I agree with the need to be able to earn more of those ancient power cells. Right now, to my knowledge, the only ways to get them beyond the one-time mission reward is getting lucky with the Delta rep project equipment drop package or by running Bug Hunt on either Advanced or Elite.
Yet another part of the topic relating to difficulty.
Where are the elite versions? When you lack the elite version for a queue that means those players who would rather play at elite are instead forced to play at advanced.
Pretty sure there is a big group of players out there that would love a CCElite, or an ISElite. Just sayin.
Yea not in favor of the change to the queues at all. It's getting a little annoying how cryptic seems to want to determine what content you should be playing. Spending to much time in non DR queues? Nerf the rewards to that, raise them on DR queues and lets entice the herd that way. It's pretty transparent and it's also VERY annoying. Anybody else feel like this is some horrible social experiment to see how much the drones(us) will take before we quit? lol. Also and this is the part where I am confused but how is it in the best interests of STO (and hopefully what is a long term plan to still have servers running) to continually TRIBBLE off your customers?
Instead of capitalizing on what looked to me to be a huge success from the Legacy of Romulus expansion you doubled down on everything players hate. I may be a lone in this opinion but I really felt like you left LoR half finished, so much more could have been done to add to that expansion. I loved the story, loved the content and I was actually having fun, so naturally things had to go in a different direction. Got it.
All I know is that I have four more BHAs to do to get DR rep done on my primary toon, then I guess I will be writing off the majority of the end-game content for the rest of them... just do what is fun and ignore the rest. :rolleyes:
Another round of PvE queue updates have been made and are making their way to Tribble for extra testing. This particular batch of updates has focused on increasing difficulty for queues that are being completed at a higher rate than expected and decreasing rewards for queues that have been over-rewarding as compared to the reward levels we have established across all PvE queues. We expect that these will be the only queues changed in such ways during this first pass of updates. As mentioned previously, this is an ongoing effort to improve STO and this update (and those that came before) are not the entirety of what will be done.
...
The Cure Applied
The I.K.S. Kang has had its hull, shields and damage bonuses for Advanced difficulty reduced by half. The mark rewards for successfully completing the optional objective in Normal difficulty have been reduced from 25 marks to 15 marks. The optional objective in Normal difficulty has been updated for completing the queue in 15 minutes to completing the queue in 4 minutes or less. The objective in Advanced difficulty requiring that players complete the queue in 15 minutes or less has been updated to requires players to complete the queue in 9 minutes or less.
I'm not sure what your metrics are telling you. I can tell you that Cure Space Advanced is currently one of the most often failed STFs in PUGs, and before Delta Rising, Cure Space Elite was one of the most often failed STFs in PUGs. Maybe, you need better metrics, because what you are saying does not accord with my experience. Possibly, Cure Space Advanced has a high completion rate in private matches; that I wouldn't know.
EDIT1: Can we get more information on what you are measuring and how the data was collected? Honestly, I'm looking at some of the changes and your reasons for them and left scratching my head.
EDIT2: You also seem to have a typo. "The Cure Applied" is the name of Cure Ground. The name of Cure Space is "The Cure Found".
im suprised by the big boost for Bug Hunt as that is very doable and my main source for Ancient Power Cells. I myself also mostly run Crystalline Catastrophe Advanced for sweet Radiogenic Particles. I don't like the change to CCA for sure though, mostly with the much shorter time limit. Though I do agree that that Atmosphere Assault needs the boost as shuttle based ones are nowhere near as good as starship ones.
Payout nerfs are bad. Payout buffs are good. That's pretty much the entirety of my feedback.
Expertise/Skill Point gain from queued events is noticably different than experience gained from things such as Argala. Cryptic knows this already.
So people do queued events for the marks and r&d rewards, not experience.
So if you nerf the mark payouts... that just gives people less incentive to do the queued events. Which should be the opposite you are trying to accomplish at this point in the game's development.
So the classic queues are going to be harder and less rewarding. The new ones get a boost.
As a standard PUGer, it's much harder to run queues than it used to be. The Delta Quadrant has little to no dilithium in space where my bread and butter is, and the DR advanced and elite space queues are generally unwinnable for the average Joe. Which is where you need to go to get the gear to beat the Advanced and Elite space queues...and then there's Bug Hunt.
