so rather than using a carrot and a stick , just use the stick. bad choice.
Rather than fix the obvious issues with the power creep and the elitist playing styles just play catch up to the broken mechanics by throwing more damage and weaken the defenses of the friendly NPCs brilliant . and decreasing timers so the rest of the player base needs to be like the 10% elitist DPSers in order to do Advanced missions?.
it would be the true nature of the beast, weeks to follow when the ones in there see the changes to the timers. it should not be about DPS race, i fought claw and nail to get up there, and i can see it is not going to bring more happy tree friends lol
I know I posted earlier some negative things with regards some of the updates going on, specifically the timers... I was trying to be realistic, as a LTS and somewhat casual player.
Content-wise, I really do appreciate what DR has brought, namely letting us explore the Delta Quadrant and encounter some of the former crew of Voyager, with their in-game selves being voiced by the actors who portrayed the characters we saw on the show. Playing through the Delta
Quadrant content has gotten me to go back and rewatch several Voyager episodes that deal directly with the content here, to help me get a clearer picture of things. That, I appreciate.
Without feedback from the devs on why all these changes are going on, I made the mistake of perhaps sounding a bit judgmental. For that, I apologize. Can you guys please help us understand why these changes are taking place? I'm sure it would help folks here to see your perspective. I also am wondering about how you guys arrive at some of these decisions regarding reward changes.
All I ask is that the queue events don't become unplayable / impossible to complete the objectives.
Hey everyone,
We have a post about some of this news going live in just a few minutes.
I will post a link to it here for easy reference.
We will do our best to answer any questions about it in the dedicated thread.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Questions I still have.
1) What is considered an acceptable completion rate?
2) Does the completion rate % separate between pick up groups formed via the queues, premade groups, or a strait combination of both?
3) Can we have even a rough ETA on elite versions of Infected, Cure, and Crystalline Catastrophe.
4) Is advanced difficulty intended to be completed by pick up groups via the queues, or are we expected to preform groups for them.
5) When the XP changes went live it was implied the amount reward by queues would be increased. Currently a single Crystalline Catastrophe run rewards roughly 1/80th of a specialization point. Can we expect that to change? When? By how much?
A suggestion for future; big sweeping game changes should be viewed like constructive criticism. First deploy the buffs, then the nerfs, ending with more buffs. Otherwise you just make people angry with you. Or do it all at once.
Also be accountable. If you are going to post a thread asking for feedback and state you will answer questions inside it you might want to reply to something before page 20. Ignore the posts with vitriol and engage with those who are being constructive and you just might see a change of tone from the community.
You think this would help a possibly dying game?
(SnR,Packetloss,Loadout-Bug,DX-Errors,shrinking Playerbase,many reported heavy Bugs,et cetera pe pe)
Who are the "Mastermind" of this Idea?
Constructive Feedback you wish from us?
A Poll?
Empty Queues are a reported Bug?
I think you dont respect your own loyal Playerbase-/-Feedback and think we are stupid as hell.
Play your own Game WITHOUT Godmode and you will see what is going wrong here.
or...
you see a incoming Game Over.
Star Trek Online is going down. No one with a brain need this explained. No need for another braindead-poll. play your own game without cheating and then we can discuss.
At this time my wallet are close for Guys who think i'm dumb as hell.
You give me a big F U instead of a true response
1) What is considered an acceptable completion rate?
2) Does the completion rate % separate between pick up groups formed via the queues, premade groups, or a strait combination of both?
3) Can we have even a rough ETA on elite versions of Infected, Cure, and Crystalline Catastrophe.
4) Is advanced difficulty intended to be completed by pick up groups via the queues, or are we expected to preform groups for them.
5) When the XP changes went live it was implied the amount reward by queues would be increased. Currently a single Crystalline Catastrophe run rewards roughly 1/80th of a specialization point. Can we expect that to change? When? By how much?
A suggestion for future; big sweeping game changes should be viewed like constructive criticism. First deploy the buffs, then the nerfs, ending with more buffs. Otherwise you just make people angry with you. Or do it all at once.
Also be accountable. If you are going to post a thread asking for feedback and state you will answer questions inside it you might want to reply to something before page 20. Ignore the posts with vitriol and engage with those who are being constructive and you just might see a change of tone from the community.
Excellent questions, hopefully they will be answered.
I'm still bemused and puzzled by this. I only do certain queues as the rest can take an hour to pop if you're lucky and the rest that pop in a reasonable time (sub 30mins these days :eek:) I don't enjoy as much.
I'm hopeful that any further posts on this will be open about why this is happening.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
There appears to be an issue, imho, of folks not knowing what's been in the release notes since the release of Delta Rising. Some of it may be cherry picking on their part and some of it may simply be a case of not having looked at the notes themselves and just parroting what they have heard. I did not include any notes about VO being added or costumes or the like, yadda - yadda - yadda. Basically a look at how one might find themselves doing a /facepalm based on some of the things said out there...
October 23rd, 2014
The Skill Points and Expertise rewarded for defeating NPCs below the player's current level have been updated.
---They now correctly scale starting at one level below the player.
---Defeating NPCs that are 5 levels below you now properly award far less skill points and expertise to prevent exploitative gameplay.
The Skill Point bonus for teaming has been corrected.
---The team bonus with the launch of Delta Rising was incorrect and it has now been reduced.
All Patrols and Deep Space Encounters in the Tau Dewa Sector now spawn NPCs at the correct level.
The rewards for many of the PVE Space queues have been updated.
---Normal Mode:
35 Marks for completion.
10 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Advanced Mode:
50 Marks for completion.
25 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Elite Mode:
80 Marks for completion.
20 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---These changes affect the following queues:
Atmosphere Assault
Borg Disconnected
Infected: The Conduit
Khitomer Vortex
Storming the Spire
The Breach
The Cure Found
The Vault: Ensnared
Undine Assault
Viscous Cycle
The rewards for many of the PVE Ground queues have been updated.
