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In with the Old, Out with the New
flash525
Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
As of earlier this past week, I have limited myself to three characters; all of which are Engineers - simply because I prefer their playstyle. Between them, I own five T5U Fleet ships, namely the Advanced Heavy Cruiser (Excelsior), Support Cruiser (Ambassador), Battle Cruiser (Vor'cha), Dreadnought Cruiser (Galaxy Dreadnought) and Assault Cruiser (Sovereign). The only other ship I have any intention of purchasing at this point is a Negh'var for my Klingon, but that purchase wont come until the Negh'var receives a revamp (if/when). I do have two other characters, though I'm slowly bleeding them and once they're done, they'll be discharged.
Why am I sharing those details? Because they're classic, and iconic ships, similarly to the Constitution, the K't'inga, the Intrepid and Defiant. I know it's not everyone, but I do know that a fair number of players either always play with, or inevitably go back to playing with the more iconic ships.
The new ships (those of T6) are no doubt great for some people, but I wouldn't be half surprised if a fair number of people (who have purchased them) have done so simply to level up the trait, and then use it on another ship, and 3000zen for a trait is excessive. I understand that this isn't always the case, but I would expect it to be in many cases. Furthermore, as much as you may have planned the Intelligence and Command features, I don't see the casual playerbase taking to them all that much; I know I don't. The core abilities have done well for so long, and now there are these new abilities that don't seem to be of much use, again, more specifically to the casual player. #in my experience
Ultimately (and to bring this to a conclusion, cause I don't want to ramble on) but I would very much appreciate it if some focus could be toward the older ships; they don't need to be T6, but some more skins wouldn't go amiss, or some c-store traits that we can buy straight up. I've mentioned it above, but the Negh'var could do with a revamp, and both the Ambassador and Excelsior could benefit from a couple more skins (in the case of the former, the axis could do with a alteration too).
Then comes the famous Constitution debate ~ and yes, I'm throwing this in here ~ at this stage in the game, what harm would there be to have a non-upgradable T5 Miranda and Constitution? No chance of a T5R or T5U, nor a Fleet variant. Food for thought; these versions could/would be level #40 ships with no damage to endgame material.
Why am I sharing those details? Because they're classic, and iconic ships, similarly to the Constitution, the K't'inga, the Intrepid and Defiant. I know it's not everyone, but I do know that a fair number of players either always play with, or inevitably go back to playing with the more iconic ships.
The new ships (those of T6) are no doubt great for some people, but I wouldn't be half surprised if a fair number of people (who have purchased them) have done so simply to level up the trait, and then use it on another ship, and 3000zen for a trait is excessive. I understand that this isn't always the case, but I would expect it to be in many cases. Furthermore, as much as you may have planned the Intelligence and Command features, I don't see the casual playerbase taking to them all that much; I know I don't. The core abilities have done well for so long, and now there are these new abilities that don't seem to be of much use, again, more specifically to the casual player. #in my experience
Ultimately (and to bring this to a conclusion, cause I don't want to ramble on) but I would very much appreciate it if some focus could be toward the older ships; they don't need to be T6, but some more skins wouldn't go amiss, or some c-store traits that we can buy straight up. I've mentioned it above, but the Negh'var could do with a revamp, and both the Ambassador and Excelsior could benefit from a couple more skins (in the case of the former, the axis could do with a alteration too).
Then comes the famous Constitution debate ~ and yes, I'm throwing this in here ~ at this stage in the game, what harm would there be to have a non-upgradable T5 Miranda and Constitution? No chance of a T5R or T5U, nor a Fleet variant. Food for thought; these versions could/would be level #40 ships with no damage to endgame material.
Post edited by flash525 on
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im one of those people who are stuck in the past despite not even reaching my 30's, the excelsior is an old warhorse that its still going after 120 years service, i listen to music from the 70's-90's and a guilty pleasure is "search for the hero" and play games from the 90's to early 00's, one of the best "one must fall 2097" from the early 90's. I do not care for the advancements made nor do i have any intention of thinking about them, what worked all those years ago can still work today.
If i had the chance to buy a pristine ford cortina over a more recent ford fiesta, i would go for the Cortina. In the same sense if you offered the recent oddy over the excelsior, i would go for the excelsior.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
See im the exact opposite.
One thing i have always loved is when a new ship turned up on Star trek, when the Enterprise got its film refit i was like wow its like brand new, and the excelsior first time i saw it i wanted one.
this has been the same through TNG DS9 and Voy, so while the Op thinks most will buy these new ships for trait, maybe many are but i aint one of them, i love the new command ships, they are like an excelsior and Typhon had a baby.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Don't get me wrong, I like new ships, but I would rather them be new skins for existing ships instead of new ships for the sake of having new ships, that's all.
The reason my belief is indicated to be such is simple; by comparison (to older ships, with, or without retrofitted skins) there were always more of them about.
