Chanting the Klingon Anthem, playing dirty and shouting "Die, to'Ba! Eat lead, you insufferable PetaQ!" and other such phrases at my enemies as I plow through them with a batleth. Qapla'!
Rebuttal: Said Federation starship captain was basically a low-ranking officer on a baby-sitting assignment in a Miranda-class, a ship that's been outdated since the 2360s. The Klingons thought they could kill two birds with one stone by killing the Undine AND wiping out a Federation ship, thus leaving one less ship to worry about in the war. The thing they didn't count on was your character having plot armor/being a total badass despite being a Lieutenant in charge of the equivalent of a PT boat.
Then why did the Klingons bother talking first instead of just coming out firing? :P
Sorry. Either they're easily offended stupid warmongers, or they're horrible tacticians. Either way, they died because they were stupid; the PC's plot armor had nothing to do with it. Just like every other Klingon who got himself killed for J'mpok's poorly disguised land-grab.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
you already posted once on page 3 i think basically stating how much you dislike the kdf and its game play and being forced to commit so called war crimes. even though you play as a hired Lethean Merc. ok fine you made your statement of what it means to you. the trolling comes in when you start ranting yet again about how dumb the kdf is and quoting the in game lore info. which was not the question from the original post.
Yes, it is the answer to the question in the OP. It may not be the answer you wanted, it may not be the answer you expected, but guess what? It's the answer you're getting. Playing KDF means playing as the Iconians' unwitting catspaws, just like the Undine J'mpok claimed to be fighting against. Just like Gowron did for the Dominion.
And it means fighting under an illegitimate, dishonest, dishonorable petaQ named J'mpok. That's the reality of the faction when you strip away the lies, propaganda, and self-delusion.
You made your bed. Lie in it.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'm a fan of the KDF more and more now. I dreaded going through the Romulan arc of the game because on the Fed side, they just powened me in combat, but since I discovered the joy of crafting my own weapons thanks to my Fed Science toon, I tore through their shields like it was a hot knife to butter.
Same with the Cardassian arc. I was worried them keldon's was going to own me, that when i first got in combat with them, only three of them were able to summon their photonic cruiser and I still wiped the floor with them with only 45 percent hull strength. I'm loving playing on the Klingon side.
its a fantasy Escape from the current Liberal real world we have to deal with. political correctness, tree hugging, takes a village, save the whales, anti war , free healthcare and all that sort of stuff.
Did you really have to drag RL politics into this? I mean, seriously.
George Washington was anti-war, if you read his farewell letter.
And **** Nixon was the first to propose a national healthcare system.
Did you really have to drag RL politics into this? I mean, seriously.
George Washington was anti-war, if you read his farewell letter.
And **** Nixon was the first to propose a national healthcare system.
Going to call them both Liberals? Hmmmm?
i didnt drag politics all i said is that the KDF is my escape from those those things . it was not stated as a point for debating real world BS. and i do not plan on doing it now.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Yes, it is the answer to the question in the OP. It may not be the answer you wanted, it may not be the answer you expected, but guess what? It's the answer you're getting. Playing KDF means playing as the Iconians' unwitting catspaws, just like the Undine J'mpok claimed to be fighting against. Just like Gowron did for the Dominion.
And it means fighting under an illegitimate, dishonest, dishonorable petaQ named J'mpok. That's the reality of the faction when you strip away the lies, propaganda, and self-delusion.
You made your bed. Lie in it.
How is J'empok illegitimate in any way, he became chancellor the same way Martok , killing the previous guy, Gowron to became chancellor in the same manner, by Worf killing Duras during the rite to succession. It is the Klingon way.
I play KDF for the feasible plot. I love when a fed only character cries about his "immersion" ruined by the "shoot first, ask questions later" gameplay. That's KDF policy.
Different style of combat. I run a Fed fleet. I fly Fed ships. It doesn't mean I do not have active, often used Klingon characters that I truly enjoy. Flying a Klingon vessel, is a different animal, from flying Fed. I enjoy it. Flying a BOP, is different from flying a Defiant, and I hope it remains that way.
