The armor penetration issue was a part of the issue. the radiation damage hit before the torpedo, Eventually killing the shield facing to let the neutronic cripple. Nerf didn't go too far, as it's still going to be the most powerful torpedo ingame.
Its not the most powerful torpedo in the game anymore and why should torpedo boats be massively underpowered compared to energy boats?
Its not the most powerful torpedo in the game anymore and why should torpedo boats be massively underpowered compared to energy boats?
IMHO, much of it comes down to content design...and...that various content favors certain things over other things.
If you've got the equivalent of a monster farm type situation going on with trash mobs spread about across a 360 degree arc...what's going to be the favored type of attack to deal with that?
If you've got multiple groups of tightly clustered trash mobs where each cluster is spread out...what's going to be the favored type of attack to deal with that?
Course, another thing to consider there potentially is something that affected damage itself. Power. Remember when they nerfed the +Pwr consoles because they didn't want folks to have too much power? Heh, we've come a long way since then. But it may be something else to consider as part of that discussion.
It's never been easier to maintain that higher level of Weapon Power than it is now...and with Weapon Power providing a 2% increase in damage per point, base torpedo damage is likely no longer correctly balanced against energy weapons when the overall power situation is examined, eh? Course, that depends on if "average Weapon Power" was a consideration in making that determination at some point in the past, eh? But it would be one of those subtle things that might come up in the Beam vs. Cannon arguments, yet overlooked in the Projectile vs. Energy discussions.
Course, just because it's easy to bleed power from the sheer saturation doesn't necessarily mean that the average player is doing that. So that becomes an outlier, eh?
Which calls into question where the devs are looking, yeah? Cause some players might be looking somewhere else...and it would be about getting everybody looking at the same place or getting everybody to understand that certain outliers are to be expected, and that's not really a "concern".
Along the lines of...one can build a torpboat that would slaughter any content in the game, so there is not a problem with torpboats even if an energyboat can slaughter the content better...
Can you build a 100-180k torpboat?
vs.
Can you build a 20-30k torpboat?
Basically, where is everybody looking...sort of thing.
Can you build a 100-180k torpboat?
vs.
Can you build a 20-30k torpboat?
Basically, where is everybody looking...sort of thing.
After after all the recent nerfs all my 20k to 30k torpedo boats have dropped down to sub 15k. Building a 20 to 30k torp boat is not easy anymore. I need to have an entire re think about all my main boat builds. There have just been to many nerfs.
Can torpboats slaughter any content in the game? They used to be able to, but can they now? Can they do that now with all the new time limit on objectives? Can an average torp boat team complete all the STF's within the time limits?
Very nice patch guys, ty Now you just have to tweak the damage output of surgical strikes against the players and, eventually, pvp will be playable again
After after all the recent nerfs all my 20k to 30k torpedo boats have dropped down to sub 15k. Building a 20 to 30k torp boat is not easy anymore. I need to have an entire re think about all my main boat builds. There have just been to many nerfs.
Can torpboats slaughter any content in the game? They used to be able to, but can they now? Can they do that now with all the new time limit on objectives? Can an average torp boat team complete all the STF's within the time limits?
Oden's run some all torp groups, no? Hrmm...can't remember what he said he was going to be doing this weekend (I forgot to ask him if he'd checked if the +5 SP boxes were still on Tribble at Drozana, cause I think he was thinking about some Command Officer testing)...
...but in the end, that kind of discussion would get into the "torp boat" discussion.
Cause, some GW - CSV Turret - TS/HY/Standard Splash...can be a fun mix.
Very nice patch guys, ty Now you just have to tweak the damage output of surgical strikes against the players and, eventually, pvp will be playable again
Very nice patch guys, ty Now you just have to tweak the damage output of surgical strikes against the players and, eventually, pvp will be playable again
Totally agree
Cross my fingers the patch is going to work as intended
FED: Special Circumstances, Raumpatroullie Elysion, Naeramarth KDF: Special Circumstances KDF
There's so much to cover (and I'm on a conference call right now, so not all brain cells are engaged in this post right now. I exercise the right to edit this post to correct mistakes as I see them).
