The Dominion, maybe, but a Borg Faction would never be more appropriate than a Cardassian one.
Fortunately, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no one's opinion matters more than anyone else's. The guy who hates the Card faction is equally "right" as the guy who loves the Card faction.
That said, as a business Cryptic is going to cater to what the majority of their customers are going to pay money for. So if more people want a Card faction than a Borg faction, they are more likely to make the Card faction first.
Fortunately, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no one's opinion matters more than anyone else's. The guy who hates the Card faction is equally "right" as the guy who loves the Card faction.
Yeah, I get that, I was just stating that I don't believe a Borg Faction to be more appropriate than a Cardassian one, I mean, how can it? The Borg are a Hive Mind, and it would take a new line of thought for Cryptic to implement that.
Locally, the Cardassian Faction is the next step; they're the fourth empire introduced in Trek that we've enough background on. Further to that, the poll results (see here) seem to implicate the Cardassians as the favourites.
If there is a more appropriate reason to have the Borg, then I'm all ears.
I hear you. And FYI, my comments were more aimed at rezking's post than yours, I just quoted yours because it showed 2 differing opinions and helped illustrate my point.
Really, the solution is simple. Cardassians don't have enough to be a faction on their own, neither do the Dominion or the Breen. However combined they would be quite interesting. Remember the Iconian's are EVERYONES enemy, and that includes the Gamma quadrant.
So, have a Dominion Alliance faction made, players being able to choose from Cardassian, Jem'Hadar or Breen as initial races, then add Vorta and Changling as C-store playable races.
For ships, the solution is very simple. Don't use any of the ships from Lock Boxes or Q's Winter Wonderland. Leave them as they are, Lock Box and prize ships that Dominion Alliance faction players can get like anyone else so nobody is given the short end of the stick. Though to give them a little boost release the Gold Cardassian Lock Box for a limited time along with the Dominion Lock Box so they can get the old ships if they want.
In place of the OLD ships, have this new faction come to the table with all new ships, NEW ships. It's been 40 years, look at all the non canon ships the Federation, KDF and Romulan Republic have to play with, why would it be a problem for a new faction to have new ships?
And what would be the lore bit for why we've never seen these new ships? Well, again pretty simple. The only Cardassian's we've fought were True Way, who are terrorist using old junk that's literally military surplus. The only Jem Hadar we've fought were displaced for 40 years ago by the Worm Hole aliens, and the only Breen we've fought were Thot Trel's forces and it's unlikely he represented the bulk of the Breen military.
The opening video for STO mentions the Dominion rebuilding its forces, I say this is the easiest way to show it. Give them their own unique opening arc that merges into the main line like the KDF and Romulans.
All around this would take as much time and effort as the Legacy of Romulas expansion, done right it would be just as well received. Creating new unique ships would take some time, but there is again already something of an established pattern in place with the other three factions. (Avenger/Mogh varient, something with Quad (insert weapon type) cannons, etc).
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Really, the solution is simple. Cardassians don't have enough to be a faction on their own, neither do the Dominion or the Breen. However combined they would be quite interesting. Remember the Iconian's are EVERYONES enemy, and that includes the Gamma quadrant.
So, have a Dominion Alliance faction made, players being able to choose from Cardassian, Jem'Hadar or Breen as initial races, then add Vorta and Changling as C-store playable races.
For ships, the solution is very simple. Don't use any of the ships from Lock Boxes or Q's Winter Wonderland. Leave them as they are, Lock Box and prize ships that Dominion Alliance faction players can get like anyone else so nobody is given the short end of the stick. Though to give them a little boost release the Gold Cardassian Lock Box for a limited time along with the Dominion Lock Box so they can get the old ships if they want.
In place of the OLD ships, have this new faction come to the table with all new ships, NEW ships. It's been 40 years, look at all the non canon ships the Federation, KDF and Romulan Republic have to play with, why would it be a problem for a new faction to have new ships?
And what would be the lore bit for why we've never seen these new ships? Well, again pretty simple. The only Cardassian's we've fought were True Way, who are terrorist using old junk that's literally military surplus. The only Jem Hadar we've fought were displaced for 40 years ago by the Worm Hole aliens, and the only Breen we've fought were Thot Trel's forces and it's unlikely he represented the bulk of the Breen military.
The opening video for STO mentions the Dominion rebuilding its forces, I say this is the easiest way to show it. Give them their own unique opening arc that merges into the main line like the KDF and Romulans.
All around this would take as much time and effort as the Legacy of Romulas expansion, done right it would be just as well received. Creating new unique ships would take some time, but there is again already something of an established pattern in place with the other three factions. (Avenger/Mogh varient, something with Quad (insert weapon type) cannons, etc).
