Great. A time travel f*ckery story to handwave five years of buildup out of existence.
Give me a frakking break, Craptic.
I've seen enough TV and movies (and read some books, to boot) to know that plot twists foil the easy solutions. I sense that this is not going to go the way 'Team Alpha' is expecting.
if in one of the incoming FE, we must use annorax's weapon, i would skip this FE. it would be totally illogical that the alliance uses this dangerous weapon; or give me the possibility to join the Iconian forces against this alliance full of idiots.
Ever hear of the Godzilla Threshold? It's the point in stories when weapons of this power become a viable option, when any plan, no matter how desperate is considered. In the FE's we are rapidly approaching this point.
The Iconian's have a Dyson Sphere filled with more troops than the alliance combined on our doorstep, the head of the Klingon race is KIA, our opponent has demonstrated the ability to vaporise multiple opponents with a wave of their hands, they have the technology to drop troops anywhere in Alliance space without the need for ships, they nearly took New Romulus and only didn't because their only goal was the gateway.
Meanwhile the alliance has, rescued Sela and prevented the incursion of Solanea from subspace.
Regardless of how things seem outside the FEs, WE ARE LOSING THIS WAR, BADLY! Every 'victory' for the alliance has been tainted by the fact that the only reason we survived when facing an Iconian is down to the fact that Iconian's view us as little more than playthings for the Heralds. Our only victories directly against Iconian's involved weaponizing Omega Particles and the recent discovery of the Kremin. And if those are our only options, I'll take the timeship over Omega Particles, at least the timeship doesn't guarantee destroying civilisation as we know it in the Beta Quadrant.
I don't see why we need to go the route of playing with time. When the war isn't nothing much but a bunch of blogs. And the real war is just a few FEs. Instead of Defending against them. We are forced to do older content just to get Rep Marks.
Oh well it will make an interesting story.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Iconian's have a Dyson Sphere filled with more troops than the alliance combined on our doorstep, the head of the Klingon race is KIA, our opponent has demonstrated the ability to vaporise multiple opponents with a wave of their hands, they have the technology to drop troops anywhere in Alliance space without the need for ships, they nearly took New Romulus and only didn't because their only goal was the gateway.
Meanwhile the alliance has, rescued Sela and prevented the incursion of Solanea from subspace.
Regardless of how things seem outside the FEs, WE ARE LOSING THIS WAR, BADLY! Every 'victory' for the alliance has been tainted by the fact that the only reason we survived when facing an Iconian is down to the fact that Iconian's view us as little more than playthings for the Heralds. Our only victories directly against Iconian's involved weaponizing Omega Particles and the recent discovery of the Kremin. And if those are our only options, I'll take the timeship over Omega Particles, at least the timeship doesn't guarantee destroying civilisation as we know it in the Beta Quadrant.
The Iconian troops was not used. I'm fighting off remnants of the Vaadwar to help the "war effort". And there is no ships to face in sector space. So space is save and sound.
Blogs are losing the war, but not in the game. Its hard to show off a war with only blogs. The Voth, Undine and Vaadwar gave a lot better fight and urgency to do something. Even the Elachi in the Romulan starting story proved to be a force to deal with.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
if in one of the incoming FE, we must use annorax's weapon, i would skip this FE. it would be totally illogical that the alliance uses this dangerous weapon; or give me the possibility to join the Iconian forces against this alliance full of idiots.
I totally agree on this. There hasn't been a reason to go that route. When the battles has been all minor. I will do it to see what they come up with. But if the reward isn't great. I will skip it as well.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Iconian's have a Dyson Sphere filled with more troops than the alliance combined on our doorstep, the head of the Klingon race is KIA, our opponent has demonstrated the ability to vaporise multiple opponents with a wave of their hands, they have the technology to drop troops anywhere in Alliance space without the need for ships, they nearly took New Romulus and only didn't because their only goal was the gateway.
Meanwhile the alliance has, rescued Sela and prevented the incursion of Solanea from subspace.
Regardless of how things seem outside the FEs, WE ARE LOSING THIS WAR, BADLY! Every 'victory' for the alliance has been tainted by the fact that the only reason we survived when facing an Iconian is down to the fact that Iconian's view us as little more than playthings for the Heralds. Our only victories directly against Iconian's involved weaponizing Omega Particles and the recent discovery of the Kremin. And if those are our only options, I'll take the timeship over Omega Particles, at least the timeship doesn't guarantee destroying civilisation as we know it in the Beta Quadrant.
The Iconian troops was not used. I'm fighting off remnants of the Vaadwar to help the "war effort". And there is no ships to face in sector space. So space is save and sound.
Blogs are losing the war, but not in the game. Its hard to show off a war with only blogs. The Voth, Undine and Vaadwar gave a lot better fight and urgency to do something. Even the Elachi in the Romulan starting story proved to be a force to deal with.
Agree completely. This war should look in-game like Mass Effect 3, with Iconian/Herald incursions all over the galaxy, planets getting glassed, and refugees and wounded streaming into social hubs (maybe not direct attacks as some have suggested, but let us see the effects of the war outside the FEs for chrissakes). Instead we get a blog war that 90% of the playerbase probably doesn't even read.
BioWare knows how to run a galactic conflict. Cryptic could stand to copy a few pages from it's competitors' handbooks once in a while.