I can understand giving the new Queues a boost in rewards, that's fine, but there's no reason to knee cap the old ones. And what's with the dilithium cut back. We need opportunities to earn the crystals now more than ever. There were complaints ages ago that we had nothing to spend our dilithium on. Now there's an insurmountable amount to spend it on to remain relevant, and you're slashing sources (that are now inadequate to start) to make it even harder to advance.
Just...no.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
First, I would like to thank you for starting this thread for us to leave comments, and suggestions. I will try to be as respectful as possible with my own opinions, and/or suggestions.
I understand that some of the developers are truly wanting to try to find a way to make the game as enjoyable as it was before DR, as well as not having every queue become a walkthrough just like the old elite missions were. However, the process that was used has obviously not worked. Otherwise you wouldnt be making these changes, and others to try to fix what has happened.
Though I was here before DR, I dont feel entitled to things as some might assume. Others who have similar opinions to me may not feel entitled either. I am disabled, and have no source of income. For that reason, I have no problem at all grinding for what I want from the C-Store, and for anything in the game that some might buy Zen to convert into Dil to buy. The only time I have a problem with grinding is when it becomes the main focus in the game, and the fun aspect of it suffers. (Note: When I say that an overabundance of grind is not fun, I mean for myself, and ones like me. I know that some people like playing game just for the grind.)
With that in mind, DR could have been done differently, and still given players the same experience for the most part they had before, and more. But, we cannot forget about the new players that tried STO when DR came out. These are new players that dont already have a lot of the grind done that they have accumulated over the months, and years before the expansion.
They went from level 1-50 at a decent pace, and then were hit with not just a very high level grind from level 50-60, but all the other grinds.
Rep Systems
1-Omega
2-Nukara
3-New Romulus
4-Dyson
5-Species 8472
6-Delta
Crafting (Which starts at level 15, but would still be going on at this point, unless the player only focused on it, and not leveled the character.
7-Beams
8-Cannons
9-Shields
10-Science
11-Ground Weapons
12-Engineering
13-Projectile
Then the upgrades to weapons and gear, which include EC, and Dil grinds. As well as the dill and EC grinds for rep systems as well.
All of this with very few missions to play.
I know that before DR, there were a few missions added throughout the year, and we were mostly doing endgame content like STFs and PVEs. However, one of the biggest draws for them by me and a lot of people I know was that they gave rewards for them that made them feel like you were accomplishing something. They made you feel good about doing them.
Did the queues need an overhaul, yes they did. However, they got overhauled into this big mess of a constant grind. That means that instead of smarter AI, we got DPS sponges, and reduction in rewards. Now it feels like we are being rewarded less for doing more work than before. Almost like we are slapped in the face for playing the game at level 50-60. (Note: I am not saying that was the intent, but it is the feeling of myself, and some have told me they feel the same).
Therefore, there are some suggestions I do have that may help.
1-Before DR, we had Normal STFs open at level 45. Since normal is now easier than they used to be, all queued missions should be opened up at level 45 that give marks for the rep systems that are not mission locked at level 50. Also, the changes that are listed to come out soon, they should not be implemented at all.
2-The rep systems that are not locked behind a level 50 mission should be allowed to be started at level 45. None of the items can be purchased, but the rep systems can be leveled. This will help with the grind that starts at level 50 for BNPs and other special currencies for any of them.
3-The advanced queues should be slightly harder than the old elite should have been. This would mean that if more enemies were added, then they are added. Timers left like they were, and possible the enemies are a LITTLE tankier. Since making the AI smarter is not an option, then not over doing the hp pools of all enemies is the only way at this time to counter it.
Elite should be like an epic battle. It should be something that when you are finished, you feel like you did more than just out DPS the NPC. It is something that should involve more tactics than the simple ones needed at advanced.
I have tried a few other MMOs over the past year and a half. One of the things that I loved about some of them was not that there were different levels of the same mission you could do. That is no different than replaying the same mission at a higher level, and it scaling to you. Instead, there were different missions all together. And to get into one, you have to be at a certain level, or it will allow up to a certain amount of players in, and scale to the amount of players.
Also, these newer missions were more epic than before, and a lot of them required healers, tanks, and DPSers. Everyone had a role. There were some that didnt use the trinity, and they were still good, but they did scale to the amount of players, and needed a tactic that was different in some way than all the other missions. However, with STO, the three difficulty missions are almost the same things. Some enemies might be different than ones that were there before, or they had higher hp pools, but they are the same.