What only 5 races? BAH!
I'd also add in Tosk, Hunters, Wadi, Dosi, and Karemma. Granted, we don't know for SURE that all of them are members, but... we know they live in the area.
The Founders may be Xenophobic, and stuff, but as long as solids do as the Founders ask, they are happy to have them as servants.
I'd also add in Tosk, Hunters, Wadi, Dosi, and Karemma. Granted, we don't know for SURE that all of them are members, but... we know they live in the area.
The Founders may be Xenophobic, and stuff, but as long as solids do as the Founders ask, they are happy to have them as servants.
To be fair, Romulan expansion only got Romulans, Remen and Aliens ;P
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Hideki
Galor
Keldon
Cargo ship (Tuffli model already flying around)
Yea... I don't see it happening. Why is everyone obsessing over a Cardassian faction when they're A: Only allowed a small Defense Force, B: are pretty much a protectorate of the Federation, and C: their iconic ship is a LOCKBOX prize.
Same goes for Dominion. Their ships showed up in lockboxes. They only changed the name of the old Xindi Box to keep it from being confused for the current one. Other than that, NOTHING changed about it or its contents.
Changing the name of the Galor ain't going to solve anything, as its still the EXACT SAME MODEL and the ship was already in the first lockbox. Cryptic said they aren't going to release any faction specific stuff via lockboxes and admitted they shot themselves in the foot in regards to the Galor. They're already having to come up with T6 ships for three factions, now you want them to flesh out yet another faction with T1-6 INCLUDING equivelents to already released specialization T6 ships like the Command Cruisers, Intel ships, and the upcoming Pilot ships, as well as full on hubs, costumes, and faction specific weapons?
One problem: Can't use Phaser, Disruptor, or Plasma as those are already claimed. That leaves Polaron, Tetryon, and Antiproton. None of which the Cardassians EVER used in canon. Romulans can get away with Plasma because of Plasma Torpedoes and Disruptors were already claimed by the KDF. Cardassia just doesn't have the resources to stand alongside the Federatin, Klingons, and Romulans as a major superpower as they aren't a major superpower anymore. And giving this faction access to Spiral Wave Disruptors as their specific weapon is a slap in the face to everyone who got the lockbox Galor which unlocks the beam arrays.
The lack of canon ship examples did not stop Cryptic from making the Romulan Republic. The lack of canon ship examples did not stop other Star Trek game developers from making up new ships to flesh out Non-Starfleet lineups.
So lore wise... these Player Galors are NOT True Way ships, but in fact, surplus Cardassian Union ships.
mhm that makes sense.
As it has done with all lockbox ships as everything seems to be similar along the lines of "why" they are there in the first place.
Again, its entirely possible that all of that or just some of it will change to line up with a new faction.
This is why I dont take anything we already have at face value because cryptic have changed EVERYTHING they possibly can, missions, ships, weapons, lore... I mean they can practically do whatever they want so I always take these things with a pinch of salt.
The lack of canon ship examples did not stop Cryptic from making the Romulan Republic. The lack of canon ship examples did not stop other Star Trek game developers from making up new ships to flesh out Non-Starfleet lineups.
THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!
New faction doesn't need OLD canon ships. Everyone's advanced and updated after 40 years, even the Kingon's have new stuff lol
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
New faction doesn't need OLD canon ships. Everyone's advanced and updated after 40 years, even the Kingon's have new stuff lol
You are misinterpreting the post you are replying to. WM's point was that just because there are not a lot of canon examples of ships for a given faction does not mean the devs cannot create new ones to fill the holes. Your point seems to be that old canon ships are not needed at all. Those are 2 completely different points that have nothing to do with each other.
While I agree with his point, I disagree with yours, as many people want to fly the iconic ships of their faction. That is why the devs keep making new versions of the Galaxy/Warbird/Negh'var that still have those old skins.
You are misinterpreting the post you are replying to. WM's point was that just because there are not a lot of canon examples of ships for a given faction does not mean the devs cannot create new ones to fill the holes. Your point seems to be that old canon ships are not needed at all. Those are 2 completely different points that have nothing to do with each other.
While I agree with his point, I disagree with yours, as many people want to fly the iconic ships of their faction. That is why the devs keep making new versions of the Galaxy/Warbird/Negh'var that still have those old skins.
And they still CAN fly them, the same way everyone else can, by getting them from a lock box. The Galor is a decent ship, an ungodly zombie cruiser, but its main attraction is the Spiral Beam Disruptors, which are extremely powerful when used with the right build (there are two weapon sets that buff Disruptor damage for example)
Look at the entire list of ships, of the 480 playable ships currently in STO, how many of them are canon? For the Romulans only four of their ships are canon, five if you count the Scimitar hanger pet.
