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BUG REPORT:you broke traits with patch
agresiel2
Member Posts: 99 Arc User
So in an attempt to fix lag by sorting out certain ability's you have broken the traits of space combat.
two of the admin of the DPS channels (@Agresiel and @ukcaptain420) have discovered that the following traits activate WITHOUT having them slotted
tier 4 omega rep Omega gravition amplifyier
tier 4 iconian rep radiant detonation matrix
it took us 1 run to find this out really cryptic you still dont get people to do simple checks?
who knows what else has been effected
two of the admin of the DPS channels (@Agresiel and @ukcaptain420) have discovered that the following traits activate WITHOUT having them slotted
tier 4 omega rep Omega gravition amplifyier
tier 4 iconian rep radiant detonation matrix
it took us 1 run to find this out really cryptic you still dont get people to do simple checks?
who knows what else has been effected
MY SPEED RECORDS KASE: 13:38 CSE: 13:52 ISE: 13:51 HSE: 2:58 NWS: 6:35
Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
Solo STF's With Optional ISE: 3:34
i have all logs saved of these so if you would like to view them send me a pm and it can be arranged
Post edited by agresiel2 on
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Can you provide your Character@account names? Tracking this bug may require inspection of your character.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Bort, I just hopped on Meena@virusdancer - hit up an Archer System...
15:05:21:16:55:17.7::Meena,P[6727666@4209758 Meena@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Mesh Weaver,C[163 Space_Tholian_Frigate_Wall],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
Meena's slotted Rep Traits are:
Precision
Advanced Targeting Systems
Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense
Energy Refrequencer
I can also confirm.
Ran an ISA today, just checked the log - OGA was there for a whopping 148 dps (but it's not slotted.)
Vel@Jarvisandalfred
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
15:05:21:21:07:38.2::Ciaran,P[6728228@661830 Ciaran@Khamseen],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[11384 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
Slotted space Rep traits are;
Advanced Targeting Systems
Precision
Enhanced Armour Penetration
Enhanced Shield Penetration
Nosferatu@DaUnknownAdmin
Advanced Targeting Systems
Precision
Enhanced Armor Penetration
Auxiliary Power Configuration (offensive)
[6:55] [Combat (Self)] Your Omega Graviton Amplifier deals 751 Kinetic Damage to Quas Cruiser.
I'm 20 hrs away from the tier 4 iconian rep radiant detonation matrix, so I can test that later.
Character:
Aidan Vaako@onethousandsons
Traits:
Advanced Targeting Systems
Enhanced Armor Penetration
Precision
Auxiliary Power Configuration (Offense)
character 'Robert.' possibly also for 'Robbie'.
In this mornings public queue ISA I had both, small numbers but mentioned in the combatlog.
Maybe they are spilling from team mates.
pahajuju@pahajuju
"Use Temporal Skills to NERF EVERYTHING before it happened!" -Unknown source.
Vulcan has physical trait in the first slot i cant remove or change it
I'm curious about that. Has anyone seen this when NOT on a team?
Omega Graviton Amplifier
Radiant Detonation Matrix
Exotic Absorption
Predictive Algorithms
... as Traits that are currently applying without being slotted?
This appears to be a rather targeted bug, and not something that is affecting every Trait that was recently changed/updated to combat performance issues. Just want to make sure that all noted Traits are getting reviewed, to address the issue. So, is that all of them?
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Yes, virusdancer reported he had it happen in an Archer system patrol which I assume was solo. To confirm this I've just done a run in the Archer system solo and again I'm getting Omega Graviton Amplifier showing in my combat log even though it's not slotted.
Edit, for the record it procd 39 times during my solo run in the Archer system, so it appears pretty consistent.
What is your weapons loadout?
Can you tell if it's proccing from a specific weapon?
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Verified mine proced 30 times
It's not exactly a bad thing, but a bug's a bug I guess.
Solo'ed Starbase 24
[4:05] [Combat (Self)] Your Omega Graviton Amplifier deals 751 Kinetic Damage to Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey.
