I was getting off and on very bad rubber-banding for the last month or so. This last patch fixed it for me. Just a sprinking of lag when I'm in a pve is all I get now.
Don't sit there and say "Well, I don't get lag, so there must not be any. It's on your end!", because it's not. If it were, then we wouldn't have so many people complaining about it, and entire teams suffering in the queues as a result. Accept that it is here. If it doesn't affect you, wonderful! Don't assume others aren't having issues.
That being said, they've already made what appears to be their first and largest push to fix the lag; reworking Command/Inspiration and a few other things.
But we've still got lag, and there's apparently a truckload of things that are contributing to it/need re-tooled.
We've already suffered for months now - how much longer should we except to keep having our gameplay compromised before we can (realistically) expect a lag free (or significantly lessened) experience? Maybe in the coming (2-3) weeks? Months? Longer?
Just out of interest didn't Neverwinters last expansion cause some major lag on that games side as well ?, and does Neverwinter still share a server with Star Trek Online ? or have they separated them yet ?. Reason i ask is when Neverwinter initially launched it caused much grief to the STO servers where the game crashed, lagged and rubber banded. STO that is due to Neverwinter
What i'm asking here is could another game with strain on its game engine with bad code sharing the same server as this game cause a ripple effect and interfere with the performance of STO were its game mechanics are eating up bandwidth. I'm not looking to blame Neverwinter here as Lag and Rubber banding are very real in Star Trek Online and has been getting progressively worse since STO's last expansion back in october 2014. I just looking at other possibilities.
Remember that not all lag is internal to the game. This is why its appearance and severity from player to player, or even session to session, is inconsistent.
Some lag may be a result of communications issues somewhere between your computer and the game server, and therefore may not be within Cryptic's control to fix.
Also - and I speak from personal experience here - if the game is pushing the limits of your computer's graphics capabilities, that can cause 'apparent' (visual) lag... low frame rates and such... that is limited to combat situations and while the gameplay actually proceeds normally. (I used to have problems running any of the 20-player PVEs, where the frame rate would drop to slideshow levels, then I got a new computer with a five-years-newer graphics setup, and the problem cleared up immediately.)
folks with brand new systems with state-of -the -art hardware are experiencing crashes to desktop ,severe lag, disconnects etc.
in addition : this only started to happen - to this extent - after S10 being (pre)patched , not before ( if everything stays the same exceptthe game's patch ,chance that update is flawed is 99.99 %) . I can run WvW in guild wars 2 - or participate in a big event in that game - without disconnects, crashes or severe lag .
folks with brand new systems with state-of -the -art hardware are experiencing crashes to desktop ,severe lag, disconnects etc.
in addition : this only started to happen - to this extent - after S10 being (pre)patched , not before ( if everything stays the same exceptthe game's patch ,chance that update is flawed is 99.99 %) . I can run WvW in guild wars 2 - or participate in a big event in that game - without disconnects, crashes or severe lag .
But a person's computer is only one part of experiencing lag. The various connections between their computer and Cryptic's servers is where a ton of lag comes from. State-of-the-art hardware means little if they are playing from the Arctic Circle.
But a person's computer is only one part of experiencing lag. The various connections between their computer and Cryptic's servers is where a ton of lag comes from. State-of-the-art hardware means little if they are playing from the Arctic Circle.
what I'm saying is these problems ( of this magnitude ) only started after they started to (pre) patch season 10 .I didn't experience one crash to desktop prior to that ..now it's every day and often quite simply by switching characters . Did my hardware change ? No.. Did my drivers change ? no ... did my connection change ? no .... etc.
the one thing that did change was the game itself .
Another part of the problem is that Cryptic is relying too much on a severely outdated and pretty crummy engine to begin with for STO. It's time they start updating massive portions of the old engine or they'll sucker into issues like this in every major update they push.
And yes, current lag is 100% the fault of Cryptic. Let's just say that my machine is fairly much lightyears beyond what STO's highest recommended systems are and I lag like hell. No graphical lag, purely server lag and there's a heck of a lot of people out there with the same issue(s).
Ball is in Cryptic's camp on this one I just hope they manage to get things running at a decent pace again BEFORE the summer event hits.
Another part of the problem is that Cryptic is relying too much on a severely outdated and pretty crummy engine to begin with for STO. It's time they start updating massive portions of the old engine or they'll sucker into issues like this in every major update they push.
