Yeah, tenth post of his has been done one month ago, average of one post every three days. Way to go everyday.
Do us a favor, shut up if you don't have anything constructive to add. To be honest, nobody really cares of the number of fks you give while "working" about STO forums. Keep your lame attitude for yourself.
Thought you were on board with my experiment?
"shut up" "nobody cares" "lame attitude"
I'm not trying to pick on you here. I'm trying to make a point.
Some of you have really thick skins and those words wouldn't make a dent in them. But "them's fightin' words" as the saying goes. It takes no effort at all to interpret them as infractions under forum rules. It takes even less effort to be offended and go on the offensive because of them.
What takes a lot of effort is choosing to ignore posts you don't like and refuse to respond to them. Even more effort to choose to respond gracefully.
Yes, I am asking for that kind of effort. I'll understand if it's too much to ask. But then I'll have to close the thread.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
What takes a lot of effort is choosing to ignore posts you don't like and refuse to respond to them.
That would be a lot easier if PWE hadn't taken away the easily accessable ignore button on the forums. People have been complaining about this for years, why hasn't it returned yet?
pvp'ers are of a competitive nature, and generally care enough to want to be a part of the improvement of the experience, thus a very high % of us actually post on the forum from what i can tell.
pve'ers that feel the need to post on the forum, they are of a argumentative nature, and most of them, especially the more notorious pvp haters, have staggering superiority complexes. sure, not all pve'ers are like that, but the ones that have thousands of posts on forums? its 1, the other or both with all of them.
I'm not trying to pick on you here. I'm trying to make a point.
Some of you have really thick skins and those words wouldn't make a dent in them. But "them's fightin' words" as the saying goes. It takes no effort at all to interpret them as infractions under forum rules. It takes even less effort to be offended and go on the offensive because of them.
What takes a lot of effort is choosing to ignore posts you don't like and refuse to respond to them. Even more effort to choose to respond gracefully.
Yes, I am asking for that kind of effort. I'll understand if it's too much to ask. But then I'll have to close the thread.
Posts like the one you quoted really make me sad because that's why PvP gets a bad rep. One guy makes a rude post, and the stereotype begins.
We just spent two days arguing in General Discussion that PvP'rs aren't rude like people make us out to be. What you said could easily have been said without the attitude.
I'm not trying to pick on you here. I'm trying to make a point.
Some of you have really thick skins and those words wouldn't make a dent in them. But "them's fightin' words" as the saying goes. It takes no effort at all to interpret them as infractions under forum rules. It takes even less effort to be offended and go on the offensive because of them.
What takes a lot of effort is choosing to ignore posts you don't like and refuse to respond to them. Even more effort to choose to respond gracefully.
Yes, I am asking for that kind of effort. I'll understand if it's too much to ask. But then I'll have to close the thread.
The experiment is pointless. PvP and the PvP forums are like this due to lack of attention by Cryptic. Cryptic has done nothing for PvP even when the PvP forums were more constructive so logic tells us that they will continue to do nothing even if PvP forum goers were to curb the attitudes that Cryptic rightly deserves.
To think "Gee maybe if we're good, Cryptic will finally throw us a bone" puts us down to such a level of pathetic child-like dysfunctional developer to customer relationship that I'm not comfortable ever supporting it.
At this point, it would begin the healing and let people move on if the PvP sub-forum was just removed and PvP along with it. I suspect even that though would cost more time than Cryptic would want to spend.
It's time for people to move on. Forget about PvP in STO. Forget about the hundreds or thousand of dollars and thousands of hours you've devoted towards it and just try to remember the good times and write it off as lesson learned.
the point was to illustrate as best as I could, that when a person comes into the pvp forums of all places and lays down a no-nonsense... no-debate... no-conversation-starter... no-question... just "I hate pvp, I hate all of you, I hope cryptic deletes it" sort of post...
that for the love of god you can expect the sort of conversation that will follow
Go through and do a search for the posts from zathri83...all but a small handful of his posts being exactly that. 486 posts, where probably 470 of them are just that...and...well, reporting does no good. He continues to pop into random threads all over the place, in some threads one might have a hard time imagining how on Earth he ended up posting what he did in that thread...
