I can appreciate you want to defend lore or whatever and keep the game from turning into a circus act but name calling won't get us anywhere.
I disagree with all sorts of folks on all sorts of things. I only resort to name calling for certain people. He happens to be one of them. I can carry on multiple conversations in a thread where I'm cordial to somebody, civil to somebody, and not the least bit polite to somebody else. At some point I get the warning from a mod, and I stop responding to the last person there...continuing on discussions being cordial and civil. Eventually, weeks/months might go by...and then somebody else comes along that just triggers things...and meh. It's a pattern of behavior.
It's put me on Trendy's watch list, and if it pisses her off enough or even askray or bluegeek...there won't be any complaints from me if they decide to send me on a vacation. It's against the forums rules to call him a certified dumbass. I'm not above the rules. We're not supposed to flame trolls...I know that...there won't be any whining that I didn't know and fake promises of not doing it again. It takes a lot to get under my skin, and his history of posts get under my skin. He doesn't disagree with things, he expresses cognitive dissonance in saying stuff that just makes so little sense that I get a throbbing in my skull from having read them. One could say, in a rather twisted and perhaps need some kind of counseling way, that I take his posts as an assault on the few remaining brain cells I have...
I disagree with all sorts of folks on all sorts of things. I only resort to name calling for certain people. He happens to be one of them. I can carry on multiple conversations in a thread where I'm cordial to somebody, civil to somebody, and not the least bit polite to somebody else. At some point I get the warning from a mod, and I stop responding to the last person there...continuing on discussions being cordial and civil. Eventually, weeks/months might go by...and then somebody else comes along that just triggers things...and meh. It's a pattern of behavior.
It's put me on Trendy's watch list, and if it pisses her off enough or even askray or bluegeek...there won't be any complaints from me if they decide to send me on a vacation. It's against the forums rules to call him a certified dumbass. I'm not above the rules. We're not supposed to flame trolls...I know that...there won't be any whining that I didn't know and fake promises of not doing it again. It takes a lot to get under my skin, and his history of posts get under my skin. He doesn't disagree with things, he expresses cognitive dissonance in saying stuff that just makes so little sense that I get a throbbing in my skull from having read them. One could say, in a rather twisted and perhaps need some kind of counseling way, that I take his posts as an assault on the few remaining brain cells I have...
I think too many of the arguments on this forum are fuelled by emotion rather than fact, and instead of debating properly it often ends with name caling, I've done it as well a few times and even got away with it, despite evidence to the contrary I don't always act like the Colourful Ponies you hate so much.
Asking people to be completely civil on the internet is like asking a Ferengi to leave his earning to charity which might work if we were Rom but we don't al have his kindness, we haven't reached the point where we can control ourselves as such unfortunately.
To quote someone's Signature "The highest stage in Social morality is when we learn we ought to control our thoughts" or something like that.
I think too many of the arguments on this forum are fuelled by emotion rather than fact, and instead of debating properly it often ends with name caling, I've done it as well a few times and even got away with it, despite evidence to the contrary I don't always act like the Colourful Ponies you hate so much.
Asking people to be completely civil on the internet is like asking a Ferengi to leave his earning to charity which might work if we were Rom but we don't al have his kindness, we haven't reached the point where we can control ourselves as such unfortunately.
To quote someone's Signature "The highest stage in Social morality is when we learn we ought to control our thoughts" or something like that.
Normally I try to avoid any spillover (like the Pony comment), so my apologies for that.
For me, it's just about the Starfleet, KDF, Romulan ships - go to any of their shipyards...and that's what the ships look like. The non-faction ships...it doesn't matter, cause they're not Starfleet, KDF, Romulan ships - they can't sport faction colors.
Normally I try to avoid any spillover (like the Pony comment), so my apologies for that.
For me, it's just about the Starfleet, KDF, Romulan ships - go to any of their shipyards...and that's what the ships look like. The non-faction ships...it doesn't matter, cause they're not Starfleet, KDF, Romulan ships - they can't sport faction colors.
Wait, do you mean the Design of the ships make them look non faction like or the crazy colours?
Or do you mean lockbox ships?
Wait, do you mean the Design of the ships make them look non faction like or the crazy colours?
Or do you mean lockbox ships?
I like the kitbashes, so folks can make their various faction ships look like different classes of related ships and all the customization that is possible with that.
