More like I hadn't seen the picture in its entirety.
Given the information about 55-60, I'd say the problem is backloading all the XP to the top levels. Thank you for those numbers, with that I can give a better outline on how I'd handle it were I in charge. Here are teh XP totals I'd aim for. Note that the numbers before 50 might be inaccurate due to my not knowing the current totals. Also note that this assumes the amount total needed for 60 doesn't change.
pretty much yeah....its not the overall rate of leveling that's the problem, its the distribution....1-50 is obscenely fast....50+ is slowed to compensate....mostly cryptic was too lazy to normalize exp overall when DR first launched
And now there's a pile of missions backloaded to a level 60 prereq... they really need to redistribute the post-DR stuff to only have the most recent mission at 60. And lower the others each time a new one hits.
Sorry about the necro in the old thread, I've made a new one.
The speed is WAY (and I mean WAY WAY WAY) too fast. I only used my Doffs and did the story missions, and I'm Level 52 without even being done with the Cardassian storyline.
I think everything is too fast, truth be told. I feel like I only get to be a Lieutenant and other ranks for a couple of days real time before my next promotion. I feel cheated and cheap and I get to be a Fleet Admiral, the highest rank in Starfleet, at Level 60. Star Trek is not like [other] MMORPGs and shouldn't be thought of as one. I would personally suggest the following changes:
First, halve he amount of XP given by EVERYTHING. Mobs, missions, Doffs, everything. Halve it. Then you change the ranks a bit. For one, Rear Admiral Lower Half IS NOT A REAL RANK in STAR TREK, get rid of it and change it to what it's supposed to be according to the shows: Commodore. Then divide them as such:
In addition, there should be actual challenging quests for the promotions from Commodore onward. Keep the level limit at 60 for now, but the ranks above Level 60 can be used for further expansions in the future
Well that's where you hit the proverbial wall as far as leveling goes ill assure you that the rest of your leveling will be considerably slower.
More like I hadn't seen the picture in its entirety.
Given the information about 55-60, I'd say the problem is backloading all the XP to the top levels. Thank you for those numbers, with that I can give a better outline on how I'd handle it were I in charge. Here are teh XP totals I'd aim for. Note that the numbers before 50 might be inaccurate due to my not knowing the current totals. Also note that this assumes the amount total needed for 60 doesn't change.
The current totals are in the game and are readily available to you I would suggest that you learn the game a little bit before you go and make suggestions for the rest of us.
First, I'm female. Second, I'm actually completely serious and not baiting anything or anyone. I really am Level 52 and not even done with the Cardassian storyline (have one episode left in it).
I'm old school. I was born in 1980. I grew up playing Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and Ultima. D&D0, no hand holding in games at all, and true challenges.
Now the challenge is easy to get in this game by turning difficulty to Elite, but I still feel like I'm not EARNING anything. I gain skill points too fast and don't get to savor a new rank for as long as I'd like to. Level 60 doesn't feel like an accomplishment now because 1-50 was SO SO SO fast. For the first 20 levels, I gained one after every single mission. It just seems out of whack.
Why are people obsessed with speed now? Gotta do everything faster. I wanna stop and smell the roses. If the changes I suggested aren't good for all people, it should at least be a character option to halve skill point gains (or turn it off altogether). Even if the skill points don't change, I absolutely believe the ranks should. The current ranks make zero sense. Rear Admiral Lower Half is stupid and goes against canon, and Fleet Admiral at 60 just makes me think "too many cooks in the kitchen". Or maybe Advanced will be like now, with Elite giving 25% more.
Honestly, if I go deeper into my suggestion, I would halve skill gains on Normal mode, down 25% in Advanced, and current amounts on Elite since Elite currently doesn't really reward you extra at all (I ran the same mission on both Normal and Elite and there was almost no difference in the loot).
I'm older than you, and have played the exact same games. I also played the Atari 2600. I played original D&D, AD&D, AD&D 2nd edition, etc. I beat Dragon Warrior within a week of it coming out. Ultima, Quest of the Avatar was one of my favorite games. Now that we have our gaming pedigree's compared, let me tell you how wrong you are.