And no, @bluedarky, the only reason we or the Iconians ever survived direct encounters is because the bloody things only ever turn up in non-interactable cutscenes and seem to exude an incompetence field around them. Don't tell me "using disruptors against an Iconian is like throwing sticks at a starship" (direct quote from "House Pratfall"), let me or an NPC shoot the stupid thing on-screen and find out for myself! That was also Cryptic's mistake back in season 8 with handwaving that the diplomatic route with the Voth went bad offscreen. It's a violation of a basic storytelling principle, "show, don't tell".
if in one of the incoming FE, we must use annorax's weapon, i would skip this FE. it would be totally illogical that the alliance uses this dangerous weapon; or give me the possibility to join the Iconian forces against this alliance full of idiots.
Ever hear of the Godzilla Threshold? It's the point in stories when weapons of this power become a viable option, when any plan, no matter how desperate is considered. In the FE's we are rapidly approaching this point.
To elaborate.... In Rodan, part of why the monsters had to die was that they were laying eggs, and people were panicking at the thought of there being thousands of them. So they pushed the eggs into a live volcano, and the parents died trying to save the eggs.
Then for the big guy himself.... In the original movie, they use a device to kill him that literally killed every living thing in Tokyo harbor. Fish, plants, protozoa, people... anything living that was floating in the water. Oh and probably some stuff out at sea too. It was a man-made ecological disaster, but it was seen as the lesser of two evils.
@Starsword: so what do you think it needs? Having Heralds hunt you down every time you leave space dock? I'm sure some people would find that fun, but for most it would get old fast.
@Starsword: so what do you think it needs? Having Heralds hunt you down every time you leave space dock? I'm sure some people would find that fun, but for most it would get old fast.
Maybe not to that level, but certainly we should be seeing Herald deep space encounters, and red alerts a la the Borg and Tholian invasions.
Maybe not to that level, but certainly we should be seeing Herald deep space encounters, and red alerts a la the Borg and Tholian invasions.
I definitely agree with that. I think that the FE's and Blogs have done a good job of portraying current events. However, the rest of the "world" of STO hasn't caught up. It's the same thing with New Romulus for example. Quite a bit of time has gone by from its initial colonization stage, and yet, It still looks the same. You would think, by now, that some projects would be completed, some more areas accessible.
We should be seeing some herald encounters and the like, unless of course they are playing the Heralds as striking mission locations specifically. It may be that TPTB view them as too powerful, too epic perhaps?, to attack random places. That would be beneath them.
Regardless, what I would like to see, is an all out final push, when It comes down to it. Preferably in a FE, and with all the current available voice actors that they have. Worf, Tuvok, Seven, Nog, and the like.
I for one, am interested to see how Cryptic plays this one.
Agreed. I cannot imagine the Federation would use such a device with those kinds of issues. However, as we really have not seen the damage that ship does in this timeline, perhaps the ramifications have not been fully realized.
While playing the new mission with Nog, I was thinking, the Federation would seriously consent to building a deleting from time weapon?
Well see where it goes..
Oh there is NO chance the federation would use such a device given how retardedly dangerous it is. Omega particles, the borg, the ICONIANS all pale on comparison to how much of a threat the very existence of such a ship poses.
This is either the WORST writing STO has EVER had, or people aren't realizing what it can do.
Given the wording of the Krenim leader, it was very vauge. Hopefully the way the story will go is that Starfleet hasn't quite understood how the ship works.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
That is what I am thinking. That the Krenim are purposefully withholding certain elements about the timeship's operation, so as not to incur ethical problems from the Alliance, which would undoubtedly, stop the construction.
Anyone think that the Mission featuring the Krenim timeship should have the Heralds mostly winning, the three flagships defeated, homeworlds taken, until the Tholians or Undine, or even both, appear out of nowhere and keep the ship from being destroyed long enough for it to be used? That sound worth doing, Dev team?
Anyone think that the Mission featuring the Krenim timeship should have the Heralds mostly winning, the three flagships defeated, homeworlds taken, until the Tholians or Undine, or even both, appear out of nowhere and keep the ship from being destroyed long enough for it to be used? That sound worth doing, Dev team?
No because it involves using the ship.
Now if the krenim steal the ship and change the timeline, but not enough to make sure no one knows about it- (somehow, perhaps the player was protected by some plot device I can't imagine right now having just woke up)
and we have to go through hell to undo what they've done somehow....
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
The Iconian's have a Dyson Sphere filled with more troops than the alliance combined on our doorstep, the head of the Klingon race is KIA, our opponent has demonstrated the ability to vaporise multiple opponents with a wave of their hands, they have the technology to drop troops anywhere in Alliance space without the need for ships, they nearly took New Romulus and only didn't because their only goal was the gateway.
Meanwhile the alliance has, rescued Sela and prevented the incursion of Solanea from subspace.
Regardless of how things seem outside the FEs, WE ARE LOSING THIS WAR, BADLY! Every 'victory' for the alliance has been tainted by the fact that the only reason we survived when facing an Iconian is down to the fact that Iconian's view us as little more than playthings for the Heralds. Our only victories directly against Iconian's involved weaponizing Omega Particles and the recent discovery of the Kremin. And if those are our only options, I'll take the timeship over Omega Particles, at least the timeship doesn't guarantee destroying civilisation as we know it in the Beta Quadrant.
The Iconian troops was not used. I'm fighting off remnants of the Vaadwar to help the "war effort". And there is no ships to face in sector space. So space is save and sound.