Kind of like you can take the Concorde, Geneva, Presidio...mix and match your own parts to customize the ship in that way. I think that's awesome...allows one to feel like they may be participating in a test run of a particular class of ships and individualize themselves amongst the masses that might be flying the same actual class of ship.
Even with the various sets that have visuals, those still have a mechanical reason behind the change to the ship's appearance. That's pretty cool, imho - having the appearance change based on various gear that's equipped.
Racing stripes? On faction ships? Nope...that's just /facepalm to me.
Non-faction ships? Lock Box, Lobi, Promo, Summer/Winter ships? Why not? They're non-faction ships. They're already alien ships. They can't even sport the faction themes to begin with, so why restrict them from looking whatever color somebody wants?
I like the kitbashes, so folks can make their various faction ships look like different classes of related ships and all the customization that is possible with that.
Kind of like you can take the Concorde, Geneva, Presidio...mix and match your own parts to customize the ship in that way. I think that's awesome...allows one to feel like they may be participating in a test run of a particular class of ships and individualize themselves amongst the masses that might be flying the same actual class of ship.
Even with the various sets that have visuals, those still have a mechanical reason behind the change to the ship's appearance. That's pretty cool, imho - having the appearance change based on various gear that's equipped.
Racing stripes? On faction ships? Nope...that's just /facepalm to me.
Non-faction ships? Lock Box, Lobi, Promo, Summer/Winter ships? Why not? They're non-faction ships. They're already alien ships. They can't even sport the faction themes to begin with, so why restrict them from looking whatever color somebody wants?
That's basically the line for me.
Well then follow your own personal rules on your own personal ships. I fail to see how other people's personal preferences affect you in any way.
I have a weird feeling it'll turn into a comical mess fast as well. I could see CBS looking at their precious Trek IP with pink BoP's and yellow Galaxy's and rapidly conclude this was not a good idea.
Posts like this make me think that people don't understand what the color palette affects.
There are 3 aspects that affect your ship's colorization in the tailor.
Material Choice
Pattern
Color Palette
Picking a color from a color palette affects the colors on the pattern.
The material choice affects all colors on the ship, including the base color, but it also affects how the pattern colors look. Some patterns seem fairly neutral (most Federation ones at least), others can make the selected colors almost invisible.
Either way, expanding the color palette only affects the looks of the patterns, within the constraints or alterations made by the material choice.
Pink, Yellow, Blue, Red, Green - all these colors are already available, just not in as many variations as the new colors will have.
On top of that, we have set visuals - they sometimes seem to override almost all colors. And quite a few of them can make any ship look freaky enough...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I am obviously assuming CBS approved it in the first place but perhaps haven't grasped the scope of what it will mean ingame and what players could with the option ingame. If they are as anal about things as we've been led to believe, I can't help but wonder how they'll feel if they look in on some of these ships with cheap, outrageous colour schemes once it goes live.
Maybe they won't care but to their credit, they've been tight in certain aspects of the IP.
Too tight in some matters. No T5 Connie because why? It's 2409/2410 and the thing is obsolete? Okay, so what about those lovely holoemitters which we all know exist and can alter the appearance of an entire ship? Witness "Night of the Comet," which can be done in any ship, including a T6 Command Warbird, as long as KI/S31 fits it with a holoemitter to look like a D7 of the era. So what is the excuse, really, for why we can't have the apperance of any ship, including a Constitution class, projected onto any other ship, including a T6 ship? Seems to me that the level of tightness required for objecting to this is akin to constipation (or more accurately, anal retentiveness). My holoemitter idea is a nice laxative for that. It has the virtue of using something we all know exists in the canon Trek universe to project the image of something else we all know exists in the canon Trek universe onto something we all know exists in the STO universe.
And before anyone starts trotting out the "my immersion" red herring about the idea above or this expanded color palette, let me point out that I RP as well. Very little someone outside my RP does is going to affect my sense of immersion, unless they get right in my face with attempts to distract/harass (and some of that doesn't even phase me). I guess my imagination is stronger than that of some other RPers.