Ran a kinetic test to get live numbers (this was before the Neutronic changes were available) and then used the proposed percentages for TS3 (which I DO support, but for a different reason).
I used the proposed changes as the baseline, and then compared the TS3 numbers to HY3 numbers to show that Neutronic HY3 is underperforming when comparing it to a quantum of equal mark and quality. This doesn't include the needed fixes to the drain mechanic, radiation damage adjustments, etc. I don't want to make it OP, but it does need to be viable, as it is the only reliable means of opening a hole in shields for PvE and PvP (due to radiation damage) that doesn't rely on RNG to work, and even then, only on targets with soft shields.
The bigger picture is that the old mechanics for torpedoes (and, by extension, mines) need to be reworked for DR and beyond. There are significant improvements to energy weapons as a whole (with some glaringly insulting mechanics going on against plasma and cannons as a whole, but still mitigated to some degree by side-stepping the mechanic due to leech and related effect(s?).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I suspect that the Command spec tree tried to shift the "all energy" crowd to hybridize their build to use beams. If that was so, the mark has been entirely missed. Instead, with the changes going into production, pure kinetic builds are being forced into using energy weapons in an attempt to improve their kinetic damage, while the VAST majority of players won't even look at Command unless they have a deep desire to spec into it. I am NOT calling for a nerf to Intel, but a re-work of Command for viability IF you wanted it to be on par with the Intel tree.
As for DPS numbers: I guess we will have to see how torpedoes perform once in Holodeck (see what actually makes it from Tribble to Holodeck intact. I refer to case history of previous patches.) The double-whammy of Armor Pen Trait and high TS3 numbers may have caused an uproar (but EVERYONE was a beneficiary of the Armor Pen Trait, FYI), but this 1/2 fix.... I'll reserve judgement until finalized and tested.
As for a certain poster here who seems to be relieved that Neutronic got nerfed so that they can compete against a torpedo ship in the DPS races, I accept your challenge. I may not max out at 71K DPS again post changes, but my Max One Hit (not crit) of 504K Gravimetric High Yield III still keeps the ladies flying Science ships close to me . Just sayin'.
Oden's run some all torp groups, no? Hrmm...can't remember what he said he was going to be doing this weekend (I forgot to ask him if he'd checked if the +5 SP boxes were still on Tribble at Drozana, cause I think he was thinking about some Command Officer testing)...
...but in the end, that kind of discussion would get into the "torp boat" discussion.
Cause, some GW - CSV Turret - TS/HY/Standard Splash...can be a fun mix.
I got called into a call to deal w/ some issues for a company (some Powershell scrips made a mess of a few databases. Command line and batch files to save the day!), so some of my other testing is put on hold. Besides, after being "politely told" by an alleged Cryptic/PWE content designer(?) that my input is, at best, useless, I'll stand on the sidelines and smirk instead.
With that said, if they don't want people to grind Argala (which I agree with) for spec points, at what point (re how many runs per spec point) does one need to run STF's? For those who know me and fly with me, I'm a constant STF runner, and *maybe* do 1-2 Argala runs per week to help someone else out. Since Command was introduced, I have earned 7 points. With no way to respec and re-allocate points out of Commando (because I do 1 ground a week max), and the points earned for both Intel and Commando were earned via significant STF playtime in a rather short time period, I do not see how the scaling of earning spec points + reduction in experience points for patrol runs + no increase in experience points for STF's all happening at once? Without a mechanism in place to change the Spec Point allocation in place, this is not a good decision for both a game, as well as management of said game.
Defera has skill point, expertise, and BNP (only for hard missions) rewards now. Kobali Prime's skill rewards for point captures have been increased, and certain points reward an APC.
(I wonder what excuse people will use for not being able to complete Advanced missions now? They were kidding themselves that it was the lack of Omega/Delta rep gear...)