This game already has a load of difficulty. Personally, I find just surviving on anything not an engineer to be hard enough. I have DPS builds on everything and still die frequently. I watch others, and myself, comparably equipped, go from full health and shields to dead literally in less than a second. Difficulty isn't an issue.
There are questions to be asked. Did you start the character during the bonus experience event? If you did and worked on it later, that would be why it didn't take long. If you're running on a higher difficulty level, I believe it also gives quite a bit more experience as well as better drops.
I know without a special experience event, it takes me quite a while to level. Also remember, the Cardassian block is so long you'll die of old age before finishing it.
And now there's a pile of missions backloaded to a level 60 prereq... they really need to redistribute the post-DR stuff to only have the most recent mission at 60. And lower the others each time a new one hits.
doing it every time a new episode comes out sounds like a pain, but yeah, I would hope they do something like this eventually
This game already has a load of difficulty. Personally, I find just surviving on anything not an engineer to be hard enough. I have DPS builds on everything and still die frequently. I watch others, and myself, comparably equipped, go from full health and shields to dead literally in less than a second. Difficulty isn't an issue.
Er...what content are you talking about? Flying into a herd of Tac Cubes in HSE with FAW or the like?
And now there's a pile of missions backloaded to a level 60 prereq... they really need to redistribute the post-DR stuff to only have the most recent mission at 60. And lower the others each time a new one hits.
They really should just put all the post-Breen missions at 50. My only issue with the endgame leveling here is seeing that I'll have to put my feature story on pause for days/weeks at a time. Really not a fan of that.
First, I'm female. Second, I'm actually completely serious and not baiting anything or anyone. I really am Level 52 and not even done with the Cardassian storyline (have one episode left in it).
I'm old school. I was born in 1980. I grew up playing Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and Ultima. D&D0, no hand holding in games at all, and true challenges.
Now the challenge is easy to get in this game by turning difficulty to Elite, but I still feel like I'm not EARNING anything. I gain skill points too fast and don't get to savor a new rank for as long as I'd like to. Level 60 doesn't feel like an accomplishment now because 1-50 was SO SO SO fast. For the first 20 levels, I gained one after every single mission. It just seems out of whack.
Why are people obsessed with speed now? Gotta do everything faster. I wanna stop and smell the roses. If the changes I suggested aren't good for all people, it should at least be a character option to halve skill point gains (or turn it off altogether). Even if the skill points don't change, I absolutely believe the ranks should. The current ranks make zero sense. Rear Admiral Lower Half is stupid and goes against canon, and Fleet Admiral at 60 just makes me think "too many cooks in the kitchen". Or maybe Advanced will be like now, with Elite giving 25% more.
Honestly, if I go deeper into my suggestion, I would halve skill gains on Normal mode, down 25% in Advanced, and current amounts on Elite since Elite currently doesn't really reward you extra at all (I ran the same mission on both Normal and Elite and there was almost no difference in the loot).
Before the Trolls go on parade(too late), I think the OP is referring to the Delta recruit "enhanced experience". I agree, it is way to fast. For an alt char it is great. If you are new to the game, it is ridiculous. For instance, I have been trying to level my 59 Rom Tac to 60 for longer than it took me to get my Delta Klingon Tac to 54. Crazy. Once you have done the main quests, and even with new episodes and re-runs for gear, 59 to 60 is stupid long. Reminds me of grinding level 65 in EQ Planes of Power by killing giants for 5 hours straight. Just stupid.
That said, the VR equipment they offered at each 10 levels was wasted by the fast leveling.
I think, ideally, the Klingon arc should get you to Level 20, Romulan to 30, Cardassian to 40, Borg to 45, Breen to 50, Solanae to 52.5, Delta Rising to 55, and Iconian to 60.
I stand by my desire for a revamp of the ranks. Either split it away from the levels or look at my suggested ranks.
They want you to level to 50 as quickly as possible because they sell the most c-store ships, items(keys) at that level. Period. Unless you buy PWE yourself and finance them it aint gonna change.