Speaking of the colors, I already voiced my opinion on the matter; it's not like I don't fly around in warbirds with violet and green decorative patterns on a gleaming white hull already, and the change coming is nothing except an expansion of the colors already available (fwiw, pink is already possible, so that objection is likewise a red herring). You don't like the colors? Fine. Aesthetics is the most obviously subjective branch of Philosophy. So we have an aesthetic disagreement, and that's not something about which CBS should be dictating one view or another, due to that extremely and obviously subjective nature of the entire question.
How about the hysterics stop until we actually see what the results are, and then make up our minds? Some of you are likely to still be displeased. Some may decide that molehills are not mountains after all.
How about the hysterics stop until we actually see what the results are, and then make up our minds? Some of you are likely to still be displeased. Some may decide that molehills are not mountains after all.
How's about you not impute hysteria where simple concern is voiced!?
Only the (near) future will tell to what degree ppl will abuse the new color system.
It wont be abused.... It will be used for what it is. Why do some people think you can abuse a colour palette?
Because they have a very restrictive view of what looks "good" or "right".
(This annoyed me in WoW, back before they added the Transmute/armor appearance system. Vanilla & Burning Crusade had all sorts of interesting armor styles, but some people complained about "having" to wear "rainbow clown suits" when they wore random bits of armor picked by stats. So the next expansion, they made the armor styles more "unified"..... which meant everyone was stuck wearing all-similar-style armor in iron/rust/fur. Was so much more boring.)
As it is, there were already colorful ships in game.... take a Fed ship, pick the whitest hull material, a large/dramatic pattern, and then grab blue/red/purple/green/yellow for your colors. It's pretty bold. And it's not everywhere, offending eyeballs. Just because we'll now have a larger array of color choices to make, doesn't mean that you'll be surrounded by neon rainbows everywhere you go. (Ok, sure, the first week the "try new features!" crew will experiment with it, but it should die back down after that.)
Me, I've always used colors on my ships. Many of my Klingon & Romulan ships have blue, red, or purple on them. My Fed ships tend towards blue/green, blue/purple, or red. It depends on the character, of course. My cliche Orion Dancing Girl (with matching cliche boffs) has been flying a series of ships named Danceteria... they're as purple & pink as I can make them, with those dull KDF hull materials. And Elsa's U.S.S. Arendelle is blue/light blue/white, of course. :P
edit: which reminds me..... it always seems like lots of people don't bother with customizing ships in the first place. Back when system space was more crowded, it always seemed like most of the ships around me were in default shapes & colors. Given that, and the new & empty space maps, the odds of someone being surrounded by ships that offend their sensibilities is even smaller.
How's about you not impute hysteria where simple concern is voiced!?
Only the (near) future will tell to what degree ppl will abuse the new color system.
Indeed. There is a lot of "calm down and stop being so OTT!!" from opposing factions when they are the ones being more hysterical in response. All we can do it wait and see how this looks. I just hope it doesn't make the game look ridiculous. The Trek IP is pretty straight laced and serious after all.
The Trek IP is pretty straight laced and serious after all.
*blink*
Eh?
(/ponders Theiss outfits, the planet of gangsters, Q comic relief episodes, Ferengi comic relief episodes, Tom Paris's holodeck episodes, Barclay comic relief episodes, and vast amounts of other silliness over the years.....)
(/ponders Theiss outfits, the planet of gangsters, Q comic relief episodes, Ferengi comic relief episodes, Tom Paris's holodeck episodes, Barclay comic relief episodes, and vast amounts of other silliness over the years.....)
...really? People see Trek that way?
There's a difference between working some comic elements into a work and the work being comical. Do you picture Star Wars like Spaceballs? Star Wars had its lighthearted moments...doesn't make it Spaceballs.
...It's seriously that simple. Starfleet, KDF, and Rom Republic ships wouldn't sport those. They're part of organized military groups. The group that would likely have the most customization would be the KDF because of the various houses. Now, this isn't talking about kit bashes - cause that gets into potential different classes of ships, testing various things, and the like. All sorts of nifty customization to be found there and more would be welcome.
The ship colors though...they're vessels of a specific organized body. Fleet Symbols replacing Faction Symbols? Yep, those kind of things would be something one might expect to see. Hell, even additional small images for things to be personalized...something one would expect to see...
With respect, Virusdancer, that seems an odd place to draw the line.
You can equip disruptors on Federation ships. As far as cannon/military uniformity/etc, that seems a much larger departure from standard/cannon than ship color. STO is Star Trek fanfiction. Myself, I'm just along for the ride.
