Is he impying the only reason people play KDF is because they are KDF fans, which requires them to be Star Trek fans, but people may end up playing Fed because they don'T care for KDF or Star Trek?
But why would they auto-prefer the KDF?
And even if that was the case? What if Ex-KDF players just stop making KDF characters and make more Fed characters?
And I doubt that anyone playing STO doesn't care for Star Trek. He may not be the uber-nerd that can recite episodes or owns the digitally remastered blurays, but.. That's not a fair measuring stick now, is it?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
You know, the Star Wars analogy doesn't work when both sides (or however many sides there are now in SW) were given enough screentime to allow people to really pick their sides, compared to Star Trek where most of the series were predominantly from the PoV of the Federation.
Which is the problem.
It's unlikely CBS is going to try and flesh out the rivals and enemies of the Federation in some neat "Star Trek: Rivals of the Federation" series; with the first season dedicated to Klingons, the second to Cardassians, and so on. Which unfortunately keeps things lopsided in favor of the Federation side.
You know, the Star Wars analogy doesn't work when both sides (or however many sides there are now in SW) were given enough screentime to allow people to really pick their sides, compared to Star Trek where most of the series were predominantly from the PoV of the Federation.
Which is the problem.
It's unlikely CBS is going to try and flesh out the rivals and enemies of the Federation in some neat "Star Trek: Rivals of the Federation" series; with the first season dedicated to Klingons, the second to Cardassians, and so on. Which unfortunately keeps things lopsided in favor of the Federation side.
Season? To really catch up, they'd need a series for each.
And we can be happy if we see a Federation-focused TV series ever again.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Sure, it's Federation content with its serial numbers filed off, except that it isn't Federation content because it doesn'T match what you'd expect from the Federation either.
It's just game content, but if you want to feel like a victim, so be it.
You're missing my point and lol if you think a game could cause me to feel like a victim. More serious issues in life can cause that and if you're mixing those with an online game forum postings maybe it's time to take a break from the forum for a while, this one in particular is quite wretched. Heck, I did that myself couple of weeks ago.
Now more to the point - this entire game barely feels like Star Trek in general anymore. The entirety of the gameplay which revolves around being combatative, blowing up stuff and killing "bad guys" obviously resonates with the Klingon part of Trek much more than Fed. Many of us have been saying that for years.
What I'm saying here is that these so called "faction-agnostic" missions are tailored for the Federation fans and from a Federation perspective, in Cryptic's peculiar view as to what is Starfleet. So no more "punch the Ferengi" for lulz or such. Some of the best content this game has.
If you need a Starfleet serial number to see that, then you're more blind than you seem.
It's not like Cryptic needs to listen to you, as you're not a paying customer any way and it's unlikely there is an economically practical way for them to turn you back into one.
You know what the sad part about that is? I was a paying customer, because I wanted to support Cryptic and STO. When the game went F2P, I decided to keep a monthly sub. for no other reason but in my humble way to continuously support the development of the game, and I kept it for 2 years straight. And I pumped aditional cash in the game, whenever I wanted something and didn't want to grind and wait for it, like the Vesta or Kumari bundles and such.
I have a disposable income and I have no problem commiting to something I have faith in. And I used to have faith in Cryptic and the future of STO, but not anymore. That's the real sad part. I lost the faith in them and their ability to provide what I expected and fulfill the potential they had.
You're right, they don't have to listen to me. It's not like they listened to me for the 3+ years I've been a paying customer of their game. :rolleyes: The only Cryptic representative that has ever listened to me was Tacofangs once, to which I'm eternaly gratefull.
But you know, I also have multiple active Federation characters as well as a Romulan. My money went in those as well, much more in fact since I own more Federation C-Store stuff than KDF. But because of the treatment of a part of the game and good people that stuck by them during years of neglect, that shut down as well. Done. Kaput.
And yeah, maybe it's not economicaly practical for them to try and turn me back into one (a paying customer). Do you really think I'm alone? How many people out there are like me?
Besides, I didn't stop spending to prove a point to Cryptic anyway. I stopped spending out of principle, because I can't invest hard earned money into something that no longer satisfies my criteria as "money well spent". That is all.
Unless you insinuated that I should stop posting my thoughts on the forum, since I'm no longer a paying customer because it interferes with your rosy outlook on the things.
Teh problem is, the content, while GEARED for Fed PLAYERS, is often the antithesis of the concepts of hte FEDERATION.
For fifty levels, you're not exploring, you're not doing diplomacy, you're killing stuff. Over and over and over and over again.
when you get into the Delta Arc, you find yourself enabling what are basically war-crimes (The Kobali) against people who have a legitimate grievance (The Vadwaur) because the Kobali are holding their people hostage, waiting for them to die, so they can be reanimated and brainwashed into more Kobali.
There are Star Trek fans whom are not Klingon/KDF fans. There are no Klingon/KDF fans that are not Star Trek fans, get it?
okay, so...
