The devs keep stressing the importance of "constructive feedback", but what actually is it that they consider constructive feedback? I asked this question back in 2012 when Gozer was supposed to take over PVP - and never got a reply.
Gozer was gone by the end of the following month, no? Heretic left around the same time too, yeah?
But reading that...was kind of painful, cause it does force one to think about just how long some of the same things have gone on...year after year, after year...er...after year and year.
* * * * *
That actually got me thinking back to the LoR beta on Tribble...all the interaction with Archon...he's gone. Hawk tried to get some interaction going...he's gone.
Acceptance- "Okay, time to uninstall and go find another game."
I'm not 'at' acceptance yet. I'm still bouncing between anger and depression on this subject, and I think a lot of other players are too.
I'm at that stage now.
When I said that immunities were out of hand (nearly 20 seconds? Really?), people starting going off of a "PvPers are the worst" tirade, somehow turned it into a "And you guys want to nerf PartGen too? JERKS!" discussion, and made me realize that we've got no hope in a game where people want to and actually like facerolling through enemies by the highest difficulty settings while facing no threat, danger, or challenge to themselves other than perfecting their firing cycles and timing.
I used to be a die hard PvP'er but these days I have just grown more and more contemptuous of PvP'ers.
What remains of the PvP community these days seems to be in large part be extremely toxic, not just on the forums but in-game as well.
When I see the abuse, vulgar language and profanities being hurled at fellow players almost every single bloody time, I just feel like PvP is a sick cancerous growth and should be axed entirely.
I can honestly say I don't blame the devs one bit for ignoring PvP these days.
I am not fond of PvP but do I want to see it removed, no. I also avoid any sort of pug as well because of the toxicity of some of the players in game, I mean getting told to delete my account because of a Scimitard flying jerk telling me that I am not playing his way,description heavily edited for politeness (some times it is a mistake to have the profanity filters turned off). Slightly off topic here Heretic is now a dev at Gazillion Entertainment working on Marvel Heroes 2015 if anybody wanted to know.
90% of the escorts nowadays use AP FAW with plasma consoles and threw both piloting skills and cannons out of the window.
10% are escorts worth of that name and with exceptional pilots who use them.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
indeed, if you really are a PvPer, or were, you don't go around spitting acid on those who used to be your comrades.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
indeed, if you really are a PvPer, or were, you don't go around spitting acid on those who used to be your comrades.
The pvp community on this game is so amazingly closed and aloof they present a wall to anyone who might be interested. I see here some recruiting ideas from earlier in this thread:
"get the pve content harder- wont be so jarring for new players to do pvp then
get the pve crowd to warm up to that idea- wont be so jarring if cryptic does act to increase challenge in content
finally, you may think that all pve guys are dumb, you may even think they don't know how to build ships, you may even think that every pve player hates pvp players...
but the fact still remains, we have to pull pve players OVER TO pvp in order to replenish those that have left
so that means all of us gotta start shaking hands and kissing babies at this point to start winning more friends out of that crowd vs creating more enemies."
Lobbying to make the game harder when a large majority has trouble with it as it is will not win any friends. Lobbying for the nerfing of things like ss, part gens, embassy consoles etc will not win any friends.
People like me are your 'customers.' My main character's ship was designed long ago for pvp survivability. I've altered it slightly but have the parts sitting in my inventory to switch if the call is ever needed. Ultimate survivability has always been my interest in this game. In pve it is mostly overkill.
Yet your pvp queues sit dead and your community is entirely closed and openly hostile to outsiders, so there is no possibility to get involved.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The pvp community on this game is so amazingly closed and aloof they present a wall to anyone who might be interested. I see here some recruiting ideas from earlier in this thread:
{Snipped}
Yet your pvp queues sit dead and your community is entirely closed and openly hostile to outsiders, so there is no possibility to get involved.
The fact that the pvp game is dead is why the community is as well. The community has never been closed, it used to be very easy to become a PvPer... it was not hard to say hi as a new player in Opvp, be pvping with a opvp team for an evening and before you know it end up in a fleet if that is what you wanted to do.
It seems closed now because there is no pvp happening for that to take place.