As far as garish ship colors, you have my sympathy. My friend would not play Klingons until the LCARs HUD revamp. The overly-red HUD colors gave him headaches.
With respect, Virusdancer, that seems an odd place to draw the line.
You can equip disruptors on Federation ships. As far as cannon/military uniformity/etc, that seems a much larger departure from standard/cannon than ship color. STO is Star Trek fanfiction. Myself, I'm just along for the ride.
As far as garish ship colors, you have my sympathy. My friend would not play Klingons until the LCARs HUD revamp. The overly-red HUD colors gave him headaches.
Oh god, the old HUD...
Some suspect that the real reason for the small number of KDF players is that many of them were crippled and killed by eye cancer in the first years of STO.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
There's a difference between working some comic elements into a work and the work being comical. Do you picture Star Wars like Spaceballs? Star Wars had its lighthearted moments...doesn't make it Spaceballs.
...there's a bit of a continuum between "straightlaced & serious" and "Spaceballs".
With respect, Virusdancer, that seems an odd place to draw the line.
You can equip disruptors on Federation ships. As far as cannon/military uniformity/etc, that seems a much larger departure from standard/cannon than ship color. STO is Star Trek fanfiction. Myself, I'm just along for the ride.
As far as garish ship colors, you have my sympathy. My friend would not play Klingons until the LCARs HUD revamp. The overly-red HUD colors gave him headaches.
It's the same line drawn by the shows. They used non-Starfleet equipment from time to time. Did they sport racing stripes though? As was already mentioned, Paris and the Delta Flyer? Heck, how about the Dauntless...what did it look like...color-wise? A Starfleet vessel. Did it look like a Starfleet vessel? Nope...but color-wise? Yep.
Hit up Enterprise and the Mirror Universe, eh? Oh, those ships...have a different color theme...they're not Starfleet!
It's the same line drawn by the shows. They used non-Starfleet equipment from time to time. Did they sport racing stripes though? As was already mentioned, Paris and the Delta Flyer? Heck, how about the Dauntless...what did it look like...color-wise? A Starfleet vessel. Did it look like a Starfleet vessel? Nope...but color-wise? Yep.
Of course, that line was already crossed years ago. The ships already can have racing stripes, in nice bold blue/red/green/etc.
Eh, whatever. It's 99% not going to be as big a deal as people are making, unless they also change how the underlying material colors work. Most colors get washed out on everything other than Federation Bright White. And as I mentioned already, judging by what I've seen passing by me in sector space over the years, most people don't seem to customize ships in the first place. /shrug
Hit up Enterprise and the Mirror Universe, eh? Oh, those ships...have a different color theme...they're not Starfleet!
Simple as that.
And now with the expanded colour scheme we got proper yellows and are able to do that. People may not want their ships to be SF they may want Terran ships, or something of their own devising that requires pink stripes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It's the same line drawn by the shows. They used non-Starfleet equipment from time to time. Did they sport racing stripes though? As was already mentioned, Paris and the Delta Flyer? Heck, how about the Dauntless...what did it look like...color-wise? A Starfleet vessel. Did it look like a Starfleet vessel? Nope...but color-wise? Yep.
Hit up Enterprise and the Mirror Universe, eh? Oh, those ships...have a different color theme...they're not Starfleet!
Simple as that.
I understand and support your stance myself. Yet truth is STO is more of a Star Trek themed comic book than anything else. When I see other players captain on grund maps, at least half of the characters I see are either pale pink bleahed orion women or male characters with their body height slider all up, shoulder width and bulk all up, arm bulk all up - basically inverted triangle bodyshapes and they wear colourful attire with large, goofy sunglasses. Look at all the effects that are spammed in space, look at the design - colourful, seizure inducing stroboscope effects are encouraged and pushed by Cryptic, now we will have large hand emojis floating through space.
A new development? No: Five years ago we wore Mass Effect rip-off body armour with miniguns, threw plasma grenades, beamed down phaser turrets and shot unique spacebound phenomena as weapons at your enemies. At no point had STO visuals that one could even dare to dub as "subtle". This is champions online in space - with a Star Trek DLC/skin pack purchase
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Some suspect that the real reason for the small number of KDF players is that many of them were crippled and killed by eye cancer in the first years of STO.
