I would love to have a nice t6 kdf science ship, it has to have 2ndary deflector and sensor analysis.
New home of the Romulan Republic.
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
Let me start off by saying I agree with the general sentiment. I think it's a bit disingenuous for Geko to claim that the science vessels don't sell when there aren't that many science vessels on offer at T5 and zero on offer for T6.
But some people have rubbished the DSD. I'm curious at why. I mean on paper it should be a decent science vessel. So what's wrong with it? Aesthetics blow at least IMO, the ship doesn't look that good but that's a problem with all the DSDs. So why don't people like it? (some have said in this thread that it 'shouldn't count', which is what I'm responding to)
The issue with the DSD right now are bugs.
Outside of the bugs, IMHO, the DSD is servicable. It's a SCI-TAC ship which is an option outside of the SCI heavy Veranus. Personally, I don't have a problem with it but we don't have the myriad of options in SCI at all like the Feds do. SCI-ENG, SCI-TAC, SCI heavy. You name it, the Feds have several versions of each kind of Science Vessel variant, and IMO, they're all performers in the Science department.
You want those variants in Science Vessels because they let you do certain builds that's not possible or ideal with another variant. I can do things with a Scryer that will take an insane amount of damage and dish out more in return because of it's BOFF and Console layout. But if I were to try that in a DSD, I'd get blasted to hell.
You want those variants the same way there are variants in Cruisers, Escorts.
And that's just the old T5/T5U stuff which I consider obsolete. And they still do the job well. Then we get into the T6 SCI options, which they have 3 of and the KDF, Roms have ZERO, now 5 months after Delta Rising released. And the Dauntless, Pathfinder, Scryer are all excellent, differently styled Science Vessels that I would not mind flying. And the KDF, Roms are at 0 T6 SCI. All this, while the Feds still have that large, powerful stable of "obsolete" T5/T5U Science Vessels.
You want those variants in Science Vessels because they let you do certain builds that's not possible or ideal with another variant. I can do things with a Scryer that will take an insane amount of damage and dish out more in return because of it's BOFF and Console layout. But if I were to try that in a DSD, I'd get blasted to hell.
Honestly the simple answer to take for a kdf science, to one 'appeal to the "warriors"' and two, allow for some of that variety while only releasing a single ship, could hinge on incorporating a few simple features into the design.
T6 have 2 ltcmdr stations typically. So make one of them tac and the other universal, probably make one of them a specialization seat since its T6, intel or pilot would suit best.
Allow Dual cannons and make the base turn rate at least 10, not unprecedented, Vesta has already done it.
Give it 3 engi, 4 sci and 3 tac consoles at non-fleet level. Add either sci or tac for fleet, extra science would appeal to the pure science crowd, 4th tac would likely appeal to a wider audience in my opinion and possibly drive sales a little more.
By the blood of Kahless give it at least a standard cloak. Battle cloak or if they really wanted to try pushing sales an Enhanced Battle Cloak may make it more desirable, but the ship would need tradeoffs in other areas for those and a standard cloak would be sufficient in my opinion.
Hanger not really needed as far as I'm concerned, it might boost sales though, maybe, they help for drain builds I suppose.
Last suggestion is more personal preference, but would also make the ship more KDF flavoured I think, rather than the 3/3 weapon setup, give it a raiders 4/2, same number overall but more aggressively slanted.
Its not the first time some of these (possibly any of them) have been suggested, but how many people would not buy a science ship with those characteristics. As many have said, if they would offer KDF (and romulans) a ship that could actually perform at least on par with the federation vessels, even if not exactly the same way, it would sell.
Hell make it as a fed ship as well for all I care, just give the kdf a ship the performs. I have a klingon science officer myself that hasn't stayed in one ship for more than 10 missions at a time since getting to 50 just because I cant find a ship with adequate science performance, DSD was the closest and that lasted longer than the others, it was put aside shortly before DR.