If there are players that are not Star Trek fans, you're not likely to see them playing KDF.
get it now?
maybe draw a Venn Diagram to help yourself with grasping the groupings.
The majority of KDF players have been here a long time. they sure as hell aren't sticking around for advantages, support, or goodies.
'cause KDF doesn't GET THOSE.
Too often "gOodies" seem to be measured in "stuff that I can buy in the C-Store". Because whenever there is a new Fed ship, people complain "why can't I spend money on something for the KDF?". As if it was a privilege to buy things.
Of course, the other "problem" is story content. And I partially agree on that, but I think the problem is that the story often may have all the Star Trek trappings there (races, species, even little details only a nerd knows about), but lacks the... morale.
they're here for one, sole reason-the two words "Star Trek", and most of them are KDF because STO's Starfleet is just a minor cosmetic resemblance-the game mechanism itself is geared to a "Klingon" mindset, including mission content design and mission mechanics. ("Kill stuff, get promoted, kill stuff.")
SO what again is wrong with the missions that were added? Aren't they "kill stuff, get promoted, kill stuff"? What exactly is wrong with Delta RIsing?
I give you, that mission with Worf where you explore (what turns out to be) a Dyson Sphere, that's Fed content. Totally exploration stuff.
But leading a war against a hostile force? Sound very Klingon.
On the Starfleet side, there's no exploration, you don't get meaningful moral choices to make or meaningful moral stances to take-you're just a gun for an empire, killing all day, and killing all night.
And in truth, neither is this "Starfleet" nor Klingon. Because Klingons are not mindless killers either.
They are about honor, tradition, duty. And how often is your honor challenged? How often do you have to outweigh your duty against your personal honor?
This kind of moral dilemma (and for a Klingons, these are moral dilemmas), they just don't happen in this game.
But stop treating it as if the KDF is somehow particularly affected by it! The particular moral and ethical viewpoint the Federation (or least our great heroes PIcard or Worf) is not really any better depicted and discussed as the Klingon.
I think I actually made a thread about this problem once before - STO features too little of the moral stories. It all focus on the big meta plot but usually doesn't bother to go in the finer points of morals and ethics. Missions like Dust to Dust have more of it - and i think it's good - but you are in the end not still allowed real moral choices on your own. THe game will still decide for you.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
And what do you think caused those numbers in the first place?
Look, you can argue that a lack of content has driven KDF players away... but you have to be a special kind of special to think that Klingons were *ever* going to make up more than a small fraction of the player base.
Most players just don't *want* to play KDF - they will actively choose Federation over them. Not because there's a lack of content, but because they just don't like the faction.
Is he impying the only reason people play KDF is because they are KDF fans, which requires them to be Star Trek fans, but people may end up playing Fed because they don'T care for KDF or Star Trek?
But why would they auto-prefer the KDF?
And even if that was the case? What if Ex-KDF players just stop making KDF characters and make more Fed characters?
And I doubt that anyone playing STO doesn't care for Star Trek. He may not be the uber-nerd that can recite episodes or owns the digitally remastered blurays, but.. That's not a fair measuring stick now, is it?
I am a huge Star Trek fan--not quite episode-reciting/seen EVERYTHING bad, but I am Fed-only. I tried KDF but unless you are a one-dimensional TNG style Klingon mook, it fails. And as soon as I was told to torture Captain Hollingsworth to death, I was outta there. NOT happening.
Now, had this been a different setup and had there been either a Cardassian class or faction, you *might* have seen me playing second faction and being passionate about it assuming the story was good enough and I was allowed to be a dissident and not be ordered to five lights anybody to advance a mission, but it does not make me and many others like me *any* less of a fan to not like the Klingons. Conversely, I am not a superior Star Trek fan because I like the Cardassians best. It is a niche interest within a niche. That is all I have any right to say. I would also say that if you put any game out there, some people will play the bad guys no matter what, and I can see where some people that don't meet some people's "real fan" criteria would play KDF just so they can play as STO's (former) bad guys.
Now personally I think the relative lack of development on the Klingons in the show is also an issue (and there is a whole other thread elsewhere on the missed opportunity there, so I won't go into detail here), so I think that more fans than not will care most about the faction that they know best and whose point of view they almost always see from. I think the majority of Trek fans are more likely to care about which Fed captain is the best than even bringing the Klingons into the equation, just like an even bigger majority do not bring the Cardassians into it.
At least on the Fed side, though I would redo some of the writing there (DR patrols are a serious offender, and thankfully Cryptic took away the biggest KDF anti-Fed stick recently, called "Divide et Impera"), I do actually prefer a Starfleet that is not as pure as on the non-DS9 shows, and realizes it must be military first, exploration second. And I can at least imagine (though I wish it were done outright more often and without TRIBBLE Feds over on XP) that we are stunning sometimes rather than killing and our opponents will wake up pissed off and with a nasty headache after we change maps, but will go home to their families.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I play a LOT with my KDF ENG. I also worked behind the scenes back in 2012 on the Klingon Awareness Week event.