...and nothing is done.
He's been reported to askray.
He's been reported to bluegeek.
He's been reported to Trendy.
He's dropped out hundreds upon hundreds of flamebait trolling posts...
Before that, lol, he had a stream of bashing Cryptic posts...so my bad...cause askray apparently did edit one of zahtri83's posts...and so zathri83 had to have a temper tantrum...before going back to his flamebaiting...just like he'd been doing before the post was edited.
I think I remember the one that got edited...I think. Yeah, the microtransaction thread - it blew my mind to see him post what he did in that one and I reported it.
Should I have to sit there and go all stalker on zathri83? Hell, it's not even a case of that - I'm on the forums too much, lol, can't help but running into his posts like that. So report it over and over and over and over and over...why?
It's endless frustration...just ignore him? That doesn't work...the frustration builds in the gut...and bam, end up unloading on somebody else that might not have deserved it.
Now, I'm no angel by any means...I'm damn lucky to be able to post...and though my "good" posts do not excuse the "bad" posts...at least there are some "good" posts, yeah?
zathri83 is a broken record of PvP flamebaiting....
A lot of our pent us frustration can be contributed to the fact that we've just been left hanging.
We've been told numerous times of a "PvP season", had new content (Freighter Convoy Escort) on Tribble magically disappear, and were lead to believe that we'd have stuff coming to us maybe not "soon", but still coming.
At least before there was some interaction. Now it's just a dead zone.
If they would just tell us "Hey, we've got nothing coming" or "We're not planning on any further PvP development", or even "We've got TRIBBLE to do first/3 months worth of stuff that takes priority", that would go a long way.
Log in and play with me and I'll make the bad thoughts go away.
I have cake in my ready room.
Meh, that ISA run with those guys really ticked me off...I had thought I'd closed the game out. It's things like that which leave me not wanting to play.
Willard the Rat) 18,829
Player 5,342
Player C) 4,231
Player D) 2,853
Player E) 2,311
I checked...cause Player B could have fallen into the contributing player status even with that DPS...but no CC, no Tank, no Heal...nothing...just another of the four folks that shouldn't have been in that run in the first place. Just some unlucky RNG where 1-2 of them might have been able to be carried by the random PUG.
Willard's almost 19k is about 3x what is needed...factoring in the combination of the GW/R-TBR/Tanking/Healing to make up for the difference had his DPS been 1/3rd of what it was. (Keeping in mind, that almost 19k isn't even 20% of the DPS the top players in the game are pumping out.)
But hey, it wasn't just about the low DPS of Players B-E. Player C went ahead and popped a Gen early...of course. That's okay, fly over, QSM/Aux Batt and GW...then back to pop the Trans, right? Well, no...the other Gens weren't going anywhere. So pop those. Now the Trans!
Except the group was doing the butterfly chasing fun instead.
So sitting there, another GW ready...I didn't bother. There was no point. Less painful just to let it fail and be done with it. Course, didn't see just how low the DPS was - thought it was going to be one of the enough DPS but butterfly chasing fails...not a low DPS and butterfly chasing fail. So I went so smoke...thought I'd closed the client, but I guess I just minimized it there.
Reminds me of a failed run earlier this morning...was funny...was a four man that slowly was going along fine, avoiding the fail, as a fifth guy joined. That fifth guy flipped out as it was going to fail. Watching him curse at folks telling them to shoot the Transformer...lol, they were shooting the Transformer. Their DPS was just that low that it wasn't going anywhere.
One of the Nanite Spheres ignored the GW/R-TBR action (I was buried in over a dozen of them - yeah, there wasn't much DPS so they kept coming through the Gateway - but it worked for the first Trans...but one of the Nanites just ignored it and that was that).
But at least those guys had been trying...so I tried to do everything I could, kicked it up a notch.
With that later run...I didn't want to be there. I almost just closed the client before the fail...not wanting to be any part of that run.