KDF regulars, aren't DBs. Seriously,I never met a more helpful community, including the "upright citizens brigade" that plays Federation, and spews racist nonsense in it's own zone chat. Pop a gameplay question in Klingon space, 90% of the time, you get an accurate, and honest answer.
Klingon community rocks. I respect the diehard playerbase. The gameplay still feels canon, while the Fed play feels more "fan fic".
Well im kinda of new here so i guess this would be a good intro thread if anything
i decided to play KDF simply cause they were always the coolest alien faction in Star Trek lore. I remember watching the undiscovered country and other star trek movies and thinking how cool the Bird of Prey ships were. And they CLOAK too!
I guess i also like the warrior culture, similar to the the clans in the mechwarrior franchise. Very Darwin like survival of the fittest.
Plus my character's name is Czar which is very klingon like
They were my favorite Star Trek nemesis in the past. Kor and Kang were heros for me growing up because they were against the norm, pirates, and warriors with a great sense of honor. It reminded me a lot of the Greek and Roman stories I used to read. They seemed to be Spartan warriors who would stop at nothing to gain victory.
For me originally the UI color was less painful, now as others have said they match the game play style
Starsword the mission you mentioned is just one of several that need rewritten. I would have had the exchange with the Klingon captain in that mission go something like this
Fed captain: If what you say is true we will need proof.
Klingon captain: What!? You want proof?
Klingon captain: Transmit the information we have on the shape shifters
There is your proof. Now hand it over or we destroy your ship.
(no time to read the information)
battle ensues anyway.
But because Cryptic considers the Klingons to be stupid warmongers they were/are written as they have been. As I understand it they are not even getting science ships because the last one did not make any profit.
For me originally the UI color was less painful, now as others have said they match the game play style
Starsword the mission you mentioned is just one of several that need rewritten. I would have had the exchange with the Klingon captain in that mission go something like this
Fed captain: If what you say is true we will need proof.
Klingon captain: What!? You want proof?
Klingon captain: Transmit the information we have on the shape shifters
There is your proof. Now hand it over or we destroy your ship.
(no time to read the information)
battle ensues anyway.
But because Cryptic considers the Klingons to be stupid warmongers they were/are written as they have been. As I understand it they are not even getting science ships because the last one did not make any profit.
Well, they ARE warmongers, that's canon. The only question is their level of stupidity... and some are pretty dumb.
Yeah, I find it hard to believe the Klingons bothered to translate "Give Peace a Chance" into thier language.
yet the federation beloved Captain Janeway had to steal a time travel device from a Klingon scientist. why? because the federation had not developed one.
and sure MAYBE the Klingons got the original cloaking devices from romulans in trade for ship technology ( meaning they surpassed romulans ) but they did develop the enhanced cloak on their own.
so some think they are dumb i call bull $hit. they just aim their science abilities in a more militaristic direction, this is the reason Klingon science skills need to be different from federation science skills.
As for war!!! its a warrior culture and a warrior race that evolved on an incredibly hostile environment.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
How is J'empok illegitimate in any way, he became chancellor the same way Martok , killing the previous guy, Gowron to became chancellor in the same manner, by Worf killing Duras during the rite to succession. It is the Klingon way.
because they are so blinded by their beliefs that they can not see that they are still trying to apply Federation standards on an alien culture that is NOT part of the Federation and NEVER EVER SHOULD BE. As it would DESTROY the Klingon way of life. But that is what they really want for the Klingons to be assimilated.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I see allot of arguments in general that usually get flooded with fed players bashing kdf players and making excuses for this and that all while failing to objectively read and think through the issues.
So what id like to ask KDF players, NOT FEDS is what does the KDF represent for you?
For me:
its a fantasy Escape from the current Liberal real world we have to deal with. political correctness, tree hugging, takes a village, save the whales, anti war , free healthcare and all that sort of stuff.
So when ever here even in the forums i tend to stay in char as i do in game.
I want a strong independent Empire to escape too, If i wanted the live long and prosper experience id play a fed. if i wanted the shady back room, stab you in the back deals id play a rommy.