Why not make the queues that are available at levels 50-60 only go up to advanced, and give certain rewards. Then, make new missions all together that are tied to a side quest, or not even part of a main mission, or quest at all. These can be locked out to players at 60, and they can be a whole new animal. They will reward much higher than all the other queues, and they will also need to be done differently, and with healers. The enemy throws out debuffs, and other attacks that make DPSers lose their punch, tanks can lose defense, and Science need to do crowd control, and heal.
There is a large variety of what can be done, and it will open up the queues we have now to being left alone, except for maybe a little Nerfing to the hp pools in advance. But these new, epic queues should reward epic rewards at levels you cant get anywhere else. Then, all that will need to be tweaked are just those.
Finally, let us convert marks into rep system currency. Make it so that you cant take 5 Omega marks and turn them into a BNP, and turn it into 1,000 dil. Instead, make it equal to 1,000 Dil worth of marks for the same amount BNP that equal 1,000 marks. Then there will not be any easy Dil made, and those that have trouble for whatever reason dont need to run the advanced.
I know that this is long, but I hope it may offer some helpful suggestions that can be used.
Tim.
Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
This update is a massive blow to my enthusiasm for the game. I've been pretty upset about the reward nerfs, (skill points, Dyson dil, etc...), since after Delta Rising's launch.
I've been sticking around in the hopes that the rewards for other content will be increased to reflect the values of the new content. This is the exact opposite of what I had been expecting/hoping to happen.
"You will take part in the DR Expansion. You WILL play where and what we tell you, or you will be penalized."
Thanks.
Cryptic, if, like everyone seems to suggest, you want players to play the new content, why don't you normalize the rewards of all content, new and old (by BUFFING old content), and just have a "flavor of the month" bonus: +20% everything on the content you want us to be playing until something new comes out.
I do not think that this is the best way to stimulate players into playing the already empty STF queues. The mark reduction truly isnt that drastic TBH.
Not on the surface, no. But by also making the optionals harder, there's a stacked effect that IS actually pretty big.
i dont understand what your targed with all that is, the queue are already almost dead.
And guess why people play CCA all the time, not because its that much fun, simple because its the last one they can win.
People here will try a queue once, if the fail it maybe try a second time, if fail again simply stop to play it, and move on to something else.
By that way the game is losing more and more contant to play.
In the past even when i not hab much time hopped in for some mintues did a queue.
Now that almost no longer possible. I either have to wait ages to get together enough people from the flleet, or wait mintues just to have a instand fail with a pug.
The top 3 fondery thing will not change that problem at all, most fonder missions are simply to long, ow can take 2h just to play one fondery?
Sure u know many of your player have family job and children, than u need something u can play in short time, if not u will move on to an other game.
If the is the targed behind that changes, make sto more timeconsuming and dive people away from the game, yes than u do perfect.
This DR trend is depressing! It's almost as if you(Cryptic)don't want us to play!
All the years work put into content just tossed into the toilet. With nothing but ultra easy Bug Hunt, or ultra boring Argala to replace it!
Show some guts and tell those PwE fools that variety is a Priority.
Take that 70% reward bonus for bug hunt and put it on a calendar. Breach one day, Mine Trap another. Dump the stupid, asinine, repulsive, mood killer fail optional and get back to WORK on making us customers fun things to do.
This DR trend is depressing! It's almost as if you(Cryptic)don't want us to play!
All the years work put into content just tossed into the toilet. With nothing but ultra easy Bug Hunt, or ultra boring Argala to replace it!
Show some guts and tell those PwE fools that variety is a Priority.
Take that 70% reward bonus for bug hunt and put it on a calendar. Breach one day, Mine Trap another. Dump the stupid, asinine, repulsive, mood killer fail optional and get back to WORK on making us customers fun things to do.
You have a job, Do Your Work!
Don't forget that also the bug hunt difficulty was increased in one of the last patches.
It looks like they love these changes from the positive reactions. Decrease the rewards a little farther... That should do the job, and keep them playing STO longer.
The players love it. Just look at most of the posts here. What more proof do we need?
DR is indeed the best expansion. My faith in Cryptic is renewed. They're professionals. I can't argue with them...
