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[VIDEO] Inspiration to the Public PVE/STF Queues

snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
Hi All,

Thank you for dropping by this thread. 4 of us got together a few hours ago and decided to share our Inspiration across several Public (PUG) STF/PVEs. We did the following:

Infected: Conduit Advanced (Didn't make it into the video)
Khitomer Vortex Advanced
Federation Fleet Alert
Herald Sphere Normal
Battle of Korfez Elite

Link for VIDEO is HERE
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO5fm-XJZng

You can actually see in team chat in the Khitomer match that a PUG player commented on the Inspiration we brought! But we couldn't accept responsibility for it. We were just along for the ride! So keep an eye out for us in the public queues! I'm sure you will run into our inspiring team soon :-)

Live long and prosper.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • psych2lpsych2l Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It's no Bird is the word, but good song selection lol
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,366 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wow you may have convinced me to buy the ROM three pack on those Cmd. Cruisers.
    STAR TREK
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  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    thetanine wrote: »
    Wow you may have convinced me to buy the ROM three pack on those Cmd. Cruisers.

    It was a good display of what they could do wasn't it? :-)
  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So aside from demonstrating that the inspiration mechanic lags out the game something shocking, something most players who pay attention know already.....

    ... what was the point of this?
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    narthais wrote: »
    So aside from demonstrating that the inspiration mechanic lags out the game something shocking, something most players who pay attention know already.....

    ... what was the point of this?

    I thought the point would be clear. We are showing off our awesome Command Battle Cruisers as well as that most of us have completed Command Specialization trees which is something that most players haven't been able to achieve as yet. So this video demonstrates the awesome combination that the CBC and Command Tree bring to a PVE!
  • jaymclaughlinjaymclaughlin Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    snipey47a wrote: »
    I thought the point would be clear. We are showing off our awesome Command Battle Cruisers as well as that most of us have completed Command Specialization trees which is something that most players haven't been able to achieve as yet. So this video demonstrates the awesome combination that the CBC and Command Tree bring to a PVE!

    I've been focussing on maxing out intel. I can't wait to start on the command tree!
    animated.gif
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    I've been focussing on maxing out intel. I can't wait to start on the command tree!

    Better get cracking, Jay! Fleet Support with 5 min cooldown and call upon without taking damage!
  • jaymclaughlinjaymclaughlin Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    snipey47a wrote: »
    Better get cracking, Jay! Fleet Support with 5 min cooldown and call upon without taking damage!

    I need that!
    animated.gif
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    narthais wrote: »
    So aside from demonstrating that the inspiration mechanic lags out the game something shocking, something most players who pay attention know already.....

    ... what was the point of this?


    This is still speculation on the part of the player base.

    I fly Command Cruisers all the time, my main flies a Presidio, and I have an Alt that flies the Geneva and don't have any of these issues.

    If there is a problem with Command, it's related to the Command Skill tree, not to the ship mechanics. I don't have any points in command on any of my characters and I'm one of the people that has little to no problem with Lag.

    Everyone keeps blaming command cruisers, this is just a guess that someone had and everyone piled on. There is nothing that even comes close to proving that Command Ships are a source of Lag, neither is their Inspiration Mechanic. The only thing this video really proves is that the OP knows how to upload pointless videos to Youtube.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    This is still speculation on the part of the player base.

    I fly Command Cruisers all the time, my main flies a Presidio, and I have an Alt that flies the Geneva and don't have any of these issues.

    If there is a problem with Command, it's related to the Command Skill tree, not to the ship mechanics. I don't have any points in command on any of my characters and I'm one of the people that has little to no problem with Lag.

    Everyone keeps blaming command cruisers, this is just a guess that someone had and everyone piled on. There is nothing that even comes close to proving that Command Ships are a source of Lag, neither is their Inspiration Mechanic. The only thing this video really proves is that the OP knows how to upload pointless videos to Youtube.

    Hi there,

    There's no need to get personal now. Would you like us to demonstrate in game with the Intel Primary/Pilot Secondary on all players in queue? We would be happy to do so. I'm at @snipey47a
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    snipey47a wrote: »
    Hi there,

    There's no need to get personal now. Would you like us to demonstrate in game with the Intel Primary/Pilot Secondary on all players in queue? We would be happy to do so. I'm at @snipey47a

    Not getting personal, I insulted the video, not you personally. Please don't take it as a personal attack, it's not intended that way, and I'm sure your intentions are good.