---Normal Mode:
45 Marks for completion.
10 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Advanced Mode:
65 Marks for completion.
25 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Elite Mode:
95 Marks for completion.
20 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---These changes affect the following queues:
Infected: Manus
Into the Hive
Khitomer in Stasis
The Cure Applied
Undine Infiltration
Updated several PVE queues and their rewards.
---No Win Scenario:
NPCs now spawn at the correct difficulty level.
Advanced and Elite modes now award the correct crafting pack for beating wave 8 or higher.
---Crystalline Catastrophe:
The HP of the Crystalline Entity has been significantly reduced in Advanced mode.
The regeneration rate of the Crystalline Entity has been reduced and no longer scales during the later stages of the battle.
---"Atmosphere Assault" Advanced mode now correctly places players into the Advanced difficulty map when queued.
---"Vault Shuttle Event" now grants all the listed rewards instead of forcing only one to be chosen.
---"Khitomer Vortex" now correctly awards players 10 Marks for failing.
---"Nukara Prime: Self-Destructive Tendencies" Advanced mode now correctly rewards 10 Marks for failing.
Resolved an issue that resulted in the XP earn rate for skill points to be incorrect.
---Prior to Delta Risings launch, the XP earn rate for defeating an Elite NPC was 1.75 times that earned from defeating a Normal NPC.
---With the launch of Delta Rising, that value was incorrectly changed to cause the player to earn 5.0 times the amount of XP earned from defeating an Elite NPC compared to defeating a Normal NPC.
---This update will set the skill point earn rate for defeating Elite NPCs to 2.0 times that earned from defeating a Normal NPC.
Resolved an issue that resulted in the XP earn rate for skill points to be incorrect.
---This update will set the skill point earn rate to 2.0x normal.
Prior to Delta Rising the earn rate was 1.75x normal.
Reduced the Skill Point requirement for each Starship Mastery level by 33%.
---No earned Ship Mastery Skill Points will be removed from players ships.
---Players who are in the process of leveling up a Starship Mastery level will have the Mastery level of the ship increase to match the 33% decrease in points required.
The difficulty of space NPCS has been updated for the 50-60 level range.
---In Normal mode, all space NPCs have had their Hull and Shields slightly reduced.
---In Advanced mode, all space NPCs have had their Hull and Shields slightly reduced.
Shields are reduced more than Hull.
---In Elite mode, all space NPCs have had their Hull increased and Shields reduced slightly.
---These changes apply to all space NPCs in:
All level 50-60 content episodes.
All level 50-60 patrols missions.
All level 50-60 PVE queues.
November 6th, 2014
Increased Dilithium rewards for all PvE queues.
---Normal queues will reward 360 Dilithium upon successful completion.
---Advanced queues reward 720 Dilithium upon successful completion.
---Elite queues reward 1440 Dilithium upon successful completion.
Updated the reward rates of R&D Materials in the Advance version of queues to guarantee that one Very Rare R&D Material is received inside each pack.
Increased Dilithium rewards by 50% in Adventure Zones and Battle Zones.
---For example, if the Dilithium reward for an Adventure Zone mission was 10, it will now be 15.
Space NPC ships level 50-60 have had their Hit Points reduced.
---This change affects Space NPC ships in Normal and Advanced modes.
---Hit Points have not been altered for Space NPCs in Elite mode.
Resolved an issue where level 60 NPCs were not dropping the appropritate amount of items when defeated.
---Level 60 NPCs should now drop items other than devices and commodities with slightly more frequency than before, when defeated.
November 13th, 2014
Reduced the Skill Point requirement to go from level 0-5 in Starship Mastery by roughly 50%.
---No earned Ship Mastery Skill Points will be removed from player's ships.
---Players who are in the process of leveling up a Starship Mastery level will have the Mastery level of the ship increase to match the roughly 50% decrease in points required.
November 20th, 2014
Updated the Battle of Korfez PvE Queue.
---Added a failure reward for completing the gate check but then failing at any other part of the queue.
---Resolved an issue where a required ship to defeat became stuck in an asteroid and could not be destroyed.
Updated rewards for Fleet Actions queues to the following:
---720 Dilithium for completion
---Normal Crafting Pack
---20 Fleet Marks
---Skill Points and Expertise Points have been slightly increased in scale.
---This applies to the following queues:
Gorn Minefield
Starbase 24
Klingon Scout Force
Breaking the Planet
The Big Dig
Delta Quadrant Patrol Systems:
---Teammates can now play together on the same Delta Quadrant patrol maps.
Previously, players could only team together if they had the Delta Quadrant mission associated with the patrol system.
Skill Points earned via completing missions and defeating NPCs have been updated.
---The Skill Points earned from playing episodes with captains at levels 50 to 60 have been increased.
Previously, if a player completed a mission at level 49 and was rewarded 3,000 Skill Points, that same mission completed at level 51 would reward much lower than 3,000 Skill Points.
This update makes it so the player, in this scenario stated above, would earn at least 3,000 Skill Points at level 51 instead of the much lower number.
---The amount of Skill Points earned via defeating enemy NPCs will now scale upwards with a player's level.
---A captain's level will not be altered upon logging in.
For example, if a captain is level 53 that captain will still be level 53 upon logging in to Holodeck.
Updated Crystalline Catastrophe:
---Large Crystalline Fragments - Hit Points reduced by 20% on Basic and 50% on Advanced.
---Small Crystalline Fragments - Hit Points reduced by 40% on Advanced.
---Re-Crystalize Buff - Damage Bonus per stack reduced from 2% to 1% for all difficulties.
Damage Bonus now caps at 100 stacks.
---Shatter, Fragment Explosions - Deals approximately 15% less damage.
---Resolved an issue where Small Fragments were causing Physical Damage instead of Kinetic Damage.
