A Borg faction sounds cool, but wouldn't really work in-game.
How would you play if you had no individuality? Would the game "force" missions upon you and "force" you to complete them in a perfect way? How would you fly your ship if the collective controls their ships?
In order to create a Borg faction STO would either need to totally break Trek canon and invent some way that Borg have individuality or create a faction that you have to follow every single thing the collective tells you or you self destruct and end up saying "This game is not fun".
Borg individuality was made cannon by three episodes in cannon, TNG Descent part 1 and 2, Voy Unity and Unimatrix Zero part 1 and 2. Unimatrix could a good reason as to why we could play as borg and use borg ships. Food for thought
Yes this would be cool but would not work in many many way's Mostly be cause Life subs all ready have a Liberated Borg Officer.First you guys where stuck on the Romulan's.
No we do not need a Borg Faction mostly be cause it would be point less.I have enough of a hard time keeping up with the KDF and Fed's if they come out with another Faction it will make it three times harder to keep up with 3 Faction's.
But yes we do need some thing new But it will not be Borg.The Borg are all ready Nerfed as it is.We do not need a Nerfed Faction.
The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.
Borg individuality was made cannon by three episodes in cannon, TNG Descent part 1 and 2, Voy Unity and Unimatrix Zero part 1 and 2. Unimatrix could a good reason as to why we could play as borg and use borg ships. Food for thought
All of those were not part of the collective.
In other words they were not actual Borg any more.
Either people want Borg in which case your own mentioned episodes don't apply or they don't want to play actual Borg.
OH BTW, it's canon, not cannon.
The former means it's an accepted part of the franchise's history while the other refers to a gun.:)
I say if you want a Borg go pay for a Lifetime Membership. They aren't that great (Alien and Joined Trill are better for gamers) but if it's what you want I can appreciate that and I say go for it!
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Nope, you're wrong. The Borg are a collective and the Queen is the personification of that collective. She does not control the Borg, she is the Borg using a single female voice. Remember what the queen said in "First Contact"?
"You imply a disparity where none exists. I am the collective."
The Borg "designations" you speak of like the Queen or Locutus or 7 of 9 are actually controlled by the will of the collective. All their actions are compelled by the will of the collective and they cannot do otherwise. They are also the voice of the collective.
So no, you can't play as one of them and still have free will. They are not separate from the other drones. They just seem separate because they speak with their own voices and you mistakenly assume that means they have free will.
Keep persisting if you like, but know that you will never have this your way. No Borg for you.
Soild Post. Now everyone that wants the Borg as playable can 'suck it up' :P
PS: Borg outside of the collective (such as mentioned above from Unimatrix) are no longer Borg. Once drones regain their individuality, they're essentially defaulting back to the species they were before, only with some vast cybernetic implants.
The Borg ARE a Collective mind. You can't have them any other way.
Nope, you're wrong. The Borg are a collective and the Queen is the personification of that collective. She does not control the Borg, she is the Borg using a single female voice. Remember what the queen said in "First Contact"?
"You imply a disparity where none exists. I am the collective."
The Borg "designations" you speak of like the Queen or Locutus or 7 of 9 are actually controlled by the will of the collective. All their actions are compelled by the will of the collective and they cannot do otherwise. They are also the voice of the collective.
.
Did you even watch the same series or first contact? The whole point of those individuals was because they needed individuals with their own thoughts to come up with unique idea's because as the collective alone they couldn't do it. Plus even without those type of Borg's there's still the civil war that was caused by the malfunctioning Borg that involved Unimatrix Zero.
There's a reason she's called the 'Queen', in first contact she claims that she desires a semi-independent non-Borg being as an intellectual companion with Data........
Basically meaning that She's a certain type of that were moderatly indepedent, can hear the Borg thoughts separately while having her own agenda. She does not think as one entity with the Borg which is why she tells the Janeway that she told the Borg to keep away from Voyager which means she is an individual. She could of said we stopped but instead she choose to say she told them to not to. The normal drones always say something like 'we will assimilate' which we all know means we but not implying individualness.
I really do love reading threads like this, its great to see people debating over something like this.
there are valid facts on both sides of the argument.....However.......