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
You guys @cryptic lol^^ its quite obvious that you are NOT going for similar rewards everywhere but that the main factor is how often a mission is played. I like the bughunt/ntte changes a lot obviously and the rest nerf is not so bad and I really like the cca changes so for me its all good except removing nowin thats really bad. Or at least you should make other queues give more fleet marks to compensate for the missing nws.
i hope some1 either looses there jobs soon or gets a brain transplant because this company is either the owners or project manager has the I.Q of a three year old or it is run by adolescents :mad:
And by the looks of it, Kang is going to be even MORE fragile? A single Bird of Prey already one-hit-kills Kang. And now you want it to die simply by having a Borg looking in their general direction?
So, do you mind telling me how DEcreasing rewards is going to ENcourage me to play? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
This is a big question. VERY counterintuitive here.
And it's a shame that this messed-up change is going to taint the good change (i.e. the Foundry) by association.
But I've made up my mind about something when DR dropped. It's pretty much summed up by (ironic!) Maje Culluh. "I will do WHAT I want, WHERE I want!" I will not be steered into whatever areas the devs want me to be in. If I DO go into Argala or something, it's because I had an objective in mind but I do NOT get caught in the trap of doing stuff like that constantly because I value fun, and I have certain other places (and sadly the Fight Club mentality I described in another post is very true here) that I will not talk about, that I go because I enjoy them even if they aren't what's "desirable" or I don't level fast.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
You guys keep ignoring the player base and keep forcing us in to the DR content. The metrics demand we need to go to Argala and Bug Hunt.
Do you guys at least feel any type of remorse?
My question exactly. Someone at Cryptic is making the call to not only destroy the game for players, they are expediting their employees to the unemployment line.
these nerfs are not only transparent but also self-defeating.
There is no way for you to put a positive spin on this, Cryptic. Wow, you sure do know how to motivate a player to keep playing other games and not STO. This is supposed to incentivize me to return to STO how exactly? I am so disappointed in you.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Taking feedback, considering it, then ultimately choosing not to implement it is not the same as being ignored...
That's totally right, its not the same. However, disregarding customers putting money into your product generally has only one outcome eventually. The direction of STO post DR feels more like New Coke with every patch.
The more people fail queues, the more they'll become frustrated, you make it worse by not helping new players get Borg neural processors and ancient power cells so they can get started with rep/fleet gear @ mk xii..
Don't you want players to "want" to upgrade their shiny new Romulan Beam arrays etc ?
If people could actually get half decent rep gear, they would be more inclined to want to start upgrading items.
Bug hunt bonus is cool.
But there's no need to cut anymore rewards elsewhere..rewards are pretty miserable all around now.
Give a bit more where you'd like us to play, make a daily rotation. Anything else really. I'm very skeptical about the reduced optional timers. That's going to lead to even more frustration.
The biggest problem I can see with the queues, is the time per reward.. (SO MANY HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED THIS) you have to reward accordingly for the longer ones or people will just keep grinding the shorter more reliable ones, such as cure, crystalline, infected, and khitomer.
You need a ratio, and stick to it. Across the pve board.
Argala is packed, that's cool but, if you want people doing queues more regularily, your going to need to buff Skill XP across all pve queues.
Currently an stf gives about 2500xp for 10 mins approx
Argala you clear 10k in about 5 -8 mins.
Anyone who really wants SPEC points will not be doing a whole lot of pve queue hopping, they'll be repeating argala steadily..
Keep trying to balance things, but please also consider the time to reward ratio. That's key here.
And remember "The tighter you squeeze, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
I've been playing a while, but the devs seem determined to see what will be the straw that breaks the backs of the players and makes us all leave.
Ding Ding ding!1!! We have a winner
You remember some time ago when PWE made some sort of comment or announcement that Cryptic is their "R&D" department? (or something to that effect) The "R&D" they are doing isn't related to game engines or graphics ..
It's R&D into WTF the "Pain Threshold" is for a western MMO audience. How long until we say "frak it!" and drop the mic on the way out; How much TRIBBLE we put up with before we leave or open our wallets.
So yeah, pretty much a lot of this is jut to see how much TRIBBLE we're willing to deal with - how long it takes for the frog to recognize its' being boiled.
Another round of PvE queue updates have been made and are making their way to Tribble for extra testing. This particular batch of updates has focused on increasing difficulty for queues that are being completed at a higher rate than expected and decreasing rewards for queues that have been over-rewarding as compared to the reward levels we have established across all PvE queues. We expect that these will be the only queues changed in such ways during this first pass of updates. As mentioned previously, this is an ongoing effort to improve STO and this update (and those that came before) are not the entirety of what will be done.
