Funny you should say that...being Fed only ensures that ONLY maniacs and gorillas can use it!
I'm a proud maniac and gorilla. Feds are the first thing people think of when they think Star Trek.
I like Romulans and KDF fine, and protest the neglect of those factions, but Feds will always be my first choice.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I also think that if Science Vessels really sell poorly, they should make "free" ones - Event ships.
The quality of the ship is not that critical for the success of event ships.
People want event ships often just because they are event ships, and now with the new "grind it now or get it never"-policy in place, it becomes extra attractive. If the consoles are part of a set, even more so.
Bonus - they don't need to make a KDF or Romulan one. Just a single ship that can be used by all factions.
But maybe I am just bitter I didn't get my Yellow Science Vessel Submarine yet.
Of course, a faction-specific science vessel would be preferable to me.
The Devs did tease that there is an upcoming Krenim ship (a McKrenim Happy Meal toy) when they were asked if the next lockbox would have new Temporal ships. Supposedly, it's also a science ship. But we'll probably know in a few weeks; it's getting close to time for a new Lockbox.
I would have preferred a T6 Temporal ship that was faction-specific though, let the Feds have the Tri-Ring Vulcan ship from the future, and just come up with a KDF and Romulan one.
I would have preferred a T6 Temporal ship that was faction-specific though, let the Feds have the Tri-Ring Vulcan ship from the future, and just come up with a KDF and Romulan one.
They wouldn't even have to come up with a completely brand new ship for the Roms and most especially the KDF. The Roms already have the Ha'nom (underrated Sci Vessel, IMO). The KDF have TONS of unused, already ingame, lower tiered SCI Vessels that have never even seen T5 status.
Hell, they could do a T6 DSD individual, faction 3-pack, or that gargantuan DSD Mega-Bundle again. The DSDs are already there for all factions.
The Copout answers people bring up about Cryptic having to make new ships is irrelevant. The ships are already there.
If that is true, I'd be more then a little surprised that they would use ships from 2010 as an excuse to not make science ships now, especially given the fact they were all low tier stuff aside from the Varanus with that inferiority complex and a lack of cloak. Doubly so to hear the Dysons sold well at all. Using old data from an old scheme doesn't make sense now.
Also, as I recall, the consoles were restricted to only be useable on certain ships at the time, not at all like they are now.
I agree with you 100%. It is kinda baffling. But if i recall right he did say the total sales of kdf science ships were in the "dozens". That is a horrendously low number. They may be having some PTSD clouding their judgement. That's the only thing I can imagine.
I'm listening to old p1s now, still looking for the quote for ya. Plus, its fun. Good show. ^.^
But if i recall right he did say the total sales of kdf science ships were in the "dozens". That is a horrendously low number. They may be having some PTSD clouding their judgement. That's the only thing I can imagine.
I'm listening to old p1s now, still looking for the quote for ya. Plus, its fun. Good show. ^.^
That number for KDF DSD sales is a straight up lie. For a good while, those things were flown in good numbers among the DSD. I saw them all the time in orbit over Qo'nos and in the queues.
The DSD was, and still is the best Science option for the KDF and to a degree, the Roms. The Veranus is very bare bones and equivalent to a Lv40 Fed Freebie Science Vessel.
Science Vessel play in the KDF & Roms is at an all-time low. Namely because the selection was close to non-existent before Profits Rising at T5 and now 8 months after Profits Rising, completely non-existent for the 2 factions at T6. Science play is hopeless in the KDF & Roms. Science play is Dead End Development for those factions.
If that is true, I'd be more then a little surprised that they would use ships from 2010 as an excuse to not make science ships now, especially given the fact they were all low tier stuff aside from the Varanus with that inferiority complex and a lack of cloak. Doubly so to hear the Dysons sold well at all. Using old data from an old scheme doesn't make sense now.
Also, as I recall, the consoles were restricted to only be useable on certain ships at the time, not at all like they are now.
I agree with you 100%. It is kinda baffling. But if i recall right he did say the total sales of kdf science ships were in the "dozens". That is a horrendously low number. They may be having some PTSD clouding their judgement. That's the only thing I can imagine.
I'm listening to old p1s now, still looking for the quote for ya. Plus, its fun. Good show. ^.^
I'm surprised they sold that many considering the Varanus was worse than the worst free T5 Science ship Feds had to offer...
Their excuse is flimsy...they literally tried to sell a piece of garbage and they're surprised it didn't sell well?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Hell, they could do a T6 DSD individual, faction 3-pack, or that gargantuan DSD Mega-Bundle again. The DSDs are already there for all factions.
The Copout answers people bring up about Cryptic having to make new ships is irrelevant. The ships are already there.