If you want to fly an iconic ship, get it off the exchange, not that difficult really, especially if you are willing to spend a little Zen to get things to sell on the exchange. Bug Ships are going for under 300 million now, the JHDC is going for under a hundred million and its still to date one of the best ships in the game.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
specifically how do you ensure that the lockbox ships retain their value while players are able to get those same(or very similar) ships for "free" when advancing through the ranks of a Card faction. With that issue in mind, how would you solve the lockbox problem?
Afaik they already lost their "Value" since most of them are not (even) T6, while new Lockbox Ships are basically Fleet T6 - so I don't think this requires "solving" ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Afaik they already lost their "Value" since most of them are not (even) T6, while new Lockbox Ships are basically Fleet T6 - so I don't think this requires "solving" ...
Could someone please tell me what makes a T6 ship such a massive improvement over a T5U? T5U have 11 consoles, T6 has 10, T6F has 11, but still to date not a single ship out there has 6 consoles for Tac/Eng/Sci, so at minimum a T6F can't do better than a T5U in any one thing.
They don't have more hull, most T6 ships actually have less than a good number of T5U ships, same with shields outside a few specific cases.
The only thing T6 ships have in their corner is the mastery trait and of those very few are actually worthwhile, less than 7 in total so far, not even 3 for Rom or KDF, or Hybrid Boff seating, and those are still very much in the air.
Until a T6 ship is able to knock the DPS crown from the Scimitar, they still aren't 'the best' out there
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
And they still CAN fly them, the same way everyone else can, by getting them from a lock box.
I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that if a Card faction happens, they *will* have the canon ships included in either the normal rank reward ships, the zen store ships or both. Whether you agree with that happening or not won't change the fact that it will. But look on the bright side; if you don't want to fly them, I'm sure no one will force you to.
Could someone please tell me what makes a T6 ship such a massive improvement over a T5U?
& stuff
Well you basically answered your own question & no I don't really need T6 ... wasn't the point, though ...
They already released the BUG as both T5 & T6 i.E. ... so I don't think they'll have a problem with T5U Lockbox Galor & T5/T6 Cardassian Galor ... just slap another Costume on it = Modus Operandi
Point Being : There don't really "value" uniqueness ... we have 2 Bugs, ~5 Voyagers, ~4 Defiants etc etc ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Well you basically answered your own question & no I don't really need T6 ... wasn't the point, though ...
They already released the BUG as both T5 & T6 ... so I don't think they'll have a problem with T5U Lockbox Galor & T5/T6 Cardassian Galor ...
Not exactly, I have both the JHAS and the JHSS, they fly very differently and have two very different roles. JHAS is better and simply killing things, flat out, nothing special no strings attached, just blows stuff up. JHSS is far better at crowd control and dealing with mobs (drop it in the middle of a group and it'll debuff the hell out of everyone in 10km)
It would be far better to make new ships so as not to royally TRIBBLE off those poor people who spent upwards of $500 to get some of those ships off e-bay. Besides it really wouldn't be that difficult, the Domiion, Cardassian and Breen all have very distinct looks and styles. Domiion ships look like insects, Cardassian ships look like stringed musical instruments and Breen ships look like chunks of shrapnel. Personally I'd love to see the graphic artist and designers let loose to have some fun again ^^
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
In place of the OLD ships, have this new faction come to the table with all new ships, NEW ships. It's been 40 years, look at all the non canon ships the Federation, KDF and Romulan Republic have to play with, why would it be a problem for a new faction to have new ships?
I like this idea, so long as the new ships FEEL like they where designed and built by the Cardassians, Breen and Dominion. Yes Cryptic has released many new ship designs for the three current factions and for the KDF and Romulans they feel like they belong. Unfortunately a lot of the new Starfleet ships do not have that. They don't scream "Hey look at me!! I am a ship designed and built by Starfleet!!!"
I would just hate for them to release these new ships and blow it. Cardassian ships should have that Egyptian/Gothic mix kinda feel. Dominion needs to be heavy, regardless of the ships purpose all Dominion ships just have this heavy "We are here to thump you" feel, even the bugs. Of course the Breen would need to be dark and asymmetrical, the kind of ship that no matter what angle you look at it from you just think to yourself "Huh?".
I like this idea, so long as the new ships FEEL like they where designed and built by the Cardassians, Breen and Dominion. Yes Cryptic has released many new ship designs for the three current factions and for the KDF and Romulans they feel like they belong. Unfortunately a lot of the new Starfleet ships do not have that. They don't scream "Hey look at me!! I am a ship designed and built by Starfleet!!!"