Blogs are losing the war, but not in the game. Its hard to show off a war with only blogs. The Voth, Undine and Vaadwar gave a lot better fight and urgency to do something. Even the Elachi in the Romulan starting story proved to be a force to deal with.
Agree completely. This war should look in-game like Mass Effect 3, with Iconian/Herald incursions all over the galaxy, planets getting glassed, and refugees and wounded streaming into social hubs (maybe not direct attacks as some have suggested, but let us see the effects of the war outside the FEs for chrissakes). Instead we get a blog war that 90% of the playerbase probably doesn't even read.
BioWare knows how to run a galactic conflict. Cryptic could stand to copy a few pages from it's competitors' handbooks once in a while.
And no, @bluedarky, the only reason we or the Iconians ever survived direct encounters is because the bloody things only ever turn up in non-interactable cutscenes and seem to exude an incompetence field around them. Don't tell me "using disruptors against an Iconian is like throwing sticks at a starship" (direct quote from "House Pratfall"), let me or an NPC shoot the stupid thing on-screen and find out for myself! That was also Cryptic's mistake back in season 8 with handwaving that the diplomatic route with the Voth went bad offscreen. It's a violation of a basic storytelling principle, "show, don't tell".
There's another thing, Starsword. The Iconians are abject morons.
Not only is their greatest power forcing everyone else to suffer Cutscene Incompetence (in Blood of Ancients, I was one-shotting Defilers with my projectile rifle one minute and then running away holding a wimpy plasma pistol that wasn't even in my equipped items as the Iconian vaped a bunch of random civilians who came out of nowhere the next; what the actual f***?), but the Iconians are the most abject numbskulls since House Pig-Headed Fools.
In "Surface Tension", an Iconian, apparently their leader, casually walks into a hall full of heavily-armed and extremely riled-up Klingons and a few dozen Starfleet and Romulan badasses who just got done roasting the Undine on a spit when the Undine invaded full-scale. Just walks in.
If it weren't for the defensive incompetence field, that Iconian would've been completely shredded in a second by everybody in the hall shooting it at once. Guys. Those are KLINGONS. They probably have weapons strapped to their d***s! And Admiral Awesomename personally soloed over thirty Jem'Hadar, including First Kar'Ukan himself! And failing that, Worf's right there. The guy who beat like 20 Jem'Hadar in a row one-on-one. The guy who cut the arm off of a Borg drone and used its cabling to stitch his spacesuit shut while bleeding atmo. Who understudied under The Sisko (first name, Don't F*** With). No way Supreme High Poobah Unbearable-Speech-of-Arrogance is waking out of there.
Then in Uneasy Allies, multiple parties just infiltrate their invasion sphere and get like one Herald and a few Elachi sent after them. Despite one of these parties containing Admiral Awesomename, who chews through Elachi like candy bars and once killed an Iconian when it stupidly walked into the middle of the Great Hall on Qo'noS to give an arrogant speech.
Blood of Ancients. First Iconian flies out of a gateway with its back to Admiral Awesomename, who again is the greatest Badass in the galaxy save maybe for The Sisko, and starts killing people while telling them that they suck. STILL with its back to Our Hero, who promptly shoots the moronic thing in the back of the head, sparing the galaxy from its arrogance runs away in terror.
Second Iconian flies out of a gateway in the middle of a firefight, with Admiral Awesomename and a bunch of heavily-armed soldiers (in my case including a Jem'Hadar First and a brain-eating Lethean) sitting right there lazily one-shotting Heralds (thank you, tac buffs), and kills the Preserver, again saved solely by Cutscene Incompetence. There was no reason at all to go there on the ground. None. A competent commander would have destroyed the intel source by flying a couple dreadnoughts and enough battleships to blot out the sun from a gate, then just destroyed the planet with Admiral Awesomename still on it.
Yeah. Could've killed your single greatest enemy AND destroyed the vital intel source, but you nimrods decided you'd rather make an arrogant speech to your "parents" about how great you are now. Really taking you seriously, you overgrown crybaby teenagers.
The best part? The Iconians give us lots of intel in their arrogant speeches, as well. Talking about how old and powerful they are? They give us a surprising amount of specifics if you can tolerate their arrogance long enough to listen carefully.
T'Ket. OK, so in this case the opposition is already barely sentient (Admiral Awesomename and B'Eler excepted, I don't know WHAT that woman sees in that dumb thug, she should've gone for a nice Vulcan girl), but seriously, just sort of sitting there at Kahless taunts you? Seriously? Vape him. Vape him immediately. Obfuscating Stupidity is a thing, and he's acting like a complete imbecile, so the logical thing would be to assume that he's also got a gun, or a sniper hanging around somewhere. So vape him like your arrogant fool boss did the High Council before being shot by about 100 Klingons at once, numbskull. Vape him, gate out, and have your Heralds sweep the entire facility en masse, then do the same in space.
Then there's the crown jewel of Iconian dumbf***ery: "Time in a Bottle". OK, so you have a seemingly-empty moon...in a system formerly controlled by the people best able to one-shot your entire species because they are experts on your well-known Achilles heel...and Admiral Awesomename was there but now is gone, so xir ship is without a shadow of a doubt in orbit, cloaked, and with torpedoes and sensors aimed at the planet...and since Admiral Awesomename disappeared without even a transporter trace, it's almost certain that xe is hiding in a nearby time-bubble, which, again, you can't see or touch without losing your memories, so...