Heh, actually, they're in for battlezones. Dyson dailies reward 860 and capturing a point gives 375 skill points now. Also, the dilithium numbers are all strange, so I'm not sure if that's an intentional reduction, or something funky going on (I'd rather assume the latter than panic, just how I am), since none of this stuff was actually mentioned in the notes. Have a feeling it may have gotten pushed out to us sooner than intended.
Just how bad is the dilithium nerf in the battlezone?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Defera has skill point, expertise, and BNP (only for hard missions) rewards now. Kobali Prime's skill rewards for point captures have been increased, and certain points reward an APC.
(I wonder what excuse people will use for not being able to complete Advanced missions now? They were kidding themselves that it was the lack of Omega/Delta rep gear...)
Just how bad is the dilithium nerf in the battlezone?
42 ore for point captures, the defeat Voth hourly only gives skill points and expertise, the dailies give 312, 672, and 1392. Don't even think about asking me to cap the whole zone by myself to see what the V-Rexes give :P
Actually, I'm probably wrong on the Voth hourly. I didn't even look to see what reward I got when I completed it. I don't think that ever showed a dilithium payout since it scales based on the number of Voth you kill.
42 ore for point captures, the defeat Voth hourly only gives skill points and expertise, the dailies give 312, 672, and 1392. Don't even think about asking me to cap the whole zone by myself to see what the V-Rexes give :P
Again, none of those numbers look right, do they?
If the Rex is reduced by a similar amount it looks like close to a 50% nerf. The final bonus will tell the tale. But it looks like they have finally come for the Voth battlezone. I doubt I would do it anymore for 4000 dilithium.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The dailies aren't cut by 50%, though. Just the individual point captures. And really, when something is overpaying as much as much as the Voth zone does, I have a hard time caring (keep in mind it got a wholly unneeded 50% ore payout increase a while back). What concerns me more is the Undine and Kobali zones, which pay out much more modestly since they lack the dailies/hourlies. Those zones really don't deserve to get cut in half.
Again, I'd rather wait and see what happens than panic. Those numbers are definitely off, even if they're just 8 less than intended. The skill points are a welcome change, but even those might be tuned in future patches.
They can nerf the patrols to zero skill points for all I care as long as they bring the buffs to queued missions and battlezones they mentioned in those same interviews. Reward me for doing what I want to be doing.
The highlighted text is precisely the reason for the reward changed in the patrol missions and story missions. Cryptic is wanting to have XP and Dilithium in everything; Story missions, Patrol missions, Queues, Foundry PvP, etc. And what they term Elite Marks (e.e.g Ancient Power Cells) are availale in Casual solo play. So you'll be able to earn the rewards you want for doing the things your like to do in the game.
But the changes requite a massive amount of work. So they are coming out piecemeal. And they are also normalize rewards to they reward roughly the same amount of reward for time of play. So Queues and Patrol missions which can be run quicklly will reward less per fun. And for things that requre more time to run they will reward more.
And you don't have to take my word for it. Go back and Listen to the last interview Geko did with Priority One. If memory serves, it was 3 weeks ago (more or less). Geko explained the overall plan and how they are going about to achive it
You want the same effect? Use Tachyon Beam 3 (with solanae 2nd deflector) and shoot your TS3.
^ This.
By the current game design (not in discussion at this time), torpedoes hit stronger against bare hull. Want to take advantage of that? Strip enemy shields first. One torpedo shouldn't be capable of shield stripping, as the former version was.
I like the fixes but don't like that the XP and reward changes are not in the patch notes. Can we get that addressed please?
And you don't have to take my word for it. Go back and Listen to the last interview Geko did with Priority One. If memory serves, it was 3 weeks ago (more or less). Geko explained the overall plan and how they are going about to achive it
Yep, I'm personally aware of this. I was just exaggerating my point, saying they could take away all of the patrol XP if it meant that the stuff I like to play benefited from it. That won't happen, but the XP redistribution is clearly underway.
By the current game design (not in discussion at this time), torpedoes hit stronger against bare hull. Want to take advantage of that? Strip enemy shields first. One torpedo shouldn't be capable of shield stripping, as the former version was.