There was plenty of opportunities for cheap KDF sci ships. For example:
Pathfinder = Varanus
Dauntless = Phalanx
Cryptic does not even have to reskin them, if it is not worth time. Copy paste stats, traits and so, just put some set bonuses to sets with lower tiers.
Throw it to Zen store for 2500 because really, it is this same model and ther will be additional sell of lower tier versions.
I know that klingon ship would be better but its really cheapest and fastest way to do it. Even if Cryptic get only pocket change, comparing to command ships, it would take them what, like a 1 day of work to do it?
"We want a ship that isn't yet another battlecruiser!"
"It's clear that KDF players want more battlecruisers."
I swear, Geko must have Dukat-level revisionism going on in his head, or just outright delusion. By no means have we been trying to 'trick' anyone, last I checked, what ships Klingon players want are pretty cut and dry:
T6 BoP
T6 Raptor
T6 Sci ship
T6 non-Klingon ships
Not exactly hard to figure out without either revising it in your head, or flat-out ignore it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Proposal: A new Klingon Defense Force-only ALL COMBAT ALL THE TIME ship type that happens to coincidentally have features shared by Multi-Mission Science Vessels. Commander Science seat, 4-5 Sci console mods, cloak, can load dual cannons, and has secondary deflector/sensor analysis/subsystem targeting as standard. Call it something battle-y like "Hegh'yav Strike Ship", "Qam-Chee Marauder" or something of the like.
Well I would buy it if it was attractive ofc.
I don't mind it being (gorn, nausicaan, orion, lethean), or it being fancy-schmancy I just want the stats to be something!
Geko says they dont sell well, but why would they? There is only one ship the Varanus and it was free to claim some time ago.:rolleyes:
Useless ship trait
t1 bop level turn rate
Hp worse than the fleet norgh
tiny shield modifier
tiny impulse modifier
battlecloak is standard kdf battlecloak, not a fancy enhanced type
set command/intel/pilot positions
6000z cost
Whereas the metrics for Cryptic have to be if it is worth the effort for a possible reward for any addition for STO they do gimp their own efforts & gimp us as players when such purposeful things are done for example:
The Cross Faction T6 Cruiser Bundle. Awesome as a concept, but lousy execution. Brilliant marketing idea to have a product to sell that would serve most of the customer base & would be useful for most of the customers. But then, for KDFs, to gimp their version of it statistically for no reason affects the packages appeal by one third. Well, well, we lowered the stats compared to Feds because you know KDFs have cloak. Really? Roms have better cloak & didn't get the gimping in the stats so please explain the reasoning.
Out of all my various characters I don't have many KDF Sci not because it is appealing roleplaying/character-wise. It is because there's not many options ship-wise. Let's face it though, the majority though are Feds therefore priority. Similar train-of-thought to how all those T5 ships have somehow retained their cost yet lost value now because of the T6 ships now.
Cryptic could easily introduce a Bundle package similar to the Cross Faction Bundle attempt but allow players to purchase a bundle of three for example, all T5 &/or T6 then allow players/customers to chose which ships they wanted via tokens trade or any other exchange method they implemented. That would be ideal, that would sell like hotcakes. But then again, that's no different than buying a single ship at a time but waiting for a discount sale just the marketing is different.
Useless ship trait
t1 bop level turn rate
Hp worse than the fleet norgh
tiny shield modifier
tiny impulse modifier
battlecloak is standard kdf battlecloak, not a fancy enhanced type
set command/intel/pilot positions
6000z cost
While waiting for a KDF BoP I play with my Romulan tac in his Faeht. That ship is exactly what a T6 BoP should be.
The Cross Faction T6 Cruiser Bundle. Awesome as a concept, but lousy execution. Brilliant marketing idea to have a product to sell that would serve most of the customer base & would be useful for most of the customers. But then, for KDFs, to gimp their version of it statistically for no reason affects the packages appeal by one third. Well, well, we lowered the stats compared to Feds because you know KDFs have cloak. Really? Roms have better cloak & didn't get the gimping in the stats so please explain the reasoning.