New to Tribble this week:
Bug Hunt
The rewards for successfully completing the Normal difficulty version of this PvE queue have been increased by an additional 25% above what they have been previously, while the rewards for successfully completing the Advanced difficulty version have been increased by an additional 50% and the rewards for successfully completing the Elite difficulty version have been increased by 75%.
The Cure Applied
The I.K.S. Kang has had its hull, shields and damage bonuses for Advanced difficulty reduced by half. The mark rewards for successfully completing the optional objective in Normal difficulty have been reduced from 25 marks to 15 marks. The optional objective in Normal difficulty has been updated for completing the queue in 15 minutes to completing the queue in 4 minutes or less. The objective in Advanced difficulty requiring that players complete the queue in 15 minutes or less has been updated to requires players to complete the queue in 9 minutes or less.
Crystalline Catastrophe
The base mark rewards for successfully completing Normal difficulty have been decreased from 40 to 30 marks and for successfully completing Advanced difficulty have been decreased from 70 to 60 marks. Additionally, the failure rewards for Advanced difficulty have been increased from 5 to 10 marks. The optional objective in Advanced difficulty has been updated from completing the queue in 10.5 minutes to completing the queue in 5 minutes or less. The optional objective in Normal difficulty and the objective in Advanced difficulty requiring that no more than 50% of players die during the Crystalline Entity’s pulse power, now requires that no more than 30% of players die during this same phase. The Crystalline Entity’s pulse power no longer has a safe inner distance and this pulse no longer damages or destroys Crystalline Fragments (large or small).
Colony Invasion
The base mark rewards for successfully completing this PvE queue have been decreased from 40 to 30 marks.
Fleet Alert
The mark rewards for completing waves one and two have been decreased from 10 to 5 marks. The mark rewards for completing wave five has been decreased from 18 to 15. The mark rewards for completing waves three and four remain unchanged at 10 marks.
Available on Tribble next week:
Atmosphere Assault
The rewards for successfully completing the Normal difficulty version of this PvE queue have been increased by an additional 250% above what they have been previously while the rewards for successfully completing the Advanced difficulty version have been increased by an additional 400% above what they have been previously. Additionally, the Elachi Walkers have had their hull and shields reduced.
Charles Gray
Lead Content Designer
Star Trek Online
Mr Grey
It is clear to me and to many others you are out of touch with your pug Pve Qs
I suggest you play a few Qs that actually have people in them join a few fleets an gather feedback from the players in stealth mode
Argala gives 7500 experience solo for 5 minutes of playing and some loot with mk12 gear with most any character class
the rest of the games content gives 2000 or less
dyson ground gives 7500 dilithium for about 20 minutes of play with mk12 gear
avg STFs take about 10 minutes in a pug and reward what 720 ? so 1440 for 20 minutes
These are the standards and why the Qs are failing you have to be completely out of touch not to see this
Some say bug hunt is too easy but in a pug it is not only in a dps league or fleet team is it easy and these groups should never be used to set a standard for pugs.................If you want to make it harder for elite players increase the difficulty for private matchs and team matchs
Remove the Fail conditions from pug matchs
The rewards for space STFs and ground are pitiful compared to your standards set by argula and dyson
Its a no brainer why the Qs are struggling and many plain empty
Why upgrade a ship in the R&D system when there isn't anything rewarding to do once you upgrade ? pay more to do less ? what logic is that
you need to NERF argula and dyson or BUFF the rest of the game the their standards
you seem to be NERFING the rest of the game
I wonder what spock would say ? Not logical comes to my mind
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
Meh.
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Where are the elite versions? When you lack the elite version for a queue that means those players who would rather play at elite are instead forced to play at advanced.
Pretty sure there is a big group of players out there that would love a CCElite, or an ISElite. Just sayin.
Instead of capitalizing on what looked to me to be a huge success from the Legacy of Romulus expansion you doubled down on everything players hate. I may be a lone in this opinion but I really felt like you left LoR half finished, so much more could have been done to add to that expansion. I loved the story, loved the content and I was actually having fun, so naturally things had to go in a different direction. Got it.