Interesting that you brought that up; I had pushed for the existing C-Store DSDs to be either grandfathered to T6 (existing owners can convert theirs to T6 for free if they T5U'd them, while future owners now have to pay a higher fee if buying single T6 DSDs; bundle prices remain as-is or increased to match their now T6 status) or re-released in T6 format. Those would have instantly served as a reasonable T6 Science ship stopgap (moreso now that they actually have Faction skin options for those that hated the Dyson skins) AND would have allowed Cryptic to improve them some and market them again (maybe even allow the fixed proton cannon to be upgraded to Mk XIII and XIV, or at least scale up to equal Mk XIII/XIV, for those that occasionally use it). Intel would have fit them nicely, and all they would have needed is the +1 Boff seat and 5th Starship Mastery Trait (since T5U already gets the scaling HP values, 11 consoles, and Starship Mastery 1-4).
And deviating, the Andorian Escorts could also use a major refresh as well, having been more or less forgotten even prior to DR. As for the Vestas, still hoping that there will be at least 1 new one once a future Science-specific Specialization comes out (even though they are admittedly quite capable as-is). The last we heard on that was there was a new design being worked on by the original creator (which may or may not be for STO, but could possibly be released under whatever licensing agreement they had for the Vestas).
But if i recall right he did say the total sales of kdf science ships were in the "dozens". That is a horrendously low number. They may be having some PTSD clouding their judgement. That's the only thing I can imagine.
I'm listening to old p1s now, still looking for the quote for ya. Plus, its fun. Good show. ^.^
That number for KDF DSD sales is a straight up lie. For a good while, those things were flown in good numbers among the DSD. I saw them all the time in orbit over Qo'nos and in the queues.
I think you misread or misunderstood the comment, chance my looking for the exact quote to end confusion. The megabundle (including kdf) sold very well. The specific kdf science ships sold terrible.
But if i recall right he did say the total sales of kdf science ships were in the "dozens". That is a horrendously low number. They may be having some PTSD clouding their judgement. That's the only thing I can imagine.
I'm listening to old p1s now, still looking for the quote for ya. Plus, its fun. Good show. ^.^
That number for KDF DSD sales is a straight up lie. For a good while, those things were flown in good numbers among the DSD. I saw them all the time in orbit over Qo'nos and in the queues.
I think you misread or misunderstood the comment, chance my looking for the exact quote to end confusion. The megabundle (including kdf) sold very well. The specific kdf science ships sold terrible.
What do you mean by specific? Gorn ships or including the DSD's?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
What do you mean by specific? Gorn ships or including the DSD's?
In p1#208 he said "Now we’re looking at, in general one of the things that really works well for us are what we call the “bundle bundles”. You know three fed, three klingon, three romulan. Those are very expensive for us to build but they are also very popular."
And in another one I haven't found he mentioned the Dyson megabundle being one of their highest ship sale items in the 9-pack version specifically. In context he was comparing it against three packs.
In p1#219 he said
"I don’t have a science vessel planned for the Klingons in the immediate future because nobody buys them. They just don’t sell. I mean yes somebody buys them so that’s hyperbole for me to say that nobody buys them. But the demand is sooo low that we even talked about doing a kickstarter for it. It wouldn’t actually be on kickstarter, we’d make our own kickstarter-like thing on our website or something. But for ships, for oddball ships and by oddball I mean just low demand ships to see “do you really want this?” We need to reach a certain threshold because I am not kidding, whenever we release science type vessels on the Klingon side we sell them in the dozens. So its really bad. The amount of time and energy and money it takes to make them it is a loss for us, they’re just not popular.
And so when we can do them on the cheap you know, we’ll try to do them. Like I can see us taking the Varanus and not changing the model and giving it an existing… if we did a science console on the fed side and science trait they’d just get the same thing so it would basically be free to do. Then we might be able to do it. But I don’t see us putting a lot of effort into it because it really is within the dozens that we sell and it’s just, wow this is not worth it."
So, gorn for sure and possibly the only kdf 3-pack was a loss, but the megabundle itself sold. His interpretation was people will only buy a kdf science ship if they get fed/rom at the same time.
My interpretation remains the gorn ship is pathetic and if they made a kdf Vesta clone it would be the hottest thing until a t6 bop hits.
The Romulan sci ship is just the big bulky Ha'pax with a sci emphasis on it. I find none of the subadmiral ships turn that well. The Gorn Varanus is NOT a Klingon ship, and only reinforces the concept of Klingon stupidity. And I'll simply refer to the Dyson garbage scows as that and not make this post a 5 page litany of why they are.