Heh, I didn't like the old Fed one either. Since it was made available, all of my characters run the Orion theme.
And now with the expanded colour scheme we got proper yellows and are able to do that. People may not want their ships to be SF they may want Terran ships, or something of their own devising that requires pink stripes.
And some people want to fly a Basestar and launch Cylon fighters.
And some people want to pilot Veritech Fighters.
And some people want to fly the Millenium Falcon.
And...oh wait...it's Star Trek.
I understand and support your stance myself. Yet truth is STO is more of a Star Trek themed comic book than anything else. When I see other players captain on grund maps, at least half of the characters I see are either pale pink bleahed orion women or male characters with their body height slider all up, shoulder width and bulk all up, arm bulk all up - basically inverted triangle bodyshapes and they wear colourful attire with large, goofy sunglasses. Look at all the effects that are spammed in space, look at the design - colourful, seizure inducing stroboscope effects are encouraged and pushed by Cryptic, now we will have large hand emojis floating through space.
A new development? No: Five years ago we wore Mass Effect rip-off body armour with miniguns, threw plasma grenades, beamed down phaser turrets and shot unique spacebound phenomena as weapons at your enemies. At no point had STO visuals that one could even dare to dub as "subtle". This is champions online in space - with a Star Trek DLC/skin pack purchase
Heh, it does play into part of my avoiding and dislike of Ground. It does come off more like Futurama than Star Trek. Or even the number of Captain Johnny Bravo that are running around...meh.
edit: It's all the little things that keep adding up and adding up.
And some people want to fly a Basestar and launch Cylon fighters.
And some people want to pilot Veritech Fighters.
And some people want to fly the Millenium Falcon.
And...oh wait...it's Star Trek.
Well they can play APU cruisers and launch Scorpions
Never heard of 'em.
Why not, it's in First Contact.
And so's the Terren Empire, you think it's a stretch that there may be races out there with pink striped ships? No more so than yellow.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
And so's the Terren Empire, you think it's a stretch that there may be races out there with pink striped ships? No more so than yellow.
Not races, no, but you do bring up the logical possibility of their being other alternate universes...and...with those other alternate universes, there could be a Starfleet or similar such faction (Starfleet, Terran Empire, etc) where they use different color schemes. As such, it would be possible to have captured ships in use functioning as auxiliary vessels in the same manner as the Mirror Universe vessels. That I can dig. It's got some logic going for it. It's not the typical I want pretty racing stripes and TRIBBLE Star Trek reasoning that folks have been offering.
Not races, no, but you do bring up the logical possibility of their being other alternate universes...and...with those other alternate universes, there could be a Starfleet or similar such faction (Starfleet, Terran Empire, etc) where they use different color schemes. As such, it would be possible to have captured ships in use functioning as auxiliary vessels in the same manner as the Mirror Universe vessels. That I can dig. It's got some logic going for it. It's not the typical I want pretty racing stripes and TRIBBLE Star Trek reasoning that folks have been offering.
I still be sticking to the black and grey of the Sovereign or blue and yellow of the Defiant though, I can't stand the bright colours or most of the patterns (except Andromeda). It's just nice that other people might get to play with things.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It's the same line drawn by the shows. They used non-Starfleet equipment from time to time. Did they sport racing stripes though? As was already mentioned, Paris and the Delta Flyer? Heck, how about the Dauntless...what did it look like...color-wise? A Starfleet vessel. Did it look like a Starfleet vessel? Nope...but color-wise? Yep.
Hit up Enterprise and the Mirror Universe, eh? Oh, those ships...have a different color theme...they're not Starfleet!
Simple as that.
In your example the key word is "from time to time". There are examples of that in STO too. Off the top of my head, you can fly a BoP as a Fed, you can pilot a dyson science destroyer (with cheaty BOFF powers), you even get a dis-assimilation beam that un-assimilates borg because space magic.
Ship equipment? That is as permanent as a paint job. You can run disruptors on your Defiant for as long as you like. Just as you can paint it Lime Green (though I think Lime Green was already available?) for as long as you like.
I'm not arguing your personal preference. Everyone has different tastes. I just think it is odd to draw the line at a paint job vs, well, actual Trek cannon. Especially in a game that is Star Trek fanfiction. Very creative fanfiction, but still. Fanfiction.