With that said, I understand Cryptic's stance. It's likely a business decision: Create content which is unique to the biggest faction (FED); make cross-factional content the norm. It lowers the development, production and maintenance costs for STO.
And I don't see a market for a faction-specific add-on pack.
Here's a question to contemplate:
WHAT IF Cryptic introduces another faction? Examples: Cooperative (Borg); Dominion; Cardassians. What happens with that faction's mission (story) content?
Like LoR, the faction-specific missions are limited; once completed, the player is part of the big 'ol expansive universe. If you align FED or KDF, you can tap into their faction-specific content. Beyond that, nada.
That seems to be the model for STO.
And if you want the most content/options? Go FED.
For years, the KDF players were vocal about content being added. First City on Qo'noS got something of a revamp; a few new ships were available; the missions were revamped; Michael Dorn hired to deliver Worf's voice, including within a number of KDF missions; and the KDF participated in the overall STO story arc. There was even a Klingon flagship/Captain introduced.
I HATE the idea of Cryptic abandoning Klingon-specific content. There's Foundry stories. Not the same thing, though.
But based on the past, the KDF came a loooooooog ways. Be thankful for what we have, remind Cryptic that original KDF content is still desired.
Get more players to try a KDF faction Captain, too.
Look, you can argue that a lack of content has driven KDF players away... but you have to be a special kind of special to think that Klingons were *ever* going to make up more than a small fraction of the player base.
Most players just don't *want* to play KDF - they will actively choose Federation over them. Not because there's a lack of content, but because they just don't like the faction.
If you actually tried to read what I posted throughout the thread instead of immediately going into dev. defending seizure, you would have realized that I myself said many many times that there will always be a vast majority of Fed. players in any Star Trek game - including this one, however the point I was making is that with proper faction care that gap between faction pop (assuming the glitter-y promo numbers are somewhat true) would be nowhere near so enormous as it is today and this goes for the Romulan faction as well.
But props on displaying your class here so everyone can see just what kind of a human being you are.
Not sure if this has been cross linked into this post--haven't seen it yet--but someone got a full transcript of the whole interaction with Geko on the KDF.
I thought this might be more useful than just a quote or two. Whatever you think of what's said, props to the guy who transcribed all of this.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Not sure if this has been cross linked into this post--haven't seen it yet--but someone got a full transcript of the whole interaction with Geko on the KDF.
I thought this might be more useful than just a quote or two. Whatever you think of what's said, props to the guy who transcribed all of this.
Nice and I agree on the props. I had to do something similar in a Verbal History class I took once. Worst project ever... I'm not into tedious work at all.
Anyway, the way I read/heard it is they're not making any faction specific content AND they're making a klingon story arc for all factions.
No more kdf only content because they made peace with the Feds.
Ok.
But please allow the Feds and kdf to be able to group together.
And allow the them to go to each other's home world.
Not O.K. in my opinion. A huge chunk of the fun, to me, is having alts of different species, of different factions. That means Fed, Rom-Fed, Rom-KDF, and KDF. Changing between them is refreshing.
Knowing there are clear differences of content and fleets who don't all march to the same drum makes it interesting.
Take that away, and you're suffocating my gaming experience into a FED/those other conquered 'allies' VS big bad alien sock puppet NPCs.
I think it's funny how Geko's reacting as if he hadn't spent the last five years or so marginalizing non-Fed content with that specific outcome intended.
It's like he didn't know that cutting off all development, and transferring faction-specfic abilities from the smaller faction to the larger in one-way trades would dis-encourage people to even try playing something other than Fed, (or, briefly, Romulan).
This. And faction agnostic content is not a replacmeent for exclusive content.
When I play the KDF site of the game I get the felkhiri, house wars and all that, feds don't have that. As a fed I *should* get more first contact missions, exploration, specific content. With agnostic content I play the same content twice, just with some badly written dialogue boxes that replace "live long and prosper" with "hurr durr honor shoot!" (you get what I mean)
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Since Geko has such a very bad track record for keeping promises, why would anyone expect him to be able to keep this one?
To paraphrase, "What a marvelous thing Al Rivera's tongue is. It can move in two different directions at the same time." The boy's got a helluva career ahead of him in politics if he wants it. He'd fit right in.
When I started playing KDF, one still had to advance a fed char 25 levels to earn the privilege of playing Klingon. So I did. I like the Fed faction, but I prefer the Klingon one. I play my Feds once in awhile, such as now to get the Anniversary stuff, but I spend most of my time playing KDF. Because the game content just seems to fit a Klingon mindset better. "We'll try talking once. After that, we're going to guns."