I like the fixes but don't like that the XP and reward changes are not in the patch notes. Can we get that addressed please?
If you think that the adjustment to the kinetic damage was what stripped the shields, then you do not understand torpedo mechanics.
As for a certain poster here who seems to be relieved that Neutronic got nerfed so that they can compete against a torpedo ship in the DPS races, I accept your challenge. I may not max out at 71K DPS again post changes, but my Max One Hit (not crit) of 504K Gravimetric High Yield III still keeps the ladies flying Science ships close to me . Just sayin'.
Have fun, all.
A max none crit of 503k proves nothing. That's spike damage not DPS and how much of that was using the old broken Armor Pen Trait and/or team buffs? I get 400k+ spikes now but DPS is below 25k.
How am I meant to do that? I fly cruisers without access to Tachyon Beam 3 or 2nd Deflectors
A max none crit of 503k proves nothing. That's spike damage not DPS and how much of that was using the old broken Armor Pen Trait and/or team buffs? I get 400k+ spikes now but DPS is below 25k.
Well, since we were both under the same traits/buffs affecting our ships, I was averaging mid 60K DPS pre 5Yr Anniversary event within a 30K-50K DPS channel run. In a PuG, I can get anywhere between 28K-40K depending on who does what (or doesn't do anything/dc's).
While my Max-1 is that value, I do consistently hit in the mid 250-300K's for my High Yields (excluding Neutronic [which is weaker] & TS3 which doesn't spike that high). The odd part is, the HY1's via the Sheshar trait average higher hits than the HY3 hits of the same torp on the same target within two seconds of each other. Weird stacking of the ArmorPen trait? We'll see post fix.
My logs are available upon request.
*EDIT: For clarification and after checking recent logs.
Well, since we were both under the same traits/buffs affecting our ships, I was averaging mid 60K DPS pre 5Yr Anniversary event within a 30K-50K DPS channel run. In a PuG, I can get anywhere between 28K-40K depending on who does what (or doesn't do anything/dc's).
While my Max-1 is that value, I do consistently hit in the mid 200K's for my High Yields (excluding Neutronic & TS3). The odd part is, the HY1's via the Sheshar trait average higher hits than the HY3 hits of the same torp on the same target within two seconds of each other. Weird stacking of the ArmorPen trait? We'll see post fix.
My logs are available upon request.
There has been a lot of weird stacking of the ArmorPen trait so will be interesting to see what changes happen after the patch. Don't need to see your logs I believe you. Would like to see your build if you don't mind sharing it. I only get 20k to 30k in PUGs so will be interesting to see if I can make any improvements on my setup based on yours.
I have been thinking about making use of that free High yields from the new command powers. A free High yield every 2 seconds could be an interesting thing to base a build around. Have you tried that?
There has been a lot of weird stacking of the ArmorPen trait so will be interesting to see what changes happen after the patch. Don't need to see your logs I believe you. Would like to see your build if you don't mind sharing it. I only get 20k to 30k in PUGs so will be interesting to see if I can make any improvements on my setup based on yours.
I have been thinking about making use of that free High yields from the new command powers. A free High yield every 2 seconds could be an interesting thing to base a build around. Have you tried that?
Sure. My signature contains the build as well as a few notes. I like it when people mix and match different builds and try to find ways of making it work for various maps/events. The game would be much more enjoyable by many orders of magnitudes if the mechanics supported this concept.
I welcome ideas being discussed as well, because there may be some new insight gained.
EDIT: As to Concentrate Firepower (CF), I am awaiting to see what makes it to Holodeck before testing. It shows great promise, but the actual execution is what we will need to see.
Think it's more along the lines of what we typically see (though it was a bit worse with DR).
Buggy 'n rushed release.
Tied up doing stuff that didn't make the release but needs to be done.
The pause - the breathing room - they get in some fixes.
Buggy 'n rushed release.
Tied up doing stuff that didn't make the release but needs to be done.
The pause - the breathing room - they get in some fixes.
Buggy 'n rushed release.
Etc, etc, etc.
