There's your answer to why you mostly see PvP players. You filled your friends list with people that liked to PvP.
When I play I always see former City of Heroes players. Why? Cuz those are the people on my friends list, Who are members of the channels I listen to.
Does that mean that the majority of STO players are former City of Heroes players? No. It's just the the group of players I choose to hang out with.
Yeah keep telling yourself that. :P 5 years of PvPers complaining about empty PvP queues and zones disagrees with your beliefs.
That was sort of my point... the people I choose to hang around with are all GONE. As in the vast majority of the PvP players I have met over the last 5+ years have ALL left. Perhaps your friends list is still looking good I don't know. That could have something to do with Cryptic making it hard to enjoy the PvP aspect of STO perhaps.
As for PvP ques being empty... yes its true any time Cryptic releases a large grind the PvP ques die for as long as it takes for people to grind out the latest must have for PvP.
And thank you for being honest and admitting that PvP has only been of interest to a small percentage of the player base.
Don't recall that. When I started playing STO believe it or not I was NOT a pvp guy. Never bothered with it in any other game. The PvE People I started playing with at first are the ones that jumped in so I followed.
This game had a large % of PvP people... and a lot larger % of people that where willing if not really excited to try it out.
There have been plenty of suggestions for Cryptic to make PvP in STO more akin to PvP in Guild Wars. Where those types of issues are almost completely removed.
The truth is they don't see $ in such a system... its easier to just do nothing.
What grates most long time players who do like PvP. Isn't as much the lack of doing anything. Its the constant promising TO do things. Which never come to be.
I haven't seen many promises regarding PvP lately. But I always thought it was just a tactic - sure, maybe they hoped they could pull it off one day. But... in the end, it was never really realistic. But they couldn't come out and say: "Nope, that's it for PvP, aside from the occassional balance problem or bugfix, you get nothing". Because where is the gain in that? It will only cause people to leave the game.
Now they don't really say anything about PvP enhancements any more. And PvPers still hope for something. But that hope is build up on nothing. There is no reason to believe that they will ever add features to PvP. Heck, since they removed exploration content due to low quality, it's more likely they just remove it. But they won't most likely, because there are still hardcore PvPers here that only put up with the rest for their PvP fix. No one really relied on exploration for their entertainment in that way.
Perfect balance is hard to achieve - though we were quite close in Season 1.2.
Season 1.2 still had a lot of useless powers in it. Even powers that are now staples, like beam fire at will. I am afraid people just look back with rose-colored glasses to Season 1.2. We haven't had that game for over 4 years now.
And think about all the ships you don't have. You wouldn't even be able to fly a Intrepid in Tier 5 PvP.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Red Alerts would not always be borg. (Fed-Klingon relations would take a turn for the worse)
PvE would meet PvP and I think it is doable to where everybody would have fun.
Ew, gross. Keep your PvP out of my PvE, thanks.
Personally, I've always been of the view that PvP and PvE games should be segregated - nothing good ever comes of devs trying to jam both of them into a game. Obnoxious PvP griefer-types throwing their toxic attitudes around in chat and/or messing with the PvE content in an attempt to aggravate other players into PvP, attempts to "balance" one side TRIBBLE up the other and generating lots of bad will on the forums/in chat, etc.
It's been a mess in every PvE MMO I've played. Just make it stop.
(Another thought I've had in some MMOs I've tried - you'd think that the really vocal gung-ho PvPers would want to be playing the Excellent PvP in a game designed for & around it, rather than the crappy broken PvP-minigames that keep getting duct-taped to the side of mostly-PvE MMOs. :P)
you use BO skills in pvp, right?
This "improves"** the entire game for everyone, while a major pvp change affects a very small % of players (hard core pvp folks -- it affects everyone who plays a little pvp but the casual pvpers are not the ones demanding overhaul).
PVP is in a catch 22 and has been since way before I started playing (I started about when romulans were let loose). Few people play it because its broken. Its broken because fixing it does not affect many players...
** The changes are unclear as to whether they are actually good or not, and speculation opinions vary on the topic. I have no opinion yet.