[4:16] [Combat (Self)] Your Omega Graviton Amplifier deals 751 Kinetic Damage to Negh'Var Warship.
[4:20] [Combat (Self)] Your Omega Graviton Amplifier deals 751 Kinetic Damage to Vor'cha Battle Cruiser.
Might be related to some ground traits being in effect without slotting them:
Orbital Devastation (turns Orbital Strike into Chasing Beam)
Subspace Manipulator (gives Dampening Field the dark blob)
Tactical Vigilance (modifies Tactical Initiative to give flank immunity)
The above modifications are always active even without the trait slotted. The difference with the OP is that the ground traits have behaved like this since their introduction in the game.
STO Screenshot Archive
On this character I currently have 3x Dual AP Beams, 1x AP Beam Array, 1x Quantum in forward and then aft I have 2x AP Omni Beams.
It's hard to tell which weapon it's coming from since most of the time I'm running BFAW. I'll try doing another test after I've had dinner and remove some weapons to see if I can narrow it to a specific weapon.
The reason I ask is that this proc behaves differently on Energy Weapons than it does on Torpedoes, and even stranger on Mines.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I already deleted that particular parse, though. Hrmm...can't see what weapons were firing there then.
Let me do another and see what happens.
Lol...just one again. 769 attacks, 3.904 attacks per second...and yep...1 OGA.
This is everything from that particular partial second.
15:05:22:16:55:03.1::Meena,P[6727666@4209758 Meena@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[1479 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Resonant Transphasic Torpedo - Spread Il,Pn.6cd4im,Kinetic,,5204.95,4202.26
15:05:22:16:55:03.1::Meena,P[6727666@4209758 Meena@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[1479 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:16:55:03.1::Tholian Recluse,C[1479 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Tholian Widow,C[1514 Space_Tholian_Fighter_Nodrop],T'varo Light Warbird,C[1483 Space_Romulan_Frigate],Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Shield,,-213.185,-247.89
15:05:22:16:55:03.1::Tholian Recluse,C[1479 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Tholian Widow,C[1514 Space_Tholian_Fighter_Nodrop],T'varo Light Warbird,C[1483 Space_Romulan_Frigate],Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Tetryon,,27.5433,275.433
15:05:22:16:55:03.1::Meena,P[6727666@4209758 Meena@virusdancer],,*,,*,Energy Refrequencer,Pn.1l2q1s,HitPoints,,-103.783,0
15:05:22:16:55:03.1::Meena,P[6727666@4209758 Meena@virusdancer],,*,,*,Energy Refrequencer,Pn.1l2q1s,HitPoints,,-116.773,0
15:05:22:16:55:03.1::Meena,P[6727666@4209758 Meena@virusdancer],,*,,*,Energy Refrequencer,Pn.1l2q1s,HitPoints,,-110.682,0
So the Resonant Transphasic caused that one...
...trippy that I still only got one. I have such crappy luck with procs.
Weapon Loadout, btw...
Resonant Trans, Resonant DHC, Polarized Disruptor DHC, Wide Disruptor DHC
Heavy Bio Disruptor Turret, Nanite Disruptor Turret
edit: As an aside...
Resonant Transphasic Torpedo - Spread Il
...er, typo? Cause it's Spread II.
Also Predictive Algorithms, even if i already qualified for the improved version (also not slotted).
Also i am able to summon Fleet Support at full health with only a 5 min cooldown. (also not slotted)
4 Vaad Arrays, Ferengi Rapid, KCB w/ some FAW2
Aha, got 7 this time...out of 949 attacks, 5.102 attacks per second.
Let's hunt them down.