* * * * *
Virus? PvP thread? PvE? WTF? A wee bit of patience, eh?
* * * * *
So up through the F2P conversion...safe to say that PvP folks were feeling...neglected, yeah? After the F2P conversion? Well, imho, it was an outright assault on PvP that began...
Changes to Universal Consoles, Lock Box/Lobi stuff, S6 and the introduction of Fleet stuff, S7 and everything that came after that...everything just another nail in the coffin of PvP, right?
Well, obviously that stuff for PvE which was killing PvP was needed for the PvE, right?
Nope. The vast majority of PvE content can be completed in a T5 9 console boat using Mk X gear at best. Everything else is just superfluous allowing folks to run that treadmill to nowhere faster.
But more and more stuff kept getting added? Yep, and PvP kept getting worse and worse because of it. Well, did the PvE get better?
Hence my starting off with the PvE bit in reply to Thissler...
A bunch of folks out there have been doing the retcon thing in PvEland - trying to make out Delta Rising as the scapegoat for all sorts of PvE issues. Thing is, there was a thread created shortly after the F2P conversion about the Worst STF...yadda, yadda, yadda. It had well over 3200 posts before Delta Rising came along. All these "new" complaints that the retcon folks are trying to bring up, lol, they're the same damn complaints that folks that make excuses have been making for years. Has nothing to do with Delta Rising.
So what does that tell the devs? Well, even though they've got folks out there doing over 100k DPS in content that requires 7k DPS...they just haven't added enough TRIBBLE yet, cause there's still folks showing up doing 1-2k DPS.
So what does that mean? PvP is going to continue to get worse...and worse.
Telling Cryptic to stop? It's how they're making money and keeping the game going, right? They're not going to stop.
* * * * *
Then it gets into discussions of limiting things, creating PvE/PvP duplicates of everything so it works one way in one and another in the other, eh? Where's the revenue in that?
Hell, as is...how many folks have complained about the stuff over the years while buying all the stuff anyway? Giving into the arms race...saying one thing on the forums but saying another with the wallet.
But say they were to put the effort into it, where is the money in it? It's a business...at the end of the day...things need to generate revenue, yeah?
Look at so many of the P2W F2P PvP games out there (yeah, folks will argue they're not - while pointing to the P2W tech trees.../facepalm)...it's kind of what's here, no?
B2P and P2P games...where there's money coming in....they can kind of avoid that stuff, eh?
* * * * *
Well, and then there's the subset of PvPers that won't touch PvE...they're not into it. Not their thing in the least. They're not even interested in the possible competitive nature of Competitive PvE offered by something like the DPS League. Imagine how something like that might come across otherwise, though, eh?
"We want balanced PvP. We're willing to spend on unbalanced PvE."
vs.
"We want balanced PvP. We don't give a TRIBBLE about the PvE."
* * * * *
It's all about money in the end. Not cause they're a bunch of greedy whatevers, but because it's a business.
* * * * * *
Find ways to monetize PvP or ways to generate revenue that can support PvP, eh?
Course, then you're going to run into all the folks that want PvP removed, yeah?
* * * * * *
Maybe PvP should have just been removed with the F2P conversion...
...it just doesn't go with where the game obviously had to go for the players the game was obviously going to attract.
Thing is we can change that, but as long as Cryptic ignores this subforum/PvP aspect of the game to the point one has to ask for a dev to show up, there's nothing much that can be done.
I admit it, the idea was to actually make borticus write in here, much like people successfully call Taco or others elsewhere. Even a simple "hello" in here, would have at least confirmed that he actually reads this forum.
Cryptic doesn't really care about PvP (not meant to be an attack, stating the opposite would be false though) -> People vent anger for having PvP destroyed (which it is, the most fun people have are privates right now, period).
What I can admit is that it was true that a handful of people reacted badly, but Cryptic isn't sunny and shiny anyway, they have their own share of fault for creating this environment.
The HP buff idea was bad, but at least they tried which is important. Some over reacted to the fact that it was a bad idea, mainly because of the state of PvP right now which just feeds anger.
However ignoring even more PvP just makes people vent even more anger, and the vicious cycle restarts.