Comments
He would seem to disagree... I'm starting to wonder who the real dumbass is. :rolleyes:
I disagree with all sorts of folks on all sorts of things. I only resort to name calling for certain people. He happens to be one of them. I can carry on multiple conversations in a thread where I'm cordial to somebody, civil to somebody, and not the least bit polite to somebody else. At some point I get the warning from a mod, and I stop responding to the last person there...continuing on discussions being cordial and civil. Eventually, weeks/months might go by...and then somebody else comes along that just triggers things...and meh. It's a pattern of behavior.
It's put me on Trendy's watch list, and if it pisses her off enough or even askray or bluegeek...there won't be any complaints from me if they decide to send me on a vacation. It's against the forums rules to call him a certified dumbass. I'm not above the rules. We're not supposed to flame trolls...I know that...there won't be any whining that I didn't know and fake promises of not doing it again. It takes a lot to get under my skin, and his history of posts get under my skin. He doesn't disagree with things, he expresses cognitive dissonance in saying stuff that just makes so little sense that I get a throbbing in my skull from having read them. One could say, in a rather twisted and perhaps need some kind of counseling way, that I take his posts as an assault on the few remaining brain cells I have...
I think too many of the arguments on this forum are fuelled by emotion rather than fact, and instead of debating properly it often ends with name caling, I've done it as well a few times and even got away with it, despite evidence to the contrary I don't always act like the Colourful Ponies you hate so much.
Asking people to be completely civil on the internet is like asking a Ferengi to leave his earning to charity which might work if we were Rom but we don't al have his kindness, we haven't reached the point where we can control ourselves as such unfortunately.
To quote someone's Signature "The highest stage in Social morality is when we learn we ought to control our thoughts" or something like that.
Normally I try to avoid any spillover (like the Pony comment), so my apologies for that.
For me, it's just about the Starfleet, KDF, Romulan ships - go to any of their shipyards...and that's what the ships look like. The non-faction ships...it doesn't matter, cause they're not Starfleet, KDF, Romulan ships - they can't sport faction colors.
Wait, do you mean the Design of the ships make them look non faction like or the crazy colours?
Or do you mean lockbox ships?
I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 22. :P
I should tell people to stop arguing but I.
Know exactly where it leads but I.
Watch us go round and round each time.
I like the kitbashes, so folks can make their various faction ships look like different classes of related ships and all the customization that is possible with that.
Kind of like you can take the Concorde, Geneva, Presidio...mix and match your own parts to customize the ship in that way. I think that's awesome...allows one to feel like they may be participating in a test run of a particular class of ships and individualize themselves amongst the masses that might be flying the same actual class of ship.
Even with the various sets that have visuals, those still have a mechanical reason behind the change to the ship's appearance. That's pretty cool, imho - having the appearance change based on various gear that's equipped.
Racing stripes? On faction ships? Nope...that's just /facepalm to me.
Non-faction ships? Lock Box, Lobi, Promo, Summer/Winter ships? Why not? They're non-faction ships. They're already alien ships. They can't even sport the faction themes to begin with, so why restrict them from looking whatever color somebody wants?
That's basically the line for me.
Well then follow your own personal rules on your own personal ships. I fail to see how other people's personal preferences affect you in any way.
Sure, and that flasks contains only water... :P
Posts like this make me think that people don't understand what the color palette affects.
There are 3 aspects that affect your ship's colorization in the tailor.
- Material Choice
- Pattern
- Color Palette
Picking a color from a color palette affects the colors on the pattern.The material choice affects all colors on the ship, including the base color, but it also affects how the pattern colors look. Some patterns seem fairly neutral (most Federation ones at least), others can make the selected colors almost invisible.
Either way, expanding the color palette only affects the looks of the patterns, within the constraints or alterations made by the material choice.
Pink, Yellow, Blue, Red, Green - all these colors are already available, just not in as many variations as the new colors will have.
On top of that, we have set visuals - they sometimes seem to override almost all colors. And quite a few of them can make any ship look freaky enough...