I remember bringing new players into fleets I was in... after an evening of blowing things up, and having someone jump on our vent and realize they seemed like cool people to game with it was no big deal to invite them back, and ask them if they want to join the club.
Most PvP fleets have always been "don't call us, we'll call you" that isn't because they where closed... its boils down to 2 reasons;
1) In PvP land the fleet name is important. Most competitive people want the fleet name respected heck even feared. You can't have that if you invite 100s of so-so players to represent the brand. (many fleets used to have offshoot / training fleets like this, like Panda Cubs ect) This is just like a real life gang you have a feeder club where people learn the ropes before making the big club.
2) Most PvP fleets are smaller then their PvP cousins. No one wants to invite someone that is going to turn out to be the jerk that uses all the fleets provisions the second the provision mission ends. As a smaller fleet most PvP fleets don't install the 20 levels of access that PvE fleets have. In the small fleet I still run and the bit larger fleet I am a part of... the members are people we know and everyone has access. (it hardly ever goes wrong, when it does of course it makes for some great Opvp drama... I mean ask the Beeeutiful Onions how that can go)
Anyway... just trying to explain why things can seem closed off. If more PvP was happening on a regular basis (which would require a much more balanced and fun game) it would hardy seemed closed. As it is as a member of a PvP fleet... IF I log in and run a match, if some new player asks me for help they will get it, if they ask to join my fleet they won't... cause 3/4 of my fleet mates are not playing, and the fleet is in semi park mode. Inviting them wouldn't be fair to them or my old tight knit fleet mates who will wonder who all the new kids are if they came back.
I know this is getting to be a long post, just one other thing to note. Many of the "PvP" fleets did not start that way. There are plenty of PvP fleets that started as PvE fleets with a "pvp wing" from there some of those fleets became known as PvP fleets, and some of those "pvp wing" people started there own PvP fleets at some point. At this time in the game if anyone wants to join the "PvP community" the only way to do that would be to start a new PvP fleet... cause the old ones are Mostly all dead or in extended maintenance mode.
The pvp community on this game is so amazingly closed and aloof they present a wall to anyone who might be interested. I see here some recruiting ideas from earlier in this thread:
"get the pve content harder- wont be so jarring for new players to do pvp then
get the pve crowd to warm up to that idea- wont be so jarring if cryptic does act to increase challenge in content
finally, you may think that all pve guys are dumb, you may even think they don't know how to build ships, you may even think that every pve player hates pvp players...
but the fact still remains, we have to pull pve players OVER TO pvp in order to replenish those that have left
so that means all of us gotta start shaking hands and kissing babies at this point to start winning more friends out of that crowd vs creating more enemies."
Lobbying to make the game harder when a large majority has trouble with it as it is will not win any friends. Lobbying for the nerfing of things like ss, part gens, embassy consoles etc will not win any friends.
People like me are your 'customers.' My main character's ship was designed long ago for pvp survivability. I've altered it slightly but have the parts sitting in my inventory to switch if the call is ever needed. Ultimate survivability has always been my interest in this game. In pve it is mostly overkill.
Yet your pvp queues sit dead and your community is entirely closed and openly hostile to outsiders, so there is no possibility to get involved.
that's curious. First I agreed, then disagreed, agreed, disagreed, agreed. Yes I don't like the vast majority of PvErs, Namely those who have to spit acid on me or my friends because they play PvP.
Second, you have the usual misconception of lobbying. We don't lobby on anything, we make a point that most of the times reveals to be true. PartG change was actually a buff and still nobody proposed it in here, SS3 nerf has been done by devs who stated it was by all means overperforming. So if you're going to blame us, forget it.
I am also a customer, and you have no more rights on me or PvPers like we don't on you. Take the embassy consoles. Would it matter to you if it the damage was tweaked to avoid instakilling player ships? Or turned in a clearable and unstackable DoT while retaining the same damage?