I agree with the copy/paste idea of the Vesta. Add a few extras for the T6 (boff power slot, console, trait, etc) and give it to the Feds. Make it look like a real Klingon warship and give it to the Klingons. Make it look a warbird and give it to the Romulans.
Dysons... sold? I got mine as part of the freebie offer, and only so my Ferasan KDF Sci captain could have an actual T5 science ship. And I regret it: I probably should have saved my Zen for the carrier. Now, I'm working for the Risan event ship: even without actual Science abilities, it looks like something I'll be happier flying.
--
I'm ME again, having been revanantmorituri during the era between forumpocalypses.
BatRon 11 ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ Millennium Triumphant ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ Emerald Armada
Champions Online closed Beta tester. Star Trek Online closed Beta tester.
The Romulan sci ship is just the big bulky Ha'pax with a sci emphasis on it. I find none of the subadmiral ships turn that well. The Gorn Varanus is NOT a Klingon ship, and only reinforces the concept of Klingon stupidity. And I'll simply refer to the Dyson garbage scows as that and not make this post a 5 page litany of why they are.
I agree with the copy/paste idea of the Vesta. Add a few extras for the T6 (boff power slot, console, trait, etc) and give it to the Feds. Make it look like a real Klingon warship and give it to the Klingons. Make it look a warbird and give it to the Romulans.
This is Cryptic. They would first attempt to repair and improve the faults with the T5 versions, in this case, the DSDs (in a similar manner as they did with the Galaxy and Negh), then market them.
Then maybe later release a much superior platform (Vestas and maybe KDF and Romulan versions) once a new Specialization is out or when they need a new infusion of cash.
Or they could just release a T6 Nebula, T6 Ha'nom, and T6 Gorn Science ship, and call it a day.
Either way, I fully expect that the next KDF Science ship would be anther Gorn one, as they've mostly kept to their race-based designs with the exception of the DSDs (Klingon Raiders/Battlecruisers, Pirate Destroyers/Raptors, Orion Flight-Deck vessels, Gorn Science vessels), and as mentioned in a post above, Gorn is the one they were thinking of doing again, but with stats copy/pasted off some popular Fed ship (of which, there's the Nebula, Intrepid, and Vesta. Maybe Rhode Island, though that one is more likely to see as rare Klingon Raptor/Science ship).
What do you mean by specific? Gorn ships or including the DSD's?
In p1#208 he said "Now we’re looking at, in general one of the things that really works well for us are what we call the “bundle bundles”. You know three fed, three klingon, three romulan. Those are very expensive for us to build but they are also very popular."
And in another one I haven't found he mentioned the Dyson megabundle being one of their highest ship sale items in the 9-pack version specifically. In context he was comparing it against three packs.
In p1#219 he said
"I don’t have a science vessel planned for the Klingons in the immediate future because nobody buys them. They just don’t sell. I mean yes somebody buys them so that’s hyperbole for me to say that nobody buys them. But the demand is sooo low that we even talked about doing a kickstarter for it. It wouldn’t actually be on kickstarter, we’d make our own kickstarter-like thing on our website or something. But for ships, for oddball ships and by oddball I mean just low demand ships to see “do you really want this?” We need to reach a certain threshold because I am not kidding, whenever we release science type vessels on the Klingon side we sell them in the dozens. So its really bad. The amount of time and energy and money it takes to make them it is a loss for us, they’re just not popular.
And so when we can do them on the cheap you know, we’ll try to do them. Like I can see us taking the Varanus and not changing the model and giving it an existing… if we did a science console on the fed side and science trait they’d just get the same thing so it would basically be free to do. Then we might be able to do it. But I don’t see us putting a lot of effort into it because it really is within the dozens that we sell and it’s just, wow this is not worth it."
So, gorn for sure and possibly the only kdf 3-pack was a loss, but the megabundle itself sold. His interpretation was people will only buy a kdf science ship if they get fed/rom at the same time.
My interpretation remains the gorn ship is pathetic and if they made a kdf Vesta clone it would be the hottest thing until a t6 bop hits.
"Whenever we sell.." referring to the singular time they ever released a standalone KDF science ship, that one time in a very different game environment, or am I forgetting another ship? Regardless, there are plenty of reasons the Varanus did not sell well that don't quite exist now, and others that would not apply to a new science ship that isn't chained to the weaknesses of the Varanus.
I sometimes pull my sci ships out for combat (mainly with my sci captains or my engineers) but the biggest "problem" is that even with aux power buffed to CRAZY levels and particle generators at 200%+ the science abilities don't cut through ships as fast as 4 or 5 buffed dual heavy cannons with rapid fire and attack patterns.
I feel like the ONLY way that science ships will become more widely accepted by players is if sci captains (and ONLY sci captains) received some type of significant bonus/buff if they fly science ships.
