from tribble patch notes: [DMG] gets a buff

tehbubbaloo

from tribble patch notes:
The benefit gained from [Dmg] weapon mods has been improved.

• This bonus damage gained from a [Dmg] mod is now calculated after all other passive and temporary bonuses are applied, meaning it will amplify those bonuses as well.
• In addition to this formula change, the value applied by each [Dmg] mod has increased from 2.5% to 3%.
• Weapons that do not possess at least one [Dmg] mod will see no difference in their overall performance.
• This will affect both Space and Ground weapons.

very interesting...
i hope i dont regret vendoring all my [dmg]x2 stuff

borticuscryptic

Based on the models and tests we ran internally with this change, it's likely that the [Dmg] mod will still not outstrip the desirability of [CrtD] for well-geared players. But these changes narrow the gap significantly. And players still struggling to get their base Crit Chance & Crit Severity rates up high enough for [CrtD] to be reliable, might end up wanting to switch to [Dmg] weapons instead.

Shouldn't be a huge game-changer. But we're still anxious to see how players adapt to the change.

stobg2015

Having DMG actually have more than a marginal effect is welcome, but I'm wondering if it will make enough of a difference compared to other modifiers.

ltminns

Hopefully it will make those Quad Cannons with DMGx4 stick around on ships.

reginamala78

Sounds like a good change. Since the base [dmg] mod is I think a 2% improvement anyways, this sounds like really its just taking what [dmg] already did and changing where it goes in the equation. Should make it a worth using for those not running Rom boffs or Spire tac consoles.

jkwrangler2010

Hopefully my fleet antiprotons will pack a punch again.

tehbubbaloo

im not sure if the patch went up yet. i patched up for the armada a few days ago, then it patched again after i read the release notes, so...
anyway, i did a comparison test using the identical toon orbiting esd on both holo and tribble (copied 5 minutes ago):

Aux Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII [Acc]x2 [DMG]
holo: 775.9 Phaser Damage (517.2 DPS)
tribb: 773.7 Phaser Damage (515.8 DPS)

not sure what to make of that​​

borticuscryptic

The real difference would be more evident while fully buffed. Tooltips alone won't reflect a huge difference.

lucho80

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Based on the models and tests we ran internally with this change, it's likely that the [Dmg] mod will still not outstrip the desirability of [CrtD] for well-geared players. But these changes narrow the gap significantly. And players still struggling to get their base Crit Chance & Crit Severity rates up high enough for [CrtD] to be reliable, might end up wanting to switch to [Dmg] weapons instead.

Shouldn't be a huge game-changer. But we're still anxious to see how players adapt to the change.

Thanks for the change, and for some of the new goodies we're getting in two weeks since it seems you finally took the time to give science a turn at getting something nice.

tehbubbaloo

lucho80 wrote: »

Thanks for the change, and for some of the new goodies we're getting in two weeks since it seems you finally took the time to give science a turn at getting something nice.

my sci isnt celebrating just yet. i used the sci to test that aux cannon, and if i need to buff up to see anything other than an decrease in dps... my sci doesnt have a lot of buffs.

i will have more of a play i guess
​​

kodachikuno

so glad all my stuff is acc/dmg based not crit

rmy1081

Since [Dmg] is applied last now, does this boost plasma explosions from embassy consoles?

tehbubbaloo

rmy1081 wrote: »

Since [Dmg] is applied last now, does this boost plasma explosions from embassy consoles?

it looks like it does, but i dont know how it shapes up in practice:




​​

lsegn

borticuscryptic wrote: »

The real difference would be more evident while fully buffed. Tooltips alone won't reflect a huge difference.

This is amazing! Now would you mind buffing [CRTH] a bit? I've been here since launch and it seems that y'all have switched from a 1/10 ratio to a 1/5 ratio. I ran a few numbers and I think if y'all doubled it to 4% per Mod it wouldn't outshine [CRTD] completely but it would on certain builds. I'm no expert so I could be totally wrong though! But it would benefit from a bit of a buff. Anyways, thanks for this I'm glad to see some old things revisited. The game has after all changed a lot since launch! A crew mechanic overhaul would also be nice... *hint hint*

lucho80

tehbubbaloo wrote: »

my sci isnt celebrating just yet. i used the sci to test that aux cannon, and if i need to buff up to see anything other than an decrease in dps... my sci doesnt have a lot of buffs.
​​

