That hasn't been my experience. I did a torp boat once with a rom sci in a T'varo, and he did alright. Not king of the pack in terms of DPS but no slouch either.
I do think though that hull should offer some kind of resistance against energy weapons, or shields should have bonus resistance to both types but work better against torps.
Also forgot to point out. if you're going to go torp heavy, use transphasic. Ignores 40% of shields, comes in handy.
I actually did my Sci main for craps and giggles with my sci raptor. Doesn't do too badly. Granted I have 1 Disruptor turret and the the radiant dual disruptors for the set bonus on the ship and gives it a little bit of sheild degridation, I have also the radiant transphasic torp, 2 other transphasic torps and 2 torp clusters.
Good spike damage along with beating the holy hell out of targets with GW2 and TR1.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Torp boats are nice to try out for the challenge that their disadvantages bring. Since you are regular Fed i dont think there are any ships available to you yet that has Enhanced Battle Cloak (EBC). On my Tvaro and Faeht stealth bombers i have lots and lots of fun. But since you dont have that option as a Fed i wont go into it.
My other torp boats are a Karfi and a Vesta. I like to run Science Captains on all my torp boats for photonic fleet and sensor scan. I use Science Ships because it allows me to run GW which adds to all the damage going out. The Tvaro and Faeht arent Sci ships but they can still use Grav Well 1 which is better than no Grav Well at all. Grav Well is nice to have because it adds some damage of its own, but it also clumps everything up so that you can daisy-chain warp core explosions. If you have plasma launchers or the gravimetric launchers then Grav Well is nice for those too cause it helps spread plasma fires or with a times torp spread-grav launcher you can stack all the kinetic damage rifts in the same place. So you have plasma fires, kinetic rifts, grav wells and then warp core breaches all doing damage in this small area. If you are having to deal with a target 1v1 like a cube then you can pop photonic fleet and nimbus pirates for a little extra help.
For my non-stealth bomber torp boats i like to stand off at a distance and pew pew. I like to use Carriers as well because the pets add a tiny bit of dps and they can sometimes serve as a minor distraction. As far as weapons go since i do mostly old borg content, CE, AN and the old Fleet instances i can get away with the Romulan Hyper-Plasma launcher. You can even set your ship and doffs up so that you are firing a continous stream of Hyper-Plasma torps. But if you like to do other content like Voth, Undine instances or BZs then there will be lots of enemy AOE going around so it may eat most of your targettable plasma projectiles. So for those you may want to use launchers that have non-targetable projectiles AND that also launch non-targetable projectiles when you use torp high yield/spread.
Also forgot to point out. if you're going to go torp heavy, use transphasic. Ignores 40% of shields, comes in handy.
I actually did my Sci main for craps and giggles with my sci raptor. Doesn't do too badly. Granted I have 1 Disruptor turret and the the radiant dual disruptors for the set bonus on the ship and gives it a little bit of sheild degridation, I have also the radiant transphasic torp, 2 other transphasic torps and 2 torp clusters.
Good spike damage along with beating the holy hell out of targets with GW2 and TR1.
IMHO, crafted transphasics are nice when you're leveling, but once you hit Lvl 50+ content, they lose their potency very quickly. Their damage is quite low compared to the beefed-up hullHP of DR scaling.
As an aside, all of your cluster torpedoes are actually mines. I'd petition for a name change, but I'd rather focus on dealing with the more urgent situations like bugs and viability of powers for kinetics. (Ex: WHY should the Energy torpedoes benefit 100% from Concentrate Firepower, but other KINETICS do not?)
IMHO, crafted transphasics are nice when you're leveling, but once you hit Lvl 50+ content, they lose their potency very quickly. Their damage is quite low compared to the beefed-up hullHP of DR scaling.
As an aside, all of your cluster torpedoes are actually mines. I'd petition for a name change, but I'd rather focus on dealing with the more urgent situations like bugs and viability of powers for kinetics. (Ex: WHY should the Energy torpedoes benefit 100% from Concentrate Firepower, but other KINETICS do not?)
Might be lower, but you're always assured atleast 1500 to 2000 dmg even when shields are up. And the MK XII borg transphasic is particularly nasty. I even use the mk XI rapid reload transphasic and it actually loads as fast as quantums and such.
If I had the energy and stuff to upgrade it, I would. Don't discount transphasics, they can do a fair share of damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Yeah, there are no Fed ships with EBC. The only real "specialty" torpedo boat possible is with the Intrepid Retrofit or Pathfinder (using the Retrofit's console ability, "Ablative Armor"; the console may only be equipped on the Intrepid Retro or the Pathfinder). Otherwise... you can put together any ship as a torpedo build but none of them have any inherent advantages over the others, beyond the usual things like BOFFs and consoles.