IF they did do a Borg faction then it would get very boring VERY fast...fly....assimilate.....land...assimilate.....ect ect because those are the only missions you could do with any realism.....
but to offer a happy medium.....why not throw in to both the klingon and star fleet missions one where you become a part of the collective for a short while, not fully assimilated but i am sure with MAKO and omega force they could some "tech" that could filtrate the collective for a few missions.....however as a trade of you would get some borg tech as rewards for the char your playing as?
but i suggest an alternative to a faction, which is if you want to "borg out" or somethng
your borg, your on the enemy team in stf's and pve's
you get to see all fedewration communica'
you have a star base to go to but its just race assimilated borg standing around sand you can to, and type like, i am borg . before getting botred and going back to an STF or pve to get bored to
and if your like the best bvorg you get a sphere for pvp
no changes needed
no faction mneeded
to get unassimilated lose to a science ship- but you have to go out of that instance
IF they did do a Borg faction then it would get very boring VERY fast...fly....assimilate.....land...assimilate.....ect ect because those are the only missions you could do with any realism.....
I couldn't agree less since there's more going on with the Borg. With the federation people can assume all they do is make peace with races but instead there's betrayel, conflict between things like section 8. The difference with the Borg they can't always assimilate all races.
Plus personally I find the klink faction quite bland, personally for me the Borg tend to make things a bit more interesting. It would also mean it could lead to more crossover plots like the origin of vger or how the Borg queen was cloned or escaped the cube in first contact. It would also fill in the plot holes. The borg faction could even be part of the resistance movement where they use the technology heavily to fight the normal Borg.
As for the haters of playable Borg 'nobody' is forcing you to play as them. Anyway I wanted this faction because it's what has interested many people since launch. :rolleyes:
1) As the Borg need an AI to actually be Borg, then you could play as the Borg queen/king, this would be strange with 100 or so Borg queen's/king's.
2) As the Borg can adapt, they finally found a way to prevent the federation from uploading viruses to the Borg, they put an additional semi-independent AI (captain) in each Borg vessel, and you get to play as that semi independent "AI"
The Borg should never, ever be a playable race. The race as a whole got stale in Voyager because Voyager used them all the time as episode plots eventually. They became over exposed and ceased to be a problem for the crew. Not to mention balancing game mechanics to adjust for them, how would get around adaption? How could you explain being an individual in the Collective? Even Locutus was under the Queens control.
With that said, I wouldnt mind seeing a playable Borg ship in game. Its quite reasonable to say that the Federation, The KDF and I suppose, the Romulan Republic to have uncovered crashed Borg probes on planets and have gutted them. Removed their collective Node and retrofitted them. I'm not saying we should ever have playable Borg Cubes, Spheres or Diamonds but heck, why not a Probe like the one the NX-01 encounters in Enterprise?
THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS TRYULIS Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
Another, probably more valid idea would be that when and/or if you get stabbed with those assimilation nano-probes you start a mini mission where you assimilate others instead of getting killed 10-20 seconds into the 4:59 timer that shows up, and as a Borg "drone" your health bar gradually gains strength when you adapt to certain types of damage.
Suggestions for playable borg appear every so often probably due to there being liberated borg already in the game. In my opinion, the only way playable borg will exist is if it is based on the Borg Cooperative from Voyager, Hugh's group from TNG, or the Collective splits apart due to the loss of the Borg Queen from the last STF. We still would have regular Borg, but more would escape and have individual traits.
The essence of the Borg would have to change before we can get playable borg so no assimilating countless worlds. Playable Borg would essentially be a victim race like Romulans or Cardassians.
A slightly more realistic way to do the ship progression would be that you start off with a probe and then work your way up through the escort/cruiser/science trees of assimilated alien ships, maybe delta quadrant species, to pad t out a little. Rather than the standard promotions, the Borg queen increased your priority/altered your designation based on your success, or maybe a minigame/cutscene where you get to assimilate a replacement char? Something along those lines, perhaps?
That way it sort of Borgifies the experience without changing the internal workings of the game too much. Also, if we get to play as Borg, I'll forgive Cryptic for the WOEFULLY short Borg campaign, I mean c'mon, only four misssions and an end game grind-fest? I am dissapoint.
So PLEEEEEAAAAAAASE give us this? Pretty please? *puppy eyes*
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.
We've just barely got a Romulan faction and people are already bellyaching for a pseudo-borg faction? Needy people..... If you do however do this many years down the road, leave it solely as a lifetime perk because anything resembling a playable borg is reserved only for those who put the cash up front...
Well since Into the Hive is being worked on/finished, one possible outcome from the death of the Queen could be a restructuring of the Collective. The Borg might decide to wait before sharing the information with the rest of the collective to see if there is anything dangerous to them, having each ship act as its own mini collective would be a simple fix, the Boffs and Doff system would fit in nicely that way. As for ships, a bird of prey style setup (universal stations) for all ships would seem natural. Probe for the escort, Sphere for the science ship and Scout Cube (my own idea, Cubes are 3km on each side, Scout Cubes are 1.5km on each side) for the cruiser line.