Anger is futile. Raging accomplishes nothing but making others angry. And when you make the devs angry they ignore you.
It's like the old proverb about standing in the rain. If you don't want to get wet, get out of the rain. Cursing the rain for falling on you does nothing.
Lol...maybe instead of BoP League...should do Vo'Quv League with BoP pets? :P
Bort needs to level a BoP toon.
If they make the Vo'Quv Tier Six.
Give the new elite pets Beta.
Make all Boff traits cross faction and selectable. Cause you know I want 20% free critty goodness!
Five Tac Consoles.
Yah I'm there. And the Mirror ship Boff stations. Yah. I'm ready.
We should invite Bort to play with us. He said he was more into fun runs than parsing data anyway. Sounds like our guy.
Thissler, the fun thing...see, I posted that I got blown up! thread - cause I had fun getting blown up repeatedly. It was fun. My expectation going into that was to see a bunch of cool explosions of my ship, and I was not disappointed...boom! It's nothing new for my PvP adventures...I've joked many a time in the past that if folks just left me alone long enough, I'd find a way to blow myself up anyway (it can be more entertaining than blowing me up for some).
Going into an ISA...well, I'm expecting to have a shot at it - that everybody that's there is working toward completing it in some fashion. So when so many players show up with some other thing in mind...it rubs me the wrong way.
Doing a premade funrun sort of thing? Sure, that can be a trip - can be epic fun. But everybody's going in with the same expectations, yeah?
Heh, it's why I never got into the premade PvP thing...I never had any expectations of winning, so I was never disappointed if the team I was on were completely obliterated. Wheeeee!
And well, that's not something I believe Bort can address.
Thissler, the fun thing...see, I posted that I got blown up! thread - cause I had fun getting blown up repeatedly. It was fun. My expectation going into that was to see a bunch of cool explosions of my ship, and I was not disappointed...boom! It's nothing new for my PvP adventures...I've joked many a time in the past that if folks just left me alone long enough, I'd find a way to blow myself up anyway (it can be more entertaining than blowing me up for some).
Going into an ISA...well, I'm expecting to have a shot at it - that everybody that's there is working toward completing it in some fashion. So when so many players show up with some other thing in mind...it rubs me the wrong way.
Doing a premade funrun sort of thing? Sure, that can be a trip - can be epic fun. But everybody's going in with the same expectations, yeah?
Heh, it's why I never got into the premade PvP thing...I never had any expectations of winning, so I was never disappointed if the team I was on were completely obliterated. Wheeeee!
And well, that's not something I believe Bort can address.
I think everyone is on the fun page, and Im fairly confident our failboats can make it a win.
I've read this entire thread, and keep coming back to see new posts as they appear. Because there's actually a good conversation going on... Mostly. Well, sometimes, anyway.
But commenting on the topics being discussed is a huge minefield for somebody in my position. I'm just gonna let you folks keep talking about it, and reading along.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I've read this entire thread, and keep coming back to see new posts as they appear. Because there's actually a good conversation going on... Mostly. Well, sometimes, anyway.
But commenting on the topics being discussed is a huge minefield for somebody in my position. I'm just gonna let you folks keep talking about it, and reading along.
Glad to see that you are still here.
Can you give us any pointers or specific guidance on what's the best way to get more interaction and/or positive changes coming?
Post here? Reddit? Twitter? What kind of information; theory crafting or hard numbers? Just the numbers, or video/screenshot evidence of what we're discussing?
I've read this entire thread, and keep coming back to see new posts as they appear. Because there's actually a good conversation going on... Mostly. Well, sometimes, anyway.
But commenting on the topics being discussed is a huge minefield for somebody in my position. I'm just gonna let you folks keep talking about it, and reading along.
Oh Oh! Did you follow my link to Billy Joel singing "Where's the Borticus?"
I giggled a little.
And to be on topic, 'See I told you I saw him."
And the BOP failboats did just fine, to anyone following that.
And to anyone still interested in Dev Interaction.
Have civil discussions and they will simply stalk you.