I would just hate for them to release these new ships and blow it. Cardassian ships should have that Egyptian/Gothic mix kinda feel. Dominion needs to be heavy, regardless of the ships purpose all Dominion ships just have this heavy "We are here to thump you" feel, even the bugs. Of course the Breen would need to be dark and asymmetrical, the kind of ship that no matter what angle you look at it from you just think to yourself "Huh?".
There will undoubtedly be plenty of new ship designs. But as with the current factions, many of these new designs will simply be modern takes on the iconic ships, and will probably have the iconic skins as options. Basically, just like these:
I like this idea, so long as the new ships FEEL like they where designed and built by the Cardassians, Breen and Dominion. Yes Cryptic has released many new ship designs for the three current factions and for the KDF and Romulans they feel like they belong. Unfortunately a lot of the new Starfleet ships do not have that. They don't scream "Hey look at me!! I am a ship designed and built by Starfleet!!!"
I would just hate for them to release these new ships and blow it. Cardassian ships should have that Egyptian/Gothic mix kinda feel. Dominion needs to be heavy, regardless of the ships purpose all Dominion ships just have this heavy "We are here to thump you" feel, even the bugs. Of course the Breen would need to be dark and asymmetrical, the kind of ship that no matter what angle you look at it from you just think to yourself "Huh?".
Exactly, like every other faction in the Star Trek universe, they have a very distinct look, a basic design that you can take one look at them and tell 'oh yeah, that's a (insert faction name) ship.' Even if you don't know the name, you know who made it.
The trick though would be how to balance out the three so that they are equal but also very different from each other. Cardassian's I'm thinking would be the factions 'Cruisers' while Breen would be the 'Science/Support' ships (like the Gorn for the KDF) and of course the Jem'Hadar would be the Escorts.
I will admit, knowing the Jem'Hadar can grow a new soldier in under two weeks would make me a lot less cautious about what I do with my Red Shirts...that aside, they would need to be unique and visibly have different play styles both on ground and in space.
Speaking of ground that does have me wondering if the Breen would need Eva suits, or if they already are wearing one...
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Speaking of ground that does have me wondering if the Breen would need Eva suits, or if they already are wearing one...
They would probably get one that looks similar to the suits they currently wear, but would be visually distinct enough you could tell it was for evas and not general wear.
The bigger question that is still unanswered, what do Breen look like?
They would probably get one that looks similar to the suits they currently wear, but would be visually distinct enough you could tell it was for evas and not general wear.
The bigger question that is still unanswered, what do Breen look like?
Just when I finally started to forget that mystery you had to bring it up didn't you ;P
Anyways if this does come to pass, I have high hopes that we'll at long last get to use the Kar'takin, best melee weapon in all of Star Trek
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Realistically speaking, there is probably going to be a Cardassian faction added at some point. However, one of the main issues that comes up whenever a Card faction is discussed is the problem of the lockbox ships, specifically how do you ensure that the lockbox ships retain their value while players are able to get those same(or very similar) ships for "free" when advancing through the ranks of a Card faction. With that issue in mind, how would you solve the lockbox problem?
There's no need to "maintain the value" of a cardy lockbox ship.
1. People who already have a cardy boat, from a lockbox are, obviously, not playing the "new cardy faction" and lockbox is how non cardy toons get cardy ships.
2. People who play a cardy, will get free ships as they level, but those ships, tier 1-5, will probably not be exactly the same setups as the lockbox ships anyway.
3. Lockbox ships do not have an inherent value that needs to be preserved, the 'book' value of a lockbox ship is 150,000 EC, if you can persuade somebody to pay more than that for a ship, on the exchange, because of what that ship is, or how it looks, well done.
They are worth only what people are willing to pay for them, if that isn't the high value you are accustomed to, tough.
All this assumes of course that a new faction WILL be cardy.
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
There's no need to "maintain the value" of a cardy lockbox ship.
1. People who already have a cardy boat, from a lockbox are, obviously, not playing the "new cardy faction" and lockbox is how non cardy toons get cardy ships.
2. People who play a cardy, will get free ships as they level, but those ships, tier 1-5, will probably not be exactly the same setups as the lockbox ships anyway.
3. Lockbox ships do not have an inherent value that needs to be preserved, the 'book' value of a lockbox ship is 150,000 EC, if you can persuade somebody to pay more than that for a ship, on the exchange, because of what that ship is, or how it looks, well done.