I remember when the Armitage and Thunderchild were released, in addition to the Regent; you suddenly saw more people playing with mix-matches of the Akira and Sovereign. Then come these command ships, the first couple of days, I hardly saw any in sector space at all, only with this sale has the number of them seemingly increased slightly, but still nowhere as near as you'd have expected them to.
The irony (I suppose) is that when the Intel ships went live, I did see a fair few of them flying about, but I figure many people simply concluded that the new T6 lineage just doesn't cut it. I don't know...
Edit: What I do know is that never before have Cryptic held a ship sale on a new batch of ships mere weeks after those ships have been released. That's got to say something about how (un)popular that are/were.
I mean, you have a ship now, you buy a new ship. You're buying the new ship for some better stat or ability that it has over your current ship. So what's the difference if you take the trait and put it on an older ship and fly that? How is that any better or any worse then flying the actual ship the trait came from? Ultimately, you pay to get the ship you like and the abilities you want. The ending combination is mostly irrelevant.
If you like the older style ships, great then fly that. That's the greatest thing about the Trait system, if you're like me and love the Reciprocity trait but hate the ship it's on.. you can just use the trait on another ship. Ultimately, the only reason I bought the Phantom was because of it's abilities, it's nice that I can use them on a Sovereign, Excelsior, Galaxy, or a new Command Cruiser.
My personal preference is for new ships that have a strong tie to the old ships I know and love. The Guardian looks like a new ship, but clearly has influence from the Ambassador and Galaxy. I have made my Command ship look like a cross between the beloved Excelsior and the Sovereign. I like the 'shiny new toys,' but I also like to keep it grounded in the roots of what made me love Star Trek to begin with. In my opinion, the best thing about Transferable Ship Traits is that people can do what they want. I can pull my Fleet Assault Cruiser out of Mothballs, and fly it using Reciprocity, All Hands On Deck, Pedal to the Metal, and Desperate Repairs and it's essentially a Tier 6 ship. It's nice to have that option.
And the simple fact of the matter is that you don't need to do that. And quite honestly, you SHOULDN'T do that. Don't waste your money, or your life. Upgrade your current ship to T5-U, and be done with it. That really is all you need. Your level 50 characters, T5 ships, and Fleet weapons, they were all perfectly good as they were before, and they still are now.
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What harm? How about the simple fact that CBS (the license holder) has already said no? This means that if there is ever a Tier 5 Constitution (probably Miranda too, but that's a TRIBBLE ship anyway, always has been, even in the movie it appeared in), the license would be pulled due to breach of contract.
or people might actually like the ships...that's an option too.
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Power sells.
This has been the new direction for ages, and they're getting more clever every time.
Expect a lot more cool stuff like unique weapons, more consoles and ludicrous traits to be sold for 3000-5000 zen a piece in the form of "ships".
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It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
i am, and have seen a lot of crazy stuff from archived stuff, stuff before my time. but thats the most interesting part, 70's-90's is what its all about.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'm not impressed by the designs and gimmicks lately.
The Ambassador and Dreadnaughts are not really Classic Starships. They were one offs in episodes that required their presence.
As for the Connie. You really must struggle with the word 'No' and its meaning. How long has this topic been discussed off and on and at this point is this topic nothing more then a disguised T5 Connie thread?
Eventually youre going to need to learn not to tell people what to do with their money. Just because its not what you would do with your money gives you no right to tell others they shouldnt or that theyre wasting their money. Its theirs to spend, its none of your business why they did it or if it was a waste or not.
My quote here pretty much answers your question. For the record, I would never use a T5 Constitution, but with the current tier of ship, I see no reason to restrict those that want to have a high(er) end Constitution from having one. I'm not suggesting a top-end one, only a high-end one. My point is concluded.
Actually... it shifted from No T5 Connie to No ENDGAME Connie. T5 is still technically Endgame as it is the most accessible tier with free ships. There are no free level up T6 ships. All current T6 ships are either lobi/lockbox, event, or C-Store.
Its explained in the FCT.
The reason? i love the excelsior class when i first saw it in the movie my first thought was it was that coolest ship id ever seen except for the enterprise of course
But when i first started playing STO first ship i bought? excelsior class then later bought the excelsior retrofit and then fleet version.
I tried out the new ship and tbh beying the command station and trait its not all that its hyped to be my fleet excelsior retrofit can do what it does and do it alot better.
many people own vintage cars from earlier periods and enjoy driving them and taking them to shows and such but more often then not they drive modern cars most of the time as they are more advanced in so many ways such as fuel consumption and safety.
if you want to have a few classic ships for fun that's fine but you should not exclude new stuff just because its not canon.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Still, the source was posted around summer 2014, well before Delta Rising (and the T6 ships) were released. Furthermore, to quote Dstahl himself: Whilst it might also be clutching at straws, the quote specifically mentioned the old connie, now does he mean that in passing (ie; an old ship) or is he referencing the TOS connie (and not the TMP one). To extend upon that, there's still the Exeter, Vesper and Excalibur skins to (potentially) play with.