I'm not sure what your metrics are telling you. I can tell you that Cure Space Advanced is currently one of the most often failed STFs in PUGs, and before Delta Rising, Cure Space Elite was one of the most often failed STFs in PUGs. Maybe, you need better metrics, because what you are saying does not accord with my experience. Possibly, Cure Space Advanced has a high completion rate in private matches; that I wouldn't know.
EDIT1: Can we get more information on what you are measuring and how the data was collected? Honestly, I'm looking at some of the changes and your reasons for them and left scratching my head.
EDIT2: You also seem to have a typo. "The Cure Applied" is the name of Cure Ground. The name of Cure Space is "The Cure Found".
Expertise/Skill Point gain from queued events is noticably different than experience gained from things such as Argala. Cryptic knows this already.
So people do queued events for the marks and r&d rewards, not experience.
So if you nerf the mark payouts... that just gives people less incentive to do the queued events. Which should be the opposite you are trying to accomplish at this point in the game's development.
So the classic queues are going to be harder and less rewarding. The new ones get a boost.
As a standard PUGer, it's much harder to run queues than it used to be. The Delta Quadrant has little to no dilithium in space where my bread and butter is, and the DR advanced and elite space queues are generally unwinnable for the average Joe. Which is where you need to go to get the gear to beat the Advanced and Elite space queues...and then there's Bug Hunt.
I can understand giving the new Queues a boost in rewards, that's fine, but there's no reason to knee cap the old ones. And what's with the dilithium cut back. We need opportunities to earn the crystals now more than ever. There were complaints ages ago that we had nothing to spend our dilithium on. Now there's an insurmountable amount to spend it on to remain relevant, and you're slashing sources (that are now inadequate to start) to make it even harder to advance.
Just...no.
I understand that some of the developers are truly wanting to try to find a way to make the game as enjoyable as it was before DR, as well as not having every queue become a walkthrough just like the old elite missions were. However, the process that was used has obviously not worked. Otherwise you wouldnt be making these changes, and others to try to fix what has happened.
Though I was here before DR, I dont feel entitled to things as some might assume. Others who have similar opinions to me may not feel entitled either. I am disabled, and have no source of income. For that reason, I have no problem at all grinding for what I want from the C-Store, and for anything in the game that some might buy Zen to convert into Dil to buy. The only time I have a problem with grinding is when it becomes the main focus in the game, and the fun aspect of it suffers. (Note: When I say that an overabundance of grind is not fun, I mean for myself, and ones like me. I know that some people like playing game just for the grind.)
With that in mind, DR could have been done differently, and still given players the same experience for the most part they had before, and more. But, we cannot forget about the new players that tried STO when DR came out. These are new players that dont already have a lot of the grind done that they have accumulated over the months, and years before the expansion.
They went from level 1-50 at a decent pace, and then were hit with not just a very high level grind from level 50-60, but all the other grinds.
Rep Systems
1-Omega
2-Nukara
3-New Romulus
4-Dyson
5-Species 8472
6-Delta
Crafting (Which starts at level 15, but would still be going on at this point, unless the player only focused on it, and not leveled the character.
7-Beams
8-Cannons
9-Shields
10-Science
11-Ground Weapons
12-Engineering
13-Projectile
Then the upgrades to weapons and gear, which include EC, and Dil grinds. As well as the dill and EC grinds for rep systems as well.
All of this with very few missions to play.
I know that before DR, there were a few missions added throughout the year, and we were mostly doing endgame content like STFs and PVEs. However, one of the biggest draws for them by me and a lot of people I know was that they gave rewards for them that made them feel like you were accomplishing something. They made you feel good about doing them.
Did the queues need an overhaul, yes they did. However, they got overhauled into this big mess of a constant grind. That means that instead of smarter AI, we got DPS sponges, and reduction in rewards. Now it feels like we are being rewarded less for doing more work than before. Almost like we are slapped in the face for playing the game at level 50-60. (Note: I am not saying that was the intent, but it is the feeling of myself, and some have told me they feel the same).
Therefore, there are some suggestions I do have that may help.
1-Before DR, we had Normal STFs open at level 45. Since normal is now easier than they used to be, all queued missions should be opened up at level 45 that give marks for the rep systems that are not mission locked at level 50. Also, the changes that are listed to come out soon, they should not be implemented at all.
2-The rep systems that are not locked behind a level 50 mission should be allowed to be started at level 45. None of the items can be purchased, but the rep systems can be leveled. This will help with the grind that starts at level 50 for BNPs and other special currencies for any of them.