Too tight in some matters. No T5 Connie because why? It's 2409/2410 and the thing is obsolete? Okay, so what about those lovely holoemitters which we all know exist and can alter the appearance of an entire ship? Witness "Night of the Comet," which can be done in any ship, including a T6 Command Warbird, as long as KI/S31 fits it with a holoemitter to look like a D7 of the era. So what is the excuse, really, for why we can't have the apperance of any ship, including a Constitution class, projected onto any other ship, including a T6 ship? Seems to me that the level of tightness required for objecting to this is akin to constipation (or more accurately, anal retentiveness). My holoemitter idea is a nice laxative for that. It has the virtue of using something we all know exists in the canon Trek universe to project the image of something else we all know exists in the canon Trek universe onto something we all know exists in the STO universe.
And before anyone starts trotting out the "my immersion" red herring about the idea above or this expanded color palette, let me point out that I RP as well. Very little someone outside my RP does is going to affect my sense of immersion, unless they get right in my face with attempts to distract/harass (and some of that doesn't even phase me). I guess my imagination is stronger than that of some other RPers.
Speaking of the colors, I already voiced my opinion on the matter; it's not like I don't fly around in warbirds with violet and green decorative patterns on a gleaming white hull already, and the change coming is nothing except an expansion of the colors already available (fwiw, pink is already possible, so that objection is likewise a red herring). You don't like the colors? Fine. Aesthetics is the most obviously subjective branch of Philosophy. So we have an aesthetic disagreement, and that's not something about which CBS should be dictating one view or another, due to that extremely and obviously subjective nature of the entire question.
How about the hysterics stop until we actually see what the results are, and then make up our minds? Some of you are likely to still be displeased. Some may decide that molehills are not mountains after all.
How's about you not impute hysteria where simple concern is voiced!?
Only the (near) future will tell to what degree ppl will abuse the new color system.
It wont be abused.... It will be used for what it is. Why do some people think you can abuse a colour palette?
Because they have a very restrictive view of what looks "good" or "right".
(This annoyed me in WoW, back before they added the Transmute/armor appearance system. Vanilla & Burning Crusade had all sorts of interesting armor styles, but some people complained about "having" to wear "rainbow clown suits" when they wore random bits of armor picked by stats. So the next expansion, they made the armor styles more "unified"..... which meant everyone was stuck wearing all-similar-style armor in iron/rust/fur. Was so much more boring.)
As it is, there were already colorful ships in game.... take a Fed ship, pick the whitest hull material, a large/dramatic pattern, and then grab blue/red/purple/green/yellow for your colors. It's pretty bold. And it's not everywhere, offending eyeballs. Just because we'll now have a larger array of color choices to make, doesn't mean that you'll be surrounded by neon rainbows everywhere you go. (Ok, sure, the first week the "try new features!" crew will experiment with it, but it should die back down after that.)
Me, I've always used colors on my ships. Many of my Klingon & Romulan ships have blue, red, or purple on them. My Fed ships tend towards blue/green, blue/purple, or red. It depends on the character, of course. My cliche Orion Dancing Girl (with matching cliche boffs) has been flying a series of ships named Danceteria... they're as purple & pink as I can make them, with those dull KDF hull materials. And Elsa's U.S.S. Arendelle is blue/light blue/white, of course. :P
edit: which reminds me..... it always seems like lots of people don't bother with customizing ships in the first place. Back when system space was more crowded, it always seemed like most of the ships around me were in default shapes & colors. Given that, and the new & empty space maps, the odds of someone being surrounded by ships that offend their sensibilities is even smaller.
Indeed. There is a lot of "calm down and stop being so OTT!!" from opposing factions when they are the ones being more hysterical in response. All we can do it wait and see how this looks. I just hope it doesn't make the game look ridiculous. The Trek IP is pretty straight laced and serious after all.
*blink*
Eh?
(/ponders Theiss outfits, the planet of gangsters, Q comic relief episodes, Ferengi comic relief episodes, Tom Paris's holodeck episodes, Barclay comic relief episodes, and vast amounts of other silliness over the years.....)
...really? People see Trek that way?
There's a difference between working some comic elements into a work and the work being comical. Do you picture Star Wars like Spaceballs? Star Wars had its lighthearted moments...doesn't make it Spaceballs.
With respect, Virusdancer, that seems an odd place to draw the line.
You can equip disruptors on Federation ships. As far as cannon/military uniformity/etc, that seems a much larger departure from standard/cannon than ship color. STO is Star Trek fanfiction. Myself, I'm just along for the ride.
As far as garish ship colors, you have my sympathy. My friend would not play Klingons until the LCARs HUD revamp. The overly-red HUD colors gave him headaches.