PvP community, the one I know is all but hostile, try expanding your horizons instead of following propaganda.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
I don't think you are the target market, you have frequently came into the pvp forums time and again to simply tell us all that we suck, that we are cruel, and that your happy that any of us are unhappy
I don't recall ever doing that. I may have said in some forum that you are 'cruel' in different language but I have not visited this forum in many months - actually out of respect for your turf.
by the way, you can skip answering any of my questions and return to your trolling, I have been on the forums for sometime now and I DO KNOW WHO YOU ARE, not in game of coarse, but often your posts are confrontational, vulgar, and directed at trying to place yourself above others-
for someone that claims pvpers are not very helpful.....
I am at a loss to even think of one post I have ever read from you on any of the forums that you were in any way helpful
I am often helpful in providing information to those asking questions. Yes, I am often blunt as well or brusque or flippant. However, I am not trying to initiate a sales campaign to increase membership in anything. You are? right?
sorry, just my personal observation,
again,
return to your trolling-
cause both you and I know:) that's why your here.
False. I came because of the posts in general forum and wanted to address some things that I saw. My arguments and positions on game issues are various and complex. And all motivated by what can keep the game running the longest. If that doesn't benefit your region of gaming then you may not like what I have to say.
responses added inside quote.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
indeed, if you really are a PvPer, or were, you don't go around spitting acid on those who used to be your comrades.
Congrats on reinforcing the negative stereotype of PvP'ers.
Someone expresses an opinion contrary to your own and you attempt to discredit it through personal attacks. :rolleyes:
Congrats on reinforcing the negative stereotype of PvP'ers.
Someone expresses an opinion contrary to your own and you attempt to discredit it through personal attacks. :rolleyes:
People that roll with stereotypes are ignorant dolts. Somebody says something, then get pissed off at them...stereotyping a group because of that? It's why I got ticked off earlier, knowing that the forums are so full of morons that do that stereotyping garbage. Try thinking instead, instead of being lazy...I know it's so hard...but try, eh?
I mean seriously.
Not all PvE folks are entitled scrubs.
Not all DPS folks are elitist douche nozzles.
Not all PvP folks type with their balls.
Not all this, not all that, etc, etc, etc...
...why do so many folks just do that stereotype garbage?
People that roll with stereotypes are ignorant dolts. Somebody says something, then get pissed off at them...stereotyping a group because of that? It's why I got ticked off earlier, knowing that the forums are so full of morons that do that stereotyping garbage. Try thinking instead, instead of being lazy...I know it's so hard...but try, eh?
I mean seriously.
Not all PvE folks are entitled scrubs.
Not all DPS folks are elitist douche nozzles.
Not all PvP folks type with their balls.
Not all this, not all that, etc, etc, etc...
...why do so many folks just do that stereotype garbage?
Because its human nature and the way the world works.
Being Swedish I have lost track of the number of times my american friends have asked me about our "hot blondes", just as quite a few people are convinced french people in general regularly dine on frog legs, or that Russians drink vodka and wrestle bears, etc.
Sad I know, but thats the reality of things, we as humans tend to be very impressionable.
My comment was sarcasm, with the point being that PvP'ers already have a very bad reputation here on the forums, and crass comments of such nature only serve to further reinforce the negative preconcieved notions many people already have about PvP'ers.
My initial post on other hand was nothing else than my personal feelings based on first hand experience and observation.... unfortunately.
On average 8/10 games that ive played in the last couple of years has someone hurling insults and profanities at their so called "comrades".
Er...admittedly one of them is still my old test account that I deleted. Five of the people no longer play and might only pop on via Pidgin from time to time. There's the one person I've never spoken to in game. Then there's you...and I might reply half the time (if I'm even there). So can't count myself obviously...so...
Comments
Gozer was gone by the end of the following month, no? Heretic left around the same time too, yeah?
But reading that...was kind of painful, cause it does force one to think about just how long some of the same things have gone on...year after year, after year...er...after year and year.
* * * * *
That actually got me thinking back to the LoR beta on Tribble...all the interaction with Archon...he's gone. Hawk tried to get some interaction going...he's gone.
I'm at that stage now.
When I said that immunities were out of hand (nearly 20 seconds? Really?), people starting going off of a "PvPers are the worst" tirade, somehow turned it into a "And you guys want to nerf PartGen too? JERKS!" discussion, and made me realize that we've got no hope in a game where people want to and actually like facerolling through enemies by the highest difficulty settings while facing no threat, danger, or challenge to themselves other than perfecting their firing cycles and timing.