Changed the scaling of all carrier fighters' damage, shields, and hit points so they scale relative to the player and not the NPCs.
---Previously, the fighters were scaling at too high of a rate of damage, shields, and hit points.
November 25th, 2014
Daily Mark boxes no longer have the bonus applied to them during Bonus marks Weekend events.
December 4th, 2014
Borg Red Alerts now set Captains and enemies to level 50.
Dyson Sphere Battle Zone: Re-balanced how player's scores are calculated for open missions.
---Previously, missions were being too generous with points for tasks that were not critical to missions and too penalizing on tasks that were critical for missions.
Delta Marks are now offered as a reward choice for the PvE queues Storming the Spire and The Breach.
Delta Quadrant Patrols:
---Doubled the amount of rewarded Skill Points for all Delta Quadrant patrol missions.
---All Delta Quadrant missions reward 10 Delta Marks instead of 5.
---Updated the Parein Patrol reward to include loot since it is a disable all enemies instead of defeat all enemies mission.
Research and Development:
---Reduced the uncommon material costs of uncommon components slightly.
Uncommon components that previously required 5 uncommon materials now require 3.
Uncommon components that previously required 8 uncommon materials now require 7.
---Reduced the rare material costs of rare components moderately.
Rare components that previously required 5 rare materials now require 3.
Rare components that previously required 8 rare materials now require 5.
---Reduced the very rare material costs of very rare components significantly.
Very rare components that previously required 5 rare materials now require 1.
Very rare components that previously required 8 rare materials now require 2.
---Dilithium costs have been left unchanged.
December 11th, 2014
Increased the damage of all Mark 13 and 14 space weapons.
Resolved an issue in the Dyson Sphere Battlezone where players who were teamed were not getting enough credit to earn rewards.
December 12th, 2014
Interacting with generators in the Dyson Sphere Ground Battlezone now applies credit towards the associated open missions.
The PvE queue "Defend Rh'lhho Station" now rewards 10 Marks when failing it in Advanced and Elite modes.
Please don't reduce the rewards the community as a whole has lost too many people already.
The negative changes even if it's a fix should not be done.
Right now you should be moving in a postive PR direction.
Making people sad and upset will only fire up the forums and keep people or drive them away.
Take the advice please this will not go over well with the community.
I'm glad Cryptic is still looking at the queue issue and attempting to improve it. As far as feedback goes I'm all for making the queued content harder. The queues were way too easy prior to Delta Rising and now the queues are way too tedious. The reason the queues are tedious is because the hull/shield pools on NPCs were drastically buffed to the point where it takes a long time to kill anything.
Killing NPCs should be challenging rather than tedious. I understand the need to buff NPC hull/shield mods to compensate for damage increase, but the buff is too extreme on advanced/elite and normal difficulty NPCs are far too weak. One key way to make NPCs more difficult to fight would be to increase their defense rating and add +All Damage Resistance Rating. Another way to improve difficulty would be to add abilities to NPCs while providing them with the code to use them appropriately.
I know for a fact it is possible for NPCs to use abilities intelligently because I've seen how magnificently implemented the Vaadwaur Ground NPCs are in the Delta Rising content. Fighting Vaadwaur Ground NPCs is fairly challenging at higher difficulties and they are fun to fight. In fact, I'm sure Kobali Prime would be a very popular map if the rewards weren't so limiting (7 marks and 90 dilithium for a 15 minute mission isn't worth it.)
Unfortunately this feedback is negative in tone, but I do hope it is helpful.
Perhaps a better solution to populating the public queues would be to increase the rewards for public queuing above that of private queuing. What form that would take, i leave to respectful debate.
Ignore the posts with vitriol and engage with those who are being constructive and you just might see a change of tone from the community.
Cryptic is to blame for all the dissent you see here. Players are not just complaining for the sake of complaining: there's fair reasoning behind all the negativity. A change of tone from the community, for the better, needs to happen as a consequence of reasonable actions coming from Cryptic. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening unless Cryptic completely changes the direction they're going.
Since you do not listen to us anyway (or even bother to listen to the people who do your job on the test servers, using thier own time and effort to find bugs that you ignore and then go on to accuse the player base for 'exploiting').
That is all you deserve now - any goodwill towards you (from me at least) has now expired.
Well, I'll say one thing after my sleep, as a general statement:
It'll take a lot more than this (one change, or a long list of changes) to make me reconsider playing this game - it's fun at the core gameplay XD I don't hate grind for existing, and feel no need to have the best-of-best stuff, or that I need something right now
And I remember working the exploration clusters for Marks of Valor + such, plus still fly the Kar'Fi I bought with Emblems, so I've been here for awhile as my sig would imply. That should say something lol
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The game continues to move in the wrong direction. DR content isn't any more special than pre-DR content is. All queues have the right to survive, & these changes impede that right. We players should also have the right to win queues; this kneejerk reaction to nerfing queue rewards which players are winning at is unacceptable. Your peer MMOs do not engage in these after-the-fact increases in difficulty. Neither should STO.
The Tribble patch notes in this cycle not a kind anniversary gift for STO at all. Once again, you should reconsider the dwindling populations in the queues when making balance changes.
Did it never occur to you that by increasing the difficulty of queues, you have discouraged less-skilled players from participating? And then because there are fewer less-skilled players in the queues, those that remained would be more skilled and artificially inflate the win percentages?
This is the slippery slope upward that you are turning STO into. This is how you eliminate the majority of a population from STO. This is not a healthy decision for the long-term success of the game; as an F2P game, STO should cater to the long tail of unskilled players- not the few who can beat Adv/Eli queues.
This is how you are moving the game in the wrong direction. Do not push this patch to Holodeck!
DPS-Bronze, DPS-Silver, DPS-Gold, etc. are FAKE! They were created by an outvoted minority who destroyed the original DPS channels!
Tactical Team sucked, once upon a time. I got it buffed. Don't think for a minute that Cryptic ignores forum feedback.