And yes, current lag is 100% the fault of Cryptic. Let's just say that my machine is fairly much lightyears beyond what STO's highest recommended systems are and I lag like hell. No graphical lag, purely server lag and there's a heck of a lot of people out there with the same issue(s).
Ball is in Cryptic's camp on this one I just hope they manage to get things running at a decent pace again BEFORE the summer event hits.
pretty much this .. I gave the example of an event in Guild Wars 2 b/c anyone having ever played that game will know how crowded a map can be there ...zero lag ( let alone crashes to desktop or client simply freezing ,leaving no other option than ctrl>alt>del > end process ) . STO is an "antique " game compared to quite a few other MMO's ,yet is the only one with such a huge amount of bugs .It's a matter of priority and that means it's up to the management .
There are apparently multiple causes of server-side lag, one of which was the command powers, another is attack pattern beta. Another is probably those rift torpedoes that leave persistent swirly things on the map.
So it likely is not "a" fix that is required, it is a series of fixes and optimizations.
Remember that not all lag is internal to the game. This is why its appearance and severity from player to player, or even session to session, is inconsistent.
Some lag may be a result of communications issues somewhere between your computer and the game server, and therefore may not be within Cryptic's control to fix.
Also - and I speak from personal experience here - if the game is pushing the limits of your computer's graphics capabilities, that can cause 'apparent' (visual) lag... low frame rates and such... that is limited to combat situations and while the gameplay actually proceeds normally. (I used to have problems running any of the 20-player PVEs, where the frame rate would drop to slideshow levels, then I got a new computer with a five-years-newer graphics setup, and the problem cleared up immediately.)
That would have been true in other titles however here it's not the case. Their sister game btw admitted to the real reason they are having lag and have made statements about it being eliminated soon. This happened btw the moment they were put onto a console system which means that it's absolutely a game and server problem on their side. You don't get the same type of connections on console as you do pc and you certainly aren't dealing with the same communications issues on the hardware/software side of things.
NWO has made it clear it's their problem it's time for STO to take responsibility and fix it as well and it starts with them and everyone being honest about the real problems not being on the side of the players.
For example, on the PC side of things I've played all manner of memory/bandwidth hogs who've had blocks on central nodes take out whole populations, at no time ever has any of these other mmo titles out there suffered from the ongoing endless buggy lag and rubberbanding as experienced in NWO and STO. Never once. It's on there end trust someone who's been playing all manner of these online games for years. It's absolutely NOT the players.
My sources say the lag will end the day after the game shuts down forever.
...and TROLL. [end scene]
Given that Salami has already said there are currently three lists as long as the one in his tweet, and that page 1was 60% complete on friday, I'm hopeful.
Don't sit there and say "Well, I don't get lag, so there must not be any. It's on your end!", because it's not. If it were, then we wouldn't have so many people complaining about it, and entire teams suffering in the queues as a result. Accept that it is here. If it doesn't affect you, wonderful! Don't assume others aren't having issues.
That being said, they've already made what appears to be their first and largest push to fix the lag; reworking Command/Inspiration and a few other things.
But we've still got lag, and there's apparently a truckload of things that are contributing to it/need re-tooled.
We've already suffered for months now - how much longer should we except to keep having our gameplay compromised before we can (realistically) expect a lag free (or significantly lessened) experience? Maybe in the coming (2-3) weeks? Months? Longer?
We could always try eliminate LaG in the PvP queues? Good ol times
Or some interfleet haxorish!
/Serious mode
Really though, people should stop mixing up lag with performance issues. Realistically, and probably every big major update, both can and do occur. Sometimes it is noticable, other times it is not.
All the new traits, passives, and everything that gets triggered/calculated inside of a combat instance is not only calculated server side, but there is alot more the client has to process as well. An influx in client CPU usage/client bandwidth usage is usually a direct result.
As an example;
UI has always been a resource hog in this game, and every new passive or active ability that gets shovelled into the game with every new update will cause this particular issue to expand because the UI has yet more icons, (de)buffs to show and calculate.
And so forth for any other aspect in the game.
Now for the actual lag issues that the OP is refering to, yeah it is definately not client side as the client is not maxed out (cpu wise) and neither is my bandwidth, quick and simple conclusion is that the server can simply not keep up, or is having stalls. So basically it starts desyncing, not bad enough to cause a d/c in most cases as it can at some point sync back up...