Because PVP isn't an integral part of STO. Boffs are. Don't see this? Spend more time with the game. Its quite easy to spend a day without entering into a PVP match, whereas all space combat and most ground combat involves your custom minions.
Also, if you want quality competitive multiplayer look for a purpose built product (ie. some game that's built itself from the ground up to host PVP, anything STO could do would be compromised in some way in order to accommodate those aspects it does make central to its design). Looking to casual MMO's for your slug-fests probably isn't the most reasonable approach to the genre.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Personally, I've always been of the view that PvP and PvE games should be segregated - nothing good ever comes of devs trying to jam both of them into a game. Obnoxious PvP griefer-types throwing their toxic attitudes around in chat and/or messing with the PvE content in an attempt to aggravate other players into PvP, attempts to "balance" one side TRIBBLE up the other and generating lots of bad will on the forums/in chat, etc.
It's been a mess in every PvE MMO I've played. Just make it stop.
My suggestion would be completely optional to a PvE player, simply don't push the button to go on Red Alert. I would be for making it clear what the enemy was so you could make an informed decision. If you enter Kerrat you'll likely be alone, but joining a red alert like this guarantees one numbers and no worries about letting a team down or being solely responsible for victory. It really is okay to just blow up. T1-T6 ships all at once doing their respective best with no pressure on any one person. Would be similar to the Fleet Defense scenario but with fewer ships manned by real people for enemies. I think a lot of folks would try it for fun, even if you wouldn't. The high end dps pve'rs wanted smarter enemies, well we've got lots of unique, named enemies out there in PvP fleets. Let's turn them into content for the masses!
Did you ever play wowcraft? I spent more time harvesting flowers than just about anything else. I determined early on I wasn't up for the hardcore pvp battlefields. There was something i got a kick out of though, when cities were attacked I'd find a nice spot on the roof of a building and shoot arrows down on the invaders. I was much inferior in gear and skill but occasionally I made a difference. I was proud of those achievements I earned from city fights. I got kills on every race and class and looked forward to that event.
I get that zone chat could be problematic, so make it faction-specific chat for coordination and at least keeping the insults and cheers among one's own team.
Some of the PvE guys hate for PvP in general is pretty evident. lol
You guys need to trek it up a bit and chill out. Inclusion is cool.
Seriously though this game WAS in fact a very good PvP game for the fist year. Yes it had no real open PvP which many die hard PvP people love. Having said that the balance was there after the first few sweeps of the launch game. It was a rock solid PvP game for I would say 6 months after launch till around the 1.5y mark. Then it was all down hill. Since then the game has bleed most of the PvP base.
Even if you are not a big fan of PvP , I can't imagine why you would have any issue with in in a MMO. Its a standard feature of pretty much every MMO on the market. Its also frankly done better by pretty much everyone of them... despite STO having one of the best CORE PvP setups. The core STO game is a VERY fun PvP game. Its the layer of 4 years of junk power creep and $ grab power sinks that have rubbed the shine off.
Anyone that has played GW knows a theme park like STO can have a solid PvP game included it in that would only improve the game as a whole. No one is talking about forcing people to do PvP... just like no one is going to force anyone to do 20 man group content.
Honestly Cryptics stance, is honestly a bit confusing. In general PvP and PvE are 2 markets in these types of games with a lot of overlap. Most MMOs do try to bring in both groups cause they feed off each other and improve overall player numbers. Games like GW2 have both crowds and a majority of people that are not either, when I play GW I do group PvE and PvP almost equally. When I play EvE believe it or not I do more PvE then anything else. (if you want exploration Eve has it STO doesn't... I just finished a 3 hour tour of worm hole space in eve forgot to bookmark an exit and didn't want to log in a wormhole so I hole surfed and made a ton of isk and had more fun then you should have exploring things)
All well whats it matter... at this point I'm pretty sure Cryptic doesn't care about PvP or PvE or any of us living in North America. There getting the systems fixed so they can port it to Xbox China. lol If the next major change is a UI simplification its confirmed. haha
From what I can see, many of the recent changes to the game benefit PvP, since more powers, BOffs, ship abilities, upgrades, etc, all serve to widen the power gap between veteran & newer players. PvPers should quit whining and stop demanding changes that are not necessarily beneficial to new players. Maybe the bulk of whales are PvPers, but without a steady influx of new players, any game is already dead, and merely waiting for the lights to be turned off... :rolleyes:
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Personally, I've always been of the view that PvP and PvE games should be segregated - nothing good ever comes of devs trying to jam both of them into a game.