No i want a straight forward. no nonsense loud mouth warrior that says what he thinks about whoever or whatever he wants with no regard to who is around. Just as its explained by Worf to his fellow DS9 cronies on their covert mission.
For me the KDf was this escape. but not so much with the arrival of LoR and most defiantly not since DR.
(LoR did atleast open up KDF to play from start so ill give it that , and the beginning missions revamp)
Thinking about that makes me realise I actually like the KDF because I'm a leftie!
I mean, the Federation's supposed to be some kind of socialist Utopia, no money, nobody's poor and everyone's equal. But paradoxically, that means in practice you can't tell any of those stories, because that's all supposed to be over. Nice to live in, but really boring to play at. (That's probably why the show never really gives much detail about it). Whereas in the KDF's world (including the Orions and a few other oddments), just like in the real world, some people go broke, some people are robbed, some people are slaves, some people are discriminated against and done down, and they don't take it lying down. Especially not if they're Klingons. And that appeals to all my egg-throwing instincts. Stand up to the Man and give him what for!
kdf means a free plasma leech and better bridge officer traits and more interesting ship choices (less choices, but back when we had BOPs I loved to fly my BOP).
Fed ships all look exactly the same (like an abstract artist trying to draw the enterprise mostly), don't get a leech, and have crappy bridge officers.
Its that simple... I don't do TV and have little trek knowledge (did watch the movies, about half of which are pretty good) and don't care about the factions one way or the other really. So for me its all the perks and ships. Mostly I play KDF romulan now... have leveled but not seriously played my KDF chars since DR because there are no (good) intel ships for kdf and no BOP and flying the old ships takes too much effort to keep them viable.
1: NEW CONTENT! YAY! (even if its 5 years old)
2: I look like a total badass who goes around, does badass things and is in general: A complete badass
3: Cool ships with cool designs
4: cool costumes (hard to get the better ones but cool all the same
5: Less npcs I want to punch in the face or toss out the airlock (Tovan Khev is not one of them)
6: The honor complex
7: No ESD chat (There is Beta quadrant chat though)
8: More helpful players
9: Better teammates in PVE
10: Game makes a lot more sense (game makes more sense now for fed with my head-canon were Starfleet is a military though but kdf is makes more sense)
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
2: I look like a total badass who goes around, does badass things and is in general: A complete
Yeah I love that too, when I see a Fed player with the brawler stance I think WTF! Try hard much. But when I see a Klingon, I think, that's how it's done on the red side.
Even the female Orions can look bad TRIBBLE, mine certainly does and she actually wears clothes. :P
7: No ESD chat (There is Beta quadrant chat though)
Only bad thing about Season 10, well there are a few but this one is the main one for me. Why couldn't they have thrown Earth in the Alpha Quadrant, like in the shows how it's always Voyager trying to get back to the Alpha Quadrant, not the Beta. I understand it's on the boarder, but putting it in the Alpha would have given that quadrant a bit more activity and given us Klingons some peace and quiet. As it is now, zone has been disabled on my mains. Such a shame, no more socialising in sector space for me, I'll just stay on Qo'Nos if I want to socialise.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Yeah I love that too, when I see a Fed player with the brawler stance I think WTF! Try hard much. But when I see a Klingon, I think, that's how it's done on the red side.
Even the female Orions can look bad TRIBBLE, mine certainly does and she actually wears clothes. :P
Red side FTW!
Only bad thing about Season 10, well there are a few but this one is the main one for me. Why couldn't they have thrown Earth in the Alpha Quadrant, like in the shows how it's always Voyager trying to get back to the Alpha Quadrant, not the Beta. I understand it's on the boarder, but putting it in the Alpha would have given that quadrant a bit more activity and given us Klingons some peace and quiet. As it is now, zone has been disabled on my mains. Such a shame, no more socialising in sector space for me, I'll just stay on Qo'Nos if I want to socialise.
The Fed tutorial requires the player to fly to places in what used to be the Sirius block, so it's better that way.