The worst of all (for cryptic mainly) is that more and more users simply are fed up with it, and honestly for a new season release the usual (temporary) influx of players has not been as spiky as with the other major seasons/expansions. Steam says it, in-game channel count says it, its clear to me. Playerbase dropped to a very low number.
They should never have rushed this season so quickly, simple. Now they will feel it in their pockets and most likely compensate us in-game by restricting us even more, add more dilithium sinkholes, and more players leave because the game is even more demanding on our playtime. Its a vicious circle.
Realistic timeframe? Never.. No mmo will ever be truly lag free ever, even wow has lag issues for some people. The best anyone playing an mmo can hope for, and what they aim for is to limit the lag to an acceptable level. Unfortunately what is acceptable to some is not acceptable to others so it becomes an endless task, therefore never is the most realistic you will get.
That would have been true in other titles however here it's not the case. Their sister game btw admitted to the real reason they are having lag and have made statements about it being eliminated soon. This happened btw the moment they were put onto a console system which means that it's absolutely a game and server problem on their side. You don't get the same type of connections on console as you do pc and you certainly aren't dealing with the same communications issues on the hardware/software side of things.
NWO has made it clear it's their problem it's time for STO to take responsibility and fix it as well and it starts with them and everyone being honest about the real problems not being on the side of the players.
For example, on the PC side of things I've played all manner of memory/bandwidth hogs who've had blocks on central nodes take out whole populations, at no time ever has any of these other mmo titles out there suffered from the ongoing endless buggy lag and rubberbanding as experienced in NWO and STO. Never once. It's on there end trust someone who's been playing all manner of these online games for years. It's absolutely NOT the players.
While I agree with most of your post i need to point out that if as you say none if the mmo's you have played have had the lag issues this game has then you have been very lucky, I've seen lag issues far worse than this go on for far longer, for example swg used to have an area on talus where if you had more than a certain number of people in it would literaly crash the server cluster fir that planet, it was 100% recreatable yet for three years they didn't lift a finger to fix it.
So this post seems to have people, once again, trying to point the finger at those players who are impacted by lag caused by the game at a persons system/internet connections.
Step one: listen to the Priority One Podcast. Geko himself admits to having lag. He also states that the teams are working on it and it is a priority to them.
Step two: Look at SalamiInferno's post that are outline the 3 MAJOR issues and causes of lag seen by players. Not one of them said it is the persons computer or internet connection.
Step three: if you want to look at things from a diagnostic comparison, than you have to take into order EVERYTHING that a person has and every way they do things.
This means that because you don't have lag now that others don't who follow certain criteria.
Yes, this means building out a list designed for DPS orientated goals. Myself and a few others noticed lag starting right after the anniversary event. It continued until the end, which we hopped it would stop but it didn't for us. Than it grew until more and more people were impacted by the issue.
Sure DPS is only a small percentage of the people. But we are seeing these issues from ship traits, spec trees and other newer traits. Some of which are caused by hitting our old reliable anymore.
How many of you are ship collector's? Grabbing every new Cstore ship you can? Grabbing every Lockbox, lobi or promo ship you can?
I can promise you will feel the lag too if you followed a build exactly like mine or some of my fellow DPS members, and ran in groups like what we do.
Sure we can simply unequip the skills, stop using the new ships, change to an empty spec tree and once again play without lag. But really, why should we? Why should we not play with the skills and traits and trees that Cryptic developed for us?
And remember one thing, because we feel now, doesn't mean others won't later. Remember we pushed ourselves to get these things soon as we could to take command and hold up to certain levels of expectation in the DPS League. Anyone who continues to play the game after Level 60 to earn traits, trees and other things will eventually feel the lag creeping up on them. If something isn't done early before it becomes a larger issue it will only get complicated by future add ins, updates, expansions and other said items.
You should stop to think about what happens if you have one trait that is making a connection to the server every second, and then from there being sent out to the other 4-19 members that could be in your instance.
Then add in multiple traits doing this same thing from one person.
Then add in multiple people with multiple traits doing this. Command ships were just one part of the formula, they built up their skills based upon yourself and other ships in your instance doing things. And I see a lot of command ships around when I fly around doing things.
Need help with a mission to beat it? Visit http://pilotreviewshow.com to learn how we can help!
Cut out the flaming or a mod will likely close the thread.
This.