3-The advanced queues should be slightly harder than the old elite should have been. This would mean that if more enemies were added, then they are added. Timers left like they were, and possible the enemies are a LITTLE tankier. Since making the AI smarter is not an option, then not over doing the hp pools of all enemies is the only way at this time to counter it.
Elite should be like an epic battle. It should be something that when you are finished, you feel like you did more than just out DPS the NPC. It is something that should involve more tactics than the simple ones needed at advanced.
I have tried a few other MMOs over the past year and a half. One of the things that I loved about some of them was not that there were different levels of the same mission you could do. That is no different than replaying the same mission at a higher level, and it scaling to you. Instead, there were different missions all together. And to get into one, you have to be at a certain level, or it will allow up to a certain amount of players in, and scale to the amount of players.
Also, these newer missions were more epic than before, and a lot of them required healers, tanks, and DPSers. Everyone had a role. There were some that didnt use the trinity, and they were still good, but they did scale to the amount of players, and needed a tactic that was different in some way than all the other missions. However, with STO, the three difficulty missions are almost the same things. Some enemies might be different than ones that were there before, or they had higher hp pools, but they are the same.
Why not make the queues that are available at levels 50-60 only go up to advanced, and give certain rewards. Then, make new missions all together that are tied to a side quest, or not even part of a main mission, or quest at all. These can be locked out to players at 60, and they can be a whole new animal. They will reward much higher than all the other queues, and they will also need to be done differently, and with healers. The enemy throws out debuffs, and other attacks that make DPSers lose their punch, tanks can lose defense, and Science need to do crowd control, and heal.
There is a large variety of what can be done, and it will open up the queues we have now to being left alone, except for maybe a little Nerfing to the hp pools in advance. But these new, epic queues should reward epic rewards at levels you cant get anywhere else. Then, all that will need to be tweaked are just those.
Finally, let us convert marks into rep system currency. Make it so that you cant take 5 Omega marks and turn them into a BNP, and turn it into 1,000 dil. Instead, make it equal to 1,000 Dil worth of marks for the same amount BNP that equal 1,000 marks. Then there will not be any easy Dil made, and those that have trouble for whatever reason dont need to run the advanced.
I know that this is long, but I hope it may offer some helpful suggestions that can be used.
Tim.
I've been sticking around in the hopes that the rewards for other content will be increased to reflect the values of the new content. This is the exact opposite of what I had been expecting/hoping to happen.
Cryptic, if, like everyone seems to suggest, you want players to play the new content, why don't you normalize the rewards of all content, new and old (by BUFFING old content), and just have a "flavor of the month" bonus: +20% everything on the content you want us to be playing until something new comes out.
Not on the surface, no. But by also making the optionals harder, there's a stacked effect that IS actually pretty big.
And guess why people play CCA all the time, not because its that much fun, simple because its the last one they can win.
People here will try a queue once, if the fail it maybe try a second time, if fail again simply stop to play it, and move on to something else.
By that way the game is losing more and more contant to play.
In the past even when i not hab much time hopped in for some mintues did a queue.
Now that almost no longer possible. I either have to wait ages to get together enough people from the flleet, or wait mintues just to have a instand fail with a pug.
The top 3 fondery thing will not change that problem at all, most fonder missions are simply to long, ow can take 2h just to play one fondery?
Sure u know many of your player have family job and children, than u need something u can play in short time, if not u will move on to an other game.
If the is the targed behind that changes, make sto more timeconsuming and dive people away from the game, yes than u do perfect.
All the years work put into content just tossed into the toilet. With nothing but ultra easy Bug Hunt, or ultra boring Argala to replace it!
Show some guts and tell those PwE fools that variety is a Priority.
Take that 70% reward bonus for bug hunt and put it on a calendar. Breach one day, Mine Trap another. Dump the stupid, asinine, repulsive, mood killer fail optional and get back to WORK on making us customers fun things to do.
You have a job, Do Your Work!
Don't forget that also the bug hunt difficulty was increased in one of the last patches.
Problem I'd say is there are like 5 Q's actually being done.
Increase the rewards of others, adjust their difficulty.
Or bring back hourly events in some way to make us want to do *that* content please.
On the other side of things, guys...atleast they havn't Sorted you guys out for plasma sploiting yet. :P so be happy u still are supporting insane dps
Delta rising is a awsome project. and thank you guys for it!
