I also apologize for original comment to you, pvp gets so much unwarranted hate it's hard to keep track where it's coming from. Funny thing is most of the hate comes from people who never pvp and fear it for some reason even though they are not forced to play it.
oh, must be those "star trek fans" i heard off?!:rolleyes: sry, couldn't resist ...
I always found that most games after the story was completed and missions unlocked and finished PvP was clearly endgame content.
STO clearly lost that somewhere.
And now after lengthy time and cost spent PvPing it's over in STO. Some remain and I understand why they do so but most have left for greener pastures.
I now get my PvP from Fractured Space and War Thunder. The devs there actually care about PvP and their playerbase.
yup logging into warthunder, it's different every time something i wash sto had i don't want to know whats going to happen every single time i log in and queue up pve to the point where i don't even have to look at the screen
Yep true i am old player ,.. i played since beta Hence i said i cant get into it Not my type of game to pvp in.. But i am glad you like it
i was in closed beta.I only played pvp and all my friends left after DR.All pvp players who spent money and time to understand the game left.All the people who used to queue for pvp and have matches with and against are now gone.Compared to pve players we in pvp have lots of things to debate....borgs dont make anything original and unexpected...people do that in pvp .
Sadly they ruined it with traits and broken ships.Even follow target camera is no longer enough for how fast escorts (which now have lt cmd eng station and can use epte3) move.10km weapon range is not enough ,everything is 1 bind to rule them all .Tactics are gone ,timing powers is gone ,counting on a dedicated healer is gone.There is no other game with pvp like sto used to have.
s4 and s5 had the best pvp.They only need to get that game and make a pvp tutorial for it ...done pvp fixed.Then some maps or something original or something to make people spend money in.You dont need tons of new content to keep pvp interesting ...every match is different .
back in the day you could level up a toon in few hours and get it ready for pvp.What took time was to polish the build .For example you could get easy a ship with 4dhc with normal mods but it took time to get it all accx3 and best mk XII consoles.Thing is the diffrence between normal gear and best gear was not like is now...you could fight a person with best gear and win .It was all about timing powers .
Sigh. OK. It's because PvP has never been look after by Cryptic/PWE.
Why?
Because Star Trek Online will never be about PvP. No matter how hard your heads are.
Catch this before it goes over your heads: If PvP yielded ANYTHING good or MONEY, money, money, Cryptic would have made it work by now.
Five years later.
No PvP.
Ground Control to Major Tom?
The Pattern is Full.
pvp games are in top 10 steam charts all the time.You clearly are a pve nOOblet (clearly better than hard head)...you know those that were used by cryptic to make the game like it is now.Like Geko you have not even a single clue why some games are played and while others are TRIBBLE.STO is not in top 10 games ....pvp only games are in top 10.Old pve mmos will be soon a thing of the past.
I do hope the OP stopped reading after the first page as this thread has become a prime example of why we don't make pvp threads outside the pvp forums...
Sigh. OK. It's because PvP has never been look after by Cryptic/PWE.
Why?
Because Star Trek Online will never be about PvP. No matter how hard your heads are.
Catch this before it goes over your heads: If PvP yielded ANYTHING good or MONEY, money, money, Cryptic would have made it work by now.
Five years later.
No PvP.
Ground Control to Major Tom?
The Pattern is Full.
It's not PvP, it's Cryptic. PvP can bring tons of money, many other games and MMO's are a living proof. In fact, a good PvP system can prolongue the lifetime and revenue from a dying/stagnating game.
If there was functional PvP system in STO, the far-fetched proposal by gulberat for Cryptic to focus on bug fixes, system and QoL improvements for a while instead of new content would be plausible for a while, since the players would have a venue to animate themselves. And probably vastly improving every aspect of the game for everyone.
The problem is Cryptic. If you look back - every single game they made was severely lacking in the area of PvP, not as bad as STO, but pretty bad IMHO.