I really don't want to close this particular thread, but we're not going to tolerate continuing disregard for forum rules.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
'Cause, duplicate threads. We only need one thread to discuss lag issues and resolution of same, not counting whatever official bug reports are in the official bug forums.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Comments
Nerf the Iconian spam including all gateways and probes and the lag will be significantly reduced.
Don't sit there and say "Well, I don't get lag, so there must not be any. It's on your end!", because it's not. If it were, then we wouldn't have so many people complaining about it, and entire teams suffering in the queues as a result. Accept that it is here. If it doesn't affect you, wonderful! Don't assume others aren't having issues.
That being said, they've already made what appears to be their first and largest push to fix the lag; reworking Command/Inspiration and a few other things.
But we've still got lag, and there's apparently a truckload of things that are contributing to it/need re-tooled.
We've already suffered for months now - how much longer should we except to keep having our gameplay compromised before we can (realistically) expect a lag free (or significantly lessened) experience? Maybe in the coming (2-3) weeks? Months? Longer?
What i'm asking here is could another game with strain on its game engine with bad code sharing the same server as this game cause a ripple effect and interfere with the performance of STO were its game mechanics are eating up bandwidth. I'm not looking to blame Neverwinter here as Lag and Rubber banding are very real in Star Trek Online and has been getting progressively worse since STO's last expansion back in october 2014. I just looking at other possibilities.
folks with brand new systems with state-of -the -art hardware are experiencing crashes to desktop ,severe lag, disconnects etc.
in addition : this only started to happen - to this extent - after S10 being (pre)patched , not before ( if everything stays the same exceptthe game's patch ,chance that update is flawed is 99.99 %) . I can run WvW in guild wars 2 - or participate in a big event in that game - without disconnects, crashes or severe lag .
But a person's computer is only one part of experiencing lag. The various connections between their computer and Cryptic's servers is where a ton of lag comes from. State-of-the-art hardware means little if they are playing from the Arctic Circle.
what I'm saying is these problems ( of this magnitude ) only started after they started to (pre) patch season 10 .I didn't experience one crash to desktop prior to that ..now it's every day and often quite simply by switching characters . Did my hardware change ? No.. Did my drivers change ? no ... did my connection change ? no .... etc.
the one thing that did change was the game itself .
And yes, current lag is 100% the fault of Cryptic. Let's just say that my machine is fairly much lightyears beyond what STO's highest recommended systems are and I lag like hell. No graphical lag, purely server lag and there's a heck of a lot of people out there with the same issue(s).
Ball is in Cryptic's camp on this one I just hope they manage to get things running at a decent pace again BEFORE the summer event hits.
pretty much this .. I gave the example of an event in Guild Wars 2 b/c anyone having ever played that game will know how crowded a map can be there ...zero lag ( let alone crashes to desktop or client simply freezing ,leaving no other option than ctrl>alt>del > end process ) . STO is an "antique " game compared to quite a few other MMO's ,yet is the only one with such a huge amount of bugs .It's a matter of priority and that means it's up to the management .
no $$$ from me until it's playable again ...
So it likely is not "a" fix that is required, it is a series of fixes and optimizations.
We did eventually get the loadout fixes.
We did eventually get the account bank fixes.
The devs can and do fix things. Have hope.
That would have been true in other titles however here it's not the case. Their sister game btw admitted to the real reason they are having lag and have made statements about it being eliminated soon. This happened btw the moment they were put onto a console system which means that it's absolutely a game and server problem on their side. You don't get the same type of connections on console as you do pc and you certainly aren't dealing with the same communications issues on the hardware/software side of things.
NWO has made it clear it's their problem it's time for STO to take responsibility and fix it as well and it starts with them and everyone being honest about the real problems not being on the side of the players.
For example, on the PC side of things I've played all manner of memory/bandwidth hogs who've had blocks on central nodes take out whole populations, at no time ever has any of these other mmo titles out there suffered from the ongoing endless buggy lag and rubberbanding as experienced in NWO and STO. Never once. It's on there end trust someone who's been playing all manner of these online games for years. It's absolutely NOT the players.
...and TROLL. [end scene]
Given that Salami has already said there are currently three lists as long as the one in his tweet, and that page 1was 60% complete on friday, I'm hopeful.
We could always try eliminate LaG in the PvP queues? Good ol times
Or some interfleet haxorish!