I say is about 50/50. I don't mind having to level and working my way up to it. Cause it gives me a goal to reach. Where just giving me the level don't feel like I did something for it. Starting fresh with a new character shouldn't be bad to level. As you should be well into Lv50 by time you get to Delta Rising. My Romulan hit Lv55 by time she did the Romulan and Dyson Rep. So in a way it will seem fast. However if you was Lv50 and started Delta Rising. Where you did it all already. It will be a long slow process. This is what I found like the others. Granted I don't have lots of hours per week to play. So since Delta Rising came out, I'm still Lv59.5 on my Fed. And this is sharing my time to play KDF and Romulan some as well. So in a way I feel its been kinda a long process. However like others said. There isn't enough FE's to carry you through it. So you ended up doing the same missions over and over.
So here is how I break it down.
Good - Gives me time to enjoy my other ships as I used them on patrols. I got a ton of Delta Marks to use on stuff. It helps the RPing as it gives them time to use info from the latest mission. Then make a plan for the next one. So it give the idea they are working on a plan. And allows you to some side missions and patrols. Starting a new character shouldn't take long to get Lv60.
Bad - Starting from Lv50 is a long process. Repeating the same missions gets old. Took time away from me wanting to play my other lower level alts. Not enough FEs or some other new missions to carry you through the levels.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
it could be argued levelling is too fast, even with the slower climb from 50>60 it really doesn't take that long and once you get there whats left but grinding gear to replay qued content.
having said that many want the climb to be as quick as possible but personally I think its just right.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Seriously, I'm great with ideas, and I'd definitely listen more than they do. I'm great with ideas. Unfortunately, I've always been horrible at execution. Like, I'm a great storyteller, but a bad writer. I've got great game design ideas and great math skills, but programming is way over my head. It's frustrating. If only such a job ever existed for someone like me.
Like, here's an idea. You guys know the problem with cannons being outperformed by beams lately because of the drop-off in damage due to distance? Easy fix is to completely remove the damage drop-off, and it makes perfect sense because, well... dammit I can't control myself... OBJECTS DON'T LOSE MOMENTUM IN SPACE AND THEREFORE DROPOFF DAMAGE FROM CANNONS MAKES ZERO SENSE.
Sorry about that, I've been wanting to get that off my chest for days, and now that I finished the Cardassian arc, I feel revitalized. Makers I hate that arc so much. The Cardassians are annoying, the Bajorans are boring, the Dominion makes no sense, and the Founders are stupidly silly.
Er, sorry again, another thing I've wanted to get off my chest. I call for more Klingon, Romulan, and Undine! And does anyone remember back in the original game, in the Romulan story when you go to Hobus, there were these super powerful ultra hard energy beings, and I can't remember them for the life of me, but bring them back they were a real challenge!
I'll stop rambling now. Gonna go take a chill pill.
Yeah, here's to hoping that Cryptic/PWE gets their TRIBBLE together sooner rather than later.
it could be argued levelling is too fast, even with the slower climb from 50>60 it really doesn't take that long and once you get there whats left but grinding gear to replay qued content.
This is another way I see it as well. And kinda glad I'm not Lv60 yet. Those will be stuck doing nothing. Since only a few FEs are out. And having to do lots of runs on Kobali for the new Iconian marks.
However I like to work on my lower lv alts as well. So this takes time away from those. It can be viewed either way.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Levelling is a little fast. I started an alt yesterday and am already in the 30's by only doing story missions and a few doff assignments. Would be nice to be able to freeze xp for a bit to enjoy each rank for more than a couple of hours. All they need to do is add a freeze XP consumable that you can buy at starbases.
Eh. I was born in 1970. Grew up playing Ultima, Wizardry, SSI "gold box" D&D, Final Fantasy, etc.
And really, I'm tired of the people going all nostalgic for uber-grind, and throwing around complaints about "handholding" "dumbed down" and all the other silly stuff game forums are filled with these days. The stupidly-long grinds typical of Korean MMOs and the older games like Everquest (gotta form a farming group and farm that camp for hours & hours, dude!) are bad gameplay. They were never good, people just didn't have anything else.