They are worth only what people are willing to pay for them, if that isn't the high value you are accustomed to, tough.
All this assumes of course that a new faction WILL be cardy.
Err, mate, you're off on your price by three zeroes. Cheapest Galor on the exchange is currently 162 million. JHDC is 95 million, JHHE is 157 million, JHAS is 372 million, JHSS is 487 million.
The only lock box ship you will ever get for under 50 million credits is a Mirror Universe ship or the Kazon Raider.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Well, a Cardassian faction like the Romulans would probably need a number of original ships. Only the Galor is affected. You might have it be that when a Cardassian opens the lockbox, they get a Fed, Klingon, or Romulan ship.
Or maybe add a cosmetic option unique to the lockbox ship and add cosmetic options unique to the standard versions.
I think Dominion faces more serious problems than any other prospective faction because it isn't just one ship in one lockbox.
My approach for the Dominion would be to give them a reverse carrier dynamic similar to Masterminds in City of Villains or to some extent Hunters in WoW.
Piloted Dominion ships would be new ships that lean towards being fragile and which command larger and more powerful ships. Or maybe you don't have piloted ships in the conventional sense.
You want to pilot a Dominion ship, you buy the lockbox ship. But the standard Dominion playstyle would be more RTS based either with a small (shrouded?) command ship flanked by bigger pets or some sort of remote overseeing of troops where you play as a Jem'Hadar First, Vorta, or Changeling directing a fleet of pets that are tougher than you.
Err, mate, you're off on your price by three zeroes. Cheapest Galor on the exchange is currently 162 million. JHDC is 95 million, JHHE is 157 million, JHAS is 372 million, JHSS is 487 million.
The only lock box ship you will ever get for under 50 million credits is a Mirror Universe ship or the Kazon Raider.
No, I'm not 'off' check the tool tip, the 'book' value for any item is whats printed in the tool tip, the price that gets halved if you sell to an npc, the prices things sell for on the exchange to players comes under 'worth what ever you can convince somebody to pay'.
If you and I both openhed a lockbox each and we each got the same ship that we didnt want, say a Vaad Overbuff Crusier with blue x'x insta death cannon, and you offered it for a market price of say 250,000,000, same as all the others, and had it returned in a week for not selling because there's 20 others selling the same ship for the same pric e, and I offer mine for 150,000,000, and it sells in 5 mins, what is the 'real price' then?
Goods are 'worth' only what people are willing to pay, if events change what people are willing to pay, that is 'market forces' and you deal with it.
If you've been hoarding cardy galors, to sell for 200 mil, and a cardy faction offers a better updated galor class free to cardy players, and all the cardy fans make new toons rather than buying your stock, bad luck, maybe you can get 99k for it.
Too bad, so sad...
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
So ? They don't have to release the hypothetical "Cardassian Faction Galor" with the same BO-Seating etc ...
PS : I seriously doubt "Dominion" & "Breen" would even be part of the new Faction ... since playing "the bad guys" is out of the question ...
the same could be said about romulans, but hey, look, they got a faction.
we don't need to play as the actual gamma quadrant dominion. we have our own dominion in the alpha quadrant, and they pretty much want nothing in common with the gamma one. the alpha quad founders just flat out want to be left alone, especially after they kicked laas out.
each of the dominion playables could have a short message saying that "this changeling is one of the 100, found by odo/laas/etc and became part of the new link" or "this vorta was deemed defective by the old dominion, but managed to escape and avoid execution" or "this jem'hadar was born without the ketracel addiction, which inhibited his reverence towards founders, not to mention it made him completely independent from the vorta"
the breen are bad guys now, but hey, so were klingons at the start. plus we have ones like dr. tran who wanted to get out from under idiot commanders and seek asylum.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Assuming there will be a cardy faction, theres a good chance the galor will only be a t4 MAYBE base t5 ra ship and chwnge the lockbox version to like.. Advanced true way galor or something. The faction would likely have a keldon as a higher tier equivalent for a levelling boat..
the same could be said about romulans, but hey, look, they got a faction.
we don't need to play as the actual gamma quadrant dominion. we have our own dominion in the alpha quadrant, and they pretty much want nothing in common with the gamma one. the alpha quad founders just flat out want to be left alone, especially after they kicked laas out.
each of the dominion playables could have a short message saying that "this changeling is one of the 100, found by odo/laas/etc and became part of the new link" or "this vorta was deemed defective by the old dominion, but managed to escape and avoid execution" or "this jem'hadar was born without the ketracel addiction, which inhibited his reverence towards founders, not to mention it made him completely independent from the vorta"
the breen are bad guys now, but hey, so were klingons at the start. plus we have ones like dr. tran who wanted to get out from under idiot commanders and seek asylum.