The reason (lol) the kdf get the nerfstick and roms do not is as to this day, the devs believe/delude themselves into thinking the power loss due using a singularity core 'pays' for essentially 5 consoles at no cost, their battlecloaks and the fact their hull/shield modifier is near fed level...
..like I said the moment LOR popped up and we learned of rommy powers, things like plasmo leech, ect would make it a mockery - and whaddya know? its true -points to rom ship with maxxed powers-
Useless ship trait
t1 bop level turn rate
Hp worse than the fleet norgh
tiny shield modifier
tiny impulse modifier
battlecloak is standard kdf battlecloak, not a fancy enhanced type
set command/intel/pilot positions
6000z cost
Q: The Klingon faction. You know, not the Federation.
Geko: El Oh El.
Q: So, is anything being done about that crew mechanic? Because you keep pushing Klingon Battlecruisers...
Geko: [laughs] Internally, we call that the "KD F-you" mechanic. Because it screws over the Klingon faction for no apparent reason. You're welcome!
Q: But why?
Geko: They killed Kirk's son! Klingon bast*rds! They killed his son!
Q: OK, so why no science vessel?
Geko: Because battlecruisers.
Q: But no one wanted battlecruisers. KDF players want Birds of Prey, carriers, and science vessels. And decent ship traits.
Geko: They killed his son!
Q: So, no KDF science vessels?
Geko: Well, we released a ton of battlecruisers. With free "KD f-you" mechanic built in. They didn't sell well.
Q: No one wanted battlecruisers. And people don't like the broken crew thing.
Geko: His son! They killed him!
Q: Thank you.
Geko: Provolone!
-sigh-
Yeah we should get a mission where Kirks son is cloned and then we get to kill him over and over again. New Klingon weapons +500% more damage towards offspring of kirk.
im a battlecrusier fan, bops and battle cruisers should be the majority of releases, but there should actually be a decent sci ship or two as well. the feds get carriers, raiders and now even battlecruisers, all supposedly kdf exclusive ship types, at the very least the KDF should get some gorn sci ships that are comparable with the best fed sci ships, those would actually sell. a game launch stat clones ship dont sell, and only lockbox options do not cut it.
I'm actually working on a T6 KDF Sci ship design in Gen discussion at the moment. Once I get a good solid layout. I'll post it here and see how it goes.
We were getting a BoP...at some point...the only concern I had was how bad it was going to be gimped.
If Cryptic wants it to sell, it has to have full uni seating that will accept intel/command/future specializations.
Plus, they can make both a Tac and Sci variant...
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
You will never sell something that doesn't exist. Plus, go back and look at the various "free gift" events. What ships did you give away? The Gorn ships. When you have a single science ship line and you give it away on a regular basis, everyone has them even if they don't play science. It's a forever unlock. If they do decide to play science at some future point, they have the ship already because you gave it to them. They aren't going to buy something they already have, guys.
* The latest batch of T6 KDF ships included a Klinzhai Command Cruiser SCI variant. But without a Commander Sci BOff slot which is ridiculous for a "science" ship, imho. (See: Varanus.)
* Previously, there's the Dyson Science Destroyers (with 3 variants), the Varanus... and the lockbox Korath Temporal Science Vessel which is seemingly impossible to get from the Temporal Lockboxes or via the Exchange.
Cryptic seems rooted in "Klingons are NOT science-oriented! They're warriors! Canon emphasized that!"
Baloney. ENT showed KDF scientists. In fact, in TOS's "Day of the Dove", Kang's wife, Mara, was his Science Officer.
Y'know what, Cryptic? Go ahead: Launch a Kickstarter-like campaign. Be realistic about the number of active KDF players in STO. Challenge 10% of them to pre-purchase a T6 KDF Intel, Hybrid or Command seat SCI ship. Make it the most wickedly cool design since the Mat'Ha and Mogh.
Create an additional incentive to hit certain funding goals to release the Fleet T6 version at the same time as the regular release.
Give it the T6 FED Dauntless ship tier V ship traits (nano healing).