They don't know PvP. They don't understand PvP. They don't understand balance, it's a foreign concept for them. Just look at the insane rates of power creep in STO. Just look at the power creep that DR brought alone after Geko stated that DR will bring an end to power creep before DR was actually released. lol Balance could hit them on the head and continue beating them for six months and they still wouldn't understand it.
PvP has money in it. A lot. They want to get that money badly. They really do. But they're beyond help, they just can't comprehend PvP and stick to what is a "safe-zone" for them.
It's not PvP, it's Cryptic. PvP can bring tons of money, many other games and MMO's are a living proof. In fact, a good PvP system can prolongue the lifetime and revenue from a dying/stagnating game.
If there was functional PvP system in STO, the far-fetched proposal by gulberat for Cryptic to focus on bug fixes, system and QoL improvements for a while instead of new content would be plausible for a while, since the players would have a venue to animate themselves. And probably vastly improving every aspect of the game for everyone.
The problem is Cryptic. If you look back - every single game they made was severely lacking in the area of PvP, not as bad as STO, but pretty bad IMHO.
They don't know PvP. They don't understand PvP. They don't understand balance, it's a foreign concept for them. Just look at the insane rates of power creep in STO. Just look at the power creep that DR brought alone after Geko stated that DR will bring an end to power creep before DR was actually released. lol Balance could hit them on the head and continue beating them for six months and they still wouldn't understand it.
PvP has money in it. A lot. They want to get that money badly. They really do. But they're beyond help, they just can't comprehend PvP and stick to what is a "safe-zone" for them.
well they need to change it fast because the curent trend for online games is pvp.From war thunder ,world of tanks ,planetside 2 ....to fps f2p games ...its all about player vs player.If you add some micromanagement (sto has) and unique and original space design sto could be the best game on the market.People are fed up with princesess and dragons mmos.
I quit doing PVP years ago back when I played WoW. After leaving that game and coming here. I just have no desire to do it again. I loath PVP action, after what happened in those WoW days.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Interestingly, he actually talk sabout the "chicken vs egg" problem, but he has two things that might indicate it's not just simple that problem:
1) His experience on CIty of Heroes was that despite people asking for PvP and playable villains, adding both to the game didn't really create a large interest in it.
2) They also have data about this game, too - and it's not as good as data they have on other topics, but it still suggests the same.
Build and they will come is not actually the automatism people hope it to be.
You can of course always choose to ignore him, or claim he's wrong, or lying. But... you better show some strong examples were this actually worked in other games or something. (And if you have such examples, dissect them and figure out what it took. Maybe the devs can steal the idea and give us awesome PvP, KDF and ROM stories...
Well right, but lets say they introduce their modified pvp map buffs like he suggests. Did they fix anything? No, they did nothing, no work. Now when people don't play that, because its not what this game wants or needs, they can throw their hands up and say that pvp in STO wasn't the right thing. If they want it to fail, it will, if they want it to do well, it needs a complete rework, nothing less will do.
Rift has managed to make a PvE game attractive to your casual player by adding in a weekly pvp reward, the biggest problem is they allow premades into the casual queues and it destroys that match.
Interiors is a good example of how they will rationalize whatever they want with faulty assumptions and data. STO has never had any player housing, starbases and ship interiors are pathetically bad and static. How many posts have we seen that interiors is a failure in STO? It doesn't generate revenue, so there are no plans to do anything about it?
Clearly they have no interest in even trying, I'd guess the engine has no real support for it, but if you listen to their posts its like its been done, it failed so it won't be again, when in fact its never been tried.
PvP hasn't been tried either, it exists, there is no reason to be playing, and even if you do, its not fun...so obviously it just won't work in STO, because somehow its a unique special snowflake of a game?
It's not PvP, it's Cryptic. PvP can bring tons of money, many other games and MMO's are a living proof. In fact, a good PvP system can prolongue the lifetime and revenue from a dying/stagnating game.