Heh, some folks like to call it the "Cryptic Sell, Wait, Nerf Policy"...but I just see it as something that happens naturally with Cryptic's production schedule over and over - course, the SWN policy could be real, since one might think that an issue with the production schedule would have been noticed and changed instead of it going on and on like it has. Heh, so maybe those SWN folks aren't being paranoid, eh?
Cryptic's 'Release and Redact Policy' is more like it.
If you think that the adjustment to the kinetic damage was what stripped the shields, then you do not understand torpedo mechanics.
I do understand torpedo mechanics. I may not understand specific Neutronic Torpedo mechanics (or rather, shenanigans). For me it's just another atrocity similar to Proton Barrage, doing way too much stuff at once. In the case of Neutronic, radiation damage multiplied by power drop/debuff. I'm not surprised that it's capable of dropping shields.
Besides:
I don't want to make it OP, but it does need to be viable, as it is the only reliable means of opening a hole in shields for PvE and PvP (due to radiation damage) that doesn't rely on RNG to work, and even then, only on targets with soft shields.
I'm not sure I'm reading that right but you say the torp needs to be viable -- as being capable of opening a hole in the shields. I disagree. No torpedo should have that capability, considering the current design. Again, if you want to open a hole in the shields, use energy weapons or shield stripping abilities.
Comments
IMHO, much of it comes down to content design...and...that various content favors certain things over other things.
If you've got the equivalent of a monster farm type situation going on with trash mobs spread about across a 360 degree arc...what's going to be the favored type of attack to deal with that?
If you've got multiple groups of tightly clustered trash mobs where each cluster is spread out...what's going to be the favored type of attack to deal with that?
Course, another thing to consider there potentially is something that affected damage itself. Power. Remember when they nerfed the +Pwr consoles because they didn't want folks to have too much power? Heh, we've come a long way since then. But it may be something else to consider as part of that discussion.
It's never been easier to maintain that higher level of Weapon Power than it is now...and with Weapon Power providing a 2% increase in damage per point, base torpedo damage is likely no longer correctly balanced against energy weapons when the overall power situation is examined, eh? Course, that depends on if "average Weapon Power" was a consideration in making that determination at some point in the past, eh? But it would be one of those subtle things that might come up in the Beam vs. Cannon arguments, yet overlooked in the Projectile vs. Energy discussions.
Course, just because it's easy to bleed power from the sheer saturation doesn't necessarily mean that the average player is doing that. So that becomes an outlier, eh?
Which calls into question where the devs are looking, yeah? Cause some players might be looking somewhere else...and it would be about getting everybody looking at the same place or getting everybody to understand that certain outliers are to be expected, and that's not really a "concern".
Along the lines of...one can build a torpboat that would slaughter any content in the game, so there is not a problem with torpboats even if an energyboat can slaughter the content better...
Can you build a 100-180k torpboat?
vs.
Can you build a 20-30k torpboat?
Basically, where is everybody looking...sort of thing.
Can torpboats slaughter any content in the game? They used to be able to, but can they now? Can they do that now with all the new time limit on objectives? Can an average torp boat team complete all the STF's within the time limits?
Oden's run some all torp groups, no? Hrmm...can't remember what he said he was going to be doing this weekend (I forgot to ask him if he'd checked if the +5 SP boxes were still on Tribble at Drozana, cause I think he was thinking about some Command Officer testing)...
...but in the end, that kind of discussion would get into the "torp boat" discussion.
Cause, some GW - CSV Turret - TS/HY/Standard Splash...can be a fun mix.
https://i.imgflip.com/hxp1s.jpg
Know the difference
It could save your life...
Totally agree
Cross my fingers the patch is going to work as intended
FED: Special Circumstances, Raumpatroullie Elysion, Naeramarth
KDF: Special Circumstances KDF
First off:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22201371&posted=1#post22201371
Ran a kinetic test to get live numbers (this was before the Neutronic changes were available) and then used the proposed percentages for TS3 (which I DO support, but for a different reason).