It's not impossible, since the "hard bit" is maintaining balance in the PVP side. I would argue that STO did so pretty well up until LOR, which is when the powercreep really went mad.
I mean, I am a poor PVPer (not least because of an obsession with themed builds, poor reflexes, and a lack of voice comms...) but I could still play and enjoy it for most of that period. After that point I began to feel like I was being punished for wanting to play a Klingon ship and crew. What was good at that stage was that you could grind a bit and get a toon which was good enough to throw into the arena - and enough players felt able to do so that even a weak player had a reasonable chance of putting up a fight.
Unfortunately, Cryptic decided that the playerbase would not roll Romulan alts unless they were obviously superior in space combat with wierd abilities - frankly simply giving Roms a schtick of "big battlecloak-capable ships" would probably have done enough - and that players would not keep playing unless their alts grew ever-more-powerful. This rather dim view of the playerbase is what has made PVP unrewarding for all but the most dedicated.
A more balanced approach could have avoided much of the powercreep in the first place - for example, would there really have been a backlash if rep passives had been capped in early 2013 instead of 2014? I think not - players would not have fallen into the mindset of expecting ever-more-tricks. The same extensions of gameplay could have been introduced via diversity instead of naked powercreep. Heck, even the specialisations could have been handled in that way.
So no, I don't think that PVE / PVP balancing is impossible. It just requires forethought to balance players' expectations.
From what I can see, many of the recent changes to the game benefit PvP, since more powers, BOffs, ship abilities, upgrades, etc, all serve to widen the power gap between veteran & newer players. PvPers should quit whining and stop demanding changes that are not necessarily beneficial to new players. Maybe the bulk of whales are PvPers, but without a steady influx of new players, any game is already dead, and merely waiting for the lights to be turned off... :rolleyes:
This is completely wrong. The DR changes have only hurt PvP. Significantly.
Why would widening the gap between veterans and new players help?
Why would widening the gap between veterans and new players help?
Exactly, it doesn't. New players are not going to be doing PvP any time soon (after their first 10-second vape); the power gap is the result of a long trend toward P2W on the server. The changes since S9.5 have only served to lengthen the time a new player can reach a competitive PvP level, so it's mainly the veterans who getting any benefit at all from the new power structure.
Unless a player opens their wallet and buys the Zen & dill to afford all the resources for exotic BOff abilities, weapons, consoles, ships, etc., they will NEVER be competitive with the veteran PvP players. As a new player, there is simply too much dil sink to keep up with veteran players sitting on large piles of dil, whether they farmed it or bought it.
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
This is purely my personal take on how STO has evolved.
Season 1: Common Ground
(PvP, new fleet actions, more customization options)
= Space/ Ground PvP very popular.
= PvE Federation Popular
= Healthy relationships with the developers and community
Season 2: Ancient Enemies
(Level cap increase (40-50), Tier 5 ships, new content (Undine Advance, Klingon Sector, Diplomacy missions)
= Space/ Ground PvP very popular.
= PvE Federation/ Klingon Popular
= Healthy relationships with the developers and community
Season 3: Genesis
(The Foundry (Beta), Sector Space graphics revamp)
= Space/ Ground PvP very popular.
= PvE Federation/ Klingon Popular
= Healthy relationships with the developers and community
Season 4: Crossfire
(The Foundry (Beta), Sector Space graphics revamp)
= Space/ very popular.
= Start of Ground PvP Decline
= PvE Federation/ Klingon Popular
= Disagreements between the developers and community start to show
Season 5: Call to Arms
(Defera Adventure Zone, Duty Officer system, skill revamp and STF overhaul)
= Golden age of Space PvP
= Some Ground PvP Resurgence
= PvE Popular partly due to drive for gear for PvP.