WHY THE HECK DO YOU GATE IN 15 IMPORTANT-SEEMING ICONIANS, RIGHT WHERE A TORPEDO CAN ONE-SHOT THE BUNCH, AND START TALKING ABOUT IMPORTANT STUFF? Why not do this back at your new base, IN THE FREAKING ANDROMEDA GALAXY HOWEVER MANY MILLION LIGHT-YEARS AWAY?????????
It's ridiculously simple! Admiral Awesomename records your speech, they pop out of the time bubble and send a burst including orders and the intel to xir ship, the ship sends on the intel to Nog's ship which books it, and Admiral Awesomename's ship blows up the Iconians and if xe's unlucky the Admiral too, but it's a small price to pay for the galaxy! No more than a few thousand lives (if you're flying a giant cruiser). For the entire galaxy.
Seriously, the Iconians are their own worst enemy. They have literally handed us victory after victory on a silver platter, up to and including giving us the seed to their own destruction.
Congratulations, Iconians. Making that pirate numbskull who got my Shepard her Star of Terra look like a genius. Heck, making my main Iconian villain, Supreme High Lord Inevitably-Fated-for-Greatness, look like a genius; at least HIS arrogant speeches are contentless! OK, mostly because he doesn't pay attention to vital intel because he hates anything that looks like work, but at least he doesn't hand massively important state secrets to the enemy on a weekly basis!
Seriously, the Iconians are their own worst enemy. They have literally handed us victory after victory on a silver platter, up to and including giving us the seed to their own destruction.
Congratulations, Iconians. Making that pirate numbskull who got my Shepard her Star of Terra look like a genius. Heck, making my main Iconian villain, Supreme High Lord Inevitably-Fated-for-Greatness, look like a genius; at least HIS arrogant speeches are contentless! OK, mostly because he doesn't pay attention to vital intel because he hates anything that looks like work, but at least he doesn't hand massively important state secrets to the enemy on a weekly basis!
Taris told me that Iconian's mastered time and space through the gateways (dimensional travel involves time and space, interesting enough), and yet now they have a problem with the time equation. Fasinating.
Taris told me that Iconian's mastered time and space through the gateways (dimensional travel involves time and space, interesting enough), and yet now they have a problem with the time equation. Fasinating.
Time travel causes amnesia in Iconians.
It's ridiculously simple! Admiral Awesomename records your speech, they pop out of the time bubble and send a burst including orders and the intel to xir ship, the ship sends on the intel to Nog's ship which books it, and Admiral Awesomename's ship blows up the Iconians
You can't contact your ship you "don't exist" I wouldn't be surprised if your combadges won't work
while Out of All Timelines.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Taris told me that Iconian's mastered time and space through the gateways (dimensional travel involves time and space, interesting enough), and yet now they have a problem with the time equation. Fasinating.
Time travel causes amnesia in Iconians.
Which directly contradicts what Taris said. Of course, Taris could've been wrong.
It's ridiculously simple! Admiral Awesomename records your speech, they pop out of the time bubble and send a burst including orders and the intel to xir ship, the ship sends on the intel to Nog's ship which books it, and Admiral Awesomename's ship blows up the Iconians
You can't contact your ship you "don't exist" I wouldn't be surprised if your combadges won't work
while Out of All Timelines.
Worfie specifically said you would jump back into your regular timeline to send the message...
T'Ket. OK, so in this case the opposition is already barely sentient (Admiral Awesomename and B'Eler excepted, I don't know WHAT that woman sees in that dumb thug, she should've gone for a nice Vulcan girl), but seriously, just sort of sitting there at Kahless taunts you? Seriously? Vape him. Vape him immediately. Obfuscating Stupidity is a thing, and he's acting like a complete imbecile, so the logical thing would be to assume that he's also got a gun, or a sniper hanging around somewhere. So vape him like your arrogant fool boss did the High Council before being shot by about 100 Klingons at once, numbskull. Vape him, gate out, and have your Heralds sweep the entire facility en masse, then do the same in space.
Actually, that one I interpreted as, Kahless the Fool was such an obvious non-threat that T'Ket was ignoring him until he managed to annoy her.
T'Ket. OK, so in this case the opposition is already barely sentient (Admiral Awesomename and B'Eler excepted, I don't know WHAT that woman sees in that dumb thug, she should've gone for a nice Vulcan girl), but seriously, just sort of sitting there at Kahless taunts you? Seriously? Vape him. Vape him immediately. Obfuscating Stupidity is a thing, and he's acting like a complete imbecile, so the logical thing would be to assume that he's also got a gun, or a sniper hanging around somewhere. So vape him like your arrogant fool boss did the High Council before being shot by about 100 Klingons at once, numbskull. Vape him, gate out, and have your Heralds sweep the entire facility en masse, then do the same in space.
Actually, that one I interpreted as, Kahless the Fool was such an obvious non-threat that T'Ket was ignoring him until he managed to annoy her.
But that's the problem. Kahless the Fool is so obvious that an intelligent opponent would've recognized the obvious Obfuscating Stupidity.
That would be what passes for clever among certain Klingon philosophies, after all. Have one guy go out and be the target while the others snipe the enemy.
Besides, after he got the Iconian's attention...why not just vape him? I mean, come ON! Not even SHLIFFG is that stupid!
And SHLIFFG started out as a freaking parody! The numbskull Iconians in STO have successfully outstripped the incompetence of a character who I first created to be the most Stupid Evil numbskull I could imagine. OK, so he's getting some character development, but seriously!