How is J'empok illegitimate in any way, he became chancellor the same way Martok , killing the previous guy, Gowron to became chancellor in the same manner, by Worf killing Duras during the rite to succession. It is the Klingon way.
Go back and read the Path to 2409 again. :rolleyes:
Here's the difference: Worf had a roomful of witnesses to his killing Gowron, and at least one hostile witness to him killing Duras.* Remember that J'mpok and Martok were alone in the council chambers: Martok had even ordered his own bodyguards out, more fool him. We have only J'mpok's word that him killing Martok was honorable combat instead of him blindsiding him and stabbing him in the back, and even Klingons lie when it suits them. And B'Vat's word as Arbiter of Succession doesn't count, either: he'd been a political crony of J'mpok for years and he didn't witness the actual fight.
J'mpok's political gamesmanship does not make his chancellorship a legitimate succession, nor does it make him in any way an honorable leader or the Klingons any less a faction of honorless thugs and war criminals.
* By the way, the fact that Gowron became chancellor from the Worf/Duras fight was entirely coincidental: for Worf that was purely a revenge killing for K'Ehleyr's murder. So in other words, you're clearly not even particularly well-versed in canon Klingons, never mind STO Klingons.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Go back and read the Path to 2409 again. :rolleyes:
Here's the difference: Worf had a roomful of witnesses to his killing Gowron, and at least one hostile witness to him killing Duras.* Remember that J'mpok and Martok were alone in the council chambers: Martok had even ordered his own bodyguards out, more fool him. We have only J'mpok's word that him killing Martok was honorable combat instead of him blindsiding him and stabbing him in the back, and even Klingons lie when it suits them. And B'Vat's word as Arbiter of Succession doesn't count, either: he'd been a political crony of J'mpok for years and he didn't witness the actual fight.
J'mpok's political gamesmanship does not make his chancellorship a legitimate succession, nor does it make him in any way an honorable leader or the Klingons any less a faction of honorless thugs and war criminals.
* By the way, the fact that Gowron became chancellor from the Worf/Duras fight was entirely coincidental: for Worf that was purely a revenge killing for K'Ehleyr's murder. So in other words, you're clearly not even particularly well-versed in canon Klingons, never mind STO Klingons.
If Im not mistaken if you go by Cannon Star Trek...the Federation has committed more war crimes than the Klingons...Attempted Genocide of the Founders, anyone remember that? Also if you watch the series the Federation destroys more cultures than the Klingons and Romulans combined...so no the Feds arent angels by any means...
As for Klingons being Warmongers...uhmm theyre a Warrior Culture, hence War in all its forms is considered the most important thing...Honor, Skill in Battle, all show a Warriors true abilities...but then if you knew anything about Warrior Culture you would know that...
As for Honorless Thugs...doesnt the Andorian Federation Captain in one of the DS9 episodes flatly state that if your planets dont help the federation, well leave you on your own when the Borg attack...that seems very honorable and diplomatic, yes?
So Serious;ly if ya want to troll, go somewhere else...Ill sit here all day and discuss the nuances of Warrior Socities and how they differ from a Democracy as represented by the federation...but if your gonna spout stuff like genocide, and honorless thugs....at least try to get some info to back it up...
Comments
Then why did the Klingons bother talking first instead of just coming out firing? :P
Sorry. Either they're easily offended stupid warmongers, or they're horrible tacticians. Either way, they died because they were stupid; the PC's plot armor had nothing to do with it. Just like every other Klingon who got himself killed for J'mpok's poorly disguised land-grab.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yes, it is the answer to the question in the OP. It may not be the answer you wanted, it may not be the answer you expected, but guess what? It's the answer you're getting. Playing KDF means playing as the Iconians' unwitting catspaws, just like the Undine J'mpok claimed to be fighting against. Just like Gowron did for the Dominion.
And it means fighting under an illegitimate, dishonest, dishonorable petaQ named J'mpok. That's the reality of the faction when you strip away the lies, propaganda, and self-delusion.