= Disagreements between the developers and community grow as community feel like they are not being listened to.
Season 6: Under Siege
(Fleet Advancement System (including fleet ships and missions), Nukara Adventure Zone)
= Signs of Issues start emerging Space PvP, but still contained by regular updates and fixes.
= PvP inter-fleet rivalry, accusations of foul play etc doesn't do PvPers any favors.
= Lockbox debacle starts to erode faction uniqueness, which further aggravates the small KDF population.
= Ground PvP Declines drastically and new skill system forces people to focus on one thing - majority pick space.
= More Emphasis on PvE focus
= Hostility amongst the community grow as sects of Us vs. them starts to play the blaming game.
Season 7: New Romulus
(New Romulus Adventure Zone, Reputation System and Tau Dewa Sector Block)
= PvP becomes a problem child, along with the KDF.
= Grind starts to erode currencies and contributes to decline of competitive gear + exorbitant inflation on exchange now common.
= There remains the hope that PvP will still make a come back.
Expansion: Legacy of Romulus
(Playable Romulan faction (with its own ships, missions and hubs), Klingon missions for levels 1-20, Nimbus Adventure Zone, UI revamp, New equipment slot: Warp Core)
= PvP becomes the parvue of the elite. Few new players even attempt to participate.
= Sole Emphasis on PvE content, starting to show behind "walls" even "paygates" of sorts.
Season 8: The Sphere
(New enemy (the Voth) and Reputation faction, Dyson Sphere Space Adventure Zone & Ground Battlezone)
= PvP completely abandoned as a priority, due to the improbability of resolving balance issues.
= 100% PvE
= Developer engagement with PvP stops dead in its tracks with visible disregard and antagonism existing on both side.
Season 8.5
(4th Anniversary with new Feature Mission, Klingon War revamp, starship switching mechanics)
= 100% PvE with Klingon players basically told to find a quiet little planet where they can go die.
Season 9: A New Accord
(New Feature Mission advancing timeline to 2410, Space Battlezone, Borg Advance revamp, revamp of Reputation System, Traits & Kits)
= 100% PvE and its GREAT to be Starfleet!!
Season 9.5
(Crafting revamp)
= 100% PvE with emphasis on monetisation of content.
Expansion: Delta Rising
(Level cap increase (50-60), Tier 6 ships and Mk XIII-XIV gear, addition of Delta Quadrant)
= Achilles heal of STO. With no PvP and no bad guys to fight, the Federation starts to cannibalise the remains of STO namely the new improved grind mechanics and what-not.
Not sure if anyone has pointed out what logic I am about to state?
Not everyone pvp's in STO, but evryone in STO has BOFF's. So it is most logical to me that the devs would focus their time on something that actually concerns the majority. It kind of falls under the logic philosophy as so famously quoted by Spock, "The needs of the many outway the needs of the few or the one!"
Of all the games out there STO is one of the few where they could in fact make a lot of money off PvP with out any power creep. They are simply a zero vision developer.
We have told them many times how to make money of a mostly balanced PvP system.
This is a game where people in fact really care about things like titles and cosmetics.
A PvP system that unlocked titles... for things like Games played, games won, deaths incurred ect would be popular. Or just have a bunch of cool titles for Dilihtium purchase at rep level 2 3 4 5 ect. Make us earn PvP tokens and start projects like any other rep (which also eats resources and makes them money) A PvP rep system that unlocked a PvP store that sold things like PvP Skins, PvP goofies like Fireworks displays and ship cammos (like the latinum ones) would also be popular, as well as make them loads of money.
Most PvP people are against the idea of a PvP rep cause we know what Cryptic would do with it. Making it just another grind for power... and a legit reason for no one to ever start from scratch.
A PvP rep system however could be extremely popular and PROFITABLE if it was done 100% minus the power creep issues that every other rep intros. Even if Tier 5 PvP rep only unlocked the ability to buy Zen store only unique ship skins... they would make a killing of just appreciation purchases. I would buy everyone just to support the idea.