I've read this entire thread, and keep coming back to see new posts as they appear. Because there's actually a good conversation going on... Mostly. Well, sometimes, anyway.
But commenting on the topics being discussed is a huge minefield for somebody in my position. I'm just gonna let you folks keep talking about it, and reading along.
I've read this entire thread, and keep coming back to see new posts as they appear. Because there's actually a good conversation going on... Mostly. Well, sometimes, anyway.
But commenting on the topics being discussed is a huge minefield for somebody in my position. I'm just gonna let you folks keep talking about it, and reading along.
You've probably seen 1 or 2 or 9001 posts about the [PvP Dmg]/[PvP Res] mods out there with the R&D stuff. Do you guys have metrics showing that PvP folks are being all super secretive and buying those up - using them...etc, etc, etc?
Cause, it's hard not to picture that each time some crafted out there gets one of the mods...they're not driving another rusty pin into their PvP Voodoo Dolls with anger and frustration.
Is it something where either they could be removed from the tables or perhaps replaced with something else?
Just one of those things...that might - itty bitty chance and all...that might ease up some of the tension between folks on the forums? Just a thought...wondering about that and all...
It's like beatelguse! Say his name enough, and he'll show up.
I mean, theres so much in the game that is questionable at best in pvp, that we are looking at a substantial update to how some powers work and interact, and would require what I assume is a pretty big chunk of time.
Now, the pessimist in me says "Ya right, no way they are gunna take the time to update something they are trying their best to kill."
But there's always that half dead optimist that thinks " maybe they are adding all this new stuff, because they realize that there is something to still kill in the PvP community. That leaves the chance that maybe someone might change their mind about the whole PvP thing."
I've read this entire thread, and keep coming back to see new posts as they appear. Because there's actually a good conversation going on... Mostly. Well, sometimes, anyway.
But commenting on the topics being discussed is a huge minefield for somebody in my position. I'm just gonna let you folks keep talking about it, and reading along.
Well that was refreshing to read, at least we know that despite all that this subforum has been through, you still look into it. I'm curious, what do you think of the levelless items idea and the change of plasma consoles? I'll repost it for convenience
One simple thing to do is to make all weapons and gear levelless when the player enters a PvP zone or map. This ensures that there's no power imbalance between the players, no paywall for upgrading and bringing the ship up to PvP standards: the once good mk XII is now pointless if we speak of weapons. Only thing that would matter would be quality.
Additionally, it eliminates the issue of having "just one build". Means that if people upgrade a certain set of items, they won't use un-upgraded ones because they're worse, thus locking people up with a limited amount of mix and matching.
Then change the Plasma Explosion in a DoT, in order to be clearable through Hazard Emitters or WCE doff. Add vs. Players a lockout timer to avoid stacking. This would eliminate straight away the issue, or at least reduce it by a lot as vapers wouldn't be able to exploit it, nor faw boats.
These simple things would go a long way, do not need particular effort and would make PvP playable once again. Especially the levelless gear would make PvP alt-friendly as it always had been pre-DR.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Comments
Thought you were on board with my experiment?
"shut up" "nobody cares" "lame attitude"
I'm not trying to pick on you here. I'm trying to make a point.
Some of you have really thick skins and those words wouldn't make a dent in them. But "them's fightin' words" as the saying goes. It takes no effort at all to interpret them as infractions under forum rules. It takes even less effort to be offended and go on the offensive because of them.
What takes a lot of effort is choosing to ignore posts you don't like and refuse to respond to them. Even more effort to choose to respond gracefully.
Yes, I am asking for that kind of effort. I'll understand if it's too much to ask. But then I'll have to close the thread.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
pve'ers that feel the need to post on the forum, they are of a argumentative nature, and most of them, especially the more notorious pvp haters, have staggering superiority complexes. sure, not all pve'ers are like that, but the ones that have thousands of posts on forums? its 1, the other or both with all of them.
Posts like the one you quoted really make me sad because that's why PvP gets a bad rep. One guy makes a rude post, and the stereotype begins.