Some suspect that the real reason for the small number of KDF players is that many of them were crippled and killed by eye cancer in the first years of STO.
...there's a bit of a continuum between "straightlaced & serious" and "Spaceballs".
It's the same line drawn by the shows. They used non-Starfleet equipment from time to time. Did they sport racing stripes though? As was already mentioned, Paris and the Delta Flyer? Heck, how about the Dauntless...what did it look like...color-wise? A Starfleet vessel. Did it look like a Starfleet vessel? Nope...but color-wise? Yep.
Hit up Enterprise and the Mirror Universe, eh? Oh, those ships...have a different color theme...they're not Starfleet!
Simple as that.
Of course, that line was already crossed years ago. The ships already can have racing stripes, in nice bold blue/red/green/etc.
Eh, whatever. It's 99% not going to be as big a deal as people are making, unless they also change how the underlying material colors work. Most colors get washed out on everything other than Federation Bright White. And as I mentioned already, judging by what I've seen passing by me in sector space over the years, most people don't seem to customize ships in the first place. /shrug
And now with the expanded colour scheme we got proper yellows and are able to do that. People may not want their ships to be SF they may want Terran ships, or something of their own devising that requires pink stripes.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I understand and support your stance myself. Yet truth is STO is more of a Star Trek themed comic book than anything else. When I see other players captain on grund maps, at least half of the characters I see are either pale pink bleahed orion women or male characters with their body height slider all up, shoulder width and bulk all up, arm bulk all up - basically inverted triangle bodyshapes and they wear colourful attire with large, goofy sunglasses. Look at all the effects that are spammed in space, look at the design - colourful, seizure inducing stroboscope effects are encouraged and pushed by Cryptic, now we will have large hand emojis floating through space.
A new development? No: Five years ago we wore Mass Effect rip-off body armour with miniguns, threw plasma grenades, beamed down phaser turrets and shot unique spacebound phenomena as weapons at your enemies. At no point had STO visuals that one could even dare to dub as "subtle". This is champions online in space - with a Star Trek DLC/skin pack purchase
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Heh, I didn't like the old Fed one either. Since it was made available, all of my characters run the Orion theme.
But they don't....
The current palette: http://i.imgur.com/4nyf3o8.png
The coming palette: http://i.imgur.com/5zeM24p.png
...which raises the question of do folks even play the game?
And some people want to fly a Basestar and launch Cylon fighters.
And some people want to pilot Veritech Fighters.
And some people want to fly the Millenium Falcon.
And...oh wait...it's Star Trek.
Heh, it does play into part of my avoiding and dislike of Ground. It does come off more like Futurama than Star Trek. Or even the number of Captain Johnny Bravo that are running around...meh.
edit: It's all the little things that keep adding up and adding up.
Well they can play APU cruisers and launch Scorpions
Never heard of 'em.
Why not, it's in First Contact.
And so's the Terren Empire, you think it's a stretch that there may be races out there with pink striped ships? No more so than yellow.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Not races, no, but you do bring up the logical possibility of their being other alternate universes...and...with those other alternate universes, there could be a Starfleet or similar such faction (Starfleet, Terran Empire, etc) where they use different color schemes. As such, it would be possible to have captured ships in use functioning as auxiliary vessels in the same manner as the Mirror Universe vessels. That I can dig. It's got some logic going for it. It's not the typical I want pretty racing stripes and TRIBBLE Star Trek reasoning that folks have been offering.
I still be sticking to the black and grey of the Sovereign or blue and yellow of the Defiant though, I can't stand the bright colours or most of the patterns (except Andromeda). It's just nice that other people might get to play with things.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
In your example the key word is "from time to time". There are examples of that in STO too. Off the top of my head, you can fly a BoP as a Fed, you can pilot a dyson science destroyer (with cheaty BOFF powers), you even get a dis-assimilation beam that un-assimilates borg because space magic.
Ship equipment? That is as permanent as a paint job. You can run disruptors on your Defiant for as long as you like. Just as you can paint it Lime Green (though I think Lime Green was already available?) for as long as you like.
I'm not arguing your personal preference. Everyone has different tastes. I just think it is odd to draw the line at a paint job vs, well, actual Trek cannon. Especially in a game that is Star Trek fanfiction. Very creative fanfiction, but still. Fanfiction.