Given that this is a necro thread I'll repost my original comment on the subject. I was #9.
Playable Borg is a very inviting concept, however, I highly doubt it will ever happen. We may see the odd playable ship (would prove extremely popular and people would pay handsomely). If it does ever happen, it'll more likely be the Borg Cooperative.
*Yes I know, this thread is old, but it came up upon searching*
Much of the previous argument against the Borg as a faction race depends on the "individual" component. As a federation officer, I am given orders to follow. How I follow them leads to either success or failure. The illusion of choice may be given in some circumstances but the result "mostly" remains the same. There are some occasions these days that give choices, but many of the core missions once upon a time had 2 major outcomes.
As a Borg race, it could be very much the same. Breaking canon means a complete overhaul of the species verses a playable faction.
One could argue that they wouldn't be warlike and engage other species unless deemed a threat or for assimilation. However the Borg are actively engaged in war with the races at present; that solves that issue.
The story direction could follow along a line of civil war; a true Borg faction, seeking the re-assimilation or obliteration of all entities formerly of the Collective. I liked the one suggestion, that the player would represent a voice of the Collective. A voice representing a Tactical, Technologist (engineering), or Scientific focus of the Collective.
As a Borg purist I would love to play this faction; to experience "their" side of the story.
I can understand, on a strict sense, for the sake of universe, that watching a true Borg sprint around an event to gain trinkets to unlock a Breen vessel would look ridiculous. Yes it could be explained. (Q can do anything he really wants) but from that same perspective, would a Vulcan do that? A Klingon? We can weigh down opportunity in the name of universe, but like every other MMO I've played, the immersion is broken for the sake of playability and fun.
I learned to let go of that issue a long time ago. Just because I will take it as a serious role to play as a Borg, doesn't mean everyone else will; and why should they be required too? It is, in fact, a game.
I confess, I'm behind in this game. Started years ago, missed a lot of changes, additions. The Romulan faction was a wonderful addition. But I'm still looking for an Armada fix; to be the Borg, to fly a Cube, to assimilate worlds. I know I'm not the only one out there.
Comments
Borg individuality was made cannon by three episodes in cannon, TNG Descent part 1 and 2, Voy Unity and Unimatrix Zero part 1 and 2. Unimatrix could a good reason as to why we could play as borg and use borg ships. Food for thought
No we do not need a Borg Faction mostly be cause it would be point less.I have enough of a hard time keeping up with the KDF and Fed's if they come out with another Faction it will make it three times harder to keep up with 3 Faction's.
But yes we do need some thing new But it will not be Borg.The Borg are all ready Nerfed as it is.We do not need a Nerfed Faction.
All of those were not part of the collective.
In other words they were not actual Borg any more.
Either people want Borg in which case your own mentioned episodes don't apply or they don't want to play actual Borg.
OH BTW, it's canon, not cannon.
The former means it's an accepted part of the franchise's history while the other refers to a gun.:)
PS: Borg outside of the collective (such as mentioned above from Unimatrix) are no longer Borg. Once drones regain their individuality, they're essentially defaulting back to the species they were before, only with some vast cybernetic implants.
The Borg ARE a Collective mind. You can't have them any other way.
Did you even watch the same series or first contact? The whole point of those individuals was because they needed individuals with their own thoughts to come up with unique idea's because as the collective alone they couldn't do it. Plus even without those type of Borg's there's still the civil war that was caused by the malfunctioning Borg that involved Unimatrix Zero.
There's a reason she's called the 'Queen', in first contact she claims that she desires a semi-independent non-Borg being as an intellectual companion with Data........
Basically meaning that She's a certain type of that were moderatly indepedent, can hear the Borg thoughts separately while having her own agenda. She does not think as one entity with the Borg which is why she tells the Janeway that she told the Borg to keep away from Voyager which means she is an individual. She could of said we stopped but instead she choose to say she told them to not to. The normal drones always say something like 'we will assimilate' which we all know means we but not implying individualness.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
I really do love reading threads like this, its great to see people debating over something like this.
there are valid facts on both sides of the argument.....However.......