@laferrari1:
We just spent two days arguing in General Discussion that PvP'rs aren't rude like people make us out to be. What you said could easily have been said without the attitude.
The experiment is pointless. PvP and the PvP forums are like this due to lack of attention by Cryptic. Cryptic has done nothing for PvP even when the PvP forums were more constructive so logic tells us that they will continue to do nothing even if PvP forum goers were to curb the attitudes that Cryptic rightly deserves.
To think "Gee maybe if we're good, Cryptic will finally throw us a bone" puts us down to such a level of pathetic child-like dysfunctional developer to customer relationship that I'm not comfortable ever supporting it.
At this point, it would begin the healing and let people move on if the PvP sub-forum was just removed and PvP along with it. I suspect even that though would cost more time than Cryptic would want to spend.
It's time for people to move on. Forget about PvP in STO. Forget about the hundreds or thousand of dollars and thousands of hours you've devoted towards it and just try to remember the good times and write it off as lesson learned.
Go through and do a search for the posts from zathri83...all but a small handful of his posts being exactly that. 486 posts, where probably 470 of them are just that...and...well, reporting does no good. He continues to pop into random threads all over the place, in some threads one might have a hard time imagining how on Earth he ended up posting what he did in that thread...
...and nothing is done.
He's been reported to askray.
He's been reported to bluegeek.
He's been reported to Trendy.
He's dropped out hundreds upon hundreds of flamebait trolling posts...
...and nothing is done.
Today in the Sandbox thread...
Yesterday in the Immunities thread...
Last Friday in the Smirk Twitch thread...
The day before in a Mannheim thread...
Before that, lol, he had a stream of bashing Cryptic posts...so my bad...cause askray apparently did edit one of zahtri83's posts...and so zathri83 had to have a temper tantrum...before going back to his flamebaiting...just like he'd been doing before the post was edited.
I think I remember the one that got edited...I think. Yeah, the microtransaction thread - it blew my mind to see him post what he did in that one and I reported it.
Should I have to sit there and go all stalker on zathri83? Hell, it's not even a case of that - I'm on the forums too much, lol, can't help but running into his posts like that. So report it over and over and over and over and over...why?
It's endless frustration...just ignore him? That doesn't work...the frustration builds in the gut...and bam, end up unloading on somebody else that might not have deserved it.
Now, I'm no angel by any means...I'm damn lucky to be able to post...and though my "good" posts do not excuse the "bad" posts...at least there are some "good" posts, yeah?
zathri83 is a broken record of PvP flamebaiting....
I have cake in my ready room.
We've been told numerous times of a "PvP season", had new content (Freighter Convoy Escort) on Tribble magically disappear, and were lead to believe that we'd have stuff coming to us maybe not "soon", but still coming.
At least before there was some interaction. Now it's just a dead zone.
If they would just tell us "Hey, we've got nothing coming" or "We're not planning on any further PvP development", or even "We've got TRIBBLE to do first/3 months worth of stuff that takes priority", that would go a long way.
Meh, that ISA run with those guys really ticked me off...I had thought I'd closed the game out. It's things like that which leave me not wanting to play.
Willard the Rat) 18,829
Player
Player C) 4,231
Player D) 2,853
Player E) 2,311
I checked...cause Player B could have fallen into the contributing player status even with that DPS...but no CC, no Tank, no Heal...nothing...just another of the four folks that shouldn't have been in that run in the first place. Just some unlucky RNG where 1-2 of them might have been able to be carried by the random PUG.
Willard's almost 19k is about 3x what is needed...factoring in the combination of the GW/R-TBR/Tanking/Healing to make up for the difference had his DPS been 1/3rd of what it was. (Keeping in mind, that almost 19k isn't even 20% of the DPS the top players in the game are pumping out.)
But hey, it wasn't just about the low DPS of Players B-E. Player C went ahead and popped a Gen early...of course. That's okay, fly over, QSM/Aux Batt and GW...then back to pop the Trans, right? Well, no...the other Gens weren't going anywhere. So pop those. Now the Trans!
Except the group was doing the butterfly chasing fun instead.