Shield array, engines, and deflector = total of 3,000 omega marks. Bad enough grinding that out as it is, now it will take even longer.
So the only explanation to all of this is:
"some events players were completing too fast"
"some events were rewarding too many marks"
Seriously? Why is it that so long after the introduction of the reputation system (2+ years) you decide these are "bugs" that need fixing while other actual game breaking bugs go left unfixed?
It's like you're kicking us in the crotch and asking us afterwards to tell you if it was a good idea to do so and to describe the pain we feel. We can complain about it. But it doesn't change the fact you still kicked us and somewhere down the road you'll just kick us again.
"You will take part in the DR Expansion. You WILL play where and what we tell you, or you will be penalized."
Thanks.
Even long after DR was released, I have pumped my fair share of money and time into this game. I've read so many posts that I thought were from people who were just being dramatic or just wanted to complain for the sake of complaining. That being said, I've been starting to agree with the complaints. Cryptic decided to make many decisions that have ultimately alienated many players. We gave our feedback as to why we were not happy. It seems that Cryptic saw what was pushing people away, and thought, let's do more of that. Let's do exactly what is pissing people off the most, but slowly make it be on a grander scale. Yeah, that'll show them that we care about their feedback and want them to enjoy their experience, and you know, keep playing and giving us money. Well Cryptic, you've lost all of the money in my wallet that might have gone to you. I used to spend quite a bit. No more though. I'll still play, though not as often as I used to play (why should I, so they can keep making it harder and rewarding less?). But I vow not to reward middle fingers to the player base such as this.
Maybe its just me... Head guy leaves, game slowly improves, Head guy comes back, game spirals downward. Now correlation doesn't mean causation but.....
Well, I'll say one thing after my sleep, as a general statement:
It'll take a lot more than this (one change, or a long list of changes) to make me reconsider playing this game - it's fun at the core gameplay XD I don't hate grind for existing, and feel no need to have the best-of-best stuff, or that I need something right now
And I remember working the exploration clusters for Marks of Valor + such, plus still fly the Kar'Fi I bought with Emblems, so I've been here for awhile as my sig would imply. That should say something lol
For me, it's been a gradual wear and tear sort of thing. Hasn't been the omgherd, that's it, I'm out of here thing...it's just, along the lines of the meh in your sig, a case of growing meh. It's easier and easier not to bother doing things. It's easier and easier not even bothering to login.
Like the other day, I was grumbling about something. Somebody suggested I chill. So I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That discussion went way over my head, so I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That just wears on me.
I look back at those release notes I posted up there and it kind of reflects a meh of its own. The Breach and Storming come up often as examples in some of my "rants" about a lack of balance in rewards of content. I'd totally forgotten they added Delta Marks to them...but to me, that just shows the complete disconnect that appears from time to time with Cryptic.
Cause it's...Oh cool, now not only are Breach and Storming under-rewarding for what they already were; but now they're also under-rewarding for Delta Marks too! Wheeeeeeee! /facepalm
So while it's not a case that they're only just nerfing things left, right, and center - there are, imho, nifty things they are doing - some of the things they are doing just leave me wondering what their actual involvement in the game is...if at all.
Hell, for some of the stuff that came with Delta Rising I wondered if they even were involved in the development of it or if they just rubber stamped things that some third party did some contractual work for them. And DR wasn't the first time that's come up...where they talk about things doing one thing and it's nowhere near what it actually does. How can somebody be the developer of the game and have that happen unless it's a case of just giving a cursory glance at stuff that's been outsourced and rubber stamping it?
The getting into some of the "balancing" stuff with content...meh. Yeah, meh.
Lol, as long as you keep moving fast...don't slow down, don't look at it...imho, it's just a little meh here or there. If you stop for a moment, all that meh can catch up to you and turn into a massive pile of WTF.
It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic is out to get us. It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic are incompetent. But it's definitely difficult for me not to feel that there's not a disconnect there of some sort.
It's like deciding that Bug Hunt was both too easy and under-rewarding. I saw the thread about Delta Marks and I was kind of floored. I hate it because it gets into that "I've got a sandwich" territory...but even with barely playing, it's been a case of it raining Delta Marks all over the place. I've got over 5k of them there - that's not counting those that were used for stuff along the way: 500 for the Advanced Beam, 500 for the Gel Pack, 500 for the Neutronic Torp, nor 750 for the Core. That's not counting how many ever I fed there at the start into hourly boxes trying to get APCs. I'm only 23 Intel, 15 Pilot, 0 Commando with 4 sitting there...I can easily picture folks with well over 10k Delta Marks...cause it's just raining them left, right, and center. I even saw the reply about BH and Delta Marks in this thread, and I just...meh...
I haven't personally felt an issue of any difficulty in getting anything. No, I'm not a I need it now person...so that means I don't have a problem with something perhaps taking a week or longer to get. But I do have an issue with is that there's just not much to do - because so much of the stuff offers crappy rewards for the investment by comparison, that folks just aren't bothering with it. So there's nobody else joining up those queues to play stuff just to play it...is the feeling that I get. Same has happened over in PvP.
I just don't "feel" a balanced endgame exists on any level. Between the lack of balance for rewards in content based on time/difficulty/effort mixed in with all the bugs...
...yeah, if one stops to catch their breath, imho, it's easy for them to get overwhelmed.
Course, it's going to affect different folks differently - everybody's got their own thresholds.
And I've said it before to others, so maybe it is just a case of taking my own advice...if there isn't enough of a reason to log in, then just don't log in. Given that the 3-4 folks I used to see multiple times a day are all gone...well, yeah...meh.
Maybe its just me... Head guy leaves, game slowly improves, Head guy comes back, game spirals downward. Now correlation doesn't mean causation but.....
So true - Maybe they will bring D Stahl back, doubt he would ever think about taking away spec points.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
Really? Cause they're achieving the latter pretty succesfully for me.