T5 is pretty much endgame, I'll grant that, but I don't know anyone personally who is still flying (what essentially is) a level #40 ship. People seem to be using either the T5R's, T5U's, Fleet Ships, or the newer T6. Therefore, the standard T5 is by definition obsolete, and I think it would take a very skilled player to take those ships into the harder STF's and succeed.
Anyhow, you've stated your opinion on the matter, and I have answered you. I don't wish for this to turn into another Connie Thread. My opinion isn't likely to change, thus you needn't return (again) to tell anyone to stop posting something. :rolleyes:
I would be happy to have a ship with those proportions. Maybe the Kirk-class (Tactical), Scott-class (Engineering -- with ample nacelles), and Decker (or Pike)-class (Science).
Here's my thinking:
I don't want it scaled up massively. People who like the Connie like the small size and maneuverability.
I want it to have pulse weapon depth charges ala TOS. (Thinking DHCs with less damage that do an AoE on impact with a chance to AoE on miss if that's technically feasible.)
- Small
- Very distinct saucer, nacelles, neck, and hull. Elegant but not sleak or streamlined or continuous.
- Nacelles peaking over saucer
- Round saucer option
- Big, round bussard collector option
- Big, round reflector dish, possibly with an option that feels like a satellite dish
In terms of what all this adds up to from a STO perspective, I would call it a Support Destroyer. Tactical Support Destroyer, Science Support Destroyer, Engineering Support Destroyer.
Have each of the three have one part that is a near lift of the Connie. None of them individually do. If a player buys all three and wants to bash all those costumes together, well... That's on the player then. More likely to get CBS support.
ESD gets a very Connie like hull, wide oval saucer ala a mini-Galaxy, and "ample nacelles" for Scotty. I'd suggest making the deflector a separate customization option and the sci choice gives us a wide deflector. Struts in close.
SSD is slender and sleek. Slender nacelles and slender neck with a TOS flavor. Arrowhead saucer. I'd suggest making the deflector a separate customization option and the sci choice gives us a modern radar dish.
TSD is aggressive. Circular saucer. I'd suggest making the deflector a separate customization option and the Tac gives us a TMP style oval.
Three evolutions of the Connie. All are modern ships but have distinct saucer on a thin neck with a separate boat-like hull and rounded nacelles. Close in size to an actual Connie. Maybe a bit bigger but still smaller than an Ambassador and with an emphasis on darting around and moving.
Ambassador - I really love that design. Its the last of the classic shapes they used. Circular saucer, narrow neck, conical star drive, and nacelles in place. Where after that they went with more "modern" looks. To me the Ambassador is the pinnacle of that design.
K'Tinga - Legendary design and what it means to be KDF. I really love that design. The 2nd to me is the Kamarag.
D'Deridex - This to me is meant to bring fear into your opponents. When you see this de cloak, you run for the next star.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The only things that I would drop it for longterm are a more viable Galaxy that I could fit a large and thoroughly crafted interior.
OR
A T5+ Connie. Which I know won't happen as such and I'd probably worry about the game a bit if we did see it.
I could be persuaded towards a new ship IF it felt truly like the reincarnation of one of those ships, inside and out.
I want a ship that feels like "home" and most of them don't. Failing that, you can't call a 29th century design anything BUT bleeding edge and I'd love the chance to expand out its temporal gimmickry.
Also, I'm pretty much at a point where my ship slots from vet rewards and special events is near full, even with various free slots Cryptic has given. I don't much care for the idea of ship collecting so you're going to be lucky to get more ship slot purchases out of me. So my demand for new ships is partially gated by the fact that I have nowhere to put them anyway.
Memory must be short. Black Friday sale - 20% off everything in the C-Store including the recently released Delta Operations Pack and the Pathfinder released two weeks previously.
After watching the Voyager episode 'Flashback' yesterday I decided to take my Excelsior on my Engineer and upgrade it to the Fleet version and T5U upgraded it as well. Will jump to that after I finish Mastery levelling up the current Samsar.
Friday night I decided to proceed to Vulcan with my Vulcan Science character for the memorial. I outfitted the character with a TOS Science uniform and switched to my D'Kyr, again here doing a T5U upgrade. Spent today doing some Delta and Tau Dewa patrols to level up the Mastery, now complete. The ship performed well and I really did enjoy flying it. A fitting additional tribute would be to add the D'Kyr to the Fleet store to bring an iconic Vulcan ship to equal other classic ships at end game levels.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I made a post/request about this some time ago, and (whilst your suggestion of a Fleet D'Kyr is a good one) I think the ship should also be made available to Republic players; they could use another Science Ship over there.
My character Tsin'xing