Advanced PVE Queue Changes

pwlaughingtrendy · June 2015

We've seen some positive changes come from the Azure Nebula queue updates. When we changed the optionals and how they were blocking player progress, we saw a lot of great feedback. After consideration, we'll be updating the way our Advanced Queues work with some changes that we'll be testing on tribble soon.

You can learn more about the changes here.

~LaughingTrendy

primar13 · June 2015

Can we Please have a List of Affected Queuse? Or will that be in the next round of Patch Notes?

reginamala78 · June 2015

Getting kind of mixed signals reading this. Do Advanced queues still reward the same number of marks as before, or now down to Normal levels of marks but made up for by bigger Optional rewards?

sqwished · June 2015

Whilst I personally think the optionals were fine the way they were, and I dont have a problem dealing with them. I'm hoping this will breathe some life back into the public queue's once more. And I'm aware of the channels dedicated to making premades, but there's more of challenge running with a public group because of the uncertainty of who you'll be teamed with.

My only real concern is that we may see a radical increase in the numbers of inexperienced players in these maps and the normal rage that can occur when an optional fails. But other than that good work guys.

canis36 · June 2015

reginamala78 wrote: »

Getting kind of mixed signals reading this. Do Advanced queues still reward the same number of marks as before, or now down to Normal levels of marks but made up for by bigger Optional rewards?

I thought the DevBlog was quite clear - Advanced queues reward the same amount of marks as Normal queues for completion, but the optionals reward greater numbers of marks on Advanced.

hartzilla · June 2015

Yay, adavanced isn't goping to be a waste of time anymore.

Now how about getting the accolades for completing the STF optional on advanced fixed?

calyx82 · June 2015

hmmm yes this would be good only after a year and a half.... too would be good to have the elite borg queue's back

reginamala78 · June 2015

canis36 wrote: »

I thought the DevBlog was quite clear - Advanced queues reward the same amount of marks as Normal queues for completion, but the optionals reward greater numbers of marks on Advanced.

Which was the impression I got as well until I read the line "The total number of marks that players can earn from a given queue will be, with very few exceptions, either the same as they earned before this update or slightly improved." Hence confusion.

sheldonlcooper · June 2015

I kind of feel that the queues are fast becoming obsolete except, I guess, for private groups - which I do not participate in.

I left Risa briefly to try and finish a doff chain today and did a Borg invasion and a True Way alert that achieved escalation. This was much more rewarding than any queues I've done in a long while.

I advocated strongly for these changes in October, November, and December of 2014. Had they been implemented at that time it would have made a difference. By the time the anniversary came and went and the queues were left to fester still, it was too late. Insufficient numbers will return now as a result of these changes.

I will say that the Iconian advanced queues are absolutely perfect. This has made getting the Iconian marks for my 6 characters very pleasant.

I guess it will be exciting to finally pug borg disconnected advanced successfully. Although I gave up at the end of December I am still at 0.0% success pugging that. As for all the others. I guess I will give a golf clap for finally making the changes, but I (and most others) have moved on to other things in the game for the most part. For myself this is not because of failure or difficulty but because of no longer needing any resources - and just being out for fun now.

calyx82 · June 2015

pwlaughingtrendy wrote: »

We've seen some positive changes come from the Azure Nebula queue updates. When we changed the optionals and how they were blocking player progress, we saw a lot of great feedback. After consideration, we'll be updating the way our Advanced Queues work with some changes that we'll be testing on tribble soon.

You can learn more about the changes here.

~LaughingTrendy

sqwished wrote: »

Whilst I personally think the optionals were fine the way they were, and I dont have a problem dealing with them. I'm hoping this will breathe some life back into the public queue's once more. And I'm aware of the channels dedicated to making premades, but there's more of challenge running with a public group because of the uncertainty of who you'll be teamed with.

My only real concern is that we may see a radical increase in the numbers of inexperienced players in these maps and the normal rage that can occur when an optional fails. But other than that good work guys.

but isn't that the point is to help new players to build up and to team?

dracounguis · June 2015

sheldonlcooper wrote: »

I kind of feel that the queues are fast becoming obsolete

Yup, when you see the list of STFs and most have Average Wait Time of "--" you know no one is doing them. Trying to get Rep Marks for my Delta Recruit and I have to do the same Borg Disconnected for 3 different Marks. So boring.

sqwished · June 2015

calyx82 wrote: »

but isn't that the point is to help new players to build up and to team?