Couldn't agree with this more. It really feels like Cryptic got incredibly lazy and stale after S6 and just copy/pasted the same ideas and systems in new UIs since then. PvP could be amazing, it could be profitable.
I see FFA maps, barebone fighting maps with disabled uni consoles, rep, spec points, and doffs. PvP specifc gear, PvP only enabled consoles, even ship costumes to throw off the enemy. There should be tiered ship matches, shuttle pvp and a lot of PvEvP. I'd hesitate about mentioning PvP Rep, but Rep in this game isn't Rep its just something they called Rep.
Dude, when Delta Rising arrived cats came before PvP. If those furbags got in first we can certainly conclude that anything and everything will come before any sort of serious PvP fix.
Dude, when Delta Rising arrived cats came before PvP. If those furbags got in first we can certainly conclude that anything and everything will come before any sort of serious PvP fix.
You do realize slapping a cat graphic down on a system that doesn't need tweaking is a tiny bit easier than revamping a system right?
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Everything comes before PvP because very few people in STO PvP. I look forward to the day when PvE is the only factor that affects balance changes.
That day was somewhere around season 8.5 , what do you want more? Now pug pvp is unplayable thx intel vapers and particle manipulators (insane always crits and disables). Do you want a ban on friendly pvp?
Don't worry, guys. PvP will greatly "benefit" from the new boff training system when Cryptic starts putting "new", "improved", and "exciting" boff power training manuals in the next lockboxes. Don't like lockboxes, I'm sure Cryptic will also put boff power training manuals in the next reputation and fleet holding.
Seriously how did a system that's not broken and nobody complained about get pushed ahead of pvp? With four years and thousands of threads begging for any kind of attention, years worth of dead promises most recently when Geko was on priority one a few months ago saying "we will get to it" As it stand right now there is no reason to even build up a ship honestly someone tell me the point of building a ship? oh yeah so I can do stf's faster next time I forgot.
So STO is at the point where years or promises are not kept and customers wishes are ignored I would like for anyone to find a thread at any point during STO's history asking for a boff overhaul as compared to the hundreds of thousands of threads asking for something as simple a a new pvp map
this is pathetic even more then the "dinosaurs with frikin laser beams on their heads"
Because 1:
More people use boffs than PvP.
And 2:
No one cares about PvP except PvPers, and in this game, pPvP is a niche... This isn't Eve
Comments
That was sort of my point... the people I choose to hang around with are all GONE. As in the vast majority of the PvP players I have met over the last 5+ years have ALL left. Perhaps your friends list is still looking good I don't know. That could have something to do with Cryptic making it hard to enjoy the PvP aspect of STO perhaps.
As for PvP ques being empty... yes its true any time Cryptic releases a large grind the PvP ques die for as long as it takes for people to grind out the latest must have for PvP.
Thank you for agreeing with me.
Don't recall that. When I started playing STO believe it or not I was NOT a pvp guy. Never bothered with it in any other game. The PvE People I started playing with at first are the ones that jumped in so I followed.
This game had a large % of PvP people... and a lot larger % of people that where willing if not really excited to try it out.
Now it has neither of both groups. Simple fact.
I haven't seen many promises regarding PvP lately. But I always thought it was just a tactic - sure, maybe they hoped they could pull it off one day. But... in the end, it was never really realistic. But they couldn't come out and say: "Nope, that's it for PvP, aside from the occassional balance problem or bugfix, you get nothing". Because where is the gain in that? It will only cause people to leave the game.
Now they don't really say anything about PvP enhancements any more. And PvPers still hope for something. But that hope is build up on nothing. There is no reason to believe that they will ever add features to PvP. Heck, since they removed exploration content due to low quality, it's more likely they just remove it. But they won't most likely, because there are still hardcore PvPers here that only put up with the rest for their PvP fix. No one really relied on exploration for their entertainment in that way.
Season 1.2 still had a lot of useless powers in it. Even powers that are now staples, like beam fire at will. I am afraid people just look back with rose-colored glasses to Season 1.2. We haven't had that game for over 4 years now.