/Serious mode
Really though, people should stop mixing up lag with performance issues. Realistically, and probably every big major update, both can and do occur. Sometimes it is noticable, other times it is not.
All the new traits, passives, and everything that gets triggered/calculated inside of a combat instance is not only calculated server side, but there is alot more the client has to process as well. An influx in client CPU usage/client bandwidth usage is usually a direct result.
As an example;
UI has always been a resource hog in this game, and every new passive or active ability that gets shovelled into the game with every new update will cause this particular issue to expand because the UI has yet more icons, (de)buffs to show and calculate.
And so forth for any other aspect in the game.
Now for the actual lag issues that the OP is refering to, yeah it is definately not client side as the client is not maxed out (cpu wise) and neither is my bandwidth, quick and simple conclusion is that the server can simply not keep up, or is having stalls. So basically it starts desyncing, not bad enough to cause a d/c in most cases as it can at some point sync back up...
The worst of all (for cryptic mainly) is that more and more users simply are fed up with it, and honestly for a new season release the usual (temporary) influx of players has not been as spiky as with the other major seasons/expansions. Steam says it, in-game channel count says it, its clear to me. Playerbase dropped to a very low number.
They should never have rushed this season so quickly, simple. Now they will feel it in their pockets and most likely compensate us in-game by restricting us even more, add more dilithium sinkholes, and more players leave because the game is even more demanding on our playtime. Its a vicious circle.
Soon(tm).
It's still plenty laggy for me.
While I agree with most of your post i need to point out that if as you say none if the mmo's you have played have had the lag issues this game has then you have been very lucky, I've seen lag issues far worse than this go on for far longer, for example swg used to have an area on talus where if you had more than a certain number of people in it would literaly crash the server cluster fir that planet, it was 100% recreatable yet for three years they didn't lift a finger to fix it.
Sto has it good compared to some games.
Step one: listen to the Priority One Podcast. Geko himself admits to having lag. He also states that the teams are working on it and it is a priority to them.
Step two: Look at SalamiInferno's post that are outline the 3 MAJOR issues and causes of lag seen by players. Not one of them said it is the persons computer or internet connection.
Step three: if you want to look at things from a diagnostic comparison, than you have to take into order EVERYTHING that a person has and every way they do things.
This means that because you don't have lag now that others don't who follow certain criteria.
Yes, this means building out a list designed for DPS orientated goals. Myself and a few others noticed lag starting right after the anniversary event. It continued until the end, which we hopped it would stop but it didn't for us. Than it grew until more and more people were impacted by the issue.
Sure DPS is only a small percentage of the people. But we are seeing these issues from ship traits, spec trees and other newer traits. Some of which are caused by hitting our old reliable anymore.
How many of you are ship collector's? Grabbing every new Cstore ship you can? Grabbing every Lockbox, lobi or promo ship you can?
I can promise you will feel the lag too if you followed a build exactly like mine or some of my fellow DPS members, and ran in groups like what we do.
Sure we can simply unequip the skills, stop using the new ships, change to an empty spec tree and once again play without lag. But really, why should we? Why should we not play with the skills and traits and trees that Cryptic developed for us?
And remember one thing, because we feel now, doesn't mean others won't later. Remember we pushed ourselves to get these things soon as we could to take command and hold up to certain levels of expectation in the DPS League. Anyone who continues to play the game after Level 60 to earn traits, trees and other things will eventually feel the lag creeping up on them. If something isn't done early before it becomes a larger issue it will only get complicated by future add ins, updates, expansions and other said items.
You should stop to think about what happens if you have one trait that is making a connection to the server every second, and then from there being sent out to the other 4-19 members that could be in your instance.
Then add in multiple traits doing this same thing from one person.
Then add in multiple people with multiple traits doing this. Command ships were just one part of the formula, they built up their skills based upon yourself and other ships in your instance doing things. And I see a lot of command ships around when I fly around doing things.
Top DPS 102k
This.
I really don't want to close this particular thread, but we're not going to tolerate continuing disregard for forum rules.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
'Cause, duplicate threads. We only need one thread to discuss lag issues and resolution of same, not counting whatever official bug reports are in the official bug forums.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
There's some tray lag doing ground, but its not severe.
Iconian Gateway ran well.
ISA, CSA was rubber banding.
I'm almost starting to think this is a cryptic conspiracy.
But I'm not that cynical ...yet.
Think ill lay off the stfs until salami can get a handle on it.