-edit- I know this sounds sarcastic, but it's because I'm annoyed. I *want* to like this game, but recent changes and DR's meta in general are making it very difficult. Please understand this.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
From what I've seen, this is one of the few threads where pretty much all of the users are on the same page. It's the dev team who seem to have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "fun".
Really the only 'update' we are hoping for is "oh TRIBBLE we wrote decreased when we meant to say increased".
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Right now a single CCA run rock rewards 960 + 800 (marks) or 1760. I can run ten in an hour easily with my alt army if not more yielding me 17,600 an hour. With this proposed change that is reduced down to 15,600 if I don't get any optional but no failures (unlikely not to get optional on most). or about a 9% earning reduction. That is still far higher than any other active content especially considering the additional earnings from daily bonus boxes and waiting for the dil weekend to turn in the marks. The reduction does not go far enough actually unless I begin to fail it in a PuG regularly.
I do disagree with the idea that if more than three of my randomly selected teammates are baddies I fail leading to frustration as the balancing method for the rewards. Hopefully that does not happen very often.
A better idea might be to make the event take longer somehow other than a mandatory timer. Perhaps let the tholians provide a touch of healing for the CE, let the CE be immune until the tholians are destroyed perhaps, I dunno be creative.
And the Cure change, the only thing I can figure is that the only ones playing it regularly are premade groups. Leads to a self fulfilling prophecy type deal especially with no elite version for those who desire a challenge to play.
But I do have an issue with is that there's just not much to do - because so much of the stuff offers crappy rewards for the investment by comparison, that folks just aren't bothering with it.
Agreed. I want crafting materials and spec points. I cannot stand the patrols and the crafting material options for someone who prefers to PuG are extremely limited depending upon what I'm after. I typically have a single option that is viable at best.
Right now a single CCA run rock rewards 960 + 800 (marks) or 1760. I can run ten in an hour easily with my alt army if not more yielding me 17,600 an hour.
Where are you getting those figures from? CCA doesn't reward anywhere near that amount of marks.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Comments
it would be the true nature of the beast, weeks to follow when the ones in there see the changes to the timers. it should not be about DPS race, i fought claw and nail to get up there, and i can see it is not going to bring more happy tree friends
Seriously?
I really hope you guys have a cool follow-up to this like:
'OH and we are removing the Queue cooldown timers'
if not, I'm gonna have to go with the doom crowd on this one.
Content-wise, I really do appreciate what DR has brought, namely letting us explore the Delta Quadrant and encounter some of the former crew of Voyager, with their in-game selves being voiced by the actors who portrayed the characters we saw on the show. Playing through the Delta
Quadrant content has gotten me to go back and rewatch several Voyager episodes that deal directly with the content here, to help me get a clearer picture of things. That, I appreciate.
Without feedback from the devs on why all these changes are going on, I made the mistake of perhaps sounding a bit judgmental. For that, I apologize. Can you guys please help us understand why these changes are taking place? I'm sure it would help folks here to see your perspective. I also am wondering about how you guys arrive at some of these decisions regarding reward changes.
All I ask is that the queue events don't become unplayable / impossible to complete the objectives.
Questions I still have.
1) What is considered an acceptable completion rate?
2) Does the completion rate % separate between pick up groups formed via the queues, premade groups, or a strait combination of both?
3) Can we have even a rough ETA on elite versions of Infected, Cure, and Crystalline Catastrophe.
4) Is advanced difficulty intended to be completed by pick up groups via the queues, or are we expected to preform groups for them.
5) When the XP changes went live it was implied the amount reward by queues would be increased. Currently a single Crystalline Catastrophe run rewards roughly 1/80th of a specialization point. Can we expect that to change? When? By how much?
A suggestion for future; big sweeping game changes should be viewed like constructive criticism. First deploy the buffs, then the nerfs, ending with more buffs. Otherwise you just make people angry with you. Or do it all at once.
Also be accountable. If you are going to post a thread asking for feedback and state you will answer questions inside it you might want to reply to something before page 20. Ignore the posts with vitriol and engage with those who are being constructive and you just might see a change of tone from the community.
You think this would help a possibly dying game?
(SnR,Packetloss,Loadout-Bug,DX-Errors,shrinking Playerbase,many reported heavy Bugs,et cetera pe pe)
Who are the "Mastermind" of this Idea?
Constructive Feedback you wish from us?
A Poll?
Empty Queues are a reported Bug?
I think you dont respect your own loyal Playerbase-/-Feedback and think we are stupid as hell.
Play your own Game WITHOUT Godmode and you will see what is going wrong here.
or...
you see a incoming Game Over.
Star Trek Online is going down. No one with a brain need this explained. No need for another braindead-poll. play your own game without cheating and then we can discuss.
At this time my wallet are close for Guys who think i'm dumb as hell.
You give me a big F U instead of a true response
My honest words currently.
Excellent questions, hopefully they will be answered.
Derrick - Fed Eng
I'm hopeful that any further posts on this will be open about why this is happening.
October 23rd, 2014
The Skill Points and Expertise rewarded for defeating NPCs below the player's current level have been updated.
---They now correctly scale starting at one level below the player.
---Defeating NPCs that are 5 levels below you now properly award far less skill points and expertise to prevent exploitative gameplay.
The Skill Point bonus for teaming has been corrected.
---The team bonus with the launch of Delta Rising was incorrect and it has now been reduced.
All Patrols and Deep Space Encounters in the Tau Dewa Sector now spawn NPCs at the correct level.
The rewards for many of the PVE Space queues have been updated.
---Normal Mode:
35 Marks for completion.
10 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Advanced Mode:
50 Marks for completion.
25 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Elite Mode:
80 Marks for completion.
20 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---These changes affect the following queues:
Atmosphere Assault
Borg Disconnected
Infected: The Conduit
Khitomer Vortex
Storming the Spire
The Breach
The Cure Found
The Vault: Ensnared
Undine Assault
Viscous Cycle
The rewards for many of the PVE Ground queues have been updated.