If there was functional PvP system in STO, the far-fetched proposal by gulberat for Cryptic to focus on bug fixes, system and QoL improvements for a while instead of new content would be plausible for a while, since the players would have a venue to animate themselves. And probably vastly improving every aspect of the game for everyone.
The problem is Cryptic. If you look back - every single game they made was severely lacking in the area of PvP, not as bad as STO, but pretty bad IMHO.
They don't know PvP. They don't understand PvP. They don't understand balance, it's a foreign concept for them. Just look at the insane rates of power creep in STO. Just look at the power creep that DR brought alone after Geko stated that DR will bring an end to power creep before DR was actually released. lol Balance could hit them on the head and continue beating them for six months and they still wouldn't understand it.
PvP has money in it. A lot. They want to get that money badly. They really do. But they're beyond help, they just can't comprehend PvP and stick to what is a "safe-zone" for them.
Yes! This is what I have been saying over and over but "I'm an idiot." Yeah right. Effing Loosers. If you love pvp so much go play another game. DOLTS.
Yes! This is what I have been saying over and over but "I'm an idiot." Yeah right. Effing Loosers. If you love pvp so much go play another game. DOLTS.
Excuse me, was this "idiots & effing losers" adressed at me or...?? Honest question, I genuinely can't tell from your reply if it's adressed at me or someone else.
pvp is dead surgical strikes 3 is op it almost 100% shield penetration, the more resist you hull has the faster you die so get rid of the resist
Actually, you will notice that you will die way easier and more from BO and Rapid Fire.
SS is slow and only effective if you're somehow prevented from having sufficient defense.
In fact there are so many situation dependent factors it's not easy to name them all,
from 1p having flanking spec vs 2p not having Dodge, 1p having MKXIV weapons vs 2p having inapropriate shields, no resists, no timed buffs, no clears or heals, or team.
There was and is and it should always be a possibility for someone to time their buffs to kill/survive.
That's the whole point.
Killing a high hull, high shields, extreme fast healing tank requires precise timing, debuffs and it must be done in seconds, in gap between healing and/or resist buffs. In crosshealing team scenario it requires even more. And ships that can deliver such damage must also survive being exposed those few seconds with way lower resists then their target.
Anyway. To repeat.There is absolutely no reason that PvP in STO could be good, better, exciting at least as before RnD and DR.
No one would lose anything and game would get back hundreds paying customers that played PvP.
It's a win-win.
Some also forget that all PvPers also play episodes, PvE and other stuff, but while some RPrs invest in toon races, costumes etc. PvPers spend on ships and gear.
Yeah, it can be unbalanced if a newbie with no knowledge of game mechanics and/or with weak gear comes to face long time players, but that is so simple to fix.
Balanced matchmaking through leaderboard(a LOT of data can be assimilated from Hilbert's leaderboards to start from), through gear, level, ship class(lobi, fleet, c-store), spec level etc.
Also one additional solution is through expanding on private custom games to allow gear/ship, level and class restrictions, so people can join games with/without something they (don't) like.
It takes not a big effort but gain can be good.
Just take a look at good ground maps for PvP/PvE battlezones like Kobali Prime and Dyson, also team PvP maps like from Defend Rh'lhho Station or elachi station from What's Left Behind episode. PvP on those maps would be great and it would be fun for broad audience.
Also some space maps with hazards and obstacles could be great for space PvP like Azure Nebula and similar To refresh space pvp maps a bit.
There is no valid reason not to do it.
Resources are there, maps are there, mechanics for ground combat are there, space combat mechanics need some balancing to avoid chain stuns from Intel abilities and like I said Matchmaking, PvP specific rewards, even a reputation system(which would only be good if matchmaking is present so new players don't get in matches with veterans)
The PvP-hate is strong in this thread. Though I am curious, why do you all hate on PvP so much when it is basically a non-factor anymore? (IMO at least) Seriously? There's a LOT more issues with the game then bashing on PvP and PvPers nowadays. If this was even a year ago, then I could understand, but with DR hitting last year really gave PvP quite the mortal wound. Don't see why people still need to hate on it at all.