One way would be to give all sci captains a MASSIVE flat bonus to the damage done by BOff abilities that deal exotic damage if they are flying a science ship. For example, imagine if a tac captain is able to deal 2000 dps with type 1 gravity well but a sci captain on a sci ship would deal 4000 dps with a type 1 gravity well using the same settings/buffs.
Alternatively, science ships could get EXCLUSIVE access to "aux weapons" like the special aux cannons from the Vesta that consume aux power instead of weapons power when firing. This would allow anyone flying a sci ship to min/max their power levels so that their aux power is maxed for BOTH energy weapons and sci abilities.
Alternatively, if the two previous ideas about allowing sci ships to deal more dps is so unbelievably scary to you, how about buffing sci captains in science ships in a more defensive way? Why not give sci ships a default stealth/sensor jamming ability that is "always on" unless the sci ship has been debuffed by an enemy ship's attack? For example, sci ships would be undetectable until they are 5k away and your weapon accuracy is reduced by 90 percent when attacking sci ships ... unless your ship has heavily buffed sensors to counter the sci ships' native stealth/sensor jamming or the sci ship has been debuffed by a specific attack that debuffs stealth/sensor jamming.
I'm not asking for ALL of those things, but if the devs added just ONE of those three ideas I've mentioned above then science captains and sci ships would become MUCH more desirable in the game.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
"Whenever we sell.." referring to the singular time they ever released a standalone KDF science ship, that one time in a very different game environment, or am I forgetting another ship? Regardless, there are plenty of reasons the Varanus did not sell well that don't quite exist now, and others that would not apply to a new science ship that isn't chained to the weaknesses of the Varanus.
In context the only way his comment makes sense is if he means "varavus (and lower tier), plus kdf three pack of Dyson vs fed/rom three pack, AND kdf single sales of Dyson vs fed/rom single sales"
But then, when dealing with individual statements from Individual people logic isn't always as big a factor as we'd like it to be.
Anything a Sci ship can do, my Sci Carrier can do better. I have no doubt that KDF sci ships lose money, they give you the Vo'Quv for free, and the Kar'Fi for a steal.
I would trade any of my Fed sci ships for even the Atrox. In fact the Atrox was my main ride for something crazy like 2 years. First ship I broke 20k in. And while my OCD struggles with flying a non-fed ship, not even a full spread of Tricobalts could blast me out of the Captain's chair of my Recluse.
Trade Sensor Analysis, the Secondary Deflector, and maneuverability for 2 hangar bays and more hull then your average BoP? I'll make that trade all day long.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The DSDs? TBH, I never cared for Destroyer mode. It takes a very precise build to make a DSD function excellently in Destroyer and default Science mode. But the Proton DHC was a waste. There was no Proton Damage TAC Console, no selection of regular Proton Weaponry. In short, Proton weapons have zero synergy with this game, even with each other. Experimental Proton Weapon, DSD Proton DHC... And that's it! No other weapons, no pure Proton TAC Consoles.
.
I use a DSD concentrating at dealing Proton damage and do 25k to 28k DPS in ISA, and still am able to utilize all the sweet science tricks in the book while doing so.
I'm sure for some people it is a "grass is greener" situation, but in my case it most certainly isn't.
I came up as a Fed Sci and flew Sci ships excusively on the leveling trip, and the bought a Sci ship to fly at endgame. I flew her for months and months, struggling every step of the way but not even knowing I was! Sci ships are very hard to play well compared to a FAW beast or even an escort.
Then I made my KDF. I knew carriers existed, but I didn't know they had a sci commander. I assumed they were Tactical ships. I was literally surprized when I finally got to claim my free Vo'Quv and it was basically a science ship! A bit of a letdown at first, as I was trying to go for something different...
Well... It certainly was different! So much better!
Hangar bays are the strongest single slot one can have on a ship. Getting 2 on top of what would otherwise be a fully functioning Sci ship is, to put it mildly, out of whack.
Things are a hair closer now with secondary deflectors and the revamped SA, but you really need a good secondary deflector, and that is likely going to cost you more in upgrades then getting a pair of advanced/elite pets. Even then, my money is on the pets.
Sometimes I pull out my Vesta, thinking today is going to be the day I make her shine. She never lasts a whole day before I'm loading up my Recluse again, cursing the time and resources I wasted trying to fly the baby version of a real Sci powerhouse.
Edit: PvP is a bit of a different beast. The manuverability differences start to actually mean something there. Sci ships in PvP are downright scarry. But... Even I no longer PvP after DR, so the point is kinda moot.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Dont get this either. Klingon players asking for more science ships. Non sense. Seriously. If you want science, play Starfleet. Period. Every faction has their own pros/cons. Cant believe still after 5 years people cant still see this. We should just eliminate romulans and klingons for good. So everybody has access to science ships.. is that a good idea? lol.