I used the proposed changes as the baseline, and then compared the TS3 numbers to HY3 numbers to show that Neutronic HY3 is underperforming when comparing it to a quantum of equal mark and quality. This doesn't include the needed fixes to the drain mechanic, radiation damage adjustments, etc. I don't want to make it OP, but it does need to be viable, as it is the only reliable means of opening a hole in shields for PvE and PvP (due to radiation damage) that doesn't rely on RNG to work, and even then, only on targets with soft shields.
The bigger picture is that the old mechanics for torpedoes (and, by extension, mines) need to be reworked for DR and beyond. There are significant improvements to energy weapons as a whole (with some glaringly insulting mechanics going on against plasma and cannons as a whole, but still mitigated to some degree by side-stepping the mechanic due to leech and related effect(s?).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; I suspect that the Command spec tree tried to shift the "all energy" crowd to hybridize their build to use beams. If that was so, the mark has been entirely missed. Instead, with the changes going into production, pure kinetic builds are being forced into using energy weapons in an attempt to improve their kinetic damage, while the VAST majority of players won't even look at Command unless they have a deep desire to spec into it. I am NOT calling for a nerf to Intel, but a re-work of Command for viability IF you wanted it to be on par with the Intel tree.
As for DPS numbers: I guess we will have to see how torpedoes perform once in Holodeck (see what actually makes it from Tribble to Holodeck intact. I refer to case history of previous patches.) The double-whammy of Armor Pen Trait and high TS3 numbers may have caused an uproar (but EVERYONE was a beneficiary of the Armor Pen Trait, FYI), but this 1/2 fix.... I'll reserve judgement until finalized and tested.
As for a certain poster here who seems to be relieved that Neutronic got nerfed so that they can compete against a torpedo ship in the DPS races, I accept your challenge. I may not max out at 71K DPS again post changes, but my Max One Hit (not crit) of 504K Gravimetric High Yield III still keeps the ladies flying Science ships close to me
Have fun, all.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I got called into a call to deal w/ some issues for a company (some Powershell scrips made a mess of a few databases. Command line and batch files to save the day!), so some of my other testing is put on hold. Besides, after being "politely told" by an alleged Cryptic/PWE content designer(?) that my input is, at best, useless, I'll stand on the sidelines and smirk instead.
With that said, if they don't want people to grind Argala (which I agree with) for spec points, at what point (re how many runs per spec point) does one need to run STF's? For those who know me and fly with me, I'm a constant STF runner, and *maybe* do 1-2 Argala runs per week to help someone else out. Since Command was introduced, I have earned 7 points. With no way to respec and re-allocate points out of Commando (because I do 1 ground a week max), and the points earned for both Intel and Commando were earned via significant STF playtime in a rather short time period, I do not see how the scaling of earning spec points + reduction in experience points for patrol runs + no increase in experience points for STF's all happening at once? Without a mechanism in place to change the Spec Point allocation in place, this is not a good decision for both a game, as well as management of said game.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
You want the same effect? Use Tachyon Beam 3 (with solanae 2nd deflector) and shoot your TS3.
(I wonder what excuse people will use for not being able to complete Advanced missions now? They were kidding themselves that it was the lack of Omega/Delta rep gear...)
1) Doesn't address the root of the problem.
2) Doesn't provide the same result
3) Doesn't address the other issues that need to be fixed for Neutronic.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Just how bad is the dilithium nerf in the battlezone?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Good for Ground players. What of Space players?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
42 ore for point captures, the defeat Voth hourly only gives skill points and expertise, the dailies give 312, 672, and 1392. Don't even think about asking me to cap the whole zone by myself to see what the V-Rexes give :P
Again, none of those numbers look right, do they?
Good luck queuing for missions on Tribble
-edit-
Actually, I'm probably wrong on the Voth hourly. I didn't even look to see what reward I got when I completed it. I don't think that ever showed a dilithium payout since it scales based on the number of Voth you kill.
If the Rex is reduced by a similar amount it looks like close to a 50% nerf. The final bonus will tell the tale. But it looks like they have finally come for the Voth battlezone. I doubt I would do it anymore for 4000 dilithium.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Again, I'd rather wait and see what happens than panic. Those numbers are definitely off, even if they're just 8 less than intended. The skill points are a welcome change, but even those might be tuned in future patches.