Tempt fate and re-release the Korath as a limited time T5-U (or upgraded T6) add-on ship for this crowdfunded effort. Same with the Rozenhko temporal shuttle.
What say you?
You want new sources of revenue, then offer what your players AKA customersreally want.
most of this entire thread overlooked the kick starter idea geko considered..
a kick starter is where people fund the project to basically show there is interest people want it and will pay you to make it these can range from small things added to games to entire games full movies ect its used by alot of games good and bad to fantastic user generated and paid for content it also allows some room for example in sto for this ship, which ships to take looks from to base it off its boff seating console layout it would be a more of a majority wins you wouldnt get to choose everything perfectly but be able to choose where to point the designers towards they could do this or not everyone has different ideas but you arent exactly going to pay toward something thats utterly junk like those silly dyson ships
cost wise it would require real zen donations/cash on the sto site more likely arc as it could probably support kick starters and may add them in general for the future to allow other games to use arc
if you guys really show enough interest and willing to take the bill you could get a new kdf not a clone of fed science vessel
A KDF science officer's role is not simple science, as the Feds are. A KDF sci's role is using science to expand the empire. Give us a sci ship (or ships) at T^ with the Cmdr sci, LTC tac, and LTC sci- your model of 'less people, give them less' doesnt work. In MMO's, if a faction is falling behind, you are supposed to pay attention to that side to bring them to parity- not abandon them.
Just a thought. But how hard would it be to copy a B'rel and be able to use BoP parts on it and slot it with Vesta stats and one Vesta console? And call that ship a T6?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Comments
I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
The issue with the DSD right now are bugs.
Outside of the bugs, IMHO, the DSD is servicable. It's a SCI-TAC ship which is an option outside of the SCI heavy Veranus. Personally, I don't have a problem with it but we don't have the myriad of options in SCI at all like the Feds do. SCI-ENG, SCI-TAC, SCI heavy. You name it, the Feds have several versions of each kind of Science Vessel variant, and IMO, they're all performers in the Science department.
You want those variants in Science Vessels because they let you do certain builds that's not possible or ideal with another variant. I can do things with a Scryer that will take an insane amount of damage and dish out more in return because of it's BOFF and Console layout. But if I were to try that in a DSD, I'd get blasted to hell.
You want those variants the same way there are variants in Cruisers, Escorts.
And that's just the old T5/T5U stuff which I consider obsolete. And they still do the job well. Then we get into the T6 SCI options, which they have 3 of and the KDF, Roms have ZERO, now 5 months after Delta Rising released. And the Dauntless, Pathfinder, Scryer are all excellent, differently styled Science Vessels that I would not mind flying. And the KDF, Roms are at 0 T6 SCI. All this, while the Feds still have that large, powerful stable of "obsolete" T5/T5U Science Vessels.
Honestly the simple answer to take for a kdf science, to one 'appeal to the "warriors"' and two, allow for some of that variety while only releasing a single ship, could hinge on incorporating a few simple features into the design.
T6 have 2 ltcmdr stations typically. So make one of them tac and the other universal, probably make one of them a specialization seat since its T6, intel or pilot would suit best.
Allow Dual cannons and make the base turn rate at least 10, not unprecedented, Vesta has already done it.
Give it 3 engi, 4 sci and 3 tac consoles at non-fleet level. Add either sci or tac for fleet, extra science would appeal to the pure science crowd, 4th tac would likely appeal to a wider audience in my opinion and possibly drive sales a little more.
By the blood of Kahless give it at least a standard cloak. Battle cloak or if they really wanted to try pushing sales an Enhanced Battle Cloak may make it more desirable, but the ship would need tradeoffs in other areas for those and a standard cloak would be sufficient in my opinion.
Hanger not really needed as far as I'm concerned, it might boost sales though, maybe, they help for drain builds I suppose.
Last suggestion is more personal preference, but would also make the ship more KDF flavoured I think, rather than the 3/3 weapon setup, give it a raiders 4/2, same number overall but more aggressively slanted.