As to the people whom think 16% is an insignificant number: How about we cut your disposable income by a similar amount? What effect this will have on your game time? Even with dead accounts and and alts, 16% of 2.5 million is a big number. I used to have a subscription, now I am F2P. I haven't stopped spending entirely on this game. But I now spend a lot of time justifying to myself the limited amount I do spend. More often than not, I talk myself out of it.
16% less who spend US $20.00 a week is a big hit to the bottom line. Which is all anyone at pwe/cryptic cares for any more. 16% less who even login. 16% more out there telling people STO is a waste of time. 16% less providing Contraband for the Feds. 16% less buying Keys and other Zen Store items of any sort. Sooner or later the Fed whales are not going to be able to cover the loss. No business can survive forever by deliberately marginalizing 16% of its customers.
At this point, we'll probably see Geko publicly do a volte face on Klingon content. After all, his track record amply demonstrates his deftness at doing so.
I am part of the 16%. Because I choose to be. And there I will remain. Yep, it is stubborn. Yep, it might even be foolish. But I was a Star Trek fan a long time before I became an STO player. I will remain a Star Trek fan long after someone pulls the plug on STO. 'Stubborn' and 'foolish' kinda come with the territory.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
They have a set amount of resources and will put it where it helps the most.
So, put the final nail in the coffin and bring the kdf more in lign with the federation. Allow the kdf to play fed missions.
Because right now the kdf is the oldest legacy stuff that is subpar with the rest of the game. People make fun of it how it is the worst faction in mmo history. No developer would do this to their product.
And here we are. They won't touch it. They won't be called to action.
No more kdf only content because they made peace with the Feds.
Ok.
But please allow the Feds and kdf to be able to group together.
This would be the greatest in game improvement since ever.
But Im afraid aside from removing some team related bug after private matches where u end up in crossfaction teams I dont see any change to this coming.
Good part is that if you intend to team up cross faction for PvE without a full group, queue lists are so incredibly deserted that you are close to a 100% chance to land on the same map that is if it ever pops at all.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
No more kdf only content because they made peace with the Feds.
Ok.
But please allow the Feds and kdf to be able to group together.
And allow the them to go to each other's home world.
Very much this you don't want to make klingon content anymore? That's fine but let my kdf toons be able to team up with feds after all, we are at peace, right ? Or it's peace only when you find it financially convenient?
Unfortunately flash525, no it won't. We're waaaay past frenzy now and into the wonderous world of apathy in regards of our faction. At least most of us on the forum and the KDF enthusiasts I communicate with in-game.
See, we knew this would happen. We expected it. So no, no frenzy. Maybe some bitter-angry comment here and there, but no real frenzy. Cryptic with their misstreatment and clear lack of interest to invest and develop the faction has led to a faction-wide feeling of dissapointment. Not saying that KDF players will stop playing or have completely given up, but we have no real optimism in regards of Cryptic's treatment of our faction and us as a playerbase. We still do and will continue doing our best to keep on keeping on and enjoy ourselves, the community on the red side has been outstanding for years and it's something that brings us together.
I can speak only for myself, and Kahless knows I tried during the years to be supportive, to give ideas, to help organize stuff, give advice, wellcome new people into the faction, etc. However, speaking from today's perspective, I just don't have the will to bother anymore. Couple of years of speaking into something that feels like a brick wall will do that to you.
Anyway, this was the main reason many KDF "hardcores" were adamantly against a peace treaty with the Federation in STO. Not because we wouldn't want to team up with Feds. Not because it doesn't make sense (which considering how butchered the storylines in STO are, it doesn't), but because we knew that this will only turn into Cryptic's excuse for not developing faction specific content anymore. And faction neutral content for Cryptic means Federation content with a couple of words rearranged for the other 2 factions.
I still maintain that the single and only reason they (Cryptic) insisted on the peace treaty is their incompetence, lack of resources and will to maintain and develop a multi-faction experience. Funny thing though, they seem to have no problem marketing and promoting it as a game that offers 3 factions.
In conclusion - "meh". They nerf my faction, I nerf their access to my money.....meh....
CRYPTIC: are you reading these posts? This is a bell weather indicator for a group of paying customers who are not getting what they want. This customer came to you with information on how you can make stuff that they will pay for. If you can answer this need he will pay for it!
It is not too late to realize the potential of paying customers!
Faction note: if I was looking at potential options, I'd expand the factions to Four(4!) at least... The Borg and their allies would be great fun. They fight everybody right? They can assimilate people and technology right?
Terran Empire, sqeeky-furnace-spiders (Tholians?), crystalline entity shard beings, --- don't they hate the Rommies etc... And many of the ships are already made up right? Mirror cruisers, web weaver carriers, and stuff. Maybe this is another thread...
Unfortunately flash525, no it won't. We're waaaay past frenzy now and into the wonderous world of apathy in regards of our faction. At least most of us on the forum and the KDF enthusiasts I communicate with in-game.