What remains of the PvP community these days seems to be in large part be extremely toxic, not just on the forums but in-game as well.
When I see the abuse, vulgar language and profanities being hurled at fellow players almost every single bloody time, I just feel like PvP is a sick cancerous growth and should be axed entirely.
I can honestly say I don't blame the devs one bit for ignoring PvP these days.
But if I was ghost, I'd think Virus was channeling my spirit.
90% of the escorts nowadays use AP FAW with plasma consoles and threw both piloting skills and cannons out of the window.
10% are escorts worth of that name and with exceptional pilots who use them.
This isn't the first go around with this. Or similar use of equally silly mechanics. PVP has a long and honored tradition of "WIN".
Look at any grouping of the clickable wonder consoles.
Would you consider them to take any measurable amount of skill to use? Of course not. So where to start? Tell us where to put our rage so we know.
Or we could put away the childish things, shun the 'maniacs', and just start over.
What Borticus posted, was and is to this day, true.
So bring on the change, the new fresh start. Show us all what you guys have that's worth attention. Or not.
No you weren't. At least not in this game.
Just another RPer lost on the site.
indeed, if you really are a PvPer, or were, you don't go around spitting acid on those who used to be your comrades.
The pvp community on this game is so amazingly closed and aloof they present a wall to anyone who might be interested. I see here some recruiting ideas from earlier in this thread:
"get the pve content harder- wont be so jarring for new players to do pvp then
get the pve crowd to warm up to that idea- wont be so jarring if cryptic does act to increase challenge in content
finally, you may think that all pve guys are dumb, you may even think they don't know how to build ships, you may even think that every pve player hates pvp players...
but the fact still remains, we have to pull pve players OVER TO pvp in order to replenish those that have left
so that means all of us gotta start shaking hands and kissing babies at this point to start winning more friends out of that crowd vs creating more enemies."
Lobbying to make the game harder when a large majority has trouble with it as it is will not win any friends. Lobbying for the nerfing of things like ss, part gens, embassy consoles etc will not win any friends.
People like me are your 'customers.' My main character's ship was designed long ago for pvp survivability. I've altered it slightly but have the parts sitting in my inventory to switch if the call is ever needed. Ultimate survivability has always been my interest in this game. In pve it is mostly overkill.
Yet your pvp queues sit dead and your community is entirely closed and openly hostile to outsiders, so there is no possibility to get involved.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Not true at all. OPvP and these forums were always open to newcomers.
It just was never tolerant of people who would try to start **** with PvPers.
The fact that the pvp game is dead is why the community is as well. The community has never been closed, it used to be very easy to become a PvPer... it was not hard to say hi as a new player in Opvp, be pvping with a opvp team for an evening and before you know it end up in a fleet if that is what you wanted to do.
It seems closed now because there is no pvp happening for that to take place.
I remember bringing new players into fleets I was in... after an evening of blowing things up, and having someone jump on our vent and realize they seemed like cool people to game with it was no big deal to invite them back, and ask them if they want to join the club.
Most PvP fleets have always been "don't call us, we'll call you" that isn't because they where closed... its boils down to 2 reasons;
1) In PvP land the fleet name is important. Most competitive people want the fleet name respected heck even feared. You can't have that if you invite 100s of so-so players to represent the brand. (many fleets used to have offshoot / training fleets like this, like Panda Cubs ect) This is just like a real life gang you have a feeder club where people learn the ropes before making the big club.
2) Most PvP fleets are smaller then their PvP cousins. No one wants to invite someone that is going to turn out to be the jerk that uses all the fleets provisions the second the provision mission ends.
Anyway... just trying to explain why things can seem closed off. If more PvP was happening on a regular basis (which would require a much more balanced and fun game) it would hardy seemed closed. As it is as a member of a PvP fleet... IF I log in and run a match, if some new player asks me for help they will get it, if they ask to join my fleet they won't... cause 3/4 of my fleet mates are not playing, and the fleet is in semi park mode. Inviting them wouldn't be fair to them or my old tight knit fleet mates who will wonder who all the new kids are if they came back.