I'm not following your line of reasoning. Could you elaborate, please?
I'm not following your line of reasoning. Could you elaborate, please?
I think he means that the ablative armour console has a particular synergy with torpedo and mine weapons, whereas every other ship is more or less the same in terms of using torpedoes. The ablative armour console means you can only fire torpedoes when it's on, so it's similar to EBC for purposes of torp boat builds. Unfortunately the comparison falls short because the ablative armour has a short duration, while EBC can be on indefinitely or unless you're pulled out of cloak somehow.
I wish they'd rework the console so it was always on until enemy fire burns through it or until you deactivate it, because that would fit more in line with how it was shown to work in 'Endgame'.
I think he means that the ablative armour console has a particular synergy with torpedo and mine weapons, whereas every other ship is more or less the same in terms of using torpedoes. The ablative armour console means you can only fire torpedoes when it's on, so it's similar to EBC for purposes of torp boat builds. Unfortunately the comparison falls short because the ablative armour has a short duration, while EBC can be on indefinitely or unless you're pulled out of cloak somehow.
I wish they'd rework the console so it was always on until enemy fire burns through it or until you deactivate it, because that would fit more in line with how it was shown to work in 'Endgame'.
I think he means that the ablative armour console has a particular synergy with torpedo and mine weapons, whereas every other ship is more or less the same in terms of using torpedoes. The ablative armour console means you can only fire torpedoes when it's on, so it's similar to EBC for purposes of torp boat builds. Unfortunately the comparison falls short because the ablative armour has a short duration, while EBC can be on indefinitely or unless you're pulled out of cloak somehow.
I wish they'd rework the console so it was always on until enemy fire burns through it or until you deactivate it, because that would fit more in line with how it was shown to work in 'Endgame'.
I'm not a fan of that idea, actually. EBC can be disabled by a quite a few methods, and is only on squishy ships.
Ablative armor makes your hull resist between 90 and 97.5%.
That's... a pretty tough nut to crack. I mean, you're still susceptible to disables I suppose, but any aoe disables would have hit you in EBC.
Making it a toggle would basically lead to that one guy floating around in a 100k hull torp pathfinder at ~95% resists. And nobody wants to deal with that.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
I'm not a fan of that idea, actually. EBC can be disabled by a quite a few methods, and is only on squishy ships.
Ablative armor makes your hull resist between 90 and 97.5%.
That's... a pretty tough nut to crack. I mean, you're still susceptible to disables I suppose, but any aoe disables would have hit you in EBC.
Making it a toggle would basically lead to that one guy floating around in a 100k hull torp pathfinder at ~95% resists. And nobody wants to deal with that.
You get rid of the shields, and I'll handle the rest
The Tetryon Weapons started out as a mistake, I picked them when I first started playing many years ago and then decided that I actually like them. The Proc sucks, but it's just not worth the resources it would cost to fully convert the build to another energy type.
It would get a very slight buff from Antiproton or Plasma, but not enough to warrant a conversion.
The build is quite effective. It uses the Phantoms 'Reciprocity' trait to keep tactical skills on global cooldown.
I agree, torpedoes are simply not worth the efford.
For years i've been trying to create working canon-ish builds, but you're simply giving yourself a hard time when trying to use torpedoes.
And I disagree. I've tried a lot of torpedo and torpedo hybrid builds on my Armitage. I've gone from normal torpedos to rep photons to all rep torpedos.
And it worked well enough. But what really made it work for me though, was incorporating the crafting torpedo into my build. A well aimed TS3 volley will snare a lot of targets and do quite a bit of hull damage. With Kemocite Laced Weaponry, the damage becomes quite substantial. And if you fire a TS3 chained by a Photon Torpedo Defense Console volley...well, let's just say that it works nicely enough. The fact that it can use shield-stripping delta flyers doesn't harm it either.
But I agree with you on one point though. It requires a dedicated build, with a lot of trial and error.
Which torpedo moves the fastest? I read that the higher the damage the slower it moves, is this true? If it is, then it will mean photons are the fastest in the game. Could someone list the speeds with the fastest to start with please?
You can put up some pretty spike numbers with a Torp Boat but a Torp Boat is too much of a hassle to regularly use. Why?
Shields negate roughly 75% of kinetic damage.