---Normal Mode:
45 Marks for completion.
10 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Advanced Mode:
65 Marks for completion.
25 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---Elite Mode:
95 Marks for completion.
20 Marks for completing the Optional objective.
---These changes affect the following queues:
Infected: Manus
Into the Hive
Khitomer in Stasis
The Cure Applied
Undine Infiltration
Updated several PVE queues and their rewards.
---No Win Scenario:
NPCs now spawn at the correct difficulty level.
Advanced and Elite modes now award the correct crafting pack for beating wave 8 or higher.
---Crystalline Catastrophe:
The HP of the Crystalline Entity has been significantly reduced in Advanced mode.
The regeneration rate of the Crystalline Entity has been reduced and no longer scales during the later stages of the battle.
---"Atmosphere Assault" Advanced mode now correctly places players into the Advanced difficulty map when queued.
---"Vault Shuttle Event" now grants all the listed rewards instead of forcing only one to be chosen.
---"Khitomer Vortex" now correctly awards players 10 Marks for failing.
---"Nukara Prime: Self-Destructive Tendencies" Advanced mode now correctly rewards 10 Marks for failing.
Resolved an issue that resulted in the XP earn rate for skill points to be incorrect.
---Prior to Delta Risings launch, the XP earn rate for defeating an Elite NPC was 1.75 times that earned from defeating a Normal NPC.
---With the launch of Delta Rising, that value was incorrectly changed to cause the player to earn 5.0 times the amount of XP earned from defeating an Elite NPC compared to defeating a Normal NPC.
---This update will set the skill point earn rate for defeating Elite NPCs to 2.0 times that earned from defeating a Normal NPC.
Resolved an issue that resulted in the XP earn rate for skill points to be incorrect.
---This update will set the skill point earn rate to 2.0x normal.
Prior to Delta Rising the earn rate was 1.75x normal.
Reduced the Skill Point requirement for each Starship Mastery level by 33%.
---No earned Ship Mastery Skill Points will be removed from players ships.
---Players who are in the process of leveling up a Starship Mastery level will have the Mastery level of the ship increase to match the 33% decrease in points required.
The difficulty of space NPCS has been updated for the 50-60 level range.
---In Normal mode, all space NPCs have had their Hull and Shields slightly reduced.
---In Advanced mode, all space NPCs have had their Hull and Shields slightly reduced.
Shields are reduced more than Hull.
---In Elite mode, all space NPCs have had their Hull increased and Shields reduced slightly.
---These changes apply to all space NPCs in:
All level 50-60 content episodes.
All level 50-60 patrols missions.
All level 50-60 PVE queues.
November 6th, 2014
Increased Dilithium rewards for all PvE queues.
---Normal queues will reward 360 Dilithium upon successful completion.
---Advanced queues reward 720 Dilithium upon successful completion.
---Elite queues reward 1440 Dilithium upon successful completion.
Updated the reward rates of R&D Materials in the Advance version of queues to guarantee that one Very Rare R&D Material is received inside each pack.
Increased Dilithium rewards by 50% in Adventure Zones and Battle Zones.
---For example, if the Dilithium reward for an Adventure Zone mission was 10, it will now be 15.
Space NPC ships level 50-60 have had their Hit Points reduced.
---This change affects Space NPC ships in Normal and Advanced modes.
---Hit Points have not been altered for Space NPCs in Elite mode.
Resolved an issue where level 60 NPCs were not dropping the appropritate amount of items when defeated.
---Level 60 NPCs should now drop items other than devices and commodities with slightly more frequency than before, when defeated.
November 13th, 2014
Reduced the Skill Point requirement to go from level 0-5 in Starship Mastery by roughly 50%.
---No earned Ship Mastery Skill Points will be removed from player's ships.
---Players who are in the process of leveling up a Starship Mastery level will have the Mastery level of the ship increase to match the roughly 50% decrease in points required.
November 20th, 2014
Updated the Battle of Korfez PvE Queue.
---Added a failure reward for completing the gate check but then failing at any other part of the queue.
---Resolved an issue where a required ship to defeat became stuck in an asteroid and could not be destroyed.
Updated rewards for Fleet Actions queues to the following:
---720 Dilithium for completion
---Normal Crafting Pack
---20 Fleet Marks
---Skill Points and Expertise Points have been slightly increased in scale.
---This applies to the following queues:
Gorn Minefield
Starbase 24
Klingon Scout Force
Breaking the Planet
The Big Dig
Delta Quadrant Patrol Systems:
---Teammates can now play together on the same Delta Quadrant patrol maps.
Previously, players could only team together if they had the Delta Quadrant mission associated with the patrol system.
Skill Points earned via completing missions and defeating NPCs have been updated.
---The Skill Points earned from playing episodes with captains at levels 50 to 60 have been increased.
Previously, if a player completed a mission at level 49 and was rewarded 3,000 Skill Points, that same mission completed at level 51 would reward much lower than 3,000 Skill Points.
This update makes it so the player, in this scenario stated above, would earn at least 3,000 Skill Points at level 51 instead of the much lower number.
---The amount of Skill Points earned via defeating enemy NPCs will now scale upwards with a player's level.
---A captain's level will not be altered upon logging in.
For example, if a captain is level 53 that captain will still be level 53 upon logging in to Holodeck.
Updated Crystalline Catastrophe:
---Large Crystalline Fragments - Hit Points reduced by 20% on Basic and 50% on Advanced.
---Small Crystalline Fragments - Hit Points reduced by 40% on Advanced.
---Re-Crystalize Buff - Damage Bonus per stack reduced from 2% to 1% for all difficulties.
Damage Bonus now caps at 100 stacks.
---Shatter, Fragment Explosions - Deals approximately 15% less damage.