Yeah, it does get a tad tiring getting the gamer version of the "In my day I walked up the hill both ways in the snow in a blizzard" rant.
I've never really understood the whole "got to max level, I'm awesome!" accomplishment thing. Guess it's just a different mindset. Doing interesting things in the game, and the things you get at certain levels (like a new tier of ships) is the interesting part, not what Big Number is tacked next to your character name. Max Level doesn't mean anything, the things you get from that level is what.
Well sometimes I might wait to play through the whole story on a fed character at endgame because it gives you the more authentic trek experience by not having to change ships every 10 story missions.
I see you don't know how to read. I said in the thing you quoted "keep the level limit for now and use the higher ones for future expansions". Literally RIGHT THERE. IN YOUR QUOTE.
Hmmm...complains of easy lvling yet has concocted yet another layer of pwn under the scorched earth OP...cleverly hides it in plain sight.
The gall.
Supplemental:
The Force is strong with this one...by Force I mean noob.
Really?
You still don't know what the grind in STO is all about yet you mapped out 61-100 in your STO Manifesto.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
I think the point is lost on some people when they go and say oh they want everything handed to them. The point with specializations is some people may only play around 1-3 characters and it makes perfect sense to them being the standard trinity of gaming these days molded from various games of the past where this is common place. However being that Star Trek has vast amount of species where people may want several species across say like myself over 20 characters the current way it was developed does not consider people like myself who may randomly play different characters if they don't feel its too grindy.
So in my case its just too overwhelming to even possibly do it on one character much less the others so I pretty much went from a 4+ year loyal every day grinding player to I stop by forums a couple times a week and then weekend hits and usually I don't give this game a single thought until its about over because there really isn't anything imo worth coming here for other than to talk to people I may know in community without having to patch up the game and find out it won't even let me on anymore lol.
I think the point is lost on some people when they go and say oh they want everything handed to them. The point with specializations is some people may only play around 1-3 characters and it makes perfect sense to them being the standard trinity of gaming these days molded from various games of the past where this is common place. However being that Star Trek has vast amount of species where people may want several species across say like myself over 20 characters the current way it was developed does not consider people like myself who may randomly play different characters if they don't feel its too grindy.
So in my case its just too overwhelming to even possibly do it on one character much less the others so I pretty much went from a 4+ year loyal every day grinding player to I stop by forums a couple times a week and then weekend hits and usually I don't give this game a single thought until its about over because there really isn't anything imo worth coming here for other than to talk to people I may know in community without having to patch up the game and find out it won't even let me on anymore lol.
I echo this sentiment.
I only log in when theres something good to grind for on my toon and featured eps.
I used play on the reg when i had 9 alts all semi geared with theyre own c store lockbox ships catered to their backstories ready to kick TRIBBLE...lvl 60 was tge end of that fun.
Sorry to say man but 20 chars? yeah that isnt healthy...not even in my addicted phase days of when i played WoW i had that many,and in that case you even had a ton more of different classes to choose from...here you have like 3...sad isnt it,what a great game this would have been in a sandbox format.
Sweet spot in this game is 5 chars,in my case 3 feds (one of each class),a romulan and a klingon.
More than that is insane and to be honest blaming Cryptic just because you have a problem is not the smartest way to prove your point nor even post it in the forums but hey if your 20 characters make you happy go ahead,im not judging :rolleyes:
This game isnt WoW tho. Here every species has their own quirks theyre own potential for backstory, deep and meaningful (while the original ******** original spec lore was famously written in one afternoon)
Hence the drive to play alts, with the lvl 60 spec grind. Us half rp / half hardcore players are left cold.
Ive since found another game that im intensely playing...
But it aint sto thats for sure.
I wanna play sto, but its not giving me an enviroment for that.
First, I'm female. Second, I'm actually completely serious and not baiting anything or anyone. I really am Level 52 and not even done with the Cardassian storyline (have one episode left in it).