    It's just silly that some random person guessed that Command Ships cause Lag and everyone piles on like it's gospel even though there is absolutely nothing to prove it.

    As for the offer to demonstrate, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If you showed another video with Intel/Pilot that still had lag, what exactly would that prove? The only thing it proves is that you have lag. That can be caused by any number of things.

    I'm not denying the game has bad code.. it clearly does. What I have issue with is that people just seem to accept that it's Command Ships causing it. No matter what video you show me, it won't matter because I use these ships on a daily basis without these issues. I know from personal daily experience that just flying a Command ship won't cause you to Lag.

    Are they part of the issue? Perhaps.. but nothing that's been submitted to this date proves that Command Ships have anything to do with Lag. If I put up a video of me playing the game and getting lag, it doesn't prove that the ship I'm flying causes the lag. It only proves that I indeed have lag. Obviously there is an issue, but your video in no way shows the cause.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    Not getting personal, I insulted the video, not you personally. Please don't take it as a personal attack, it's not intended that way, and I'm sure your intentions are good.

    It's just silly that some random person guessed that Command Ships cause Lag and everyone piles on like it's gospel even though there is absolutely nothing to prove it.

    As for the offer to demonstrate, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If you showed another video with Intel/Pilot that still had lag, what exactly would that prove? The only thing it proves is that you have lag. That can be caused by any number of things.

    I'm not denying the game has bad code.. it clearly does. What I have issue with is that people just seem to accept that it's Command Ships causing it. No matter what video you show me, it won't matter because I use these ships on a daily basis without these issues. I know from personal daily experience that just flying a Command ship won't cause you to Lag.

    Are they part of the issue? Perhaps.. but nothing that's been submitted to this date proves that Command Ships have anything to do with Lag. If I put up a video of me playing the game and getting lag, it doesn't prove that the ship I'm flying causes the lag. It only proves that I indeed have lag. Obviously there is an issue, but your video in no way shows the cause.

    Firstly my tracecert show that I have submitted here multiple time shows there is nothing wrong with my ISP or connection. I have an i& 5820k with GTX 970 GPU and ASUS ROG Extreme X99 Motherboard. So no problem there....

    My offer to demonstrate was for your to come with us into a STF so we can show you what we mean.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    It's just silly that some random person guessed that Command Ships cause Lag and everyone piles on like it's gospel even though there is absolutely nothing to prove it.

    As for the offer to demonstrate, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If you showed another video with Intel/Pilot that still had lag, what exactly would that prove? The only thing it proves is that you have lag. That can be caused by any number of things.

    I'm not denying the game has bad code.. it clearly does. What I have issue with is that people just seem to accept that it's Command Ships causing it. No matter what video you show me, it won't matter because I use these ships on a daily basis without these issues. I know from personal daily experience that just flying a Command ship won't cause you to Lag..


    What Snipey (and quite a few of us) are still doing is gathering as much information as possible on who does and doesn't experience server performance issues (colloquially known as "lag"), and see, under what circumstances, they do/do not suffer from "lag".

    Pretty much, we're inviting you to come play with us while we find out what you mainly do in the game and see if there's a correlation. Yes, we know that correlation != causation, but, given enough samples, we can narrow down situations and circumstances to see if there is an issue with the player(s), the ISP(s), Cryptic, or some combination of the above.

    Most of us doing this voluntary testing have years of various technical and professional experience w/ data centers, ISP's, computers, and IT in general. Unless otherwise stated, we have eliminated issues on our end, and barring any known inter-ISP issues, have worked out that our ISP and routing are not at fault up to a certain node.

    Good vid, Snipey.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
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    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    How truly inspiring! I enjoyed every minute of it. :)

    On lag, I do notice that I lag more with the DPS channel runs than I do with PUGs. That's one of the reasons why I run more with PUGs. There is something the DPS people are doing/running (traits, skills or interaction of them) that is lagging the heck out of the game. I'm not quite sure if it is the Command ships or spec that is doing it, just that it happens more often in DPS channel runs than in PUGs.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    there is really something wrong with this game; because this problem appears also without command ships in stfs. But when there are command ships, this is unplayable. the problem (in my opinion) comes from the specialization skills.
  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2015
    Good vid lol!

    GDB & Gprof, devs!
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    Dahar Master Mary Sue                                               Fleet Admiral Bloody Mary
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    snipey47a wrote: »
    Firstly my tracecert show that I have submitted here multiple time shows there is nothing wrong with my ISP or connection. I have an i& 5820k with GTX 970 GPU and ASUS ROG Extreme X99 Motherboard. So no problem there....