If you like sports, and you love football but yo hate tennis, dont pretend to be able to play tennis like football. You cant, period. Why people cant get it lol.
I have a feeling that a certain developer, specifically the lead one, might be painting himself into a corner here.
We all know that, as lead developer, the state of the game usually reflects primarily on what he has and/or has not put into the game. Stuff that he likes is "fast tracked" through, stuff that he don't can be "delayed, too buggy, excuse excuse" no matter how much pressure the EP puts on him.
And "DPS Online", the outgrowth of the previous "Escorts online" with a slight renaming from a ship type to what said ship type was the "then undisputed masters of", is a reflection of said design philosophy...
Now, many of us bought Dyson megabundles (you know, that first one that caused the megabundle system to take off) primarily for it's existence as the "most viable" KDF & RR Science ships. It was a "bonus" that the prices were conveniently set so that if you bought the KDF & RR versions, you got the Feddie versions "for free".
I betya that someone runs around headquarters telling everyone the success of said Dyson ships was because of the Feddie variants and the fact that the destroyer mode makes them extremely science-y destroyers - coincidentally, every KDF and RR "science" ship since is built on the Dyson destroyer-mode "model", not as a regular science ship... And we all know that only Feddies buy ships in bulk...
I will withhold further commentary till a certain "iconic" (from 1.5 movie appearances in a series of 6, but I digress) ship's T6 version is released. If it is as OP as I am starting to suspect, then that will confirm 100% the lead developer's extreme biases and I will consider further actions from there...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Dont get this either. Klingon players asking for more science ships. Non sense. Seriously. If you want science, play Starfleet. Period. Every faction has their own pros/cons. Cant believe still after 5 years people cant still see this. We should just eliminate romulans and klingons for good. So everybody has access to science ships.. is that a good idea? lol.
If you like sports, and you love football but yo hate tennis, dont pretend to be able to play tennis like football. You cant, period. Why people cant get it lol.
That is pretty ignorant. The Feds long ago got hangar bays, a carrier, and cloaking on a number of ships. Where is that faction uniqueness?
I'm not against KDF getting ships. More power to them. Just saying the "Wah my faction doesn't have Sci ships" is not accurate. By my estimation they have the strongest Sci ships. I have to go to lockbox or lobi ships to compete as a Fed.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Dont get this either. Klingon players asking for more science ships. Non sense. Seriously. If you want science, play Starfleet. Period. Every faction has their own pros/cons. Cant believe still after 5 years people cant still see this. We should just eliminate romulans and klingons for good. So everybody has access to science ships.. is that a good idea? lol.
If you like sports, and you love football but yo hate tennis, dont pretend to be able to play tennis like football. You cant, period. Why people cant get it lol.
That is pretty ignorant. The Feds long ago got hangar bays, a carrier, and cloaking on a number of ships. Where is that faction uniqueness?
I'm not against KDF getting ships. More power to them. Just saying the "Wah my faction doesn't have Sci ships" is not accurate. By my estimation they have the strongest Sci ships. I have to go to lockbox or lobi ships to compete as a Fed.
Their carrier is still pretty meh next to the KDF's two. The fact that do seem to have a hanger bay on just about everything is annoying (but their lack of any good pets make me laugh), they have to pay (both cash and power most of the time) in order to use cloaks, and their raider is worst than what the KDF gets for free.
So yes the Feds have some of the KDF tricks and the KDF has science ships but for both they are second rate compared to the other.
Science in space is fine, Science on ground is iffy for me. Science's only real offensive power is exothermic induction. Which sadly is placed right at the end of the skill tree. unlike tacts grenades and engineers mines which are near the start of the skill tree. Meaning you have to sacrifice space skills to take full advantage of that skill. Science really needs more damage dealing kit powers in my option
Dont get this either. Klingon players asking for more science ships. Non sense. Seriously. If you want science, play Starfleet. Period. Every faction has their own pros/cons. Cant believe still after 5 years people cant still see this. We should just eliminate romulans and klingons for good. So everybody has access to science ships.. is that a good idea? lol.
If you like sports, and you love football but yo hate tennis, dont pretend to be able to play tennis like football. You cant, period. Why people cant get it lol.
That is pretty ignorant. The Feds long ago got hangar bays, a carrier, and cloaking on a number of ships. Where is that faction uniqueness?
I think the word you are looking for is reasonable, not ignorant. It is pretty simple. Klingons never focused on science not in the shows not ever. Why they will have several science ships?, it makes no sense. Because it is a faction that science is not one of their strong points, period. You need to live with it. If you think im ignorant for thinking that every faction should stay unique, then you are even more ignorant than me.