Hate on the actual issues with the game, not on PvP or PvPers.
I'm not so sure it is hating PvP as much as people are sick of it, and I can't say I blame a lot of people for feeling that way. I mean I'll try and keep this concise but from where I'm sitting there's a few issues that have always been prevalent.
The first is that the regular PvPer's are a minority, which I happen to remember even one of the devs said that the regular PvP community is so small it does affect the willingness to add content for them. I'd be interested if anyone could actually dig up where that was from because I remember that vividly. It does then beg the question why PvP would ever get revamped in the first place when that's the line you hear on the state it is in.
Secondly, there is a similar issue to why many people hate on the DPS League folks. That's that some of the folks who make the noise are detestable little nobody's who think it's okay to belittle others for even remotely going against what they say, whether intentional or not. When those people are what most people see come out of those communities you can't blame them for taking a disliking to them. After all, most times I see people get hated upon it is usually because they've given people a reason to, sane and respectable people making the same point generally don't get given grief.
As to why the PvPer's are being beaten on now after all the other issues that got introduced? I have a feeling that's self-inflicted after that disgusting BS in the thread regarding the new EP. Going back to my second point, that was just a perfect case in point of what happens when the wastrels get vocal and attack anything and everything for no good reason, it just makes a mockery of the community and achieves little else.
Now of course Cryptic really need to get their act together over the game, this whole thing with DR is just a complete mess. However as nice as it would be for the game to work for everyone, it doesn't give anyone the license to belittle others in a demeaning manner.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
i noticed hardly anyone pvps anyone know why? i have pvped one time it lasted 8 sec i got one shot off before dieing and i am lvl 60 with 57k hull and 20.3k shield i thought my loss was because i am green when it comes to pvp on sto . i am going to try again when i have full fleet/rep gear or am i wasting my time?
In a word: incompetence. All they know is selling powercreep for $$$ which results in gameplay that is completely unbalanced. Only the people who go all the way on everything and buy all the latest stuff can compete. There is no room for the masses, and its not worth the effort or money to buy into the final tier.
i am going to try again when i have full fleet/rep gear or am i wasting my time?
waste of time... even if you buy all the way into it, they will just obsolete all your stuff with T7 ships the next time they need to shake the money tree.
Comments
oh, must be those "star trek fans" i heard off?!:rolleyes: sry, couldn't resist
yup logging into warthunder, it's different every time something i wash sto had i don't want to know whats going to happen every single time i log in and queue up pve to the point where i don't even have to look at the screen
so fricking true! oh the potential *grabs his meds*
i was in closed beta.I only played pvp and all my friends left after DR.All pvp players who spent money and time to understand the game left.All the people who used to queue for pvp and have matches with and against are now gone.Compared to pve players we in pvp have lots of things to debate....borgs dont make anything original and unexpected...people do that in pvp .
Sadly they ruined it with traits and broken ships.Even follow target camera is no longer enough for how fast escorts (which now have lt cmd eng station and can use epte3) move.10km weapon range is not enough ,everything is 1 bind to rule them all .Tactics are gone ,timing powers is gone ,counting on a dedicated healer is gone.There is no other game with pvp like sto used to have.
s4 and s5 had the best pvp.They only need to get that game and make a pvp tutorial for it ...done pvp fixed.Then some maps or something original or something to make people spend money in.You dont need tons of new content to keep pvp interesting ...every match is different .
back in the day you could level up a toon in few hours and get it ready for pvp.What took time was to polish the build .For example you could get easy a ship with 4dhc with normal mods but it took time to get it all accx3 and best mk XII consoles.Thing is the diffrence between normal gear and best gear was not like is now...you could fight a person with best gear and win .It was all about timing powers .
Why?