The highlighted text is precisely the reason for the reward changed in the patrol missions and story missions. Cryptic is wanting to have XP and Dilithium in everything; Story missions, Patrol missions, Queues, Foundry PvP, etc. And what they term Elite Marks (e.e.g Ancient Power Cells) are availale in Casual solo play. So you'll be able to earn the rewards you want for doing the things your like to do in the game.
But the changes requite a massive amount of work. So they are coming out piecemeal. And they are also normalize rewards to they reward roughly the same amount of reward for time of play. So Queues and Patrol missions which can be run quicklly will reward less per fun. And for things that requre more time to run they will reward more.
And you don't have to take my word for it. Go back and Listen to the last interview Geko did with Priority One. If memory serves, it was 3 weeks ago (more or less). Geko explained the overall plan and how they are going about to achive it
^ This.
By the current game design (not in discussion at this time), torpedoes hit stronger against bare hull. Want to take advantage of that? Strip enemy shields first. One torpedo shouldn't be capable of shield stripping, as the former version was.
I like the fixes but don't like that the XP and reward changes are not in the patch notes. Can we get that addressed please?
STO Screenshot Archive
Yep, I'm personally aware of this. I was just exaggerating my point, saying they could take away all of the patrol XP if it meant that the stuff I like to play benefited from it. That won't happen, but the XP redistribution is clearly underway.
If you think that the adjustment to the kinetic damage was what stripped the shields, then you do not understand torpedo mechanics.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
A max none crit of 503k proves nothing. That's spike damage not DPS and how much of that was using the old broken Armor Pen Trait and/or team buffs? I get 400k+ spikes now but DPS is below 25k.
Well, since we were both under the same traits/buffs affecting our ships, I was averaging mid 60K DPS pre 5Yr Anniversary event within a 30K-50K DPS channel run. In a PuG, I can get anywhere between 28K-40K depending on who does what (or doesn't do anything/dc's).
While my Max-1 is that value, I do consistently hit in the mid 250-300K's for my High Yields (excluding Neutronic [which is weaker] & TS3 which doesn't spike that high). The odd part is, the HY1's via the Sheshar trait average higher hits than the HY3 hits of the same torp on the same target within two seconds of each other. Weird stacking of the ArmorPen trait? We'll see post fix.
My logs are available upon request.
*EDIT: For clarification and after checking recent logs.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
There has been a lot of weird stacking of the ArmorPen trait so will be interesting to see what changes happen after the patch. Don't need to see your logs I believe you. Would like to see your build if you don't mind sharing it. I only get 20k to 30k in PUGs so will be interesting to see if I can make any improvements on my setup based on yours.
I have been thinking about making use of that free High yields from the new command powers. A free High yield every 2 seconds could be an interesting thing to base a build around. Have you tried that?
Sure. My signature contains the build as well as a few notes. I like it when people mix and match different builds and try to find ways of making it work for various maps/events. The game would be much more enjoyable by many orders of magnitudes if the mechanics supported this concept.
I welcome ideas being discussed as well, because there may be some new insight gained.
EDIT: As to Concentrate Firepower (CF), I am awaiting to see what makes it to Holodeck before testing. It shows great promise, but the actual execution is what we will need to see.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Cryptic's 'Release and Redact Policy' is more like it.
I do understand torpedo mechanics. I may not understand specific Neutronic Torpedo mechanics (or rather, shenanigans). For me it's just another atrocity similar to Proton Barrage, doing way too much stuff at once. In the case of Neutronic, radiation damage multiplied by power drop/debuff. I'm not surprised that it's capable of dropping shields.
Besides:
I'm not sure I'm reading that right but you say the torp needs to be viable -- as being capable of opening a hole in the shields. I disagree. No torpedo should have that capability, considering the current design. Again, if you want to open a hole in the shields, use energy weapons or shield stripping abilities.
STO Screenshot Archive