I'm old school. I was born in 1980. I grew up playing Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and Ultima. D&D0, no hand holding in games at all, and true challenges.
Now the challenge is easy to get in this game by turning difficulty to Elite, but I still feel like I'm not EARNING anything. I gain skill points too fast and don't get to savor a new rank for as long as I'd like to. Level 60 doesn't feel like an accomplishment now because 1-50 was SO SO SO fast. For the first 20 levels, I gained one after every single mission. It just seems out of whack.
Why are people obsessed with speed now? Gotta do everything faster. I wanna stop and smell the roses. If the changes I suggested aren't good for all people, it should at least be a character option to halve skill point gains (or turn it off altogether). Even if the skill points don't change, I absolutely believe the ranks should. The current ranks make zero sense. Rear Admiral Lower Half is stupid and goes against canon, and Fleet Admiral at 60 just makes me think "too many cooks in the kitchen". Or maybe Advanced will be like now, with Elite giving 25% more.
Honestly, if I go deeper into my suggestion, I would halve skill gains on Normal mode, down 25% in Advanced, and current amounts on Elite since Elite currently doesn't really reward you extra at all (I ran the same mission on both Normal and Elite and there was almost no difference in the loot).
Being only part way through the story means nothing, it doesn't suddenly end when you hit 60 and you'll be spending weeks grinding spec points, all the enemies scale up with you at all times so its not like it suddenly becomes "easier"
While you of the older generation might want to dedicate your lives to a game, the younger generation prefer a faster lifestyle, hence mobile phone apps, ever faster computers and internet connections. We don't like wasting hours of our day with nothing to show for it.
With that said, I agree that 1-50 is a bit quick although the main offending area is 1-30, now if they made it so that each arc (including attached FEs) gained you one rank that might work better. Then we get to 50-60 which is waaaaaay too slow, by the time I got my three fed mains to lvl 60 I had no desire to play anymore. The main issue here though isn't that lvl 60 takes forever, it's that story content is level gated. When I play a game I want to know the story and I shouldn't have to throw away days of my life just to acquire the level needed to learn the next part of the story.
As for being level 52 during the Cardassian arc, I'm afraid that's your own fault for playing on elite. Even on advanced I'm only RA-LH going into these missions, on normal you're still only captain when you reach them.
Comments
pretty much yeah....its not the overall rate of leveling that's the problem, its the distribution....1-50 is obscenely fast....50+ is slowed to compensate....mostly cryptic was too lazy to normalize exp overall when DR first launched
Well that's where you hit the proverbial wall as far as leveling goes ill assure you that the rest of your leveling will be considerably slower.
The current totals are in the game and are readily available to you I would suggest that you learn the game a little bit before you go and make suggestions for the rest of us.
I'm older than you, and have played the exact same games. I also played the Atari 2600. I played original D&D, AD&D, AD&D 2nd edition, etc. I beat Dragon Warrior within a week of it coming out. Ultima, Quest of the Avatar was one of my favorite games. Now that we have our gaming pedigree's compared, let me tell you how wrong you are.
This game already has a load of difficulty. Personally, I find just surviving on anything not an engineer to be hard enough. I have DPS builds on everything and still die frequently. I watch others, and myself, comparably equipped, go from full health and shields to dead literally in less than a second. Difficulty isn't an issue.
There are questions to be asked. Did you start the character during the bonus experience event? If you did and worked on it later, that would be why it didn't take long. If you're running on a higher difficulty level, I believe it also gives quite a bit more experience as well as better drops.
I know without a special experience event, it takes me quite a while to level. Also remember, the Cardassian block is so long you'll die of old age before finishing it.
doing it every time a new episode comes out sounds like a pain, but yeah, I would hope they do something like this eventually
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
Er...what content are you talking about? Flying into a herd of Tac Cubes in HSE with FAW or the like?