See, we knew this would happen. We expected it. So no, no frenzy. Maybe some bitter-angry comment here and there, but no real frenzy. Cryptic with their misstreatment and clear lack of interest to invest and develop the faction has led to a faction-wide feeling of dissapointment. Not saying that KDF players will stop playing or have completely given up, but we have no real optimism in regards of Cryptic's treatment of our faction and us as a playerbase. We still do and will continue doing our best to keep on keeping on and enjoy ourselves, the community on the red side has been outstanding for years and it's something that brings us together.
I can speak only for myself, and Kahless knows I tried during the years to be supportive, to give ideas, to help organize stuff, give advice, wellcome new people into the faction, etc. However, speaking from today's perspective, I just don't have the will to bother anymore. Couple of years of speaking into something that feels like a brick wall will do that to you.
Anyway, this was the main reason many KDF "hardcores" were adamantly against a peace treaty with the Federation in STO. Not because we wouldn't want to team up with Feds. Not because it doesn't make sense (which considering how butchered the storylines in STO are, it doesn't), but because we knew that this will only turn into Cryptic's excuse for not developing faction specific content anymore. And faction neutral content for Cryptic means Federation content with a couple of words rearranged for the other 2 factions.
I still maintain that the single and only reason they (Cryptic) insisted on the peace treaty is their incompetence, lack of resources and will to maintain and develop a multi-faction experience. Funny thing though, they seem to have no problem marketing and promoting it as a game that offers 3 factions.
In conclusion - "meh". They nerf my faction, I nerf their access to my money.....meh....
AGREED!
I myself have stopped interesting in STO anymore.. There are better (graphicswise) games out there and let's face it - U'd be hard pressed finding a game with a worse storyline than STO. I can't belive they made (2!) new ships for KDF and neither was a BoP.. And I can't believe that I shouldn't slaughter innocent feds anymore - How would I reach Sto'Vo'Kor without an epic strugle? And I can't believe Cryptic could be so moronic as to nerf not one but 2 factions in a multifaction universe that had three factions - what do u end up with? - a monofactional universe, pure PvE and nothing more.. Although the Roms never really amounted to a faction, subordinated as they are from start to the other two..
I've only held on for more than three years because of my original love for the Star Trek universe..
I would bet that at least 90% of the players who mainly play KDF saw this coming. Actually, I'd bet that anyone with common sense saw this coming.
1. Gate access to a faction by requiring level 25 in "Main" faction (initially).
2. Release ships that are unpopular.
3. Any unique consoles that are incentive to play alternate faction, offer to main faction.
4. Offer more ship selection to "Main" faction.
5. Raise level cap and ship tier, offer better traits, 3x more of them, and more choices/customization to "Main" faction.
6. Although several hundred requests for specific classes of ships are made, ignore them all, and add the only class NOT asked for.
7. Reference population %, ignoring all incentive to not play that faction.
8. Profit.
I am a huge Star Trek fan--not quite episode-reciting/seen EVERYTHING bad, but I am Fed-only. I tried KDF but unless you are a one-dimensional TNG style Klingon mook, it fails. And as soon as I was told to torture Captain Hollingsworth to death, I was outta there. NOT happening.
OMG- that mission is the BEST mission in STO. I've lost count as to how many ways I could torture that fed scumbag until he talked. I think the riflebutt assault is my favorite.
Now you've gone and reminded me that I haven't played that mission in a while. Thanks alot.
The only thing that keeps me interested in star trek is the replaybility of 'Klingon Academy', it's certainly not sto.
OMG- that mission is the BEST mission in STO. I've lost count as to how many ways I could torture that fed scumbag until he talked. I think the riflebutt assault is my favorite.
Now you've gone and reminded me that I haven't played that mission in a while. Thanks alot.
The only thing that keeps me interested in star trek is the replaybility of 'Klingon Academy', it's certainly not sto.
Its sad really. To me they should do at least a small arc, or a couple FEs just for the factions only. And give out rewards of similar value to each of them. To me this is what made the factions worthy to play and good to be part of.
Them not wanting to, and after what I'm seeing on my KDF in DR. I see a lot of lazy story writing and lack of care to make them different. Sure they could follow the same story, but at least rewrite most of it to fit in those factions.
Doing this really takes out the RP factor. Makes me want to quick click, accept, and run off for the mission. Not see that part of the lack of story.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Didn't much like that one, maybe because it was so early in the missions tree and was easily overwhelmed by the OP 'bad guy'. It's where I learned to 'die thru' a mission instead of actually playing it. I kept expecting to see coins over they eyes of the dead (to pay the ferryman).
Comments
Is he impying the only reason people play KDF is because they are KDF fans, which requires them to be Star Trek fans, but people may end up playing Fed because they don'T care for KDF or Star Trek?
But why would they auto-prefer the KDF?
And even if that was the case? What if Ex-KDF players just stop making KDF characters and make more Fed characters?
And I doubt that anyone playing STO doesn't care for Star Trek. He may not be the uber-nerd that can recite episodes or owns the digitally remastered blurays, but.. That's not a fair measuring stick now, is it?