    My offer to demonstrate was for your to come with us into a STF so we can show you what we mean.

    But there are literally thousands of possible factors. For all you know, the Lag isn't even your fault at all. Maybe it's a combination of 1 trait you have and 1 trait that someone on your team has. That's just an example of one possibility, so to just say as a blanket statement that it's command ships causing it seems strange to me. I run a similar setup to you (4th Gen i7 @4.4Ghz, GTX 970, 16GB RAM) with a fast internet connection and I can fly a Command ship just fine. Our situations are similar and our results are very different. There are just so many possible factors.

    As for the offer to demonstrate, I appreciate it but I believe you. I am not denying you have Lag, I encounter it as well from time to time. Mine has been less severe, but it's been there at times. I don't deny there is a problem, I'm just questioning the methodology toward the assertion that it's command ships causing it.
    What Snipey (and quite a few of us) are still doing is gathering as much information as possible on who does and doesn't experience server performance issues (colloquially known as "lag"), and see, under what circumstances, they do/do not suffer from "lag".

    And that's perfectly reasonable. I'm all in favor of collecting information and trying to determine exactly what's causing it. The video came off wrong to me because to me it seemed like it was being presented as proof that Command Ships cause lag, and that's the part I took exception with. Your methodology is fair and reasonable.
    there is really something wrong with this game; because this problem appears also without command ships in stfs. But when there are command ships, this is unplayable. the problem (in my opinion) comes from the specialization skills.

    The worst problem I ever had with Lag was in a Federation Fleet Alert that had no Command Ships at all. Of course, I can't say rather or not anyone had traits from Command Ships going, but the ships themselves weren't there. I was flying a Phantom at the time, I have seen reports like this from players using all kinds of different ships.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • kerfokerfo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Was quite an amusing video!


    I've never had lag around my CBCs and stuff though. I even play with friends where we use Intel and CBCs and get no problems.


    I'm having a feeling though all the lag and issues have nothing to do with the new ships and mechanics, but more to do with everything going on. Every ability that's activated, every buff/debuff that activates due to whatever reason, every weapon that attacks, every damage that's taken, literally everything. That's probably what's lagging the game.

    I wouldn't doubt if anything that it's the game undergoing stress trying to keep up with everything going on at the exact same time. It certainly wouldn't be a new thing considering there are many, many games that have this issue.

    In fact, there are even RTS games I have played where no matter how good your computer was the game would start freaking out and having issues simply because it couldn't handle several hundred units moving all at the exact same time or even just the number of units existing at once (and it'd always freak out at a specific set number of units). The game itself simply just couldn't handle it.

    So, I wouldn't be surprised if this is STO's issue. Lots of new things are being thrown at it, we're getting even more abilities, buffs and debuffs and special toys to toss out at the same time. So, if you're doing all this testing for the sake of finding out what the issue is then perhaps you should also look there and do it in a closed environment.
    STO forum term definitions for newbies: Piloting Skill: That thing you do where you fly around and avoid big scary green plasma balls of death. Pressing F and spacebar may also relate to skill. Taco: A very sacred thing. Do not speak I'll of the Taco or things will happen. Terrible things! Humor: Something not found here. Don't bring it. This forum is serious business. Fun: Something illegal. Don't have it and don't bring it
  • sarcasmdetectorsarcasmdetector Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
    edited May 2015

    It's just silly that some random person guessed that Command Ships cause Lag and everyone piles on like it's gospel even though there is absolutely nothing to prove it.

    Looks like "some random person" was right on the money:
    Command Ships: Resolved an issue which was causing the Inspiration mechanic to heavily impact server performance.
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    Systems:
    • Command Ships: Resolved an issue which was causing the Inspiration mechanic to heavily impact server performance.
    • Inspiration will now always be generated at an improved base rate.
    • Inspiration gain rate improvement is no longer influenced by team size.

    For those who said they don't lag with their CBC ships, that was quite possibly the case because you didn't have many other server intensive things running off your ship. Eg: Compare your total flags to Corbin's...
    As for the offer to demonstrate, I appreciate it but I believe you. I am not denying you have Lag, I encounter it as well from time to time. Mine has been less severe, but it's been there at times. I don't deny there is a problem, I'm just questioning the methodology toward the assertion that it's command ships causing it.

    If there wasn't a problem the above would be in this week's patch notes. Our methodology is observation through 100 hundreds of hours of gameplay across all timezones and our own testing.