I've got no problem with the helping of new players, but at the end of the day that's why we have the normals. Personally when ever a new queue goes live I always start with a normal run, so I can find my feet in the missions and don't end up bringing the rest of an advanced/elite team down. And from a fleet training point of view we always ran normals, whilst using the tactics required for advanced/elites, which has served us well so far.

ak255 · June 2015

So basically, you're turning everything back to the way it was before the changes made to STFs after Delta Rising. How exactly is realizing the changes made were bad and changing them back progress!? Shouldn't have changed them regardless! Made this whole nonsense completely pointless instead of working on things that actually NEED improvements, like idk, LAG!!!!!!?????

robyvision · June 2015

Its a nerf!:eek::D

generalmoco · June 2015

Yay!... Hopefully it doesn't go bad this time....

Trendy, I is sending you a message throught the STO forums!!

sheldonlcooper · June 2015

dracounguis wrote: »

Yup, when you see the list of STFs and most have Average Wait Time of "--" you know no one is doing them. Trying to get Rep Marks for my Delta Recruit and I have to do the same Borg Disconnected for 3 different Marks. So boring.

If you approach it making use of the daily 55 mark bonus for each you can make a lot of variety without ever visiting the queues. This is basically what I did for my Delta:

Romulan: patrol, 1 mission on new romulus, or Tholian alert

Tholian: Crystaline or Tholian alert

Undine: Battle zone

Dyson: battle zone

Borg: Fleet alert

Delta: Kobali zone or bug hunt or patrol

Then of course you can mix in a queue from time to time. I think the variety makes this more appealing. The game is evolving now I think. And now they are also trying to save the poor pug - which I supoort for continued variety.

iconians · June 2015

So, changes that should have been there from the get-go are finally getting implemented. Better late than never, I suppose.

Still does not address some queued missions that just aren't being run anymore.

Case in point:

Certain queues have failure conditions built into them even on their Normal modes, an example being Mine Trap.

Here's a hint. People aren't running Bug Hunt and Brotherhood of the Sword because they're super awesome queued missions and players love them. They're running them because you are forcing us to play them to get the latest shiny currencies for the latest shiny reputation.

Still, these are positive changes and I hope to see more.

gilion · June 2015

I might not be understanding this but:

"Certain queues have failure conditions built into them even on their Normal modes, an example being Mine Trap. In these cases failure has been built in as a fundamental part of those queues. In these cases the queues rewarded the full array of rewards (elite marks, crafting packs, etc.) that they would if they had been succeeded, however the queue ends early."

You still get the completion rewards if you fail the mission? That seems like something a lot of people would take advantage of and defeats the purpose of playing the missions.

mhall85 · June 2015

sheldonlcooper wrote: »

I kind of feel that the queues are fast becoming obsolete except, I guess, for private groups - which I do not participate in.

I left Risa briefly to try and finish a doff chain today and did a Borg invasion and a True Way alert that achieved escalation. This was much more rewarding than any queues I've done in a long while.

I advocated strongly for these changes in October, November, and December of 2014. Had they been implemented at that time it would have made a difference. By the time the anniversary came and went and the queues were left to fester still, it was too late. Insufficient numbers will return now as a result of these changes.

I will say that the Iconian advanced queues are absolutely perfect. This has made getting the Iconian marks for my 6 characters very pleasant.

I guess it will be exciting to finally pug borg disconnected advanced successfully. Although I gave up at the end of December I am still at 0.0% success pugging that. As for all the others. I guess I will give a golf clap for finally making the changes, but I (and most others) have moved on to other things in the game for the most part. For myself this is not because of failure or difficulty but because of no longer needing any resources - and just being out for fun now.

Pretty much this.

It'll be nice to PUG away a Saturday, again, in Borg queues... if anyone else will be there (I still have a lot of alts that could use Borg gear)... but this really should have been here three months ago. I guess they needed to test these changes (and not jump the gun on rejecting the original Delta Rising changes)... but, yeah, I hope this will resurrect PUGs.

gulberat · June 2015

While unfortunately this has been way too long in coming--and I have been boycotting space STF's this whole time as a result--IF this goes into implementation properly, it would be a big win for the players. I would just recommend adding Elites where there have not been any, so that those who want fail conditions can have them without inconveniencing anybody else.

IF it works, this could get me back in space queues.

I recommend this a) be much more publicized because as it stands, many people have just left the game or will not try queues again because the change took so long and many gave up on hoping, and b) be quality-checked to death, because ANY screwup that results in fewer rewards or improper functioning will destroy the credibility of this announcement and possibly be the last nail in the coffin for some people.

warpangel · June 2015

So...it's a rewards nerf coupled with removing what little challenge was introduced in Delta Rising? And still nothing about the missing Elites?

Do not want.