Starfleet always had hangars and carrier bays (in this game and in the tv), about cloaking, yes, starfleet always had a couple of ships capable of using a cloak, those ships are CANON and everybody have seen em in the shows. The "Extra" starfleet ships that can use cloak are just another invention of cryptic trying to make again, starfleet the unique faction players will play from here to a near future.
We should give also singularity powers to starfleet, that will be cool eh? lol.
Science in space is fine, Science on ground is iffy for me. Science's only real offensive power is exothermic induction. Which sadly is placed right at the end of the skill tree. unlike tacts grenades and engineers mines which are near the start of the skill tree. Meaning you have to sacrifice space skills to take full advantage of that skill. Science really needs more damage dealing kit powers in my option
Exo may be the best but its not the only one. There's also tachyon harmonic, hyperionic radiation, sonic pulse and the reputation altered nanite sonic pulse and neutronic radiation. Plus the new risian one and winter one that seem to be swaps for exo.
You can have five ground attacks if you really wanted.
What we need are more effective ground attacks. Sonic and tachyon aren't going to kill even a minion, but plasma/photon grenade or the mortar both can. Just as a couple examples the other captain's can run.
Comments
I'm a proud maniac and gorilla. Feds are the first thing people think of when they think Star Trek.
I like Romulans and KDF fine, and protest the neglect of those factions, but Feds will always be my first choice.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I would have preferred a T6 Temporal ship that was faction-specific though, let the Feds have the Tri-Ring Vulcan ship from the future, and just come up with a KDF and Romulan one.
They wouldn't even have to come up with a completely brand new ship for the Roms and most especially the KDF. The Roms already have the Ha'nom (underrated Sci Vessel, IMO). The KDF have TONS of unused, already ingame, lower tiered SCI Vessels that have never even seen T5 status.
Hell, they could do a T6 DSD individual, faction 3-pack, or that gargantuan DSD Mega-Bundle again. The DSDs are already there for all factions.
The Copout answers people bring up about Cryptic having to make new ships is irrelevant. The ships are already there.
I agree with you 100%. It is kinda baffling. But if i recall right he did say the total sales of kdf science ships were in the "dozens". That is a horrendously low number. They may be having some PTSD clouding their judgement. That's the only thing I can imagine.
I'm listening to old p1s now, still looking for the quote for ya. Plus, its fun. Good show. ^.^
That number for KDF DSD sales is a straight up lie. For a good while, those things were flown in good numbers among the DSD. I saw them all the time in orbit over Qo'nos and in the queues.
The DSD was, and still is the best Science option for the KDF and to a degree, the Roms. The Veranus is very bare bones and equivalent to a Lv40 Fed Freebie Science Vessel.
Science Vessel play in the KDF & Roms is at an all-time low. Namely because the selection was close to non-existent before Profits Rising at T5 and now 8 months after Profits Rising, completely non-existent for the 2 factions at T6. Science play is hopeless in the KDF & Roms. Science play is Dead End Development for those factions.
I'm surprised they sold that many considering the Varanus was worse than the worst free T5 Science ship Feds had to offer...
Their excuse is flimsy...they literally tried to sell a piece of garbage and they're surprised it didn't sell well?
And deviating, the Andorian Escorts could also use a major refresh as well, having been more or less forgotten even prior to DR. As for the Vestas, still hoping that there will be at least 1 new one once a future Science-specific Specialization comes out (even though they are admittedly quite capable as-is). The last we heard on that was there was a new design being worked on by the original creator (which may or may not be for STO, but could possibly be released under whatever licensing agreement they had for the Vestas).
I think you misread or misunderstood the comment, chance my looking for the exact quote to end confusion. The megabundle (including kdf) sold very well. The specific kdf science ships sold terrible.
What do you mean by specific? Gorn ships or including the DSD's?
And in another one I haven't found he mentioned the Dyson megabundle being one of their highest ship sale items in the 9-pack version specifically. In context he was comparing it against three packs.
In p1#219 he said
"I don’t have a science vessel planned for the Klingons in the immediate future because nobody buys them. They just don’t sell. I mean yes somebody buys them so that’s hyperbole for me to say that nobody buys them. But the demand is sooo low that we even talked about doing a kickstarter for it. It wouldn’t actually be on kickstarter, we’d make our own kickstarter-like thing on our website or something. But for ships, for oddball ships and by oddball I mean just low demand ships to see “do you really want this?” We need to reach a certain threshold because I am not kidding, whenever we release science type vessels on the Klingon side we sell them in the dozens. So its really bad. The amount of time and energy and money it takes to make them it is a loss for us, they’re just not popular.