Sure true they could always shoehorn the Breen (& Dominion), into the "Great Alliance", but it would feel kind of wrong imho ... the Cardassians I could imagine, same with the Romulan "Refugees" ...
Besides the only reason for the Cardassian-Dominion-Breen Alliance was the Invasion of the Alpha Quadrant, they're not glued together ... the same thing happening twice ? ... "Those who don't know history yadda yadda" ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Comments
Fortunately, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and no one's opinion matters more than anyone else's. The guy who hates the Card faction is equally "right" as the guy who loves the Card faction.
That said, as a business Cryptic is going to cater to what the majority of their customers are going to pay money for. So if more people want a Card faction than a Borg faction, they are more likely to make the Card faction first.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Locally, the Cardassian Faction is the next step; they're the fourth empire introduced in Trek that we've enough background on. Further to that, the poll results (see here) seem to implicate the Cardassians as the favourites.
If there is a more appropriate reason to have the Borg, then I'm all ears.
I hear you. And FYI, my comments were more aimed at rezking's post than yours, I just quoted yours because it showed 2 differing opinions and helped illustrate my point.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
So, have a Dominion Alliance faction made, players being able to choose from Cardassian, Jem'Hadar or Breen as initial races, then add Vorta and Changling as C-store playable races.
For ships, the solution is very simple. Don't use any of the ships from Lock Boxes or Q's Winter Wonderland. Leave them as they are, Lock Box and prize ships that Dominion Alliance faction players can get like anyone else so nobody is given the short end of the stick. Though to give them a little boost release the Gold Cardassian Lock Box for a limited time along with the Dominion Lock Box so they can get the old ships if they want.
In place of the OLD ships, have this new faction come to the table with all new ships, NEW ships. It's been 40 years, look at all the non canon ships the Federation, KDF and Romulan Republic have to play with, why would it be a problem for a new faction to have new ships?
And what would be the lore bit for why we've never seen these new ships? Well, again pretty simple. The only Cardassian's we've fought were True Way, who are terrorist using old junk that's literally military surplus. The only Jem Hadar we've fought were displaced for 40 years ago by the Worm Hole aliens, and the only Breen we've fought were Thot Trel's forces and it's unlikely he represented the bulk of the Breen military.
The opening video for STO mentions the Dominion rebuilding its forces, I say this is the easiest way to show it. Give them their own unique opening arc that merges into the main line like the KDF and Romulans.
All around this would take as much time and effort as the Legacy of Romulas expansion, done right it would be just as well received. Creating new unique ships would take some time, but there is again already something of an established pattern in place with the other three factions. (Avenger/Mogh varient, something with Quad (insert weapon type) cannons, etc).
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
1. Create a free T4 Captian level Galor class, obviously not as good as the lock box ship.
2. along with the other existing Cardassian ships to be used at T1-T3, create/design all new T5 and T6 ones for the 25th century.
3. Revamp the lockbox Galor to make it more fitting as a desireable ship and to set it apart from the free ones for T1-T5.
I'd also add in Tosk, Hunters, Wadi, Dosi, and Karemma. Granted, we don't know for SURE that all of them are members, but... we know they live in the area.
The Founders may be Xenophobic, and stuff, but as long as solids do as the Founders ask, they are happy to have them as servants.
My character Tsin'xing
To be fair, Romulan expansion only got Romulans, Remen and Aliens ;P
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
The lack of canon ship examples did not stop Cryptic from making the Romulan Republic. The lack of canon ship examples did not stop other Star Trek game developers from making up new ships to flesh out Non-Starfleet lineups.
mhm that makes sense.
As it has done with all lockbox ships as everything seems to be similar along the lines of "why" they are there in the first place.
Again, its entirely possible that all of that or just some of it will change to line up with a new faction.
This is why I dont take anything we already have at face value because cryptic have changed EVERYTHING they possibly can, missions, ships, weapons, lore... I mean they can practically do whatever they want so I always take these things with a pinch of salt.
THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!
New faction doesn't need OLD canon ships. Everyone's advanced and updated after 40 years, even the Kingon's have new stuff lol
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
You are misinterpreting the post you are replying to. WM's point was that just because there are not a lot of canon examples of ships for a given faction does not mean the devs cannot create new ones to fill the holes. Your point seems to be that old canon ships are not needed at all. Those are 2 completely different points that have nothing to do with each other.