'
The players love it. Just look at most of the posts here. What more proof do we need?
DR is indeed the best expansion. My faith in Cryptic is renewed. They're professionals. I can't argue with them...
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This is a big question. VERY counterintuitive here.
And it's a shame that this messed-up change is going to taint the good change (i.e. the Foundry) by association.
But I've made up my mind about something when DR dropped. It's pretty much summed up by (ironic!) Maje Culluh. "I will do WHAT I want, WHERE I want!" I will not be steered into whatever areas the devs want me to be in. If I DO go into Argala or something, it's because I had an objective in mind but I do NOT get caught in the trap of doing stuff like that constantly because I value fun, and I have certain other places (and sadly the Fight Club mentality I described in another post is very true here) that I will not talk about, that I go because I enjoy them even if they aren't what's "desirable" or I don't level fast.
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I'm getting increasingly concerned by the decisions you people are making over there.
In which alternate universe do these changes improve the game?
My question exactly. Someone at Cryptic is making the call to not only destroy the game for players, they are expediting their employees to the unemployment line.
these nerfs are not only transparent but also self-defeating.
Joined January 2009
That's totally right, its not the same. However, disregarding customers putting money into your product generally has only one outcome eventually. The direction of STO post DR feels more like New Coke with every patch.
Don't you want players to "want" to upgrade their shiny new Romulan Beam arrays etc ?
If people could actually get half decent rep gear, they would be more inclined to want to start upgrading items.
Bug hunt bonus is cool.
But there's no need to cut anymore rewards elsewhere..rewards are pretty miserable all around now.
Give a bit more where you'd like us to play, make a daily rotation. Anything else really. I'm very skeptical about the reduced optional timers. That's going to lead to even more frustration.
The biggest problem I can see with the queues, is the time per reward.. (SO MANY HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED THIS) you have to reward accordingly for the longer ones or people will just keep grinding the shorter more reliable ones, such as cure, crystalline, infected, and khitomer.
You need a ratio, and stick to it. Across the pve board.
Argala is packed, that's cool but, if you want people doing queues more regularily, your going to need to buff Skill XP across all pve queues.
Currently an stf gives about 2500xp for 10 mins approx
Argala you clear 10k in about 5 -8 mins.
Anyone who really wants SPEC points will not be doing a whole lot of pve queue hopping, they'll be repeating argala steadily..
Keep trying to balance things, but please also consider the time to reward ratio. That's key here.
And remember "The tighter you squeeze, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Ding Ding ding!1!! We have a winner
You remember some time ago when PWE made some sort of comment or announcement that Cryptic is their "R&D" department? (or something to that effect) The "R&D" they are doing isn't related to game engines or graphics ..
It's R&D into WTF the "Pain Threshold" is for a western MMO audience. How long until we say "frak it!" and drop the mic on the way out; How much TRIBBLE we put up with before we leave or open our wallets.
So yeah, pretty much a lot of this is jut to see how much TRIBBLE we're willing to deal with - how long it takes for the frog to recognize its' being boiled.
Mr Grey
It is clear to me and to many others you are out of touch with your pug Pve Qs
I suggest you play a few Qs that actually have people in them join a few fleets an gather feedback from the players in stealth mode
Argala gives 7500 experience solo for 5 minutes of playing and some loot with mk12 gear with most any character class
the rest of the games content gives 2000 or less
dyson ground gives 7500 dilithium for about 20 minutes of play with mk12 gear
avg STFs take about 10 minutes in a pug and reward what 720 ? so 1440 for 20 minutes
These are the standards and why the Qs are failing you have to be completely out of touch not to see this
Some say bug hunt is too easy but in a pug it is not only in a dps league or fleet team is it easy and these groups should never be used to set a standard for pugs.................If you want to make it harder for elite players increase the difficulty for private matchs and team matchs
Remove the Fail conditions from pug matchs
The rewards for space STFs and ground are pitiful compared to your standards set by argula and dyson
Its a no brainer why the Qs are struggling and many plain empty
Why upgrade a ship in the R&D system when there isn't anything rewarding to do once you upgrade ? pay more to do less ? what logic is that
you need to NERF argula and dyson or BUFF the rest of the game the their standards
you seem to be NERFING the rest of the game
I wonder what spock would say ? Not logical comes to my mind
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
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