And so when we can do them on the cheap you know, we’ll try to do them. Like I can see us taking the Varanus and not changing the model and giving it an existing… if we did a science console on the fed side and science trait they’d just get the same thing so it would basically be free to do. Then we might be able to do it. But I don’t see us putting a lot of effort into it because it really is within the dozens that we sell and it’s just, wow this is not worth it."
So, gorn for sure and possibly the only kdf 3-pack was a loss, but the megabundle itself sold. His interpretation was people will only buy a kdf science ship if they get fed/rom at the same time.
My interpretation remains the gorn ship is pathetic and if they made a kdf Vesta clone it would be the hottest thing until a t6 bop hits.
I agree with the copy/paste idea of the Vesta. Add a few extras for the T6 (boff power slot, console, trait, etc) and give it to the Feds. Make it look like a real Klingon warship and give it to the Klingons. Make it look a warbird and give it to the Romulans.
BatRon 11 ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ Millennium Triumphant ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ Emerald Armada
Then maybe later release a much superior platform (Vestas and maybe KDF and Romulan versions) once a new Specialization is out or when they need a new infusion of cash.
Or they could just release a T6 Nebula, T6 Ha'nom, and T6 Gorn Science ship, and call it a day.
Either way, I fully expect that the next KDF Science ship would be anther Gorn one, as they've mostly kept to their race-based designs with the exception of the DSDs (Klingon Raiders/Battlecruisers, Pirate Destroyers/Raptors, Orion Flight-Deck vessels, Gorn Science vessels), and as mentioned in a post above, Gorn is the one they were thinking of doing again, but with stats copy/pasted off some popular Fed ship (of which, there's the Nebula, Intrepid, and Vesta. Maybe Rhode Island, though that one is more likely to see as rare Klingon Raptor/Science ship).
"Whenever we sell.." referring to the singular time they ever released a standalone KDF science ship, that one time in a very different game environment, or am I forgetting another ship? Regardless, there are plenty of reasons the Varanus did not sell well that don't quite exist now, and others that would not apply to a new science ship that isn't chained to the weaknesses of the Varanus.
I feel like the ONLY way that science ships will become more widely accepted by players is if sci captains (and ONLY sci captains) received some type of significant bonus/buff if they fly science ships.
One way would be to give all sci captains a MASSIVE flat bonus to the damage done by BOff abilities that deal exotic damage if they are flying a science ship. For example, imagine if a tac captain is able to deal 2000 dps with type 1 gravity well but a sci captain on a sci ship would deal 4000 dps with a type 1 gravity well using the same settings/buffs.
Alternatively, science ships could get EXCLUSIVE access to "aux weapons" like the special aux cannons from the Vesta that consume aux power instead of weapons power when firing. This would allow anyone flying a sci ship to min/max their power levels so that their aux power is maxed for BOTH energy weapons and sci abilities.
Alternatively, if the two previous ideas about allowing sci ships to deal more dps is so unbelievably scary to you, how about buffing sci captains in science ships in a more defensive way? Why not give sci ships a default stealth/sensor jamming ability that is "always on" unless the sci ship has been debuffed by an enemy ship's attack? For example, sci ships would be undetectable until they are 5k away and your weapon accuracy is reduced by 90 percent when attacking sci ships ... unless your ship has heavily buffed sensors to counter the sci ships' native stealth/sensor jamming or the sci ship has been debuffed by a specific attack that debuffs stealth/sensor jamming.
I'm not asking for ALL of those things, but if the devs added just ONE of those three ideas I've mentioned above then science captains and sci ships would become MUCH more desirable in the game.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
But then, when dealing with individual statements from Individual people logic isn't always as big a factor as we'd like it to be.
Dedicated Sci ships are a wreck.
Anything a Sci ship can do, my Sci Carrier can do better. I have no doubt that KDF sci ships lose money, they give you the Vo'Quv for free, and the Kar'Fi for a steal.
I would trade any of my Fed sci ships for even the Atrox. In fact the Atrox was my main ride for something crazy like 2 years. First ship I broke 20k in. And while my OCD struggles with flying a non-fed ship, not even a full spread of Tricobalts could blast me out of the Captain's chair of my Recluse.
Trade Sensor Analysis, the Secondary Deflector, and maneuverability for 2 hangar bays and more hull then your average BoP? I'll make that trade all day long.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I use a DSD concentrating at dealing Proton damage and do 25k to 28k DPS in ISA, and still am able to utilize all the sweet science tricks in the book while doing so.
I think that is rather respectable.
KDF wants a science ship that does not suck and looks Klingon and the Feds wants a carrier that look Fed and does not suck.