You should've made the (EDIT) less advanced players play Normal if they want to auto-win just by showing up. Some of us would like to play a game where victory requires skill instead of just going through the motions.

antonine3258 · June 2015

Feels reasonable from the description

gulberat · June 2015

warpangel wrote: »

So...it's a rewards nerf coupled with removing what little challenge was introduced in Delta Rising? And still nothing about the missing Elites?

Do not want.

You should've made the babies play Normal if they want to auto-win just by showing up. Some of us would like to play a game where victory requires skill instead of just going through the motions.

I am all for you getting your missing Elites if it will end these sorts of comments towards the rest of the playerbase. This is a prime example of the damage that has been done by the current scheme.

Seriously--devs, will Elites be added for those who want them? In theory, the code for the current Advanced queues could be copy/pasted as a start, and then other nasty stuff added.

elementalistgaia · June 2015

warpangel wrote: »

So...it's a rewards nerf coupled with removing what little challenge was introduced in Delta Rising? And still nothing about the missing Elites?

Do not want.

You should've made the babies play Normal if they want to auto-win just by showing up. Some of us would like to play a game where victory requires skill instead of just going through the motions.

How's it a nerf?

You still get the same amount of marks, but you have to do the optional to do so, which you had to do anyhow because prior to this not doing so would cause the mission to fail.

thatcursedwolf · June 2015

warpangel wrote: »

So...it's a rewards nerf coupled with removing what little challenge was introduced in Delta Rising? And still nothing about the missing Elites?

Do not want.

You should've made the babies play Normal if they want to auto-win just by showing up. Some of us would like to play a game where victory requires skill instead of just going through the motions.

Pug (actual random queue, not typing "X" in a channel) elites in white mk X gear. Boom, skill required.

sentinel64 · June 2015

I see a major concern in that Advance marks are now more dependent on optionals. I can see more rage quitting because a team loses some or all optionals and the mark grinders just give up halfway through the mission. I hope I am proven wrong.

yakodym · June 2015

It sure would be nice if the player base shifted a bit from the elite Crystalline Catastrophe, so that one could get to play other queues with reasonable waiting times, but unless the demand for the marks outweighs everything else, I don't see it happening. CC only takes about 5 minutes to complete, it always has about 40+ people playing it, so the waiting time is just a few seconds (in prime-time it's usually instaplay) and the material rewards sell for a lot on the exchange. With 4-5 toons you can usually cycle it pretty much seamlessly. Whereas the other queues usually take longer and the rewards for them are much more uncertain (higher risk of fails, because of people not knowing what to do and leaving the team), so of course people will think twice on what to invest their time in...

Well hopefully, these changes are a step in the right direction...

warpangel · June 2015

elementalistgaia wrote: »

How's it a nerf?

You still get the same amount of marks, but you have to do the optional to do so, which you had to do anyhow because prior to this not doing so would cause the mission to fail.

That remains to be seen. The base reward is nerfed. Since no numbers were released as to what the optional bonuses will be, we don't know how much the optional bonuses compensate for it until this goes live.

Also, since not completing the objectives will no longer cause the mission to fail, it will no longer encourage players who can't complete them into playing Normal, even to the admittedly insufficient extent that it was before. This means that in pugs, the average reward will go down either way, as groups fail the now optional objectives more often.

cookiecrook · June 2015

I'm not understand the need for any changes outside of a simple text change. If the player can fail the mission based on not completing an optional, then the problem is, optional should read, objective. It doesn't get any more straight forward than that!

warpangel · June 2015

cookiecrook wrote: »

I'm not understand the need for any changes outside of a simple text change. If the player can fail the mission based on not completing an optional, then the problem is, optional should read, objective. It doesn't get any more straight forward than that!

And ironically, that's exactly what it said. The fail conditions were only ever referred to as "optional" by players complaining about them, never the game itself.

sheldonlcooper · June 2015

warpangel wrote: »

That remains to be seen. The base reward is nerfed. Since no numbers were released as to what the optional bonuses will be, we don't know how much the optional bonuses compensate for it until this goes live.

Also, since not completing the objectives will no longer cause the mission to fail, it will no longer encourage players who can't complete them into playing Normal, even to the admittedly insufficient extent that it was before. This means that in pugs, the average reward will go down either way, as groups fail the now optional objectives more often.

This has not been my experience pugging Iconian advanced missions - especially Gateway. One would expect these new missions that everyone needs for Iconian marks to attract the lowest possible skill spectrum of players. Yet I am gaining 120 to 130 marks each run.

Here's another example. I calculated a few months ago that I've played ISA/ISE around 1000 times (a very low conservative estimate). In all of those runs, most before delta rising, I've never seen a group not try for the optional. And I've only seen something like 10 trolls in all that time.

Advanced PVE Queue Changes

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