And think about all the ships you don't have. You wouldn't even be able to fly a Intrepid in Tier 5 PvP.
Ew, gross. Keep your PvP out of my PvE, thanks.
Personally, I've always been of the view that PvP and PvE games should be segregated - nothing good ever comes of devs trying to jam both of them into a game. Obnoxious PvP griefer-types throwing their toxic attitudes around in chat and/or messing with the PvE content in an attempt to aggravate other players into PvP, attempts to "balance" one side TRIBBLE up the other and generating lots of bad will on the forums/in chat, etc.
It's been a mess in every PvE MMO I've played. Just make it stop.
(Another thought I've had in some MMOs I've tried - you'd think that the really vocal gung-ho PvPers would want to be playing the Excellent PvP in a game designed for & around it, rather than the crappy broken PvP-minigames that keep getting duct-taped to the side of mostly-PvE MMOs. :P)
This "improves"** the entire game for everyone, while a major pvp change affects a very small % of players (hard core pvp folks -- it affects everyone who plays a little pvp but the casual pvpers are not the ones demanding overhaul).
PVP is in a catch 22 and has been since way before I started playing (I started about when romulans were let loose). Few people play it because its broken. Its broken because fixing it does not affect many players...
** The changes are unclear as to whether they are actually good or not, and speculation opinions vary on the topic. I have no opinion yet.
Or at least requires actual work rather than changing some numbers around in the boff window
Also, if you want quality competitive multiplayer look for a purpose built product (ie. some game that's built itself from the ground up to host PVP, anything STO could do would be compromised in some way in order to accommodate those aspects it does make central to its design). Looking to casual MMO's for your slug-fests probably isn't the most reasonable approach to the genre.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
My suggestion would be completely optional to a PvE player, simply don't push the button to go on Red Alert. I would be for making it clear what the enemy was so you could make an informed decision. If you enter Kerrat you'll likely be alone, but joining a red alert like this guarantees one numbers and no worries about letting a team down or being solely responsible for victory. It really is okay to just blow up. T1-T6 ships all at once doing their respective best with no pressure on any one person. Would be similar to the Fleet Defense scenario but with fewer ships manned by real people for enemies. I think a lot of folks would try it for fun, even if you wouldn't. The high end dps pve'rs wanted smarter enemies, well we've got lots of unique, named enemies out there in PvP fleets. Let's turn them into content for the masses!
Did you ever play wowcraft? I spent more time harvesting flowers than just about anything else. I determined early on I wasn't up for the hardcore pvp battlefields. There was something i got a kick out of though, when cities were attacked I'd find a nice spot on the roof of a building and shoot arrows down on the invaders. I was much inferior in gear and skill but occasionally I made a difference. I was proud of those achievements I earned from city fights. I got kills on every race and class and looked forward to that event.
I get that zone chat could be problematic, so make it faction-specific chat for coordination and at least keeping the insults and cheers among one's own team.
You guys need to trek it up a bit and chill out. Inclusion is cool.
Seriously though this game WAS in fact a very good PvP game for the fist year. Yes it had no real open PvP which many die hard PvP people love. Having said that the balance was there after the first few sweeps of the launch game. It was a rock solid PvP game for I would say 6 months after launch till around the 1.5y mark. Then it was all down hill. Since then the game has bleed most of the PvP base.
Even if you are not a big fan of PvP , I can't imagine why you would have any issue with in in a MMO. Its a standard feature of pretty much every MMO on the market. Its also frankly done better by pretty much everyone of them... despite STO having one of the best CORE PvP setups. The core STO game is a VERY fun PvP game. Its the layer of 4 years of junk power creep and $ grab power sinks that have rubbed the shine off.
Anyone that has played GW knows a theme park like STO can have a solid PvP game included it in that would only improve the game as a whole. No one is talking about forcing people to do PvP... just like no one is going to force anyone to do 20 man group content.
