​​
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,754 Arc User
    orionburst wrote: »
    Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier​​
    It depends on your crit chance. At 25% and less crit chance the new dmg works out best.

  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    orionburst wrote: »
    Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier
    It depends on your crit chance. At 25% and less crit chance the new dmg works out best.

    youre suggesting that pretty much everyone but romulans should run [dmg]. i cannot believe that will be the case​​
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Think we have to see the actual outcome when this hits live but the way it reads the changes seem interesting and fair for all. Those of us who cared about mods will still find Crit D/Pen to be on top while peeps which don’t care get a lot better by accident over this. The community can only profit here.

    Uhhhh… And everybody will find his Epic Guns boosted over night. B)
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  • cassiusdiocassiusdio Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    orionburst wrote: »
    Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier​​
    It depends on your crit chance. At 25% and less crit chance the new dmg works out best.

    Would you be so kind and share the math behind this hypothesis?

    I think statements like this are really hard since the buffs play a crucial role now...
  • dakkalvar1dakkalvar1 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    It is more of a bonus for starting players. The synergy of stacking crit and critd is geometric.
  • stumpfgobsstumpfgobs Member Posts: 297 Arc User
    Does that mean that the new dmg mod scales better with attack pattern alpha than before?

  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    Yay lol, exactly what i said it was going to be. Boost the damage proc. It was the only way to improve this proc without destroying it. But, i think unless you use a DMGx3 one, the changes are not going to be really worthy.
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