Which is the problem.
It's unlikely CBS is going to try and flesh out the rivals and enemies of the Federation in some neat "Star Trek: Rivals of the Federation" series; with the first season dedicated to Klingons, the second to Cardassians, and so on. Which unfortunately keeps things lopsided in favor of the Federation side.
Season? To really catch up, they'd need a series for each.
And we can be happy if we see a Federation-focused TV series ever again.
You're missing my point and lol
Now more to the point - this entire game barely feels like Star Trek in general anymore. The entirety of the gameplay which revolves around being combatative, blowing up stuff and killing "bad guys" obviously resonates with the Klingon part of Trek much more than Fed. Many of us have been saying that for years.
What I'm saying here is that these so called "faction-agnostic" missions are tailored for the Federation fans and from a Federation perspective, in Cryptic's peculiar view as to what is Starfleet. So no more "punch the Ferengi" for lulz or such. Some of the best content this game has.
If you need a Starfleet serial number to see that, then you're more blind than you seem.
You know what the sad part about that is? I was a paying customer, because I wanted to support Cryptic and STO. When the game went F2P, I decided to keep a monthly sub. for no other reason but in my humble way to continuously support the development of the game, and I kept it for 2 years straight. And I pumped aditional cash in the game, whenever I wanted something and didn't want to grind and wait for it, like the Vesta or Kumari bundles and such.
I have a disposable income and I have no problem commiting to something I have faith in. And I used to have faith in Cryptic and the future of STO, but not anymore. That's the real sad part. I lost the faith in them and their ability to provide what I expected and fulfill the potential they had.
You're right, they don't have to listen to me. It's not like they listened to me for the 3+ years I've been a paying customer of their game. :rolleyes: The only Cryptic representative that has ever listened to me was Tacofangs once, to which I'm eternaly gratefull.
But you know, I also have multiple active Federation characters as well as a Romulan. My money went in those as well, much more in fact since I own more Federation C-Store stuff than KDF. But because of the treatment of a part of the game and good people that stuck by them during years of neglect, that shut down as well. Done. Kaput.
And yeah, maybe it's not economicaly practical for them to try and turn me back into one (a paying customer). Do you really think I'm alone? How many people out there are like me?
Besides, I didn't stop spending to prove a point to Cryptic anyway. I stopped spending out of principle, because I can't invest hard earned money into something that no longer satisfies my criteria as "money well spent". That is all.
Unless you insinuated that I should stop posting my thoughts on the forum, since I'm no longer a paying customer because it interferes with your rosy outlook on the things.
Of course, the other "problem" is story content. And I partially agree on that, but I think the problem is that the story often may have all the Star Trek trappings there (races, species, even little details only a nerd knows about), but lacks the... morale.
SO what again is wrong with the missions that were added? Aren't they "kill stuff, get promoted, kill stuff"? What exactly is wrong with Delta RIsing?
I give you, that mission with Worf where you explore (what turns out to be) a Dyson Sphere, that's Fed content. Totally exploration stuff.
But leading a war against a hostile force? Sound very Klingon.
And in truth, neither is this "Starfleet" nor Klingon. Because Klingons are not mindless killers either.
They are about honor, tradition, duty. And how often is your honor challenged? How often do you have to outweigh your duty against your personal honor?
This kind of moral dilemma (and for a Klingons, these are moral dilemmas), they just don't happen in this game.
But stop treating it as if the KDF is somehow particularly affected by it! The particular moral and ethical viewpoint the Federation (or least our great heroes PIcard or Worf) is not really any better depicted and discussed as the Klingon.
I think I actually made a thread about this problem once before - STO features too little of the moral stories. It all focus on the big meta plot but usually doesn't bother to go in the finer points of morals and ethics. Missions like Dust to Dust have more of it - and i think it's good - but you are in the end not still allowed real moral choices on your own. THe game will still decide for you.
Alright now since that is out of the way...
How about some f**king T6 starships for my KDF and Romulan Science toons!?!?!?
Nope. Cryptic is too busy fixing areas of the game that is substandard to fix areas of.....hmmm
Look, you can argue that a lack of content has driven KDF players away... but you have to be a special kind of special to think that Klingons were *ever* going to make up more than a small fraction of the player base.
Most players just don't *want* to play KDF - they will actively choose Federation over them. Not because there's a lack of content, but because they just don't like the faction.
I am a huge Star Trek fan--not quite episode-reciting/seen EVERYTHING bad, but I am Fed-only. I tried KDF but unless you are a one-dimensional TNG style Klingon mook, it fails. And as soon as I was told to torture Captain Hollingsworth to death, I was outta there. NOT happening.
