I just want to say that when I made this post, I was only commenting on the direction we've been going. I'm not *****ing about it (though as a grindie, it does hurt rather than help me).
But while all you out there are preaching of a dilithium sink on the horizon... What incentive does cryptic really have to add another one in? Fleets were one thing and we have been without a holding for awhile but...really, is there a reason to add a new one in?
And you don't gave to tell me about how it used to be higher. I was there when they first implemented the dilithium exchange. And believe me, at that time, I was thinking more about how I could get pay-stuff for free no matter what the exchange rate, and that was crazy!
I just want to say that when I made this post, I was only commenting on the direction we've been going. I'm not *****ing about it (though as a grindie, it does hurt rather than help me).
But while all you out there are preaching of a dilithium sink on the horizon... What incentive does cryptic really have to add another one in? Fleets were one thing and we have been without a holding for awhile but...really, is there a reason to add a new one in?
Yes, there is. Many people buy zen just to trade for dilithium on the exchange...when they actually have a need. As you said, right now there is not a need. But if they introduce another big need, then they will actually make money from people buying zen to trade for dilithium.
Back in the day, that was a steal deal. It used to be 600+ per Zen. You should be glad you don't need to pay that much anymore.
Dilithium for Zen? Hah, you were so lucky to even get Zen!
Back in my days, we didn't even get Zen for Dilithium. Every day at half past 3 in the morning we would be logged in by the lead designer beating us with a rolled up newspaper, and grind all day until 5 in the night just so that we got enough Energy Credits to buy one R&D component!
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Dilithium for Zen? Hah, you were so lucky to even get Zen!
Back in my days, we didn't even get Zen for Dilithium. Every day at half past 3 in the morning we would be logged in by the lead designer beating us with a rolled up newspaper, and grind all day until 5 in the night just so that we got enough Energy Credits to buy one R&D component!
Thanks, I hard actually forgotten much of a pain it was to get EC back them. I needed this reminder on how easy it is now.
Back then, all you needed to do was run a EC farm mission in the Foundry. The one I was running was easily 800k+ per run. Switch to a different character, and run that mission again. You could easily make millions per day, by that alone. You were only limited by how many characters you had. In fact, that method is how all of my characters came to exclusively use Lockbox/Lobi ships.
I bought my Odyssey bundle for 480 Dilithium Per Zen. You guys have no idea just how good you have it nowadays....
And eventually, the price came back down, just like it will this time.
People just don't understand that the price will always fluctuate. Cryptic has driven the price up by increasing the demand for Zen. First it was the Command Bundle, then the Iconic and now the Pilot Ships. Cryptic has done a very good job of putting out desirable items and pushing the demand for Zen to an all time high.
The last bundle that was so highly sought after was the Odyssey Bundle, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Vesta pack.
If Cryptic keeps on this schedule of releases and continues to make desirable ships the price won't be decreasing anytime soon. This all benefits Cryptic, so I'm certainly not counting on them to try and stop the trend. Eventually, the cost gets so high that people say TRIBBLE it and use cash instead.
Game desperately needs new dil sinks. My proposal is to sell spec points for dil in the dil shop. 50k per.
I still strongly disagree, but I wouldn't care if they did that. I of course, wouldn't spend 50k on a Skill Point, but if someone thinks that's a good value to them then hey.. go for it.
I still strongly disagree, but I wouldn't care if they did that. I of course, wouldn't spend 50k on a Skill Point, but if someone thinks that's a good value to them then hey.. go for it.
Instead I would : I am fine with grinding dilithium and / or mats but grinding xp is a pain in the TRIBBLE for me .
You would think that they would like it to go as high as possible, however they seem to actually be pretty responsible with the exchange.
For example they could have made upgrades cost zen tokens to instantly pop it to 500. The upgrades slowed down the climb for several months, however their power has waned. I think we were expected to upgrade A LOT more than we did - multiple sets on all characters etc...
Now there is little to stop the upwards creep. Perhaps they will add upgrading pets or kits. I dunno. But I believe they will take action when they see a falloff of players grinding. Then we will see a new sink added. To believe that the exchange is player driven is quite naive.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You would think that they would like it to go as high as possible, however they seem to actually be pretty responsible with the exchange.