If it turns out we're supposed to use the Weapon to wipe out an entire civilization, the last lingering echoes of Roddenberry's idealism in Star Trek Online will be wiped out with it.
If the Federation, et. al., try it and it doesn't work, that still applies. In fact, the only reason I can accept they've not already crossed that moral threshold is that Nog and his team don't entirely understand the Weapon yet.
Agreed. I cannot imagine the Federation would use such a device with those kinds of issues. However, as we really have not seen the damage that ship does in this timeline, perhaps the ramifications have not been fully realized.
While playing the new mission with Nog, I was thinking, the Federation would seriously consent to building a deleting from time weapon?
Well see where it goes..
Oh there is NO chance the federation would use such a device given how retardedly dangerous it is. Omega particles, the borg, the ICONIANS all pale on comparison to how much of a threat the very existence of such a ship poses.
This is either the WORST writing STO has EVER had, or people aren't realizing what it can do.
Given the wording of the Krenim leader, it was very vauge. Hopefully the way the story will go is that Starfleet hasn't quite understood how the ship works.
Actually... The Feds in universe don't seem to understand what it can do. They've never seen it in action and it seems like the Krenim haven't either.
If it turns out we're supposed to use the Weapon to wipe out an entire civilization, the last lingering echoes of Roddenberry's idealism in Star Trek Online will be wiped out with it.
If the Federation, et. al., try it and it doesn't work, that still applies. In fact, the only reason I can accept they've not already crossed that moral threshold is that Nog and his team don't entirely understand the Weapon yet.
It's like Cochrane said "Vision? My vision was of retiring to a private island filled with naked women."
That is what I am thinking. That the Krenim are purposefully withholding certain elements about the timeship's operation, so as not to incur ethical problems from the Alliance, which would undoubtedly, stop the construction.
This would certainly be in keeping with the typical Delta Quadrant pattern--only broken by the Benthans, IMO--that all of our allies are awful people.
Taris told me that Iconian's mastered time and space through the gateways (dimensional travel involves time and space, interesting enough), and yet now they have a problem with the time equation. Fasinating.
Time travel causes amnesia in Iconians.
It's ridiculously simple! Admiral Awesomename records your speech, they pop out of the time bubble and send a burst including orders and the intel to xir ship, the ship sends on the intel to Nog's ship which books it, and Admiral Awesomename's ship blows up the Iconians
You can't contact your ship you "don't exist" I wouldn't be surprised if your combadges won't work
while Out of All Timelines.
In "Year of H*ll," we saw transporters work while out of all timelines. Also, as far as Annorax's ship was concerned, visible light was still getting through. Remember that Voyager could see the timeship even though they couldn't inflict any damage on it. Visible light by nature implies transmission capabilities, even if just a simple infrared beam or other light-emitted transmission system. So at the very least, you have sublight communications capabilities.
Now, I DO consider Voyager's depiction of Annorax's ship to be a continuity breach with "Time's Arrow," which shows that in the Trek universe, being temporally out of alignment causes one to be invisible. If +.004 phase--which I will remind you is a fraction of a second--will make you invisible, then surely being out of the timeline should've made it even more so.
(And also, seeing the Heralds and Iconians at +.500 phase, in "Time in a Bottle"...that only makes sense if the Krenim installed something made to allow that. I mean, if +.004 is such a major disjoint, +.500 is that by a factor of...125, I think. I can just hear Alyosha saying, "Even I shouldn't be able to see that!")
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I agree. The portrayal of the Iconians as "invincible super beings" should have been earned. For instance, in Surface Tension, the cutscene should have showed the assembled Klingons firing at M'Tara with no effect. Same thing in House Pegh and Blood of Ancients. Unfortunately, since that didn't happen, we are forced to go along with the Iconians' unearned invincibility.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Oh WHY do i suddenly get the impression that I know how some of this is going to go (I hope not, I like well written surprises - and this is the best we have for Star Trek episodes right now).
I can't help but think about what we know about the Iconians in Starfleet/Beta Quadrant history especially after just having rewatched 'Contagion' from Series 2 of TNG per chance yesterday.
I get the impression with Annorax's timeship in the mix, that Starfleet is going to go back in time and try to wipe out the Iconians in the first place (mass genocide anyone?). Perhaps the whole 'Battle' to stop the Iconians is going to the be one that happened in the past in the first place -200 millennia ago (remember the Iconians were basically wiped out by an alliance of races from across the galaxy way back when) and that little information other than rumours and hearsay was left behind... sounds like a Starfleet lead Multi-Quadrant alliance going back in time to wipe them out before they got too powerful to me. Then trying to do their best to leave little behind to pollute the timeline in other ways. It doesn't stop the Iconians in the present but probably insights the war in the first place, as Picard himself said in that episode -"these people don't seem like the conquers" or some such. Maybe they weren't nasty way back when, until we poked them in their behinds in the first place...who knows.
I also get the impression they may have looked more human/normal like instead of the glowy energy alien back then and the 'Other' changed them into what they look like now in his 'efforts' to save them. Would explain why the Iconian transport room looked so normal in 'Contagion' and why the 1 person gateway was more human standard size too as Iconians are massive now and would not have fit through that gateway on Iconia that Picard destroyed.
This however also doesn't do much however to figure out what this 'Other' who saved them is, and this whole quasi-religious thing of the 'Whole' is. That is what I think is most interesting right now...who is this Other and the Whole- I see this leading up to be a bigger enemy then the Iconians and probably the next series of things we might be exploring in further seasons ahead.