Now, had this been a different setup and had there been either a Cardassian class or faction, you *might* have seen me playing second faction and being passionate about it assuming the story was good enough and I was allowed to be a dissident and not be ordered to five lights anybody to advance a mission, but it does not make me and many others like me *any* less of a fan to not like the Klingons. Conversely, I am not a superior Star Trek fan because I like the Cardassians best. It is a niche interest within a niche. That is all I have any right to say. I would also say that if you put any game out there, some people will play the bad guys no matter what, and I can see where some people that don't meet some people's "real fan" criteria would play KDF just so they can play as STO's (former) bad guys.
Now personally I think the relative lack of development on the Klingons in the show is also an issue (and there is a whole other thread elsewhere on the missed opportunity there, so I won't go into detail here), so I think that more fans than not will care most about the faction that they know best and whose point of view they almost always see from. I think the majority of Trek fans are more likely to care about which Fed captain is the best than even bringing the Klingons into the equation, just like an even bigger majority do not bring the Cardassians into it.
At least on the Fed side, though I would redo some of the writing there (DR patrols are a serious offender, and thankfully Cryptic took away the biggest KDF anti-Fed stick recently, called "Divide et Impera"), I do actually prefer a Starfleet that is not as pure as on the non-DS9 shows, and realizes it must be military first, exploration second. And I can at least imagine (though I wish it were done outright more often and without TRIBBLE Feds over on XP) that we are stunning sometimes rather than killing and our opponents will wake up pissed off and with a nasty headache after we change maps, but will go home to their families.
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With that said, I understand Cryptic's stance. It's likely a business decision: Create content which is unique to the biggest faction (FED); make cross-factional content the norm. It lowers the development, production and maintenance costs for STO.
And I don't see a market for a faction-specific add-on pack.
Here's a question to contemplate:
WHAT IF Cryptic introduces another faction? Examples: Cooperative (Borg); Dominion; Cardassians. What happens with that faction's mission (story) content?
Like LoR, the faction-specific missions are limited; once completed, the player is part of the big 'ol expansive universe. If you align FED or KDF, you can tap into their faction-specific content. Beyond that, nada.
That seems to be the model for STO.
And if you want the most content/options? Go FED.
For years, the KDF players were vocal about content being added. First City on Qo'noS got something of a revamp; a few new ships were available; the missions were revamped; Michael Dorn hired to deliver Worf's voice, including within a number of KDF missions; and the KDF participated in the overall STO story arc. There was even a Klingon flagship/Captain introduced.
I HATE the idea of Cryptic abandoning Klingon-specific content. There's Foundry stories. Not the same thing, though.
But based on the past, the KDF came a loooooooog ways. Be thankful for what we have, remind Cryptic that original KDF content is still desired.
Get more players to try a KDF faction Captain, too.
If you actually tried to read what I posted throughout the thread instead of immediately going into dev. defending seizure, you would have realized that I myself said many many times that there will always be a vast majority of Fed. players in any Star Trek game - including this one, however the point I was making is that with proper faction care that gap between faction pop (assuming the glitter-y promo numbers are somewhat true) would be nowhere near so enormous as it is today and this goes for the Romulan faction as well.
But props on displaying your class here so everyone can see just what kind of a human being you are.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22226881&postcount=31
I thought this might be more useful than just a quote or two. Whatever you think of what's said, props to the guy who transcribed all of this.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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Nice and I agree on the props. I had to do something similar in a Verbal History class I took once. Worst project ever... I'm not into tedious work at all.
Anyway, the way I read/heard it is they're not making any faction specific content AND they're making a klingon story arc for all factions.
Not O.K. in my opinion. A huge chunk of the fun, to me, is having alts of different species, of different factions. That means Fed, Rom-Fed, Rom-KDF, and KDF. Changing between them is refreshing.
Knowing there are clear differences of content and fleets who don't all march to the same drum makes it interesting.
Take that away, and you're suffocating my gaming experience into a FED/those other conquered 'allies' VS big bad alien sock puppet NPCs.
This. And faction agnostic content is not a replacmeent for exclusive content.
When I play the KDF site of the game I get the felkhiri, house wars and all that, feds don't have that. As a fed I *should* get more first contact missions, exploration, specific content. With agnostic content I play the same content twice, just with some badly written dialogue boxes that replace "live long and prosper" with "hurr durr honor shoot!" (you get what I mean)
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I have a question for you to consider.
Since Geko has such a very bad track record for keeping promises, why would anyone expect him to be able to keep this one?
To paraphrase, "What a marvelous thing Al Rivera's tongue is. It can move in two different directions at the same time." The boy's got a helluva career ahead of him in politics if he wants it. He'd fit right in.
When I started playing KDF, one still had to advance a fed char 25 levels to earn the privilege of playing Klingon. So I did. I like the Fed faction, but I prefer the Klingon one. I play my Feds once in awhile, such as now to get the Anniversary stuff, but I spend most of my time playing KDF. Because the game content just seems to fit a Klingon mindset better. "We'll try talking once. After that, we're going to guns."