Its not the first time some of these (possibly any of them) have been suggested, but how many people would not buy a science ship with those characteristics. As many have said, if they would offer KDF (and romulans) a ship that could actually perform at least on par with the federation vessels, even if not exactly the same way, it would sell.
Hell make it as a fed ship as well for all I care, just give the kdf a ship the performs. I have a klingon science officer myself that hasn't stayed in one ship for more than 10 missions at a time since getting to 50 just because I cant find a ship with adequate science performance, DSD was the closest and that lasted longer than the others, it was put aside shortly before DR.
Pathfinder = Varanus
Dauntless = Phalanx
Cryptic does not even have to reskin them, if it is not worth time. Copy paste stats, traits and so, just put some set bonuses to sets with lower tiers.
Throw it to Zen store for 2500 because really, it is this same model and ther will be additional sell of lower tier versions.
I know that klingon ship would be better but its really cheapest and fastest way to do it. Even if Cryptic get only pocket change, comparing to command ships, it would take them what, like a 1 day of work to do it?
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
"See? No one buys KDF ships."
/facepalm
"We want a ship that isn't yet another battlecruiser!"
"It's clear that KDF players want more battlecruisers."
I swear, Geko must have Dukat-level revisionism going on in his head, or just outright delusion. By no means have we been trying to 'trick' anyone, last I checked, what ships Klingon players want are pretty cut and dry:
T6 BoP
T6 Raptor
T6 Sci ship
T6 non-Klingon ships
Not exactly hard to figure out without either revising it in your head, or flat-out ignore it.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I don't mind it being (gorn, nausicaan, orion, lethean), or it being fancy-schmancy I just want the stats to be something!
Geko says they dont sell well, but why would they? There is only one ship the Varanus and it was free to claim some time ago.:rolleyes:
Useless ship trait
t1 bop level turn rate
Hp worse than the fleet norgh
tiny shield modifier
tiny impulse modifier
battlecloak is standard kdf battlecloak, not a fancy enhanced type
set command/intel/pilot positions
6000z cost
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I guess I will have to play it again because the only "new" ships I saw in Delta Flight were all Federation.
The Cross Faction T6 Cruiser Bundle. Awesome as a concept, but lousy execution. Brilliant marketing idea to have a product to sell that would serve most of the customer base & would be useful for most of the customers. But then, for KDFs, to gimp their version of it statistically for no reason affects the packages appeal by one third. Well, well, we lowered the stats compared to Feds because you know KDFs have cloak. Really? Roms have better cloak & didn't get the gimping in the stats so please explain the reasoning.
Out of all my various characters I don't have many KDF Sci not because it is appealing roleplaying/character-wise. It is because there's not many options ship-wise. Let's face it though, the majority though are Feds therefore priority. Similar train-of-thought to how all those T5 ships have somehow retained their cost yet lost value now because of the T6 ships now.
Cryptic could easily introduce a Bundle package similar to the Cross Faction Bundle attempt but allow players to purchase a bundle of three for example, all T5 &/or T6 then allow players/customers to chose which ships they wanted via tokens trade or any other exchange method they implemented. That would be ideal, that would sell like hotcakes. But then again, that's no different than buying a single ship at a time but waiting for a discount sale just the marketing is different.
--Red Annorax
While waiting for a KDF BoP I play with my Romulan tac in his Faeht. That ship is exactly what a T6 BoP should be.
Geko: Kay Dee what now?
Q: The Klingon faction. You know, not the Federation.
Geko: El Oh El.
Q: So, is anything being done about that crew mechanic? Because you keep pushing Klingon Battlecruisers...
Geko: [laughs] Internally, we call that the "KD F-you" mechanic. Because it screws over the Klingon faction for no apparent reason. You're welcome!
Q: But why?
Geko: They killed Kirk's son! Klingon bast*rds! They killed his son!
Q: OK, so why no science vessel?
Geko: Because battlecruisers.