While I agree with his point, I disagree with yours, as many people want to fly the iconic ships of their faction. That is why the devs keep making new versions of the Galaxy/Warbird/Negh'var that still have those old skins.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And they still CAN fly them, the same way everyone else can, by getting them from a lock box. The Galor is a decent ship, an ungodly zombie cruiser, but its main attraction is the Spiral Beam Disruptors, which are extremely powerful when used with the right build (there are two weapon sets that buff Disruptor damage for example)
Look at the entire list of ships, of the 480 playable ships currently in STO, how many of them are canon? For the Romulans only four of their ships are canon, five if you count the Scimitar hanger pet.
If you want to fly an iconic ship, get it off the exchange, not that difficult really, especially if you are willing to spend a little Zen to get things to sell on the exchange. Bug Ships are going for under 300 million now, the JHDC is going for under a hundred million and its still to date one of the best ships in the game.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Afaik they already lost their "Value" since most of them are not (even) T6, while new Lockbox Ships are basically Fleet T6 - so I don't think this requires "solving" ...
Could someone please tell me what makes a T6 ship such a massive improvement over a T5U? T5U have 11 consoles, T6 has 10, T6F has 11, but still to date not a single ship out there has 6 consoles for Tac/Eng/Sci, so at minimum a T6F can't do better than a T5U in any one thing.
They don't have more hull, most T6 ships actually have less than a good number of T5U ships, same with shields outside a few specific cases.
The only thing T6 ships have in their corner is the mastery trait and of those very few are actually worthwhile, less than 7 in total so far, not even 3 for Rom or KDF, or Hybrid Boff seating, and those are still very much in the air.
Until a T6 ship is able to knock the DPS crown from the Scimitar, they still aren't 'the best' out there
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that if a Card faction happens, they *will* have the canon ships included in either the normal rank reward ships, the zen store ships or both. Whether you agree with that happening or not won't change the fact that it will. But look on the bright side; if you don't want to fly them, I'm sure no one will force you to.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Well you basically answered your own question & no I don't really need T6 ... wasn't the point, though ...
They already released the BUG as both T5 & T6 i.E. ... so I don't think they'll have a problem with T5U Lockbox Galor & T5/T6 Cardassian Galor ... just slap another Costume on it = Modus Operandi
Point Being : There don't really "value" uniqueness ... we have 2 Bugs, ~5 Voyagers, ~4 Defiants etc etc ...
Not exactly, I have both the JHAS and the JHSS, they fly very differently and have two very different roles. JHAS is better and simply killing things, flat out, nothing special no strings attached, just blows stuff up. JHSS is far better at crowd control and dealing with mobs (drop it in the middle of a group and it'll debuff the hell out of everyone in 10km)
It would be far better to make new ships so as not to royally TRIBBLE off those poor people who spent upwards of $500 to get some of those ships off e-bay. Besides it really wouldn't be that difficult, the Domiion, Cardassian and Breen all have very distinct looks and styles. Domiion ships look like insects, Cardassian ships look like stringed musical instruments and Breen ships look like chunks of shrapnel. Personally I'd love to see the graphic artist and designers let loose to have some fun again ^^
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
I like this idea, so long as the new ships FEEL like they where designed and built by the Cardassians, Breen and Dominion. Yes Cryptic has released many new ship designs for the three current factions and for the KDF and Romulans they feel like they belong. Unfortunately a lot of the new Starfleet ships do not have that. They don't scream "Hey look at me!! I am a ship designed and built by Starfleet!!!"
I would just hate for them to release these new ships and blow it. Cardassian ships should have that Egyptian/Gothic mix kinda feel. Dominion needs to be heavy, regardless of the ships purpose all Dominion ships just have this heavy "We are here to thump you" feel, even the bugs. Of course the Breen would need to be dark and asymmetrical, the kind of ship that no matter what angle you look at it from you just think to yourself "Huh?".
So ? They don't have to release the hypothetical "Cardassian Faction Galor" with the same BO-Seating etc ...
PS : I seriously doubt "Dominion" & "Breen" would even be part of the new Faction ... since playing "the bad guys" is out of the question ...
There will undoubtedly be plenty of new ship designs. But as with the current factions, many of these new designs will simply be modern takes on the iconic ships, and will probably have the iconic skins as options. Basically, just like these:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9126203-tier-6-iconic-ship-stats
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Exactly, like every other faction in the Star Trek universe, they have a very distinct look, a basic design that you can take one look at them and tell 'oh yeah, that's a (insert faction name) ship.' Even if you don't know the name, you know who made it.
The trick though would be how to balance out the three so that they are equal but also very different from each other. Cardassian's I'm thinking would be the factions 'Cruisers' while Breen would be the 'Science/Support' ships (like the Gorn for the KDF) and of course the Jem'Hadar would be the Escorts.