There's tricks around that but it's that... You have to rely on too many gimmicks to make it work, otherwise everything you do is worth TRIBBLE in damage. Transphasics? Just too low base damage as compensation for the the shield penetration.
That’s not been a problem for torp boats for a while now. I have never had problems with shields either in groups or solo. 1 volley takes out most shields. Torp boats work fine at high end hitting 50k to 75k without to much problem. Ok they don't break the records energy boats do at the super top 1% but anything over 30k is more then enough for all PvE any most decent torp boats break 30k.
As an Eng pilot I prefer to fly Cruisers as torp boats and so far have not ran into any problems. Even break 30k as a mine layer build using 4 types of mines.
EDIT: The one bit I do agree with is Transphasics are a waste of time. Transphasics Clusters torps are ok but the rest I wouldn't use for anything apart from fun.
[*]When you get paired with higher DPS people (think 40k and above), you need to fly even more aggressively since things can die before your torps land. It's something I am still struggling with.
That can be a problem but certain torps track new targets and speed up once the main target dies which is one method to get around that. I noticed that with my clusters and other high yield torps they redirected to new targets.
[*]You can spend a lot of EC, Dil and even Zen to get this to a pretty powerful level, but a beam boat will still be more powerful.
I used to run some B'Rel's as pure kinetic ships. It was some of the craziest fun flying those things with APO, EPTE and A2DAMP, launching torps and mines, zipping away and praying no insta-hit torps would land...... I never breached 10k in STFs with them before the launch of DR, but it was a blast! I'm eagerly waiting the new guide to see if I might get back into a kinetic build once more.
As for a torpedo boat I haven't come up with anything since I don't feel I know enough. From the basic reading I have done I know I will need a science ship but which one? Are there any current guides out there?
I don't know about current guides, but torpedo boats can be a lot of fun. But yeah you want a science vessel.
There are some synergies with science powers and certain torpedoes. Grav well paired with gravimetric torpedo from Dyson rep with torpedo spread results in a lot of overlapping holds and damage. You then use the particle emission plasma torpedo from the crafting system to create a AoE DoT. That's just one idea.
A lot of the new reputation torpedoes have some kind of AoE effects, so they all work particular great with Gravity Well. Same is true for the Particle Emission Torpedo. I think the Gravimetric, Particle Emission and Neutronic might be the best pick.
But yeah, any viable torpedo build looks to me like it should be science vessel based. At least my Science Boats are pretty much all build around using torpedoes. (But also some energy weapons along with that.)
There is a trait whose name I forget that makes your torpedo deal a DOT after effect. That is also a very important ingredient. Shield Penetration (available also via traits) is probably also something you want.
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I do think though that hull should offer some kind of resistance against energy weapons, or shields should have bonus resistance to both types but work better against torps.
I actually did my Sci main for craps and giggles with my sci raptor. Doesn't do too badly. Granted I have 1 Disruptor turret and the the radiant dual disruptors for the set bonus on the ship and gives it a little bit of sheild degridation, I have also the radiant transphasic torp, 2 other transphasic torps and 2 torp clusters.
Good spike damage along with beating the holy hell out of targets with GW2 and TR1.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Torp boats are nice to try out for the challenge that their disadvantages bring. Since you are regular Fed i dont think there are any ships available to you yet that has Enhanced Battle Cloak (EBC). On my Tvaro and Faeht stealth bombers i have lots and lots of fun. But since you dont have that option as a Fed i wont go into it.
My other torp boats are a Karfi and a Vesta. I like to run Science Captains on all my torp boats for photonic fleet and sensor scan. I use Science Ships because it allows me to run GW which adds to all the damage going out. The Tvaro and Faeht arent Sci ships but they can still use Grav Well 1 which is better than no Grav Well at all. Grav Well is nice to have because it adds some damage of its own, but it also clumps everything up so that you can daisy-chain warp core explosions. If you have plasma launchers or the gravimetric launchers then Grav Well is nice for those too cause it helps spread plasma fires or with a times torp spread-grav launcher you can stack all the kinetic damage rifts in the same place. So you have plasma fires, kinetic rifts, grav wells and then warp core breaches all doing damage in this small area. If you are having to deal with a target 1v1 like a cube then you can pop photonic fleet and nimbus pirates for a little extra help.