For example they could have made upgrades cost zen tokens to instantly pop it to 500. The upgrades slowed down the climb for several months, however their power has waned. I think we were expected to upgrade A LOT more than we did - multiple sets on all characters etc...
Now there is little to stop the upwards creep. Perhaps they will add upgrading pets or kits. I dunno. But I believe they will take action when they see a falloff of players grinding. Then we will see a new sink added. To believe that the exchange is player driven is quite naive.
The thing is, they make money either way. If they put something in the zen store they obviously make money because people purchase zen to buy it. However if they have something require dilithium(like the upgrades you mentioned), plenty of people will say "I don't have time to grind" and just buy the zen to trade for dilithium on the exchange. So it is in their own interest to keep the exchange at a reasonable rate so people on both sides are contributing to the process.
It has been quite some time since we have seen the exchange so high. Some of us have seen it much higher and we may see it just as high again. It would be foolish of any one to assume to know the mechanics involved. It would also be counter productive to worry of the end times. With dilithium so easy to aquire with the current recruting event, it makes sense to me for the exchange rate to increase either on it's own or by manual regulation from a programmer. In time this too shall pass and we will have something else to talk about.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
You would think that they would like it to go as high as possible, however they seem to actually be pretty responsible with the exchange.
For example they could have made upgrades cost zen tokens to instantly pop it to 500. The upgrades slowed down the climb for several months, however their power has waned. I think we were expected to upgrade A LOT more than we did - multiple sets on all characters etc...
Having it hit the cap is the last thing they should want. If players were unable to trade at the fair market value (because fair market value exceeded the cap), that would seriously slow down trading and thus Zen sales. Few people would by Zen to trade, if they were forced to trade it underpriced.
And the company does not profit from high exchange rates. If a player needs 3,000 Zen to buy a ship, someone has to pay for that in real money and that price never changes. It's all the same for the company how long the player who trades dilithium for that Zen spent grinding for it. What matters is maximizing the amount of Zen bought and traded. That requires both currencies to be in demand.
As much as some people might say that they would buy more Zen to trade if it would get them more dilithium (and they personally might even do it), what a high exchange rate really means is that dilithium is generally seen as less useful. Thus, players in general wouldn't need to buy more Zen to trade for dilithium.
The ONLY way to 'stabilize' the Dilithium exchange would be for Cryptic or PWE or whoever to impose a fixed exchange rate. No matter what that amount is, SOMEONE will have an issue that it's too high or too low depending on their specific need or desire, not to mention all the doom threads about how they're trying to 'control' players actions and what they can and can't buy.
It's high time for people to simply accept, the DilEx fluctuates. Right now, Zen is in demand, new ships are out, people want to buy them. So people who have Zen are charging as much Dilithium for it as they can. When the demand for Zen goes down, the Dil/zen rate will go down too.
If you don't want to pay ~250 Dilithium per Zen,... well, there's always paypal and credit card. Don't want to use real money? Well, learn to save up or learn some patience,...
IMO, theres is no correlation to how much Dilithium can be earned in an event or weekend or bonus period or whatever,... because no matter how much you earn, you can only refine 8k per day.
Even if you have multiple alt's it's still only 8k per day refined and if you pull dil from alts to use on a main, then you're depriving those alts of the ability to use it.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Having it hit the cap is the last thing they should want. If players were unable to trade at the fair market value (because fair market value exceeded the cap), that would seriously slow down trading and thus Zen sales. Few people would by Zen to trade, if they were forced to trade it underpriced.
And the company does not profit from high exchange rates. If a player needs 3,000 Zen to buy a ship, someone has to pay for that in real money and that price never changes. It's all the same for the company how long the player who trades dilithium for that Zen spent grinding for it. What matters is maximizing the amount of Zen bought and traded. That requires both currencies to be in demand.
As much as some people might say that they would buy more Zen to trade if it would get them more dilithium (and they personally might even do it), what a high exchange rate really means is that dilithium is generally seen as less useful. Thus, players in general wouldn't need to buy more Zen to trade for dilithium.
Exactly! High exchange rates means less players are buying zen with money, which is bad for Cryptic and for Dil-grinders.
The high exchange rate is just a symptom that there isn't enough demand for dilihtium right now.