I will admit, knowing the Jem'Hadar can grow a new soldier in under two weeks would make me a lot less cautious about what I do with my Red Shirts...that aside, they would need to be unique and visibly have different play styles both on ground and in space.
Speaking of ground that does have me wondering if the Breen would need Eva suits, or if they already are wearing one...
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
They would probably get one that looks similar to the suits they currently wear, but would be visually distinct enough you could tell it was for evas and not general wear.
The bigger question that is still unanswered, what do Breen look like?
Just when I finally started to forget that mystery you had to bring it up didn't you ;P
Anyways if this does come to pass, I have high hopes that we'll at long last get to use the Kar'takin, best melee weapon in all of Star Trek
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
There's no need to "maintain the value" of a cardy lockbox ship.
1. People who already have a cardy boat, from a lockbox are, obviously, not playing the "new cardy faction" and lockbox is how non cardy toons get cardy ships.
2. People who play a cardy, will get free ships as they level, but those ships, tier 1-5, will probably not be exactly the same setups as the lockbox ships anyway.
3. Lockbox ships do not have an inherent value that needs to be preserved, the 'book' value of a lockbox ship is 150,000 EC, if you can persuade somebody to pay more than that for a ship, on the exchange, because of what that ship is, or how it looks, well done.
They are worth only what people are willing to pay for them, if that isn't the high value you are accustomed to, tough.
All this assumes of course that a new faction WILL be cardy.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
Err, mate, you're off on your price by three zeroes. Cheapest Galor on the exchange is currently 162 million. JHDC is 95 million, JHHE is 157 million, JHAS is 372 million, JHSS is 487 million.
The only lock box ship you will ever get for under 50 million credits is a Mirror Universe ship or the Kazon Raider.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Or maybe add a cosmetic option unique to the lockbox ship and add cosmetic options unique to the standard versions.
I think Dominion faces more serious problems than any other prospective faction because it isn't just one ship in one lockbox.
My approach for the Dominion would be to give them a reverse carrier dynamic similar to Masterminds in City of Villains or to some extent Hunters in WoW.
Piloted Dominion ships would be new ships that lean towards being fragile and which command larger and more powerful ships. Or maybe you don't have piloted ships in the conventional sense.
You want to pilot a Dominion ship, you buy the lockbox ship. But the standard Dominion playstyle would be more RTS based either with a small (shrouded?) command ship flanked by bigger pets or some sort of remote overseeing of troops where you play as a Jem'Hadar First, Vorta, or Changeling directing a fleet of pets that are tougher than you.
No, I'm not 'off' check the tool tip, the 'book' value for any item is whats printed in the tool tip, the price that gets halved if you sell to an npc, the prices things sell for on the exchange to players comes under 'worth what ever you can convince somebody to pay'.
If you and I both openhed a lockbox each and we each got the same ship that we didnt want, say a Vaad Overbuff Crusier with blue x'x insta death cannon, and you offered it for a market price of say 250,000,000, same as all the others, and had it returned in a week for not selling because there's 20 others selling the same ship for the same pric e, and I offer mine for 150,000,000, and it sells in 5 mins, what is the 'real price' then?
Goods are 'worth' only what people are willing to pay, if events change what people are willing to pay, that is 'market forces' and you deal with it.
If you've been hoarding cardy galors, to sell for 200 mil, and a cardy faction offers a better updated galor class free to cardy players, and all the cardy fans make new toons rather than buying your stock, bad luck, maybe you can get 99k for it.
Too bad, so sad...
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
we don't need to play as the actual gamma quadrant dominion. we have our own dominion in the alpha quadrant, and they pretty much want nothing in common with the gamma one. the alpha quad founders just flat out want to be left alone, especially after they kicked laas out.
each of the dominion playables could have a short message saying that "this changeling is one of the 100, found by odo/laas/etc and became part of the new link" or "this vorta was deemed defective by the old dominion, but managed to escape and avoid execution" or "this jem'hadar was born without the ketracel addiction, which inhibited his reverence towards founders, not to mention it made him completely independent from the vorta"
the breen are bad guys now, but hey, so were klingons at the start. plus we have ones like dr. tran who wanted to get out from under idiot commanders and seek asylum.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Sure true they could always shoehorn the Breen (& Dominion), into the "Great Alliance", but it would feel kind of wrong imho ... the Cardassians I could imagine, same with the Romulan "Refugees" ...
Besides the only reason for the Cardassian-Dominion-Breen Alliance was the Invasion of the Alpha Quadrant, they're not glued together ... the same thing happening twice ? ... "Those who don't know history yadda yadda" ...