I know this is getting to be a long post, just one other thing to note. Many of the "PvP" fleets did not start that way. There are plenty of PvP fleets that started as PvE fleets with a "pvp wing" from there some of those fleets became known as PvP fleets, and some of those "pvp wing" people started there own PvP fleets at some point. At this time in the game if anyone wants to join the "PvP community" the only way to do that would be to start a new PvP fleet... cause the old ones are Mostly all dead or in extended maintenance mode.
that's curious. First I agreed, then disagreed, agreed, disagreed, agreed. Yes I don't like the vast majority of PvErs, Namely those who have to spit acid on me or my friends because they play PvP.
Second, you have the usual misconception of lobbying. We don't lobby on anything, we make a point that most of the times reveals to be true. PartG change was actually a buff and still nobody proposed it in here, SS3 nerf has been done by devs who stated it was by all means overperforming. So if you're going to blame us, forget it.
I am also a customer, and you have no more rights on me or PvPers like we don't on you. Take the embassy consoles. Would it matter to you if it the damage was tweaked to avoid instakilling player ships? Or turned in a clearable and unstackable DoT while retaining the same damage?
PvP community, the one I know is all but hostile, try expanding your horizons instead of following propaganda.
Will people not looking for a challenge be the kind that would be looking to PvP?
Will people not interested in balance in the least be the kind of folks one would want to PvP with?
responses added inside quote.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Congrats on reinforcing the negative stereotype of PvP'ers.
Someone expresses an opinion contrary to your own and you attempt to discredit it through personal attacks. :rolleyes:
People that roll with stereotypes are ignorant dolts. Somebody says something, then get pissed off at them...stereotyping a group because of that? It's why I got ticked off earlier, knowing that the forums are so full of morons that do that stereotyping garbage. Try thinking instead, instead of being lazy...I know it's so hard...but try, eh?
I mean seriously.
Not all PvE folks are entitled scrubs.
Not all DPS folks are elitist douche nozzles.
Not all PvP folks type with their balls.
Not all this, not all that, etc, etc, etc...
...why do so many folks just do that stereotype garbage?
Sing THIS SONG to yourself, gently. Just replace the word "orchestra" with "Borticus".
All of you All. Of. You. Will start to feel BET-TER!
And virus, your sig is broken. It's showing you at 7% socializer.
I think it's getting false positives somehow.
Maybe it's a 7% chance to be social...and the RNG just isn't doing anybody any favors.
Or...maybe it is!
* * * * *
So, how does my Bartle fit in with my Myers-Briggs? ISTP-A...
So maybe it's just a 2% chance to be 7% social.
Nah.
It's picking up false positives.
Because its human nature and the way the world works.
Being Swedish I have lost track of the number of times my american friends have asked me about our "hot blondes", just as quite a few people are convinced french people in general regularly dine on frog legs, or that Russians drink vodka and wrestle bears, etc.
Sad I know, but thats the reality of things, we as humans tend to be very impressionable.
My comment was sarcasm, with the point being that PvP'ers already have a very bad reputation here on the forums, and crass comments of such nature only serve to further reinforce the negative preconcieved notions many people already have about PvP'ers.
My initial post on other hand was nothing else than my personal feelings based on first hand experience and observation.... unfortunately.
On average 8/10 games that ive played in the last couple of years has someone hurling insults and profanities at their so called "comrades".
I feel bad now...having just said this like four days ago:
Hey though, at least I left out the women's/men's part - not knowing which of the two teams that particular poster might have preferred...
* * * * *
I'm very social...er...not in the least. I had an aunt call me a stick in the mud once...and it kind of stuck...like a stick in the mud.
Er...admittedly one of them is still my old test account that I deleted. Five of the people no longer play and might only pop on via Pidgin from time to time. There's the one person I've never spoken to in game. Then there's you...and I might reply half the time (if I'm even there). So can't count myself obviously...so...
1 / 7 = 0.14 / 2 = 0.07 = 7%...voila!!!
Course, if somebody's not unlucky enough to be on that list...they run into: http://i.imgur.com/dcKd2sY.png