You made your bed. Lie in it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Same with the Cardassian arc. I was worried them keldon's was going to own me, that when i first got in combat with them, only three of them were able to summon their photonic cruiser and I still wiped the floor with them with only 45 percent hull strength. I'm loving playing on the Klingon side.
Did you really have to drag RL politics into this? I mean, seriously.
George Washington was anti-war, if you read his farewell letter.
And **** Nixon was the first to propose a national healthcare system.
Going to call them both Liberals? Hmmmm?
i didnt drag politics all i said is that the KDF is my escape from those those things . it was not stated as a point for debating real world BS. and i do not plan on doing it now.
@DevolvedOne
How is J'empok illegitimate in any way, he became chancellor the same way Martok , killing the previous guy, Gowron to became chancellor in the same manner, by Worf killing Duras during the rite to succession. It is the Klingon way.
Different style of combat. I run a Fed fleet. I fly Fed ships. It doesn't mean I do not have active, often used Klingon characters that I truly enjoy. Flying a Klingon vessel, is a different animal, from flying Fed. I enjoy it. Flying a BOP, is different from flying a Defiant, and I hope it remains that way.
KDF regulars, aren't DBs. Seriously,I never met a more helpful community, including the "upright citizens brigade" that plays Federation, and spews racist nonsense in it's own zone chat. Pop a gameplay question in Klingon space, 90% of the time, you get an accurate, and honest answer.
Klingon community rocks. I respect the diehard playerbase. The gameplay still feels canon, while the Fed play feels more "fan fic".
i decided to play KDF simply cause they were always the coolest alien faction in Star Trek lore. I remember watching the undiscovered country and other star trek movies and thinking how cool the Bird of Prey ships were. And they CLOAK too!
I guess i also like the warrior culture, similar to the the clans in the mechwarrior franchise. Very Darwin like survival of the fittest.
Plus my character's name is Czar which is very klingon like
Starsword the mission you mentioned is just one of several that need rewritten. I would have had the exchange with the Klingon captain in that mission go something like this
Fed captain: If what you say is true we will need proof.
Klingon captain: What!? You want proof?
Klingon captain: Transmit the information we have on the shape shifters
There is your proof. Now hand it over or we destroy your ship.
(no time to read the information)
battle ensues anyway.
But because Cryptic considers the Klingons to be stupid warmongers they were/are written as they have been. As I understand it they are not even getting science ships because the last one did not make any profit.
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah, I find it hard to believe the Klingons bothered to translate "Give Peace a Chance" into thier language.
yet the federation beloved Captain Janeway had to steal a time travel device from a Klingon scientist. why? because the federation had not developed one.
and sure MAYBE the Klingons got the original cloaking devices from romulans in trade for ship technology ( meaning they surpassed romulans ) but they did develop the enhanced cloak on their own.
so some think they are dumb i call bull $hit. they just aim their science abilities in a more militaristic direction, this is the reason Klingon science skills need to be different from federation science skills.
As for war!!! its a warrior culture and a warrior race that evolved on an incredibly hostile environment.
no i continued it . way back in the 60s Good ole GR made trek a way to display real world political issues in a futuristic space opera.
because they are so blinded by their beliefs that they can not see that they are still trying to apply Federation standards on an alien culture that is NOT part of the Federation and NEVER EVER SHOULD BE. As it would DESTROY the Klingon way of life. But that is what they really want for the Klingons to be assimilated.
My character Tsin'xing
I love this post.
I mean, the Federation's supposed to be some kind of socialist Utopia, no money, nobody's poor and everyone's equal. But paradoxically, that means in practice you can't tell any of those stories, because that's all supposed to be over. Nice to live in, but really boring to play at. (That's probably why the show never really gives much detail about it). Whereas in the KDF's world (including the Orions and a few other oddments), just like in the real world, some people go broke, some people are robbed, some people are slaves, some people are discriminated against and done down, and they don't take it lying down. Especially not if they're Klingons. And that appeals to all my egg-throwing instincts. Stand up to the Man and give him what for!
If you don't recognise that last sentence, you're missing an interesting hat.
Fed ships all look exactly the same (like an abstract artist trying to draw the enterprise mostly), don't get a leech, and have crappy bridge officers.