So sitting there, another GW ready...I didn't bother. There was no point. Less painful just to let it fail and be done with it. Course, didn't see just how low the DPS was - thought it was going to be one of the enough DPS but butterfly chasing fails...not a low DPS and butterfly chasing fail. So I went so smoke...thought I'd closed the client, but I guess I just minimized it there.
Reminds me of a failed run earlier this morning...was funny...was a four man that slowly was going along fine, avoiding the fail, as a fifth guy joined. That fifth guy flipped out as it was going to fail. Watching him curse at folks telling them to shoot the Transformer...lol, they were shooting the Transformer. Their DPS was just that low that it wasn't going anywhere.
One of the Nanite Spheres ignored the GW/R-TBR action (I was buried in over a dozen of them - yeah, there wasn't much DPS so they kept coming through the Gateway - but it worked for the first Trans...but one of the Nanites just ignored it and that was that).
But at least those guys had been trying...so I tried to do everything I could, kicked it up a notch.
With that later run...I didn't want to be there. I almost just closed the client before the fail...not wanting to be any part of that run.
* * * * *
Virus? PvP thread? PvE? WTF?
A wee bit of patience, eh?
* * * * *
So up through the F2P conversion...safe to say that PvP folks were feeling...neglected, yeah? After the F2P conversion? Well, imho, it was an outright assault on PvP that began...
Changes to Universal Consoles, Lock Box/Lobi stuff, S6 and the introduction of Fleet stuff, S7 and everything that came after that...everything just another nail in the coffin of PvP, right?
Well, obviously that stuff for PvE which was killing PvP was needed for the PvE, right?
Nope. The vast majority of PvE content can be completed in a T5 9 console boat using Mk X gear at best. Everything else is just superfluous allowing folks to run that treadmill to nowhere faster.
But more and more stuff kept getting added? Yep, and PvP kept getting worse and worse because of it. Well, did the PvE get better?
Hence my starting off with the PvE bit in reply to Thissler...
A bunch of folks out there have been doing the retcon thing in PvEland - trying to make out Delta Rising as the scapegoat for all sorts of PvE issues. Thing is, there was a thread created shortly after the F2P conversion about the Worst STF...yadda, yadda, yadda. It had well over 3200 posts before Delta Rising came along. All these "new" complaints that the retcon folks are trying to bring up, lol, they're the same damn complaints that folks that make excuses have been making for years. Has nothing to do with Delta Rising.
So what does that tell the devs? Well, even though they've got folks out there doing over 100k DPS in content that requires 7k DPS...they just haven't added enough TRIBBLE yet, cause there's still folks showing up doing 1-2k DPS.
So what does that mean? PvP is going to continue to get worse...and worse.
Telling Cryptic to stop? It's how they're making money and keeping the game going, right? They're not going to stop.
* * * * *
Then it gets into discussions of limiting things, creating PvE/PvP duplicates of everything so it works one way in one and another in the other, eh? Where's the revenue in that?
Hell, as is...how many folks have complained about the stuff over the years while buying all the stuff anyway? Giving into the arms race...saying one thing on the forums but saying another with the wallet.
But say they were to put the effort into it, where is the money in it? It's a business...at the end of the day...things need to generate revenue, yeah?
Look at so many of the P2W F2P PvP games out there (yeah, folks will argue they're not - while pointing to the P2W tech trees.../facepalm)...it's kind of what's here, no?
B2P and P2P games...where there's money coming in....they can kind of avoid that stuff, eh?
* * * * *
Well, and then there's the subset of PvPers that won't touch PvE...they're not into it. Not their thing in the least. They're not even interested in the possible competitive nature of Competitive PvE offered by something like the DPS League. Imagine how something like that might come across otherwise, though, eh?
"We want balanced PvP. We're willing to spend on unbalanced PvE."
vs.
"We want balanced PvP. We don't give a TRIBBLE about the PvE."
* * * * *
It's all about money in the end. Not cause they're a bunch of greedy whatevers, but because it's a business.
* * * * * *
Find ways to monetize PvP or ways to generate revenue that can support PvP, eh?