As to the people whom think 16% is an insignificant number: How about we cut your disposable income by a similar amount? What effect this will have on your game time? Even with dead accounts and and alts, 16% of 2.5 million is a big number. I used to have a subscription, now I am F2P. I haven't stopped spending entirely on this game. But I now spend a lot of time justifying to myself the limited amount I do spend. More often than not, I talk myself out of it.
16% less who spend US $20.00 a week is a big hit to the bottom line. Which is all anyone at pwe/cryptic cares for any more. 16% less who even login. 16% more out there telling people STO is a waste of time. 16% less providing Contraband for the Feds. 16% less buying Keys and other Zen Store items of any sort. Sooner or later the Fed whales are not going to be able to cover the loss. No business can survive forever by deliberately marginalizing 16% of its customers.
At this point, we'll probably see Geko publicly do a volte face on Klingon content. After all, his track record amply demonstrates his deftness at doing so.
I am part of the 16%. Because I choose to be. And there I will remain. Yep, it is stubborn. Yep, it might even be foolish. But I was a Star Trek fan a long time before I became an STO player. I will remain a Star Trek fan long after someone pulls the plug on STO. 'Stubborn' and 'foolish' kinda come with the territory.
So, put the final nail in the coffin and bring the kdf more in lign with the federation. Allow the kdf to play fed missions.
Because right now the kdf is the oldest legacy stuff that is subpar with the rest of the game. People make fun of it how it is the worst faction in mmo history. No developer would do this to their product.
And here we are. They won't touch it. They won't be called to action.
So merge it.
This would be the greatest in game improvement since ever.
But Im afraid aside from removing some team related bug after private matches where u end up in crossfaction teams I dont see any change to this coming.
Good part is that if you intend to team up cross faction for PvE without a full group, queue lists are so incredibly deserted that you are close to a 100% chance to land on the same map that is if it ever pops at all.
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Very much this you don't want to make klingon content anymore? That's fine but let my kdf toons be able to team up with feds after all, we are at peace, right ? Or it's peace only when you find it financially convenient?
CRYPTIC: are you reading these posts? This is a bell weather indicator for a group of paying customers who are not getting what they want. This customer came to you with information on how you can make stuff that they will pay for. If you can answer this need he will pay for it!
It is not too late to realize the potential of paying customers!
Faction note: if I was looking at potential options, I'd expand the factions to Four(4!) at least... The Borg and their allies would be great fun. They fight everybody right? They can assimilate people and technology right?
Terran Empire, sqeeky-furnace-spiders (Tholians?), crystalline entity shard beings, --- don't they hate the Rommies etc... And many of the ships are already made up right? Mirror cruisers, web weaver carriers, and stuff. Maybe this is another thread...
AGREED!
I myself have stopped interesting in STO anymore.. There are better (graphicswise) games out there and let's face it - U'd be hard pressed finding a game with a worse storyline than STO. I can't belive they made (2!) new ships for KDF and neither was a BoP.. And I can't believe that I shouldn't slaughter innocent feds anymore - How would I reach Sto'Vo'Kor without an epic strugle? And I can't believe Cryptic could be so moronic as to nerf not one but 2 factions in a multifaction universe that had three factions - what do u end up with? - a monofactional universe, pure PvE and nothing more.. Although the Roms never really amounted to a faction, subordinated as they are from start to the other two..
I've only held on for more than three years because of my original love for the Star Trek universe..
1. Gate access to a faction by requiring level 25 in "Main" faction (initially).
2. Release ships that are unpopular.
3. Any unique consoles that are incentive to play alternate faction, offer to main faction.
4. Offer more ship selection to "Main" faction.
5. Raise level cap and ship tier, offer better traits, 3x more of them, and more choices/customization to "Main" faction.
6. Although several hundred requests for specific classes of ships are made, ignore them all, and add the only class NOT asked for.
7. Reference population %, ignoring all incentive to not play that faction.
8. Profit.
It's not like it's obvious or anything.
OMG- that mission is the BEST mission in STO. I've lost count as to how many ways I could torture that fed scumbag until he talked. I think the riflebutt assault is my favorite.
Now you've gone and reminded me that I haven't played that mission in a while. Thanks alot.
The only thing that keeps me interested in star trek is the replaybility of 'Klingon Academy', it's certainly not sto.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Better than the Barge of the Dead mission? :eek:
Them not wanting to, and after what I'm seeing on my KDF in DR. I see a lot of lazy story writing and lack of care to make them different. Sure they could follow the same story, but at least rewrite most of it to fit in those factions.
Doing this really takes out the RP factor. Makes me want to quick click, accept, and run off for the mission. Not see that part of the lack of story.
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Didn't much like that one, maybe because it was so early in the missions tree and was easily overwhelmed by the OP 'bad guy'. It's where I learned to 'die thru' a mission instead of actually playing it. I kept expecting to see coins over they eyes of the dead (to pay the ferryman).
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
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