Its that simple... I don't do TV and have little trek knowledge (did watch the movies, about half of which are pretty good) and don't care about the factions one way or the other really. So for me its all the perks and ships. Mostly I play KDF romulan now... have leveled but not seriously played my KDF chars since DR because there are no (good) intel ships for kdf and no BOP and flying the old ships takes too much effort to keep them viable.
1: NEW CONTENT! YAY! (even if its 5 years old)
2: I look like a total badass who goes around, does badass things and is in general: A complete badass
3: Cool ships with cool designs
4: cool costumes (hard to get the better ones but cool all the same
5: Less npcs I want to punch in the face or toss out the airlock (Tovan Khev is not one of them)
6: The honor complex
7: No ESD chat (There is Beta quadrant chat though)
8: More helpful players
9: Better teammates in PVE
10: Game makes a lot more sense (game makes more sense now for fed with my head-canon were Starfleet is a military though but kdf is makes more sense)
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Yeah I love that too, when I see a Fed player with the brawler stance I think WTF! Try hard much. But when I see a Klingon, I think, that's how it's done on the red side.
Even the female Orions can look bad TRIBBLE, mine certainly does and she actually wears clothes. :P
Red side FTW!
Only bad thing about Season 10, well there are a few but this one is the main one for me. Why couldn't they have thrown Earth in the Alpha Quadrant, like in the shows how it's always Voyager trying to get back to the Alpha Quadrant, not the Beta. I understand it's on the boarder, but putting it in the Alpha would have given that quadrant a bit more activity and given us Klingons some peace and quiet. As it is now, zone has been disabled on my mains. Such a shame, no more socialising in sector space for me, I'll just stay on Qo'Nos if I want to socialise.
My character Tsin'xing
Don't remind me of that tutorial, I start twitching whenever I think of it.
Go back and read the Path to 2409 again. :rolleyes:
Here's the difference: Worf had a roomful of witnesses to his killing Gowron, and at least one hostile witness to him killing Duras.* Remember that J'mpok and Martok were alone in the council chambers: Martok had even ordered his own bodyguards out, more fool him. We have only J'mpok's word that him killing Martok was honorable combat instead of him blindsiding him and stabbing him in the back, and even Klingons lie when it suits them. And B'Vat's word as Arbiter of Succession doesn't count, either: he'd been a political crony of J'mpok for years and he didn't witness the actual fight.
J'mpok's political gamesmanship does not make his chancellorship a legitimate succession, nor does it make him in any way an honorable leader or the Klingons any less a faction of honorless thugs and war criminals.
* By the way, the fact that Gowron became chancellor from the Worf/Duras fight was entirely coincidental: for Worf that was purely a revenge killing for K'Ehleyr's murder. So in other words, you're clearly not even particularly well-versed in canon Klingons, never mind STO Klingons.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
yeah i have no clue why they let your lott in the Empire.
I mean its bad enough side stepping all the fur balls you cough up. But trying to keep the targs out of your litter boxes is a full time job.
You know what they say. Better ghaq than rug
If Im not mistaken if you go by Cannon Star Trek...the Federation has committed more war crimes than the Klingons...Attempted Genocide of the Founders, anyone remember that? Also if you watch the series the Federation destroys more cultures than the Klingons and Romulans combined...so no the Feds arent angels by any means...
As for Klingons being Warmongers...uhmm theyre a Warrior Culture, hence War in all its forms is considered the most important thing...Honor, Skill in Battle, all show a Warriors true abilities...but then if you knew anything about Warrior Culture you would know that...
As for Honorless Thugs...doesnt the Andorian Federation Captain in one of the DS9 episodes flatly state that if your planets dont help the federation, well leave you on your own when the Borg attack...that seems very honorable and diplomatic, yes?
So Serious;ly if ya want to troll, go somewhere else...Ill sit here all day and discuss the nuances of Warrior Socities and how they differ from a Democracy as represented by the federation...but if your gonna spout stuff like genocide, and honorless thugs....at least try to get some info to back it up...