They really should just put all the post-Breen missions at 50. My only issue with the endgame leveling here is seeing that I'll have to put my feature story on pause for days/weeks at a time. Really not a fan of that.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
Before the Trolls go on parade(too late), I think the OP is referring to the Delta recruit "enhanced experience". I agree, it is way to fast. For an alt char it is great. If you are new to the game, it is ridiculous. For instance, I have been trying to level my 59 Rom Tac to 60 for longer than it took me to get my Delta Klingon Tac to 54. Crazy. Once you have done the main quests, and even with new episodes and re-runs for gear, 59 to 60 is stupid long. Reminds me of grinding level 65 in EQ Planes of Power by killing giants for 5 hours straight. Just stupid.
That said, the VR equipment they offered at each 10 levels was wasted by the fast leveling.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
So here is how I break it down.
Good - Gives me time to enjoy my other ships as I used them on patrols. I got a ton of Delta Marks to use on stuff. It helps the RPing as it gives them time to use info from the latest mission. Then make a plan for the next one. So it give the idea they are working on a plan. And allows you to some side missions and patrols. Starting a new character shouldn't take long to get Lv60.
Bad - Starting from Lv50 is a long process. Repeating the same missions gets old. Took time away from me wanting to play my other lower level alts. Not enough FEs or some other new missions to carry you through the levels.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
having said that many want the climb to be as quick as possible but personally I think its just right.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
This is another way I see it as well. And kinda glad I'm not Lv60 yet. Those will be stuck doing nothing. Since only a few FEs are out. And having to do lots of runs on Kobali for the new Iconian marks.
However I like to work on my lower lv alts as well. So this takes time away from those. It can be viewed either way.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Yeah, it does get a tad tiring getting the gamer version of the "In my day I walked up the hill both ways in the snow in a blizzard" rant.
Well sometimes I might wait to play through the whole story on a fed character at endgame because it gives you the more authentic trek experience by not having to change ships every 10 story missions.
Hmmm...complains of easy lvling yet has concocted yet another layer of pwn under the scorched earth OP...cleverly hides it in plain sight.
The gall.
Supplemental:
The Force is strong with this one...by Force I mean noob.
Really?
You still don't know what the grind in STO is all about yet you mapped out 61-100 in your STO Manifesto.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
So in my case its just too overwhelming to even possibly do it on one character much less the others so I pretty much went from a 4+ year loyal every day grinding player to I stop by forums a couple times a week and then weekend hits and usually I don't give this game a single thought until its about over because there really isn't anything imo worth coming here for other than to talk to people I may know in community without having to patch up the game and find out it won't even let me on anymore lol.
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
I echo this sentiment.
I only log in when theres something good to grind for on my toon and featured eps.
I used play on the reg when i had 9 alts all semi geared with theyre own c store lockbox ships catered to their backstories ready to kick TRIBBLE...lvl 60 was tge end of that fun.
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
This game isnt WoW tho. Here every species has their own quirks theyre own potential for backstory, deep and meaningful (while the original ******** original spec lore was famously written in one afternoon)
Hence the drive to play alts, with the lvl 60 spec grind. Us half rp / half hardcore players are left cold.
Ive since found another game that im intensely playing...
But it aint sto thats for sure.
I wanna play sto, but its not giving me an enviroment for that.
They have my money already tho lol
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
Being only part way through the story means nothing, it doesn't suddenly end when you hit 60 and you'll be spending weeks grinding spec points, all the enemies scale up with you at all times so its not like it suddenly becomes "easier"
I see no problem here
With that said, I agree that 1-50 is a bit quick although the main offending area is 1-30, now if they made it so that each arc (including attached FEs) gained you one rank that might work better. Then we get to 50-60 which is waaaaaay too slow, by the time I got my three fed mains to lvl 60 I had no desire to play anymore. The main issue here though isn't that lvl 60 takes forever, it's that story content is level gated. When I play a game I want to know the story and I shouldn't have to throw away days of my life just to acquire the level needed to learn the next part of the story.
As for being level 52 during the Cardassian arc, I'm afraid that's your own fault for playing on elite. Even on advanced I'm only RA-LH going into these missions, on normal you're still only captain when you reach them.