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-983.307,-1591.12
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,Critical,280.786,1345.15
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Gravity Well,C[2332 Gravity_Well],Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Gravity Well I,Pn.Ca3ukc1,Kinetic,Critical,1388.23,997.583
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-421.58,-682.173
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Ferengi Rapid Fire Missile,Pn.Umb72p1,Shield,,-669.4,-4332.71
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,,120.383,576.717
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Gravity Well,C[2332 Gravity_Well],Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Gravity Well I,Pn.Ca3ukc1,Kinetic,Critical,764.742,549.544
15:05:22:17:23:25.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Ferengi Rapid Fire Missile,Pn.Umb72p1,Kinetic,Critical,764.596,3662.93
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-924.855,-1496.54
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,Flank,264.095,1265.19
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Recluse,C[2314 Space_Tholian_Battleship],Tractor Beam Repulsor III,Pn.Cpskyd1,Kinetic,Flank,2939.99,2112.68
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-761.702,-1232.53
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,,217.506,1042
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Tractor Beam Repulsor III,Pn.Cpskyd1,Kinetic,Critical,5845.07,4200.27
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Widow,C[2327 Space_Tholian_Fighter_Nodrop],Tractor Beam Repulsor III,Pn.Cpskyd1,Kinetic,Kill,3315.54,2141.39
15:05:22:17:23:28.0::T'varo Light Warbird,C[2317 Space_Romulan_Frigate],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2315 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Plasma Torpedo,Pn.Rm7fzt,Plasma,,214.277,153.98
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Mesh Weaver,C[2337 Space_Tholian_Frigate_Tractor],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Mesh Weaver,C[2337 Space_Tholian_Frigate_Tractor],Cutting Beam,Pn.Je69eb,Kinetic,,2051.13,1340.59
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Mesh Weaver,C[2337 Space_Tholian_Frigate_Tractor],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,,2125.29,1389.07
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Mesh Weaver,C[2336 Space_Tholian_Frigate_Wall],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-1124.98,-1815.87
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Mesh Weaver,C[2336 Space_Tholian_Frigate_Wall],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,Flank,320.447,1399.06
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-1908.63,-3088.42
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,Critical,545.015,2610.99
15:05:22:17:24:14.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:17:24:30.0::T'varo Light Warbird,C[2316 Space_Romulan_Frigate],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Disruptor Turret,Pn.H6u7d01,Shield,,-213.278,-225.453
15:05:22:17:24:30.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-1143.35,-1354.77
15:05:22:17:24:30.0::T'varo Light Warbird,C[2316 Space_Romulan_Frigate],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Disruptor Turret,Pn.H6u7d01,Disruptor,,39.7858,265.238
15:05:22:17:24:30.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,Flank,239.077,1421.91
15:05:22:17:24:30.0::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:17:24:30.0::,,,,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2339 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Plasma Torpedo - Heavy II,Pn.Tlxdjz,Plasma,,384.258,0
15:05:22:17:24:50.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Web Node,C[2414 Tholian_Web_Sphere_Segment_1],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,Flank,1094.81,0
15:05:22:17:24:50.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Web Node,C[2414 Tholian_Web_Sphere_Segment_1],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,Flank,1185.19,0
15:05:22:17:24:50.7::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Web Node,C[2414 Tholian_Web_Sphere_Segment_1],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:17:25:13.3::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2392 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Shield,,-847.315,-1371.07
15:05:22:17:25:13.3::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2392 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,751.4,0
15:05:22:17:25:13.3::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Tholian Orb Weaver,C[2392 Space_Tholian_Cruiser_Web],Polaron Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Zjssxq,Polaron,,755.647,1528.26
Based on that along with the Spread doing it for Meena...I'd say it's more than enough of a coincidence to suggest that the issue is somehow coming about from the use of Weapon Enhancement Abilities, eh?
Anybody had OGAs without an active Weapon Enhancement in play?
* * * * *
Wish I could remember if that initial one had been while I was setup with CSV/TS or CRF/HY...cause I'm wondering if it might be tied into the "autohit" component of certain abilities that wouldn't be there with others. Would need to take another run at it (but with my low number of procs in general, not having a proc wouldn't necessarily mean anything...meh).
Ah ok I see what you mean yeah. It appears to be happening with both beams and torps. I haven't used mines for a few years so not sure about those.
I think you're on to something here. After seeing your post I decided to try a few runs with just standard weapon firing (no buffs or boff abilities). Ran two runs to be sure, each with around 1200 attacks but not once did I get an OGA proc.