Something something grass something something greener something something
I came up as a Fed Sci and flew Sci ships excusively on the leveling trip, and the bought a Sci ship to fly at endgame. I flew her for months and months, struggling every step of the way but not even knowing I was! Sci ships are very hard to play well compared to a FAW beast or even an escort.
Then I made my KDF. I knew carriers existed, but I didn't know they had a sci commander. I assumed they were Tactical ships. I was literally surprized when I finally got to claim my free Vo'Quv and it was basically a science ship! A bit of a letdown at first, as I was trying to go for something different...
Well... It certainly was different! So much better!
Hangar bays are the strongest single slot one can have on a ship. Getting 2 on top of what would otherwise be a fully functioning Sci ship is, to put it mildly, out of whack.
Things are a hair closer now with secondary deflectors and the revamped SA, but you really need a good secondary deflector, and that is likely going to cost you more in upgrades then getting a pair of advanced/elite pets. Even then, my money is on the pets.
Sometimes I pull out my Vesta, thinking today is going to be the day I make her shine. She never lasts a whole day before I'm loading up my Recluse again, cursing the time and resources I wasted trying to fly the baby version of a real Sci powerhouse.
Edit: PvP is a bit of a different beast. The manuverability differences start to actually mean something there. Sci ships in PvP are downright scarry. But... Even I no longer PvP after DR, so the point is kinda moot.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
If you like sports, and you love football but yo hate tennis, dont pretend to be able to play tennis like football. You cant, period. Why people cant get it lol.
We all know that, as lead developer, the state of the game usually reflects primarily on what he has and/or has not put into the game. Stuff that he likes is "fast tracked" through, stuff that he don't can be "delayed, too buggy, excuse excuse" no matter how much pressure the EP puts on him.
And "DPS Online", the outgrowth of the previous "Escorts online" with a slight renaming from a ship type to what said ship type was the "then undisputed masters of", is a reflection of said design philosophy...
Now, many of us bought Dyson megabundles (you know, that first one that caused the megabundle system to take off) primarily for it's existence as the "most viable" KDF & RR Science ships. It was a "bonus" that the prices were conveniently set so that if you bought the KDF & RR versions, you got the Feddie versions "for free".
I betya that someone runs around headquarters telling everyone the success of said Dyson ships was because of the Feddie variants and the fact that the destroyer mode makes them extremely science-y destroyers - coincidentally, every KDF and RR "science" ship since is built on the Dyson destroyer-mode "model", not as a regular science ship... And we all know that only Feddies buy ships in bulk...
I will withhold further commentary till a certain "iconic" (from 1.5 movie appearances in a series of 6, but I digress) ship's T6 version is released. If it is as OP as I am starting to suspect, then that will confirm 100% the lead developer's extreme biases and I will consider further actions from there...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
That is pretty ignorant. The Feds long ago got hangar bays, a carrier, and cloaking on a number of ships. Where is that faction uniqueness?
But... KDF has sci ships now. And 2 sci carriers.
I'm not against KDF getting ships. More power to them. Just saying the "Wah my faction doesn't have Sci ships" is not accurate. By my estimation they have the strongest Sci ships. I have to go to lockbox or lobi ships to compete as a Fed.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Their carrier is still pretty meh next to the KDF's two. The fact that do seem to have a hanger bay on just about everything is annoying (but their lack of any good pets make me laugh), they have to pay (both cash and power most of the time) in order to use cloaks, and their raider is worst than what the KDF gets for free.
So yes the Feds have some of the KDF tricks and the KDF has science ships but for both they are second rate compared to the other.
I think the word you are looking for is reasonable, not ignorant. It is pretty simple. Klingons never focused on science not in the shows not ever. Why they will have several science ships?, it makes no sense. Because it is a faction that science is not one of their strong points, period. You need to live with it. If you think im ignorant for thinking that every faction should stay unique, then you are even more ignorant than me.
Starfleet always had hangars and carrier bays (in this game and in the tv), about cloaking, yes, starfleet always had a couple of ships capable of using a cloak, those ships are CANON and everybody have seen em in the shows. The "Extra" starfleet ships that can use cloak are just another invention of cryptic trying to make again, starfleet the unique faction players will play from here to a near future.
We should give also singularity powers to starfleet, that will be cool eh? lol.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Exo may be the best but its not the only one. There's also tachyon harmonic, hyperionic radiation, sonic pulse and the reputation altered nanite sonic pulse and neutronic radiation. Plus the new risian one and winter one that seem to be swaps for exo.
You can have five ground attacks if you really wanted.
What we need are more effective ground attacks. Sonic and tachyon aren't going to kill even a minion, but plasma/photon grenade or the mortar both can. Just as a couple examples the other captain's can run.