Because Star Trek Online will never be about PvP. No matter how hard your heads are.
Catch this before it goes over your heads: If PvP yielded ANYTHING good or MONEY, money, money, Cryptic would have made it work by now.
Five years later.
No PvP.
Ground Control to Major Tom?
The Pattern is Full.
pvp games are in top 10 steam charts all the time.You clearly are a pve nOOblet (clearly better than hard head)...you know those that were used by cryptic to make the game like it is now.Like Geko you have not even a single clue why some games are played and while others are TRIBBLE.STO is not in top 10 games ....pvp only games are in top 10.Old pve mmos will be soon a thing of the past.
It's not PvP, it's Cryptic. PvP can bring tons of money, many other games and MMO's are a living proof. In fact, a good PvP system can prolongue the lifetime and revenue from a dying/stagnating game.
If there was functional PvP system in STO, the far-fetched proposal by gulberat for Cryptic to focus on bug fixes, system and QoL improvements for a while instead of new content would be plausible for a while, since the players would have a venue to animate themselves. And probably vastly improving every aspect of the game for everyone.
The problem is Cryptic. If you look back - every single game they made was severely lacking in the area of PvP, not as bad as STO, but pretty bad IMHO.
They don't know PvP. They don't understand PvP. They don't understand balance, it's a foreign concept for them. Just look at the insane rates of power creep in STO. Just look at the power creep that DR brought alone after Geko stated that DR will bring an end to power creep before DR was actually released. lol
PvP has money in it. A lot. They want to get that money badly. They really do. But they're beyond help, they just can't comprehend PvP and stick to what is a "safe-zone" for them.
well they need to change it fast because the curent trend for online games is pvp.From war thunder ,world of tanks ,planetside 2 ....to fps f2p games ...its all about player vs player.If you add some micromanagement (sto has) and unique and original space design sto could be the best game on the market.People are fed up with princesess and dragons mmos.
now your saying pvp never yielded any thing good or money? you just mean in sto right?
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Let's see. I like Star Trek because.... (Choose one)
1.) It was the only thing on TV at that timeslot worth watching.
2.) The commercials were cool.
3.) The show I wanted to watch was next.
4.) Starships decorated in pastels.
5.) Some of the stories/episodes were pretty good
What is this? We now rating people's fandom? :rolleyes:
Well right, but lets say they introduce their modified pvp map buffs like he suggests. Did they fix anything? No, they did nothing, no work. Now when people don't play that, because its not what this game wants or needs, they can throw their hands up and say that pvp in STO wasn't the right thing. If they want it to fail, it will, if they want it to do well, it needs a complete rework, nothing less will do.
Rift has managed to make a PvE game attractive to your casual player by adding in a weekly pvp reward, the biggest problem is they allow premades into the casual queues and it destroys that match.
Interiors is a good example of how they will rationalize whatever they want with faulty assumptions and data. STO has never had any player housing, starbases and ship interiors are pathetically bad and static. How many posts have we seen that interiors is a failure in STO? It doesn't generate revenue, so there are no plans to do anything about it?
Clearly they have no interest in even trying, I'd guess the engine has no real support for it, but if you listen to their posts its like its been done, it failed so it won't be again, when in fact its never been tried.
PvP hasn't been tried either, it exists, there is no reason to be playing, and even if you do, its not fun...so obviously it just won't work in STO, because somehow its a unique special snowflake of a game?
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Yes! This is what I have been saying over and over but "I'm an idiot." Yeah right. Effing Loosers. If you love pvp so much go play another game. DOLTS.
Excuse me, was this "idiots & effing losers" adressed at me or...??
Actually, you will notice that you will die way easier and more from BO and Rapid Fire.
SS is slow and only effective if you're somehow prevented from having sufficient defense.
In fact there are so many situation dependent factors it's not easy to name them all,
from 1p having flanking spec vs 2p not having Dodge, 1p having MKXIV weapons vs 2p having inapropriate shields, no resists, no timed buffs, no clears or heals, or team.