Honestly Cryptics stance, is honestly a bit confusing. In general PvP and PvE are 2 markets in these types of games with a lot of overlap. Most MMOs do try to bring in both groups cause they feed off each other and improve overall player numbers. Games like GW2 have both crowds and a majority of people that are not either, when I play GW I do group PvE and PvP almost equally. When I play EvE believe it or not I do more PvE then anything else. (if you want exploration Eve has it STO doesn't... I just finished a 3 hour tour of worm hole space in eve forgot to bookmark an exit and didn't want to log in a wormhole so I hole surfed and made a ton of isk and had more fun then you should have exploring things)
All well whats it matter... at this point I'm pretty sure Cryptic doesn't care about PvP or PvE or any of us living in North America. There getting the systems fixed so they can port it to Xbox China. lol If the next major change is a UI simplification its confirmed. haha
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
It's not impossible, since the "hard bit" is maintaining balance in the PVP side. I would argue that STO did so pretty well up until LOR, which is when the powercreep really went mad.
I mean, I am a poor PVPer (not least because of an obsession with themed builds, poor reflexes, and a lack of voice comms...) but I could still play and enjoy it for most of that period. After that point I began to feel like I was being punished for wanting to play a Klingon ship and crew. What was good at that stage was that you could grind a bit and get a toon which was good enough to throw into the arena - and enough players felt able to do so that even a weak player had a reasonable chance of putting up a fight.
Unfortunately, Cryptic decided that the playerbase would not roll Romulan alts unless they were obviously superior in space combat with wierd abilities - frankly simply giving Roms a schtick of "big battlecloak-capable ships" would probably have done enough - and that players would not keep playing unless their alts grew ever-more-powerful. This rather dim view of the playerbase is what has made PVP unrewarding for all but the most dedicated.
A more balanced approach could have avoided much of the powercreep in the first place - for example, would there really have been a backlash if rep passives had been capped in early 2013 instead of 2014? I think not - players would not have fallen into the mindset of expecting ever-more-tricks. The same extensions of gameplay could have been introduced via diversity instead of naked powercreep. Heck, even the specialisations could have been handled in that way.
So no, I don't think that PVE / PVP balancing is impossible. It just requires forethought to balance players' expectations.
i dont play sto after delta expansion, it looks like i missed something, what recent changes was benefit PVP?
This is completely wrong. The DR changes have only hurt PvP. Significantly.
Why would widening the gap between veterans and new players help?
Exactly, it doesn't. New players are not going to be doing PvP any time soon (after their first 10-second vape); the power gap is the result of a long trend toward P2W on the server. The changes since S9.5 have only served to lengthen the time a new player can reach a competitive PvP level, so it's mainly the veterans who getting any benefit at all from the new power structure.
Unless a player opens their wallet and buys the Zen & dill to afford all the resources for exotic BOff abilities, weapons, consoles, ships, etc., they will NEVER be competitive with the veteran PvP players. As a new player, there is simply too much dil sink to keep up with veteran players sitting on large piles of dil, whether they farmed it or bought it.
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Tactical Team sucked, once upon a time. I got it buffed. Don't think for a minute that Cryptic ignores forum feedback.
Season 1: Common Ground
(PvP, new fleet actions, more customization options)
= Space/ Ground PvP very popular.
= PvE Federation Popular
= Healthy relationships with the developers and community
Season 2: Ancient Enemies
(Level cap increase (40-50), Tier 5 ships, new content (Undine Advance, Klingon Sector, Diplomacy missions)
= Space/ Ground PvP very popular.
= PvE Federation/ Klingon Popular
= Healthy relationships with the developers and community
Season 3: Genesis
(The Foundry (Beta), Sector Space graphics revamp)
= Space/ Ground PvP very popular.
= PvE Federation/ Klingon Popular
= Healthy relationships with the developers and community
Season 4: Crossfire
(The Foundry (Beta), Sector Space graphics revamp)
= Space/ very popular.
= Start of Ground PvP Decline
= PvE Federation/ Klingon Popular
= Disagreements between the developers and community start to show
Season 5: Call to Arms
(Defera Adventure Zone, Duty Officer system, skill revamp and STF overhaul)
= Golden age of Space PvP
= Some Ground PvP Resurgence
= PvE Popular partly due to drive for gear for PvP.