Q: But no one wanted battlecruisers. KDF players want Birds of Prey, carriers, and science vessels. And decent ship traits.
Geko: They killed his son!
Q: So, no KDF science vessels?
Geko: Well, we released a ton of battlecruisers. With free "KD f-you" mechanic built in. They didn't sell well.
Q: No one wanted battlecruisers. And people don't like the broken crew thing.
Geko: His son! They killed him!
Q: Thank you.
Geko: Provolone!
-sigh-
The reason (lol) the kdf get the nerfstick and roms do not is as to this day, the devs believe/delude themselves into thinking the power loss due using a singularity core 'pays' for essentially 5 consoles at no cost, their battlecloaks and the fact their hull/shield modifier is near fed level...
..like I said the moment LOR popped up and we learned of rommy powers, things like plasmo leech, ect would make it a mockery - and whaddya know? its true -points to rom ship with maxxed powers-
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
let us not forget dinosaurs and lasers. borg factions, and a fully armed and operational death star. (you know that will come soon)
Hey, maybe it will be a beam weapon trait...
Yeah we should get a mission where Kirks son is cloned and then we get to kill him over and over again. New Klingon weapons +500% more damage towards offspring of kirk.
If Cryptic wants it to sell, it has to have full uni seating that will accept intel/command/future specializations.
Plus, they can make both a Tac and Sci variant...
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Let's see...
* The latest batch of T6 KDF ships included a Klinzhai Command Cruiser SCI variant. But without a Commander Sci BOff slot which is ridiculous for a "science" ship, imho. (See: Varanus.)
* Previously, there's the Dyson Science Destroyers (with 3 variants), the Varanus... and the lockbox Korath Temporal Science Vessel which is seemingly impossible to get from the Temporal Lockboxes or via the Exchange.
Cryptic seems rooted in "Klingons are NOT science-oriented! They're warriors! Canon emphasized that!"
Baloney. ENT showed KDF scientists. In fact, in TOS's "Day of the Dove", Kang's wife, Mara, was his Science Officer.
Y'know what, Cryptic? Go ahead: Launch a Kickstarter-like campaign. Be realistic about the number of active KDF players in STO. Challenge 10% of them to pre-purchase a T6 KDF Intel, Hybrid or Command seat SCI ship. Make it the most wickedly cool design since the Mat'Ha and Mogh.
Create an additional incentive to hit certain funding goals to release the Fleet T6 version at the same time as the regular release.
Give it the T6 FED Dauntless ship tier V ship traits (nano healing).
Tempt fate and re-release the Korath as a limited time T5-U (or upgraded T6) add-on ship for this crowdfunded effort. Same with the Rozenhko temporal shuttle.
What say you?
You want new sources of revenue, then offer what your players AKA customers really want.
a kick starter is where people fund the project to basically show there is interest people want it and will pay you to make it these can range from small things added to games to entire games full movies ect its used by alot of games good and bad to fantastic user generated and paid for content it also allows some room for example in sto for this ship, which ships to take looks from to base it off its boff seating console layout it would be a more of a majority wins you wouldnt get to choose everything perfectly but be able to choose where to point the designers towards they could do this or not everyone has different ideas but you arent exactly going to pay toward something thats utterly junk like those silly dyson ships
cost wise it would require real zen donations/cash on the sto site more likely arc as it could probably support kick starters and may add them in general for the future to allow other games to use arc
if you guys really show enough interest and willing to take the bill you could get a new kdf not a clone of fed science vessel
They are an advanced space-faring race. They have spaceships and high-tech.. where did that all come from?
You guessed it science.
And there's plenty of cannon about Klingon science, research, etc..
Heck Klingon SCIENTISTS even mucked around with their DNA and caused a ridge-less Klingon epidemic.
So the Klingon society does understand, use, and even excels in science...
That being said.. my hope for Klingon Sci ship isn't very high.
And at least we're getting a BOP -- that will hopefully have universal slots. You can turn a BOP into a passable science vessel...
*Fingers Crossed*
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.