There was and is and it should always be a possibility for someone to time their buffs to kill/survive.
That's the whole point.
Killing a high hull, high shields, extreme fast healing tank requires precise timing, debuffs and it must be done in seconds, in gap between healing and/or resist buffs. In crosshealing team scenario it requires even more. And ships that can deliver such damage must also survive being exposed those few seconds with way lower resists then their target.
Anyway. To repeat.There is absolutely no reason that PvP in STO could be good, better, exciting at least as before RnD and DR.
No one would lose anything and game would get back hundreds paying customers that played PvP.
It's a win-win.
Some also forget that all PvPers also play episodes, PvE and other stuff, but while some RPrs invest in toon races, costumes etc. PvPers spend on ships and gear.
Yeah, it can be unbalanced if a newbie with no knowledge of game mechanics and/or with weak gear comes to face long time players, but that is so simple to fix.
Balanced matchmaking through leaderboard(a LOT of data can be assimilated from Hilbert's leaderboards to start from), through gear, level, ship class(lobi, fleet, c-store), spec level etc.
Also one additional solution is through expanding on private custom games to allow gear/ship, level and class restrictions, so people can join games with/without something they (don't) like.
It takes not a big effort but gain can be good.
Just take a look at good ground maps for PvP/PvE battlezones like Kobali Prime and Dyson, also team PvP maps like from Defend Rh'lhho Station or elachi station from What's Left Behind episode. PvP on those maps would be great and it would be fun for broad audience.
Also some space maps with hazards and obstacles could be great for space PvP like Azure Nebula and similar To refresh space pvp maps a bit.
There is no valid reason not to do it.
Resources are there, maps are there, mechanics for ground combat are there, space combat mechanics need some balancing to avoid chain stuns from Intel abilities and like I said Matchmaking, PvP specific rewards, even a reputation system(which would only be good if matchmaking is present so new players don't get in matches with veterans)
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
I'm not so sure it is hating PvP as much as people are sick of it, and I can't say I blame a lot of people for feeling that way. I mean I'll try and keep this concise but from where I'm sitting there's a few issues that have always been prevalent.
The first is that the regular PvPer's are a minority, which I happen to remember even one of the devs said that the regular PvP community is so small it does affect the willingness to add content for them. I'd be interested if anyone could actually dig up where that was from because I remember that vividly. It does then beg the question why PvP would ever get revamped in the first place when that's the line you hear on the state it is in.
Secondly, there is a similar issue to why many people hate on the DPS League folks. That's that some of the folks who make the noise are detestable little nobody's who think it's okay to belittle others for even remotely going against what they say, whether intentional or not. When those people are what most people see come out of those communities you can't blame them for taking a disliking to them. After all, most times I see people get hated upon it is usually because they've given people a reason to, sane and respectable people making the same point generally don't get given grief.
As to why the PvPer's are being beaten on now after all the other issues that got introduced? I have a feeling that's self-inflicted after that disgusting BS in the thread regarding the new EP. Going back to my second point, that was just a perfect case in point of what happens when the wastrels get vocal and attack anything and everything for no good reason, it just makes a mockery of the community and achieves little else.
Now of course Cryptic really need to get their act together over the game, this whole thing with DR is just a complete mess. However as nice as it would be for the game to work for everyone, it doesn't give anyone the license to belittle others in a demeaning manner.
Because PVP, much like Aquaman, sucks...
Aquaman in Batman: The Brave and the Bold was pretty awesome.
In a word: incompetence. All they know is selling powercreep for $$$ which results in gameplay that is completely unbalanced. Only the people who go all the way on everything and buy all the latest stuff can compete. There is no room for the masses, and its not worth the effort or money to buy into the final tier.
waste of time... even if you buy all the way into it, they will just obsolete all your stuff with T7 ships the next time they need to shake the money tree.