Course, then you're going to run into all the folks that want PvP removed, yeah?
* * * * * *
Maybe PvP should have just been removed with the F2P conversion...
...it just doesn't go with where the game obviously had to go for the players the game was obviously going to attract.
And to be on topic, I saw Bort over there just a moment ago.
Lol...maybe instead of BoP League...should do Vo'Quv League with BoP pets? :P
Bort needs to level a BoP toon.
I'll bring my Recluse nanny!
It's like the old proverb about standing in the rain. If you don't want to get wet, get out of the rain. Cursing the rain for falling on you does nothing.
My character Tsin'xing
If they make the Vo'Quv Tier Six.
Give the new elite pets Beta.
Make all Boff traits cross faction and selectable. Cause you know I want 20% free critty goodness!
Five Tac Consoles.
Yah I'm there. And the Mirror ship Boff stations. Yah. I'm ready.
We should invite Bort to play with us. He said he was more into fun runs than parsing data anyway. Sounds like our guy.
See I talked about Bort. I'm on topic.
Going into an ISA...well, I'm expecting to have a shot at it - that everybody that's there is working toward completing it in some fashion. So when so many players show up with some other thing in mind...it rubs me the wrong way.
Doing a premade funrun sort of thing? Sure, that can be a trip - can be epic fun. But everybody's going in with the same expectations, yeah?
Heh, it's why I never got into the premade PvP thing...I never had any expectations of winning, so I was never disappointed if the team I was on were completely obliterated. Wheeeee!
And well, that's not something I believe Bort can address.
I think everyone is on the fun page, and Im fairly confident our failboats can make it a win.
I've read this entire thread, and keep coming back to see new posts as they appear. Because there's actually a good conversation going on... Mostly. Well, sometimes, anyway.
But commenting on the topics being discussed is a huge minefield for somebody in my position. I'm just gonna let you folks keep talking about it, and reading along.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
sorry Jeremy i couldnt resist .
Glad to see that you are still here.
Can you give us any pointers or specific guidance on what's the best way to get more interaction and/or positive changes coming?
Post here? Reddit? Twitter? What kind of information; theory crafting or hard numbers? Just the numbers, or video/screenshot evidence of what we're discussing?
Oh Oh! Did you follow my link to Billy Joel singing "Where's the Borticus?"
I giggled a little.
And to be on topic, 'See I told you I saw him."
And the BOP failboats did just fine, to anyone following that.
And to anyone still interested in Dev Interaction.
Have civil discussions and they will simply stalk you.
For interaction, buy a dog.
And who DOESN'T love dogs?
ooh ooh ooh!!! I found him!!!
Thanks for letting us know you're actually here
You've probably seen 1 or 2 or 9001 posts about the [PvP Dmg]/[PvP Res] mods out there with the R&D stuff. Do you guys have metrics showing that PvP folks are being all super secretive and buying those up - using them...etc, etc, etc?
Cause, it's hard not to picture that each time some crafted out there gets one of the mods...they're not driving another rusty pin into their PvP Voodoo Dolls with anger and frustration.
Is it something where either they could be removed from the tables or perhaps replaced with something else?
Just one of those things...that might - itty bitty chance and all...that might ease up some of the tension between folks on the forums? Just a thought...wondering about that and all...
I mean, theres so much in the game that is questionable at best in pvp, that we are looking at a substantial update to how some powers work and interact, and would require what I assume is a pretty big chunk of time.
Now, the pessimist in me says "Ya right, no way they are gunna take the time to update something they are trying their best to kill."
But there's always that half dead optimist that thinks " maybe they are adding all this new stuff, because they realize that there is something to still kill in the PvP community. That leaves the chance that maybe someone might change their mind about the whole PvP thing."
You mention this as if mines are somehow dangerous in STO.
Well. The space portion anyway. On the ground they're pretty badass.
Well that was refreshing to read, at least we know that despite all that this subforum has been through, you still look into it. I'm curious, what do you think of the levelless items idea and the change of plasma consoles? I'll repost it for convenience