= Disagreements between the developers and community grow as community feel like they are not being listened to.
Season 6: Under Siege
(Fleet Advancement System (including fleet ships and missions), Nukara Adventure Zone)
= Signs of Issues start emerging Space PvP, but still contained by regular updates and fixes.
= PvP inter-fleet rivalry, accusations of foul play etc doesn't do PvPers any favors.
= Lockbox debacle starts to erode faction uniqueness, which further aggravates the small KDF population.
= Ground PvP Declines drastically and new skill system forces people to focus on one thing - majority pick space.
= More Emphasis on PvE focus
= Hostility amongst the community grow as sects of Us vs. them starts to play the blaming game.
Season 7: New Romulus
(New Romulus Adventure Zone, Reputation System and Tau Dewa Sector Block)
= PvP becomes a problem child, along with the KDF.
= Grind starts to erode currencies and contributes to decline of competitive gear + exorbitant inflation on exchange now common.
= There remains the hope that PvP will still make a come back.
Expansion: Legacy of Romulus
(Playable Romulan faction (with its own ships, missions and hubs), Klingon missions for levels 1-20, Nimbus Adventure Zone, UI revamp, New equipment slot: Warp Core)
= PvP becomes the parvue of the elite. Few new players even attempt to participate.
= Sole Emphasis on PvE content, starting to show behind "walls" even "paygates" of sorts.
Season 8: The Sphere
(New enemy (the Voth) and Reputation faction, Dyson Sphere Space Adventure Zone & Ground Battlezone)
= PvP completely abandoned as a priority, due to the improbability of resolving balance issues.
= 100% PvE
= Developer engagement with PvP stops dead in its tracks with visible disregard and antagonism existing on both side.
Season 8.5
(4th Anniversary with new Feature Mission, Klingon War revamp, starship switching mechanics)
= 100% PvE with Klingon players basically told to find a quiet little planet where they can go die.
Season 9: A New Accord
(New Feature Mission advancing timeline to 2410, Space Battlezone, Borg Advance revamp, revamp of Reputation System, Traits & Kits)
= 100% PvE and its GREAT to be Starfleet!!
Season 9.5
(Crafting revamp)
= 100% PvE with emphasis on monetisation of content.
Expansion: Delta Rising
(Level cap increase (50-60), Tier 6 ships and Mk XIII-XIV gear, addition of Delta Quadrant)
= Achilles heal of STO. With no PvP and no bad guys to fight, the Federation starts to cannibalise the remains of STO namely the new improved grind mechanics and what-not.
Not everyone pvp's in STO, but evryone in STO has BOFF's. So it is most logical to me that the devs would focus their time on something that actually concerns the majority. It kind of falls under the logic philosophy as so famously quoted by Spock, "The needs of the many outway the needs of the few or the one!"
Couldn't agree with this more. It really feels like Cryptic got incredibly lazy and stale after S6 and just copy/pasted the same ideas and systems in new UIs since then. PvP could be amazing, it could be profitable.
I see FFA maps, barebone fighting maps with disabled uni consoles, rep, spec points, and doffs. PvP specifc gear, PvP only enabled consoles, even ship costumes to throw off the enemy. There should be tiered ship matches, shuttle pvp and a lot of PvEvP. I'd hesitate about mentioning PvP Rep, but Rep in this game isn't Rep its just something they called Rep.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
You do realize slapping a cat graphic down on a system that doesn't need tweaking is a tiny bit easier than revamping a system right?
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
That day was somewhere around season 8.5 , what do you want more? Now pug pvp is unplayable thx intel vapers and particle manipulators (insane always crits and disables). Do you want a ban on friendly pvp?
I was merely conveying the possibility that even the most insignificant addition, fix or tweak will come before any sort of work on PvP.
Does that work better for you?
I'm more amazed they weren't updated at the same time as the Club 47 revamp.
Because 1:
More people use boffs than PvP.
And 2:
No one cares about PvP except PvPers, and in this game, pPvP is a niche... This isn't Eve