---Resolved an issue where Small Fragments were causing Physical Damage instead of Kinetic Damage.
Changed the scaling of all carrier fighters' damage, shields, and hit points so they scale relative to the player and not the NPCs.
---Previously, the fighters were scaling at too high of a rate of damage, shields, and hit points.
November 25th, 2014
Daily Mark boxes no longer have the bonus applied to them during Bonus marks Weekend events.
December 4th, 2014
Borg Red Alerts now set Captains and enemies to level 50.
Dyson Sphere Battle Zone: Re-balanced how player's scores are calculated for open missions.
---Previously, missions were being too generous with points for tasks that were not critical to missions and too penalizing on tasks that were critical for missions.
Delta Marks are now offered as a reward choice for the PvE queues Storming the Spire and The Breach.
Delta Quadrant Patrols:
---Doubled the amount of rewarded Skill Points for all Delta Quadrant patrol missions.
---All Delta Quadrant missions reward 10 Delta Marks instead of 5.
---Updated the Parein Patrol reward to include loot since it is a disable all enemies instead of defeat all enemies mission.
Research and Development:
---Reduced the uncommon material costs of uncommon components slightly.
Uncommon components that previously required 5 uncommon materials now require 3.
Uncommon components that previously required 8 uncommon materials now require 7.
---Reduced the rare material costs of rare components moderately.
Rare components that previously required 5 rare materials now require 3.
Rare components that previously required 8 rare materials now require 5.
---Reduced the very rare material costs of very rare components significantly.
Very rare components that previously required 5 rare materials now require 1.
Very rare components that previously required 8 rare materials now require 2.
---Dilithium costs have been left unchanged.
December 11th, 2014
Increased the damage of all Mark 13 and 14 space weapons.
Resolved an issue in the Dyson Sphere Battlezone where players who were teamed were not getting enough credit to earn rewards.
December 12th, 2014
Interacting with generators in the Dyson Sphere Ground Battlezone now applies credit towards the associated open missions.
The PvE queue "Defend Rh'lhho Station" now rewards 10 Marks when failing it in Advanced and Elite modes.
The negative changes even if it's a fix should not be done.
Right now you should be moving in a postive PR direction.
Making people sad and upset will only fire up the forums and keep people or drive them away.
Take the advice please this will not go over well with the community.
Killing NPCs should be challenging rather than tedious. I understand the need to buff NPC hull/shield mods to compensate for damage increase, but the buff is too extreme on advanced/elite and normal difficulty NPCs are far too weak. One key way to make NPCs more difficult to fight would be to increase their defense rating and add +All Damage Resistance Rating. Another way to improve difficulty would be to add abilities to NPCs while providing them with the code to use them appropriately.
I know for a fact it is possible for NPCs to use abilities intelligently because I've seen how magnificently implemented the Vaadwaur Ground NPCs are in the Delta Rising content. Fighting Vaadwaur Ground NPCs is fairly challenging at higher difficulties and they are fun to fight. In fact, I'm sure Kobali Prime would be a very popular map if the rewards weren't so limiting (7 marks and 90 dilithium for a 15 minute mission isn't worth it.)
Unfortunately this feedback is negative in tone, but I do hope it is helpful.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
glad you took the time to grab this intel.
Derrick - Fed Eng
I'd like to know that answer too, but I'm afraid it's not something they are telling us.
Cryptic is to blame for all the dissent you see here. Players are not just complaining for the sake of complaining: there's fair reasoning behind all the negativity. A change of tone from the community, for the better, needs to happen as a consequence of reasonable actions coming from Cryptic. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening unless Cryptic completely changes the direction they're going.
STO Screenshot Archive
There's your 'feedback'.
Since you do not listen to us anyway (or even bother to listen to the people who do your job on the test servers, using thier own time and effort to find bugs that you ignore and then go on to accuse the player base for 'exploiting').
That is all you deserve now - any goodwill towards you (from me at least) has now expired.
It'll take a lot more than this (one change, or a long list of changes) to make me reconsider playing this game - it's fun at the core gameplay XD I don't hate grind for existing, and feel no need to have the best-of-best stuff, or that I need something right now
And I remember working the exploration clusters for Marks of Valor + such, plus still fly the Kar'Fi I bought with Emblems, so I've been here for awhile as my sig would imply. That should say something lol
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The Tribble patch notes in this cycle not a kind anniversary gift for STO at all. Once again, you should reconsider the dwindling populations in the queues when making balance changes.
Did it never occur to you that by increasing the difficulty of queues, you have discouraged less-skilled players from participating? And then because there are fewer less-skilled players in the queues, those that remained would be more skilled and artificially inflate the win percentages?
This is the slippery slope upward that you are turning STO into. This is how you eliminate the majority of a population from STO. This is not a healthy decision for the long-term success of the game; as an F2P game, STO should cater to the long tail of unskilled players- not the few who can beat Adv/Eli queues.
This is how you are moving the game in the wrong direction. Do not push this patch to Holodeck!
Tactical Team sucked, once upon a time. I got it buffed. Don't think for a minute that Cryptic ignores forum feedback.
So the only explanation to all of this is:
"some events players were completing too fast"
"some events were rewarding too many marks"
Seriously? Why is it that so long after the introduction of the reputation system (2+ years) you decide these are "bugs" that need fixing while other actual game breaking bugs go left unfixed?
It's like you're kicking us in the crotch and asking us afterwards to tell you if it was a good idea to do so and to describe the pain we feel. We can complain about it. But it doesn't change the fact you still kicked us and somewhere down the road you'll just kick us again.