For my non-stealth bomber torp boats i like to stand off at a distance and pew pew. I like to use Carriers as well because the pets add a tiny bit of dps and they can sometimes serve as a minor distraction. As far as weapons go since i do mostly old borg content, CE, AN and the old Fleet instances i can get away with the Romulan Hyper-Plasma launcher. You can even set your ship and doffs up so that you are firing a continous stream of Hyper-Plasma torps. But if you like to do other content like Voth, Undine instances or BZs then there will be lots of enemy AOE going around so it may eat most of your targettable plasma projectiles. So for those you may want to use launchers that have non-targetable projectiles AND that also launch non-targetable projectiles when you use torp high yield/spread.
IMHO, crafted transphasics are nice when you're leveling, but once you hit Lvl 50+ content, they lose their potency very quickly. Their damage is quite low compared to the beefed-up hullHP of DR scaling.
As an aside, all of your cluster torpedoes are actually mines. I'd petition for a name change, but I'd rather focus on dealing with the more urgent situations like bugs and viability of powers for kinetics. (Ex: WHY should the Energy torpedoes benefit 100% from Concentrate Firepower, but other KINETICS do not?)
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Might be lower, but you're always assured atleast 1500 to 2000 dmg even when shields are up. And the MK XII borg transphasic is particularly nasty. I even use the mk XI rapid reload transphasic and it actually loads as fast as quantums and such.
If I had the energy and stuff to upgrade it, I would. Don't discount transphasics, they can do a fair share of damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I'm not following your line of reasoning. Could you elaborate, please?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I wish they'd rework the console so it was always on until enemy fire burns through it or until you deactivate it, because that would fit more in line with how it was shown to work in 'Endgame'.
Makes too much sense... can't do it.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I'm not a fan of that idea, actually. EBC can be disabled by a quite a few methods, and is only on squishy ships.
Ablative armor makes your hull resist between 90 and 97.5%.
That's... a pretty tough nut to crack. I mean, you're still susceptible to disables I suppose, but any aoe disables would have hit you in EBC.
Making it a toggle would basically lead to that one guy floating around in a 100k hull torp pathfinder at ~95% resists. And nobody wants to deal with that.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
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You get rid of the shields, and I'll handle the rest
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I had posted this as my build but if anyone wants to share their PVE builds as a template I would love to see them
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=assaultcruiserrefitt5utact_10130
This is my current PVE Beam Boat: U.S.S. Vigilant.
The Tetryon Weapons started out as a mistake, I picked them when I first started playing many years ago and then decided that I actually like them. The Proc sucks, but it's just not worth the resources it would cost to fully convert the build to another energy type.
It would get a very slight buff from Antiproton or Plasma, but not enough to warrant a conversion.
The build is quite effective. It uses the Phantoms 'Reciprocity' trait to keep tactical skills on global cooldown.
And I disagree. I've tried a lot of torpedo and torpedo hybrid builds on my Armitage. I've gone from normal torpedos to rep photons to all rep torpedos.
And it worked well enough. But what really made it work for me though, was incorporating the crafting torpedo into my build. A well aimed TS3 volley will snare a lot of targets and do quite a bit of hull damage. With Kemocite Laced Weaponry, the damage becomes quite substantial. And if you fire a TS3 chained by a Photon Torpedo Defense Console volley...well, let's just say that it works nicely enough.
But I agree with you on one point though. It requires a dedicated build, with a lot of trial and error.
NEW Max-1 hit record!
Max. One-Hit: 686,313 (Heavy Temporal Disruption III () (Pet-Abilities))
We now return you back to your regularly scheduled beam-boat build already in progress.
Would you mind if we use your build on The SHOW and see what our crew can do for you? Just give us an operational budget to work with.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
As an Eng pilot I prefer to fly Cruisers as torp boats and so far have not ran into any problems. Even break 30k as a mine layer build using 4 types of mines.
EDIT: The one bit I do agree with is Transphasics are a waste of time. Transphasics Clusters torps are ok but the rest I wouldn't use for anything apart from fun.
I used to run some B'Rel's as pure kinetic ships. It was some of the craziest fun flying those things with APO, EPTE and A2DAMP, launching torps and mines, zipping away and praying no insta-hit torps would land...... I never breached 10k in STFs with them before the launch of DR, but it was a blast! I'm eagerly waiting the new guide to see if I might get back into a kinetic build once more.
I stand corrected about breaking 80k in a torpedo boat though. I believe Marshall already did?
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But yeah, any viable torpedo build looks to me like it should be science vessel based. At least my Science Boats are pretty much all build around using torpedoes. (But also some energy weapons along with that.)
There is a trait whose name I forget that makes your torpedo deal a DOT after effect. That is also a very important ingredient. Shield Penetration (available also via traits) is probably also something you want.