Then I ran with just BFAW II running as often as I could and I got 16 procs of OGA all coming from beams and only whilst BFAW was active. I then decided to try a run with just TS III and I got 10 procs in that run all coming from torps, again only whilst TS III was active.
15:05:22:17:18:50.9::Nosferatu,P[4028349@5698603 Nosferatu@daunknownadmin],,*,Nanite Sphere,C[20391 Mission_Infected_Healer_Sphere],Antiproton Beam Array - Fire at Will III,Pn.P00v8e1,AntiProton,,321.426,1786.94
15:05:22:17:18:50.9::Nosferatu,P[4028349@5698603 Nosferatu@daunknownadmin],,*,Nanite Sphere,C[20391 Mission_Infected_Healer_Sphere],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,1502.8,0
15:05:22:17:18:42.9::Nosferatu,P[4028349@5698603 Nosferatu@daunknownadmin],,*,Sphere,C[20386 Space_Borg_Cruiser_Raidisode_No_Loot],Antiproton Beam Array - Fire at Will III,Pn.P00v8e1,AntiProton,Flank,347.698,1894.04
15:05:22:17:18:42.9::Nosferatu,P[4028349@5698603 Nosferatu@daunknownadmin],,*,Sphere,C[20386 Space_Borg_Cruiser_Raidisode_No_Loot],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,1502.8,0
15:05:22:17:18:28.0::Nosferatu,P[4028349@5698603 Nosferatu@daunknownadmin],,*,Sphere,C[20386 Space_Borg_Cruiser_Raidisode_No_Loot],Antiproton Beam Array - Fire at Will III,Pn.P00v8e1,AntiProton,Critical|Flank,674.674,4089.33
15:05:22:17:18:28.0::Nosferatu,P[4028349@5698603 Nosferatu@daunknownadmin],,*,Sphere,C[20386 Space_Borg_Cruiser_Raidisode_No_Loot],Omega Graviton Amplifier,Pn.5jdccd,Kinetic,,1502.8,0
I think you may've nailed this, VD. We're getting some solid repro cases now. Though, I'll be honest, I don't understand HOW this confluence of powers could produce this result. Going to need a lot more investigation.
NOTE: This appears to only happen with Fire At Will. Which is SO uncommon, rite? :eyeroll:
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Hahaha, yeah BFAW is a totally underused ability. :P
Though just to reiterate my last post, I also got it triggering on use of torps when using Torp Spread. Haven't tested with High Yield.
I had limited my testing to Energy Weapons, but Torp Spread is actually built quite similarly to Fire at Will, so seeing similarly-bugged behavior is not surprising. Thank you for the additional info.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Ah yeah that'd make sense. No problem, hopefully you guys will be able to figure out why it's decided to work like this haha. I don't envy you that task.
edit: Saw you included the TS after I posted this...so er, yeah...lalalala.
With that last bit there, you guys didn't get any repro from TS or CSV? Just wondering if it's tied to the "autohit" aspect and some of the various problems that have come up in the past because of how that's treated like a hit even though it's not a hit. Kind of left it looking as if there were two flows there that had to be maintained...
The Hit version of "The Hit Code".
The AutoHit version of "The Hit Code".
Where there was that issue with the FAW double proc because the proc was still part of the Autohit version of that code...sort of thing.
And yeah, this is totally nub/outsider of me and all...but with the tweaking that was done and all, this almost looks like some sort of intellisense thing - where there might have been two similar words ActiveTraits and AvailableTraits (or whatever), and that perhaps if the code functions in that way or the like...that it's hitting up the Available instead of the Active.
Cause that seems to be the breakdown there. Cause that T4 Iconian Trait from the OP...neither of my guys have it, so it's not an Available - but the OGA, even though not Active - is Available to both of them.
But that's just totally nub/outsider - no clue - shouldn't be babbling along stuff that might end up being more of a distraction than helpful...so if you need to drop out the, "Yeah, uh...er...no....that's okay, thanks though." - heh, feel free to have at it. Wouldn't be the first time I've been on the wrong side of things there - and - I've done my fair share of eye rolls and facepalms from the other side...heh.