This will likely change in the future when Cryptic either adds a new fleet holding or another clever system which will enhance gameplay at the cost of our mountains of purple crystals...:D
Oh, as for a fixed rate? I can see the benefits of implementing such a thing, one price means things won't get prohibitively expensive when demand increases, though, it's generally bad for those who would sell Zen as it would mean longer wait times to get paid, Zen sellers would be less likely to sell Zen if they had to wait days, weeks, or longer just to get their dilithium...
If you skipped through all that the moral of this explanation is "Don't Panic, it'll work itself out in time." lol, Patience is a virtue... worth a shot, yes?
Exactly! High exchange rates means less players are buying zen with money, which is bad for Cryptic and for Dil-grinders.
The high exchange rate is just a symptom that there isn't enough demand for dilihtium right now.
Which is kinda ironic considering how many people complained about the cost of Mark XIV gear - and once you got a Tier 6 ship, you will likely itch out more gameplay advantage out of getting your gear to Mark XIV than trying yet another ship. So did they already pay off their upgrades?
Of course, maybe people are really in this for the space ship barbie game.
I sure am.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Which is kinda ironic considering how many people complained about the cost of Mark XIV gear - and once you got a Tier 6 ship, you will likely itch out more gameplay advantage out of getting your gear to Mark XIV than trying yet another ship. So did they already pay off their upgrades?
Of course, maybe people are really in this for the space ship barbie game.
I sure am.
Or dilithium isn't what limits the use of upgrade kits the most.
Which is kinda ironic considering how many people complained about the cost of Mark XIV gear - and once you got a Tier 6 ship, you will likely itch out more gameplay advantage out of getting your gear to Mark XIV than trying yet another ship. So did they already pay off their upgrades?
Of course, maybe people are really in this for the space ship barbie game.
I sure am.
I can't speak for everyone, but I have yet to upgrade most of my gear past mk XII, the cost of upgrading all my gear just isn't worth it right now, and I have no intention of trying to upgrade MK XIV Very Rare to Epic... I've tried it out and I am not going to be doing that until the chances to upgrade quality is improved. (ie. Likely Never)
Comments
But while all you out there are preaching of a dilithium sink on the horizon... What incentive does cryptic really have to add another one in? Fleets were one thing and we have been without a holding for awhile but...really, is there a reason to add a new one in?
And you don't gave to tell me about how it used to be higher. I was there when they first implemented the dilithium exchange. And believe me, at that time, I was thinking more about how I could get pay-stuff for free no matter what the exchange rate, and that was crazy!
Yes, there is. Many people buy zen just to trade for dilithium on the exchange...when they actually have a need. As you said, right now there is not a need. But if they introduce another big need, then they will actually make money from people buying zen to trade for dilithium.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
Click here to view my DeviantArt.
It's not so much we have it good, it's you overpaid by way too much!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
Click here to view my DeviantArt.
500 is the hard cap!
25 is the minimal lowest cap!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
You forgot the dealer who's pulling the strings .
... for whom neither zen nor dil costs a penny , but who works hard to separate you from yours ...
Dilithium for Zen? Hah, you were so lucky to even get Zen!
Back in my days, we didn't even get Zen for Dilithium. Every day at half past 3 in the morning we would be logged in by the lead designer beating us with a rolled up newspaper, and grind all day until 5 in the night just so that we got enough Energy Credits to buy one R&D component!
Thanks, I hard actually forgotten much of a pain it was to get EC back them. I needed this reminder on how easy it is now.
Now? I run that same mission, and only get 200k.
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
Click here to view my DeviantArt.
And eventually, the price came back down, just like it will this time.
People just don't understand that the price will always fluctuate. Cryptic has driven the price up by increasing the demand for Zen. First it was the Command Bundle, then the Iconic and now the Pilot Ships. Cryptic has done a very good job of putting out desirable items and pushing the demand for Zen to an all time high.
The last bundle that was so highly sought after was the Odyssey Bundle, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Vesta pack.
If Cryptic keeps on this schedule of releases and continues to make desirable ships the price won't be decreasing anytime soon. This all benefits Cryptic, so I'm certainly not counting on them to try and stop the trend. Eventually, the cost gets so high that people say TRIBBLE it and use cash instead.