Regardless I agree with others having written above that messing with the timeline is dangerous...temporal accords anyone? Perhaps we are even heading that way too? Who knows. Quite a lot that the Devs can mess with and load of ideas in my head lol.
Just do a good job writing Devs and Im sure you will make a lot of us happy....though one small request of you Devs if you are reading - ALLOW us to SKIP the CUT SCENES! On repeated playback I can't stand having to watch them again and again and again. It's driving me nuts and I know the Devs have the ability to enable us to skip them as some of the cut scenes in the past episodes ARE skippable. I don't know why you don't enable them for ALL of the episodes, but I agree my blood pressure goes through the roof waiting for them to finish after I have seen them already loads of times...
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Maybe, but I still think it's somewhat of a red herring.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
I've seen enough TV and movies (and read some books, to boot) to know that plot twists foil the easy solutions. I sense that this is not going to go the way 'Team Alpha' is expecting.
Yay they are going to wipe out tons of my characters good for them because they can afford to lose customers lol
My character Tsin'xing
Ever hear of the Godzilla Threshold? It's the point in stories when weapons of this power become a viable option, when any plan, no matter how desperate is considered. In the FE's we are rapidly approaching this point.
The Iconian's have a Dyson Sphere filled with more troops than the alliance combined on our doorstep, the head of the Klingon race is KIA, our opponent has demonstrated the ability to vaporise multiple opponents with a wave of their hands, they have the technology to drop troops anywhere in Alliance space without the need for ships, they nearly took New Romulus and only didn't because their only goal was the gateway.
Meanwhile the alliance has, rescued Sela and prevented the incursion of Solanea from subspace.
Regardless of how things seem outside the FEs, WE ARE LOSING THIS WAR, BADLY! Every 'victory' for the alliance has been tainted by the fact that the only reason we survived when facing an Iconian is down to the fact that Iconian's view us as little more than playthings for the Heralds. Our only victories directly against Iconian's involved weaponizing Omega Particles and the recent discovery of the Kremin. And if those are our only options, I'll take the timeship over Omega Particles, at least the timeship doesn't guarantee destroying civilisation as we know it in the Beta Quadrant.
Oh well it will make an interesting story.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
It'll be no surprise to me when something goes wrong and the Krenim either betray us, or the weapon significantly messes up badly for the Alliance.
OR
We'll pull a "In the Pale Moonlight" a la Sisko and totally TRIBBLE someone over to achieve success because right now, the ends justify the means.
In conclusion, I watch too much TV and too many movies. Let's all have a cookie!
The Iconian troops was not used. I'm fighting off remnants of the Vaadwar to help the "war effort". And there is no ships to face in sector space. So space is save and sound.
Blogs are losing the war, but not in the game. Its hard to show off a war with only blogs. The Voth, Undine and Vaadwar gave a lot better fight and urgency to do something. Even the Elachi in the Romulan starting story proved to be a force to deal with.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I totally agree on this. There hasn't been a reason to go that route. When the battles has been all minor. I will do it to see what they come up with. But if the reward isn't great. I will skip it as well.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Agree completely. This war should look in-game like Mass Effect 3, with Iconian/Herald incursions all over the galaxy, planets getting glassed, and refugees and wounded streaming into social hubs (maybe not direct attacks as some have suggested, but let us see the effects of the war outside the FEs for chrissakes). Instead we get a blog war that 90% of the playerbase probably doesn't even read.
BioWare knows how to run a galactic conflict. Cryptic could stand to copy a few pages from it's competitors' handbooks once in a while.
And no, @bluedarky, the only reason we or the Iconians ever survived direct encounters is because the bloody things only ever turn up in non-interactable cutscenes and seem to exude an incompetence field around them. Don't tell me "using disruptors against an Iconian is like throwing sticks at a starship" (direct quote from "House Pratfall"), let me or an NPC shoot the stupid thing on-screen and find out for myself! That was also Cryptic's mistake back in season 8 with handwaving that the diplomatic route with the Voth went bad offscreen. It's a violation of a basic storytelling principle, "show, don't tell".
Then for the big guy himself.... In the original movie, they use a device to kill him that literally killed every living thing in Tokyo harbor. Fish, plants, protozoa, people... anything living that was floating in the water. Oh and probably some stuff out at sea too. It was a man-made ecological disaster, but it was seen as the lesser of two evils.
@Starsword: so what do you think it needs? Having Heralds hunt you down every time you leave space dock? I'm sure some people would find that fun, but for most it would get old fast.
My character Tsin'xing
Maybe not to that level, but certainly we should be seeing Herald deep space encounters, and red alerts a la the Borg and Tholian invasions.
I definitely agree with that. I think that the FE's and Blogs have done a good job of portraying current events. However, the rest of the "world" of STO hasn't caught up. It's the same thing with New Romulus for example. Quite a bit of time has gone by from its initial colonization stage, and yet, It still looks the same. You would think, by now, that some projects would be completed, some more areas accessible.
We should be seeing some herald encounters and the like, unless of course they are playing the Heralds as striking mission locations specifically. It may be that TPTB view them as too powerful, too epic perhaps?, to attack random places. That would be beneath them.
Regardless, what I would like to see, is an all out final push, when It comes down to it. Preferably in a FE, and with all the current available voice actors that they have. Worf, Tuvok, Seven, Nog, and the like.
I for one, am interested to see how Cryptic plays this one.