    Thank you, come again.
  • sarcasmdetectorsarcasmdetector Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    @snipey ... Ninja sniped! :D
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    Systems:
    • Command Ships: Resolved an issue which was causing the Inspiration mechanic to heavily impact server performance.
    • Inspiration will now always be generated at an improved base rate.
    • Inspiration gain rate improvement is no longer influenced by team size.

    Trendy,

    Please pass on our thanks for having this issue attended to. Although it may only be one piece of the puzzle for current system performance, we do look forward to seeing how much improvement this patch will bring to the game.

    Snipey47a
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    @snipey ... Ninja sniped! :D

    @#*!&!
  • kerfokerfo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Nice that it's getting fixed. We shall all be able to sleep peacefully at night now. Really though, it's good that it's going to be fixed (hopefully.) This game doesn't need more issues as it is.
    STO forum term definitions for newbies: Piloting Skill: That thing you do where you fly around and avoid big scary green plasma balls of death. Pressing F and spacebar may also relate to skill. Taco: A very sacred thing. Do not speak I'll of the Taco or things will happen. Terrible things! Humor: Something not found here. Don't bring it. This forum is serious business. Fun: Something illegal. Don't have it and don't bring it
  • sarcasmdetectorsarcasmdetector Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    kerfo wrote: »
    Nice that it's getting fixed. We shall all be able to sleep peacefully at night now. Really though, it's good that it's going to be fixed (hopefully.) This game doesn't need more issues as it is.

    it's not going to fix all the lag. The lag was there before the Command Ships where released, what the CBCs did was push it to truely unplayable levels.

    Think of this as pulling one tile out of a Jenga tower.
  • kerfokerfo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    it's not going to fix all the lag. The lag was there before the Command Ships where released, what the CBCs did was push it to truely unplayable levels.

    Think of this as pulling one tile out of a Jenga tower.

    That's where the last part of my statement comes in. :P Already got problems as it is, the CBCs causing stuff was just another thing to the list.
    STO forum term definitions for newbies: Piloting Skill: That thing you do where you fly around and avoid big scary green plasma balls of death. Pressing F and spacebar may also relate to skill. Taco: A very sacred thing. Do not speak I'll of the Taco or things will happen. Terrible things! Humor: Something not found here. Don't bring it. This forum is serious business. Fun: Something illegal. Don't have it and don't bring it
  • nh3rdnh3rd Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It will help some but will it resolve the issue as a whole? I seriously doubt it. I will wait for the end result before singing praises. Call me skeptical seeing as we have tried it with maylon cruisers and still lagged all to hell. Now it's spreading into the missions like a cancer. Foundry is about the only safe haven left to escape lag and when more start to figure that out I bet it follows shortly behind.

    Isp has a deadlocked 72ms ping to the servers. Only reason for this delay is ATT likes to route halfway through Kansas to connect with Cogen rather than through Kentucky. But I digress. The lag is to the point of unplayable no matter what ship I'm in solo or group. Trace route has no problem. Ping has no problem. ISP has said not their end. Remote pings yield the same result. Soooooo.... It stands to reason it has less to do with 1 particular ship tree or trait and more to do with server population and the need for a serious net code overhaul.

    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely hope ya'll are right, but I still doubt that this will be the silver bullet to solve all lag. If it does great, if not, dedicated server block is the next step.
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    [–]Borticus-CrypticKurland here! 11 minutes ago
    We recently were able to do some server profiling of the Powers system, and Inspiration was revealed as the far-and-away leader of the pack in terms of performance impact.
    But it was, by no means, alone.
    We're also having to clean up many other powers that in years-gone-by probably would not have been an issue. But as the game has matured, and players gain more and more access to different sources of additional powers (Rep Traits, Specs, Starship Traits, increased # of equipment slots, etc, etc.) it has really started to add up.
    In fact, we're going so far as asking our poor, overworked programmers (like /u/CrypticBatsoup) to create entirely new code paths so that we can lighten the load of certain types of powers on the back end, without having to re-design their functionality.
    Long story short: Inspiration changes should improve matters significantly, but it's not the end of the road. And we're going to continue improving things for many months and years to come.
    Also, Attack Pattern Beta was apparently the #2 culprit, as I understand it. So... consider laying off the Recluse spam? ;)

    Additional information that the Dev. Borticus-Cryptic just posted on Reddit.
  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    In relation to my previous post, this thread has been expanded on by Borticus. Here is the link:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/35voyv/star_trek_online_release_notes_may_14_2015/cr8bpk2
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