I still strongly disagree, but I wouldn't care if they did that. I of course, wouldn't spend 50k on a Skill Point, but if someone thinks that's a good value to them then hey.. go for it.
Instead I would : I am fine with grinding dilithium and / or mats but grinding xp is a pain in the TRIBBLE for me .
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
For example they could have made upgrades cost zen tokens to instantly pop it to 500. The upgrades slowed down the climb for several months, however their power has waned. I think we were expected to upgrade A LOT more than we did - multiple sets on all characters etc...
Now there is little to stop the upwards creep. Perhaps they will add upgrading pets or kits. I dunno. But I believe they will take action when they see a falloff of players grinding. Then we will see a new sink added. To believe that the exchange is player driven is quite naive.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The thing is, they make money either way. If they put something in the zen store they obviously make money because people purchase zen to buy it. However if they have something require dilithium(like the upgrades you mentioned), plenty of people will say "I don't have time to grind" and just buy the zen to trade for dilithium on the exchange. So it is in their own interest to keep the exchange at a reasonable rate so people on both sides are contributing to the process.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
Having it hit the cap is the last thing they should want. If players were unable to trade at the fair market value (because fair market value exceeded the cap), that would seriously slow down trading and thus Zen sales. Few people would by Zen to trade, if they were forced to trade it underpriced.
And the company does not profit from high exchange rates. If a player needs 3,000 Zen to buy a ship, someone has to pay for that in real money and that price never changes. It's all the same for the company how long the player who trades dilithium for that Zen spent grinding for it. What matters is maximizing the amount of Zen bought and traded. That requires both currencies to be in demand.
As much as some people might say that they would buy more Zen to trade if it would get them more dilithium (and they personally might even do it), what a high exchange rate really means is that dilithium is generally seen as less useful. Thus, players in general wouldn't need to buy more Zen to trade for dilithium.
It's high time for people to simply accept, the DilEx fluctuates. Right now, Zen is in demand, new ships are out, people want to buy them. So people who have Zen are charging as much Dilithium for it as they can. When the demand for Zen goes down, the Dil/zen rate will go down too.
If you don't want to pay ~250 Dilithium per Zen,... well, there's always paypal and credit card. Don't want to use real money? Well, learn to save up or learn some patience,...
IMO, theres is no correlation to how much Dilithium can be earned in an event or weekend or bonus period or whatever,... because no matter how much you earn, you can only refine 8k per day.
Even if you have multiple alt's it's still only 8k per day refined and if you pull dil from alts to use on a main, then you're depriving those alts of the ability to use it.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Exactly! High exchange rates means less players are buying zen with money, which is bad for Cryptic and for Dil-grinders.
The high exchange rate is just a symptom that there isn't enough demand for dilihtium right now.
This will likely change in the future when Cryptic either adds a new fleet holding or another clever system which will enhance gameplay at the cost of our mountains of purple crystals...:D
Oh, as for a fixed rate? I can see the benefits of implementing such a thing, one price means things won't get prohibitively expensive when demand increases, though, it's generally bad for those who would sell Zen as it would mean longer wait times to get paid, Zen sellers would be less likely to sell Zen if they had to wait days, weeks, or longer just to get their dilithium...
If you skipped through all that the moral of this explanation is "Don't Panic, it'll work itself out in time." lol, Patience is a virtue... worth a shot, yes?
Which is kinda ironic considering how many people complained about the cost of Mark XIV gear - and once you got a Tier 6 ship, you will likely itch out more gameplay advantage out of getting your gear to Mark XIV than trying yet another ship. So did they already pay off their upgrades?
Of course, maybe people are really in this for the space ship barbie game.
I sure am.
Perhaps simplistic market analyses fail to take things like human greed into account? Just a guess...
Or dilithium isn't what limits the use of upgrade kits the most.
Now put that same person on life support and keep on pumping
I can't speak for everyone, but I have yet to upgrade most of my gear past mk XII, the cost of upgrading all my gear just isn't worth it right now, and I have no intention of trying to upgrade MK XIV Very Rare to Epic... I've tried it out and I am not going to be doing that until the chances to upgrade quality is improved. (ie. Likely Never)