Oh there is NO chance the federation would use such a device given how retardedly dangerous it is. Omega particles, the borg, the ICONIANS all pale on comparison to how much of a threat the very existence of such a ship poses.
This is either the WORST writing STO has EVER had, or people aren't realizing what it can do.
Given the wording of the Krenim leader, it was very vauge. Hopefully the way the story will go is that Starfleet hasn't quite understood how the ship works.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
No because it involves using the ship.
Now if the krenim steal the ship and change the timeline, but not enough to make sure no one knows about it- (somehow, perhaps the player was protected by some plot device I can't imagine right now having just woke up)
and we have to go through hell to undo what they've done somehow....
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
There's another thing, Starsword. The Iconians are abject morons.
Not only is their greatest power forcing everyone else to suffer Cutscene Incompetence (in Blood of Ancients, I was one-shotting Defilers with my projectile rifle one minute and then running away holding a wimpy plasma pistol that wasn't even in my equipped items as the Iconian vaped a bunch of random civilians who came out of nowhere the next; what the actual f***?), but the Iconians are the most abject numbskulls since House Pig-Headed Fools.
In "Surface Tension", an Iconian, apparently their leader, casually walks into a hall full of heavily-armed and extremely riled-up Klingons and a few dozen Starfleet and Romulan badasses who just got done roasting the Undine on a spit when the Undine invaded full-scale. Just walks in.
If it weren't for the defensive incompetence field, that Iconian would've been completely shredded in a second by everybody in the hall shooting it at once. Guys. Those are KLINGONS. They probably have weapons strapped to their d***s! And Admiral Awesomename personally soloed over thirty Jem'Hadar, including First Kar'Ukan himself! And failing that, Worf's right there. The guy who beat like 20 Jem'Hadar in a row one-on-one. The guy who cut the arm off of a Borg drone and used its cabling to stitch his spacesuit shut while bleeding atmo. Who understudied under The Sisko (first name, Don't F*** With). No way Supreme High Poobah Unbearable-Speech-of-Arrogance is waking out of there.
Then in Uneasy Allies, multiple parties just infiltrate their invasion sphere and get like one Herald and a few Elachi sent after them. Despite one of these parties containing Admiral Awesomename, who chews through Elachi like candy bars and once killed an Iconian when it stupidly walked into the middle of the Great Hall on Qo'noS to give an arrogant speech.
Blood of Ancients. First Iconian flies out of a gateway with its back to Admiral Awesomename, who again is the greatest Badass in the galaxy save maybe for The Sisko, and starts killing people while telling them that they suck. STILL with its back to Our Hero, who promptly shoots the moronic thing in the back of the head, sparing the galaxy from its arrogance runs away in terror.
Second Iconian flies out of a gateway in the middle of a firefight, with Admiral Awesomename and a bunch of heavily-armed soldiers (in my case including a Jem'Hadar First and a brain-eating Lethean) sitting right there lazily one-shotting Heralds (thank you, tac buffs), and kills the Preserver, again saved solely by Cutscene Incompetence. There was no reason at all to go there on the ground. None. A competent commander would have destroyed the intel source by flying a couple dreadnoughts and enough battleships to blot out the sun from a gate, then just destroyed the planet with Admiral Awesomename still on it.
Yeah. Could've killed your single greatest enemy AND destroyed the vital intel source, but you nimrods decided you'd rather make an arrogant speech to your "parents" about how great you are now. Really taking you seriously, you overgrown crybaby teenagers.
The best part? The Iconians give us lots of intel in their arrogant speeches, as well. Talking about how old and powerful they are? They give us a surprising amount of specifics if you can tolerate their arrogance long enough to listen carefully.
T'Ket. OK, so in this case the opposition is already barely sentient (Admiral Awesomename and B'Eler excepted, I don't know WHAT that woman sees in that dumb thug, she should've gone for a nice Vulcan girl), but seriously, just sort of sitting there at Kahless taunts you? Seriously? Vape him. Vape him immediately. Obfuscating Stupidity is a thing, and he's acting like a complete imbecile, so the logical thing would be to assume that he's also got a gun, or a sniper hanging around somewhere. So vape him like your arrogant fool boss did the High Council before being shot by about 100 Klingons at once, numbskull. Vape him, gate out, and have your Heralds sweep the entire facility en masse, then do the same in space.
Then there's the crown jewel of Iconian dumbf***ery: "Time in a Bottle". OK, so you have a seemingly-empty moon...in a system formerly controlled by the people best able to one-shot your entire species because they are experts on your well-known Achilles heel...and Admiral Awesomename was there but now is gone, so xir ship is without a shadow of a doubt in orbit, cloaked, and with torpedoes and sensors aimed at the planet...and since Admiral Awesomename disappeared without even a transporter trace, it's almost certain that xe is hiding in a nearby time-bubble, which, again, you can't see or touch without losing your memories, so...
WHY THE HECK DO YOU GATE IN 15 IMPORTANT-SEEMING ICONIANS, RIGHT WHERE A TORPEDO CAN ONE-SHOT THE BUNCH, AND START TALKING ABOUT IMPORTANT STUFF? Why not do this back at your new base, IN THE FREAKING ANDROMEDA GALAXY HOWEVER MANY MILLION LIGHT-YEARS AWAY?????????
It's ridiculously simple! Admiral Awesomename records your speech, they pop out of the time bubble and send a burst including orders and the intel to xir ship, the ship sends on the intel to Nog's ship which books it, and Admiral Awesomename's ship blows up the Iconians and if xe's unlucky the Admiral too, but it's a small price to pay for the galaxy! No more than a few thousand lives (if you're flying a giant cruiser). For the entire galaxy.