The new sci T6 ship trait and the new secondary deflectors seem pretty nice. On the other hand, some of the new equipment like the science consoles seem meh... because, like always, you have to sacrifice a LOT of sci ability points to get something else while when it comes to more DPS, there is no sacrifice involved. Yes, it's not all good. They didn't learn from the fail original fleet engines/deflectors, but at least they did good with the secondary deflectors. Can't win them all in science land.

cidjack

I am so glad I am not picky about mods, I got a nice pile of these.

e30ernest

lucho80 wrote: »

tehbubbaloo wrote: »

my sci isnt celebrating just yet. i used the sci to test that aux cannon, and if i need to buff up to see anything other than an decrease in dps... my sci doesnt have a lot of buffs.
​​

The new sci T6 ship trait and the new secondary deflectors seem pretty nice. On the other hand, some of the new equipment like the science consoles seem meh... because, like always, you have to sacrifice a LOT of sci ability points to get something else while when it comes to more DPS, there is no sacrifice involved. Yes, it's not all good. They didn't learn from the fail original fleet engines/deflectors, but at least they did good with the secondary deflectors. Can't win them all in science land.

What's wrong with the consoles? I haven't been to Tribble so I don't know how they actually perform.

rmy1081

Well with the [Dmg] buff and the fix for the Andorian Escort consoles, my Charal is really happy! I'm liking this patch a lot

kimmym

And there was much rejoicing!

I never could part with my quad cannons. (But to be fair, on my fedsci, parses show they are doing the same damage as my DHC's anyway)

Never did care for the way the value of mods were so skewed. Keeping them close like that will make deciding what gear to upgrade a lot easier for me. I can just upgrade the weapons I happen to have, and be done with it.

If I really wanted to compete in the DPS race, I'd have re-rolled romtac ages ago.

alex284

Since this will multiply with all other bonuses, a new category is being made for dmg? If so, then shouldn't a 3% cat-5 bonus increase tooltip damage more than a 2.5% cat-1 bonus (because it's now multiplying with mark and rarity instead of being added to them)?

warmaker001b

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Based on the models and tests we ran internally with this change, it's likely that the [Dmg] mod will still not outstrip the desirability of [CrtD] for well-geared players. But these changes narrow the gap significantly. And players still struggling to get their base Crit Chance & Crit Severity rates up high enough for [CrtD] to be reliable, might end up wanting to switch to [Dmg] weapons instead.

Shouldn't be a huge game-changer. But we're still anxious to see how players adapt to the change.

So, at least the Dmg increase at towards the end of it all. Interesting middle ground there, we shall see. Anything is better than what Dmg currently is ingame. Dmg has been terrible since STO launched in 2010

gradii

stobg2015 wrote: »

Having DMG actually have more than a marginal effect is welcome, but I'm wondering if it will make enough of a difference compared to other modifiers.

Just the fact players no longer feel so much like avoiding anything with a [DMG] mod in it, I'd say it makes some kind of difference.

Imagine [CrtH][CrtD][Dmg]x2 before and after the buff.

orionburst

Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier​​

tk79

So I guess [Dmg] is now, like "Category 2.5" or something? Or was it moved into Category 3?​​

pottsey5g

orionburst wrote: »

Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier​​

It depends on your crit chance. At 25% and less crit chance the new dmg works out best.

tehbubbaloo

pottsey5g wrote: »

orionburst wrote: »

Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier

It depends on your crit chance. At 25% and less crit chance the new dmg works out best.

youre suggesting that pretty much everyone but romulans should run [dmg]. i cannot believe that will be the case​​

peterconnorfirst

Think we have to see the actual outcome when this hits live but the way it reads the changes seem interesting and fair for all. Those of us who cared about mods will still find Crit D/Pen to be on top while peeps which don’t care get a lot better by accident over this. The community can only profit here.

Uhhhh… And everybody will find his Epic Guns boosted over night.

cassiusdio

pottsey5g wrote: »

orionburst wrote: »

Makes me wonder if crtdx2, dmgx2 or crtd3, dmg will be the new optimum as increasing the damage would, I presume, increase the crit damage as dmg is now counted as a buff multiplier​​

It depends on your crit chance. At 25% and less crit chance the new dmg works out best.

Would you be so kind and share the math behind this hypothesis?

I think statements like this are really hard since the buffs play a crucial role now...

dakkalvar1

It is more of a bonus for starting players. The synergy of stacking crit and critd is geometric.

stumpfgobs

Does that mean that the new dmg mod scales better with attack pattern alpha than before?

kittyflofy

Yay lol, exactly what i said it was going to be. Boost the damage proc. It was the only way to improve this proc without destroying it. But, i think unless you use a DMGx3 one, the changes are not going to be really worthy.