IF they did do a Borg faction then it would get very boring VERY fast...fly....assimilate.....land...assimilate.....ect ect because those are the only missions you could do with any realism.....
but to offer a happy medium.....why not throw in to both the klingon and star fleet missions one where you become a part of the collective for a short while, not fully assimilated but i am sure with MAKO and omega force they could some "tech" that could filtrate the collective for a few missions.....however as a trade of you would get some borg tech as rewards for the char your playing as?
but i suggest an alternative to a faction, which is if you want to "borg out" or somethng
your borg, your on the enemy team in stf's and pve's
you get to see all fedewration communica'
you have a star base to go to but its just race assimilated borg standing around sand you can to, and type like, i am borg . before getting botred and going back to an STF or pve to get bored to
and if your like the best bvorg you get a sphere for pvp
no changes needed
no faction mneeded
to get unassimilated lose to a science ship- but you have to go out of that instance
these are the facts
they are irrefutable
I couldn't agree less since there's more going on with the Borg. With the federation people can assume all they do is make peace with races but instead there's betrayel, conflict between things like section 8. The difference with the Borg they can't always assimilate all races.
Plus personally I find the klink faction quite bland, personally for me the Borg tend to make things a bit more interesting. It would also mean it could lead to more crossover plots like the origin of vger or how the Borg queen was cloned or escaped the cube in first contact. It would also fill in the plot holes. The borg faction could even be part of the resistance movement where they use the technology heavily to fight the normal Borg.
As for the haters of playable Borg 'nobody' is forcing you to play as them. Anyway I wanted this faction because it's what has interested many people since launch. :rolleyes:
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
1) As the Borg need an AI to actually be Borg, then you could play as the Borg queen/king, this would be strange with 100 or so Borg queen's/king's.
2) As the Borg can adapt, they finally found a way to prevent the federation from uploading viruses to the Borg, they put an additional semi-independent AI (captain) in each Borg vessel, and you get to play as that semi independent "AI"
With that said, I wouldnt mind seeing a playable Borg ship in game. Its quite reasonable to say that the Federation, The KDF and I suppose, the Romulan Republic to have uncovered crashed Borg probes on planets and have gutted them. Removed their collective Node and retrofitted them. I'm not saying we should ever have playable Borg Cubes, Spheres or Diamonds but heck, why not a Probe like the one the NX-01 encounters in Enterprise?
This one
Playable Borg ship, yes. Playable race... no
Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird
Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
TEN FORWARD FLEET
Thats some kind of weard joke, that I don't understand right?
The essence of the Borg would have to change before we can get playable borg so no assimilating countless worlds. Playable Borg would essentially be a victim race like Romulans or Cardassians.
That way it sort of Borgifies the experience without changing the internal workings of the game too much. Also, if we get to play as Borg, I'll forgive Cryptic for the WOEFULLY short Borg campaign, I mean c'mon, only four misssions and an end game grind-fest? I am dissapoint.
So PLEEEEEAAAAAAASE give us this? Pretty please? *puppy eyes*
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.
Given that this is a necro thread I'll repost my original comment on the subject. I was #9.
Undine faction plox
Much of the previous argument against the Borg as a faction race depends on the "individual" component. As a federation officer, I am given orders to follow. How I follow them leads to either success or failure. The illusion of choice may be given in some circumstances but the result "mostly" remains the same. There are some occasions these days that give choices, but many of the core missions once upon a time had 2 major outcomes.
As a Borg race, it could be very much the same. Breaking canon means a complete overhaul of the species verses a playable faction.
One could argue that they wouldn't be warlike and engage other species unless deemed a threat or for assimilation. However the Borg are actively engaged in war with the races at present; that solves that issue.
The story direction could follow along a line of civil war; a true Borg faction, seeking the re-assimilation or obliteration of all entities formerly of the Collective. I liked the one suggestion, that the player would represent a voice of the Collective. A voice representing a Tactical, Technologist (engineering), or Scientific focus of the Collective.
As a Borg purist I would love to play this faction; to experience "their" side of the story.
I can understand, on a strict sense, for the sake of universe, that watching a true Borg sprint around an event to gain trinkets to unlock a Breen vessel would look ridiculous. Yes it could be explained. (Q can do anything he really wants) but from that same perspective, would a Vulcan do that? A Klingon? We can weigh down opportunity in the name of universe, but like every other MMO I've played, the immersion is broken for the sake of playability and fun.
I learned to let go of that issue a long time ago. Just because I will take it as a serious role to play as a Borg, doesn't mean everyone else will; and why should they be required too? It is, in fact, a game.
I confess, I'm behind in this game. Started years ago, missed a lot of changes, additions. The Romulan faction was a wonderful addition. But I'm still looking for an Armada fix; to be the Borg, to fly a Cube, to assimilate worlds. I know I'm not the only one out there.
Just my 2 cents.
Unless it's in the F.C.T topic.
Then you don't make that thread. EVER. :mad:
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Hmm nope...I can't think of a condition or situation that says we need a Borg faction.
I'd love a couple Borg Cubes as hangar pets.
Enemy approaching Captain! Weapons are charged!
(Captain smirks) Launch all shuttles.