Even long after DR was released, I have pumped my fair share of money and time into this game. I've read so many posts that I thought were from people who were just being dramatic or just wanted to complain for the sake of complaining. That being said, I've been starting to agree with the complaints. Cryptic decided to make many decisions that have ultimately alienated many players. We gave our feedback as to why we were not happy. It seems that Cryptic saw what was pushing people away, and thought, let's do more of that. Let's do exactly what is pissing people off the most, but slowly make it be on a grander scale. Yeah, that'll show them that we care about their feedback and want them to enjoy their experience, and you know, keep playing and giving us money. Well Cryptic, you've lost all of the money in my wallet that might have gone to you. I used to spend quite a bit. No more though. I'll still play, though not as often as I used to play (why should I, so they can keep making it harder and rewarding less?). But I vow not to reward middle fingers to the player base such as this.
For me, it's been a gradual wear and tear sort of thing. Hasn't been the omgherd, that's it, I'm out of here thing...it's just, along the lines of the meh in your sig, a case of growing meh. It's easier and easier not to bother doing things. It's easier and easier not even bothering to login.
Like the other day, I was grumbling about something. Somebody suggested I chill. So I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That discussion went way over my head, so I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That just wears on me.
I look back at those release notes I posted up there and it kind of reflects a meh of its own. The Breach and Storming come up often as examples in some of my "rants" about a lack of balance in rewards of content. I'd totally forgotten they added Delta Marks to them...but to me, that just shows the complete disconnect that appears from time to time with Cryptic.
Cause it's...Oh cool, now not only are Breach and Storming under-rewarding for what they already were; but now they're also under-rewarding for Delta Marks too! Wheeeeeeee! /facepalm
So while it's not a case that they're only just nerfing things left, right, and center - there are, imho, nifty things they are doing - some of the things they are doing just leave me wondering what their actual involvement in the game is...if at all.
Hell, for some of the stuff that came with Delta Rising I wondered if they even were involved in the development of it or if they just rubber stamped things that some third party did some contractual work for them. And DR wasn't the first time that's come up...where they talk about things doing one thing and it's nowhere near what it actually does. How can somebody be the developer of the game and have that happen unless it's a case of just giving a cursory glance at stuff that's been outsourced and rubber stamping it?
The getting into some of the "balancing" stuff with content...meh. Yeah, meh.
Lol, as long as you keep moving fast...don't slow down, don't look at it...imho, it's just a little meh here or there. If you stop for a moment, all that meh can catch up to you and turn into a massive pile of WTF.
It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic is out to get us. It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic are incompetent. But it's definitely difficult for me not to feel that there's not a disconnect there of some sort.
It's like deciding that Bug Hunt was both too easy and under-rewarding. I saw the thread about Delta Marks and I was kind of floored. I hate it because it gets into that "I've got a sandwich" territory...but even with barely playing, it's been a case of it raining Delta Marks all over the place. I've got over 5k of them there - that's not counting those that were used for stuff along the way: 500 for the Advanced Beam, 500 for the Gel Pack, 500 for the Neutronic Torp, nor 750 for the Core. That's not counting how many ever I fed there at the start into hourly boxes trying to get APCs. I'm only 23 Intel, 15 Pilot, 0 Commando with 4 sitting there...I can easily picture folks with well over 10k Delta Marks...cause it's just raining them left, right, and center. I even saw the reply about BH and Delta Marks in this thread, and I just...meh...
I haven't personally felt an issue of any difficulty in getting anything. No, I'm not a I need it now person...so that means I don't have a problem with something perhaps taking a week or longer to get. But I do have an issue with is that there's just not much to do - because so much of the stuff offers crappy rewards for the investment by comparison, that folks just aren't bothering with it. So there's nobody else joining up those queues to play stuff just to play it...is the feeling that I get. Same has happened over in PvP.
I just don't "feel" a balanced endgame exists on any level. Between the lack of balance for rewards in content based on time/difficulty/effort mixed in with all the bugs...
...yeah, if one stops to catch their breath, imho, it's easy for them to get overwhelmed.
Course, it's going to affect different folks differently - everybody's got their own thresholds.
And I've said it before to others, so maybe it is just a case of taking my own advice...if there isn't enough of a reason to log in, then just don't log in. Given that the 3-4 folks I used to see multiple times a day are all gone...well, yeah...meh.
So true - Maybe they will bring D Stahl back, doubt he would ever think about taking away spec points.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Really? Cause they're achieving the latter pretty succesfully for me.
-edit- I know this sounds sarcastic, but it's because I'm annoyed. I *want* to like this game, but recent changes and DR's meta in general are making it very difficult. Please understand this.
From what I've seen, this is one of the few threads where pretty much all of the users are on the same page. It's the dev team who seem to have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "fun".
Really the only 'update' we are hoping for is "oh TRIBBLE we wrote decreased when we meant to say increased".
Right now a single CCA run rock rewards 960 + 800 (marks) or 1760. I can run ten in an hour easily with my alt army if not more yielding me 17,600 an hour. With this proposed change that is reduced down to 15,600 if I don't get any optional but no failures (unlikely not to get optional on most). or about a 9% earning reduction. That is still far higher than any other active content especially considering the additional earnings from daily bonus boxes and waiting for the dil weekend to turn in the marks. The reduction does not go far enough actually unless I begin to fail it in a PuG regularly.
I do disagree with the idea that if more than three of my randomly selected teammates are baddies I fail leading to frustration as the balancing method for the rewards. Hopefully that does not happen very often.
A better idea might be to make the event take longer somehow other than a mandatory timer. Perhaps let the tholians provide a touch of healing for the CE, let the CE be immune until the tholians are destroyed perhaps, I dunno be creative.
And the Cure change, the only thing I can figure is that the only ones playing it regularly are premade groups. Leads to a self fulfilling prophecy type deal especially with no elite version for those who desire a challenge to play.
Agreed. I want crafting materials and spec points. I cannot stand the patrols and the crafting material options for someone who prefers to PuG are extremely limited depending upon what I'm after. I typically have a single option that is viable at best.
Where are you getting those figures from? CCA doesn't reward anywhere near that amount of marks.
I think he means the dil he'd get from converting the marks it rewards.