Seriously, the Iconians are their own worst enemy. They have literally handed us victory after victory on a silver platter, up to and including giving us the seed to their own destruction.
Congratulations, Iconians. Making that pirate numbskull who got my Shepard her Star of Terra look like a genius. Heck, making my main Iconian villain, Supreme High Lord Inevitably-Fated-for-Greatness, look like a genius; at least HIS arrogant speeches are contentless! OK, mostly because he doesn't pay attention to vital intel because he hates anything that looks like work, but at least he doesn't hand massively important state secrets to the enemy on a weekly basis!
I did mention bad writing.
You can't contact your ship you "don't exist" I wouldn't be surprised if your combadges won't work
while Out of All Timelines.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Which directly contradicts what Taris said. Of course, Taris could've been wrong.
Worfie specifically said you would jump back into your regular timeline to send the message...
Actually, that one I interpreted as, Kahless the Fool was such an obvious non-threat that T'Ket was ignoring him until he managed to annoy her.
But that's the problem. Kahless the Fool is so obvious that an intelligent opponent would've recognized the obvious Obfuscating Stupidity.
That would be what passes for clever among certain Klingon philosophies, after all. Have one guy go out and be the target while the others snipe the enemy.
Besides, after he got the Iconian's attention...why not just vape him? I mean, come ON! Not even SHLIFFG is that stupid!
And SHLIFFG started out as a freaking parody! The numbskull Iconians in STO have successfully outstripped the incompetence of a character who I first created to be the most Stupid Evil numbskull I could imagine. OK, so he's getting some character development, but seriously!
If the Federation, et. al., try it and it doesn't work, that still applies. In fact, the only reason I can accept they've not already crossed that moral threshold is that Nog and his team don't entirely understand the Weapon yet.
My character Tsin'xing
This would certainly be in keeping with the typical Delta Quadrant pattern--only broken by the Benthans, IMO--that all of our allies are awful people.
In "Year of H*ll," we saw transporters work while out of all timelines. Also, as far as Annorax's ship was concerned, visible light was still getting through. Remember that Voyager could see the timeship even though they couldn't inflict any damage on it. Visible light by nature implies transmission capabilities, even if just a simple infrared beam or other light-emitted transmission system. So at the very least, you have sublight communications capabilities.
Now, I DO consider Voyager's depiction of Annorax's ship to be a continuity breach with "Time's Arrow," which shows that in the Trek universe, being temporally out of alignment causes one to be invisible. If +.004 phase--which I will remind you is a fraction of a second--will make you invisible, then surely being out of the timeline should've made it even more so.
(And also, seeing the Heralds and Iconians at +.500 phase, in "Time in a Bottle"...that only makes sense if the Krenim installed something made to allow that. I mean, if +.004 is such a major disjoint, +.500 is that by a factor of...125, I think. I can just hear Alyosha saying, "Even I shouldn't be able to see that!")
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Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
I can't help but think about what we know about the Iconians in Starfleet/Beta Quadrant history especially after just having rewatched 'Contagion' from Series 2 of TNG per chance yesterday.
I get the impression with Annorax's timeship in the mix, that Starfleet is going to go back in time and try to wipe out the Iconians in the first place (mass genocide anyone?). Perhaps the whole 'Battle' to stop the Iconians is going to the be one that happened in the past in the first place -200 millennia ago (remember the Iconians were basically wiped out by an alliance of races from across the galaxy way back when) and that little information other than rumours and hearsay was left behind... sounds like a Starfleet lead Multi-Quadrant alliance going back in time to wipe them out before they got too powerful to me. Then trying to do their best to leave little behind to pollute the timeline in other ways. It doesn't stop the Iconians in the present but probably insights the war in the first place, as Picard himself said in that episode -"these people don't seem like the conquers" or some such. Maybe they weren't nasty way back when, until we poked them in their behinds in the first place...who knows.
I also get the impression they may have looked more human/normal like instead of the glowy energy alien back then and the 'Other' changed them into what they look like now in his 'efforts' to save them. Would explain why the Iconian transport room looked so normal in 'Contagion' and why the 1 person gateway was more human standard size too as Iconians are massive now and would not have fit through that gateway on Iconia that Picard destroyed.
This however also doesn't do much however to figure out what this 'Other' who saved them is, and this whole quasi-religious thing of the 'Whole' is. That is what I think is most interesting right now...who is this Other and the Whole- I see this leading up to be a bigger enemy then the Iconians and probably the next series of things we might be exploring in further seasons ahead.
Regardless I agree with others having written above that messing with the timeline is dangerous...temporal accords anyone? Perhaps we are even heading that way too? Who knows. Quite a lot that the Devs can mess with and load of ideas in my head lol.
Just do a good job writing Devs and Im sure you will make a lot of us happy....though one small request of you Devs if you are reading - ALLOW us to SKIP the CUT SCENES! On repeated playback I can't stand having to watch them again and again and again. It's driving me nuts and I know the Devs have the ability to enable us to skip them as some of the cut scenes in the past episodes ARE skippable. I don't know why you don't enable them for ALL of the episodes, but I agree my blood pressure goes through the roof waiting for them to finish after I have seen them already loads of times...
"The Whole must be as One" :P GAAAHH! Rofl
Anyhow happy Phasering everyone