The intent of most functions is declared more effectively at a glance in most cases. I particularly appreciate the ground icons because I'm especially awful at that and the old pictograms often got lost in translation because I was busy failing to keep my captain alive.
If there was one icon I didn't like it's Emergency Power to Shields. I recognize the change was facilitated to maintain uniformity with other EP abilities but find it no longer gels as well with Reverse Shield Polarity or Rotate Shield Frequency which have not been changed. While neither is an emergency ability the alternate representation of the shield in the new icon is inconsistent with the unchanged icons.
There are a lot of wonderful changes, but probably my favorites are the new icon for Cannon Rapid Fire and the Tachyon Beam icon fix... Now I'll actually remember to use those powers when I should because I won't have to think about what they are. Oh, and the subsystem targeting fixes, because now I won't have to mouse over each one before I click.
...Only problem is, now I'll have to think before I hit EPtS. Though the new icon looks a lot better, that change wasn't really needed. Oh well.
I see that some of them have been improved to clearly show what they are. However, a lot of them are pointless, and are no easier to figure out just by looking at them than before. And some were just pointless, like the Attack Patterns. They are the same, with just a slight addition to them.
Still, thanks for the effort to help make something in the game a little easier for the players. With all the stuff done to try to make just playing and having fun harder, it is nice to see someone making at least something in the game easier. Even if it is just graphics, it means a lot. Thanks.
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I just looked at the new icons and I will agree that the majority of the tactical and engineering icons that were designed are a ...natural evolution. I didn't like the idea of you guys trying to fix something that isn't broke....AGAIN....when there are other things that need and/or deserve attention...BUT...I must admit that, with respect to tac and eng, the majority of the overhauled icons seem to serve the intended purpose. They seem like they will be more intuitive. As for science, however, it all seems rather extraneous. The new icons are not bad. I just look at them and think, "All of this attention for THAT?!...Meh!"....sorry but the science ones just don't have that intuitive feel.
Which brings me back to what I said earlier, "I didn't like the idea of you guys trying to fix something that isn't broke....AGAIN....when there are other things that need and/or deserve attention"
Not trying to take anything away from the art & design team members, overall great job! Seriously...no sarcasm here! You all consistently turn out fantastic work...That being said, couldn't this attention to detail been of greater service and more significant impact elsewhere?
I mean, I know a lot of us who play the game need to realize that just because something is a priority to us doesn't mean that it's instantly #1 on the dev's list. Dammit, Jim...after nearly 5 years I'm still waiting on the day that I can convert my first officer to a playable captain and vice versa. It's been my #1 game wish since I started playing. But I look at all of the other developments in the game since that idea had gotten pushed to the back burner and I see a game that has far exceeded my expectations in so many other ways that usually sit here silently playing and enjoying...only commenting when it comes to tribble tests...But now I've gotta ask...
Are there not other things that need and/or are better deserving of the time and attention?...Of greater service and more significant impact...than icon redesign?!?!? Seriously...icon redesign was not THAT serious...seriously!
I do feel the new Gravity Well Icon needs to remain the same. The new looks exactly like the icon for a Romulan singularity projector. It is going to lead to a LOT of confusion for Rom Players who have that sloted on the Refit DD or have placed it on other ships.
While a lot of these do seem to convey their purpose a lot more easily if you look at them, but a lot of them seem rather too similar to each other. I think it would be rather easier to mistake one for another with these, especially in combat when you don't have much time to really scrutinise each icon. That was probably the thinking behind the old ones i.e. "keep each one as different from the others as possible" rather than "make the icons more intuitive".
As nice as they are, it strikes me as a bit of a "make work" thing
^ Well said. Sometimes simpler is better. i.e. the 4 new emergency power to X icons will all look very similar in-game whereas the old ones are easily discernible.
An icon isn't artwork, it's just an symbol that should be as simple as possible to read quickly at a glance, like traffic signage...
This reminds me so much of how all the art of doff UI as well as ship console icons as well as ground ones too how they could reverse the changes of 2014 to them. At some point can't remember where but I got to the point where I can't tell what the icon is supposed to represent. So what happens is I gotta look at the big tooltip to figure out what in the heck it is. So that was done with doff system too and now its going to happen with boffs so pretty much its going to be made to where ppl login and not know wtf is going on.
IMO its just a waste of time when there are more dire issues that need addressing. Like costumes that don't work ground and space. All the bugs from content thats like over 3 years old ppl still do or try too but is usually too buggy. My job application for cryptic is soon going to be a section of a wall that I threw buckets of paint at and see how quick I get hired.
Do the icon borders mean anything? For example, some space abilities have a border that looks like an icon for a person, some have a circle as a border, some have a hexagon, and some have none at all.
I'm pretty new, so I'm not that well-versed in all of the abilities yet. I think icon borders can be put to good use by making it easier to group which abilities puts a global cooldown on other abilities. Creating a common border for all deflector abilities for example so that it is easier for new (and old) players to spot that clicking on these icons would put all other similar icons into cooldown for instance. Uniform borders would also create a sense of cohesion between icons, creating a sense of order and making them seem less random.
For ground abilities, icon borders can also differentiate between damage, buff, debuff and healing skills.
First, good to see you Trendy, was worried you don't like us any more
Second, who ever redesigned the icons is forever in my heart.
I am one of those guys who is here since Perpetual did the concept art :rolleyes: And in all these years I never managed to recognize abilities like FAW, BO, CRF, CSV.. now I can.
I love Tyken's Rift and Gravity Well the most.
I know it is to late to bring in some wishes for the overhaul, but I personally would love to see the Captain-Ship-Bridge Officer columnn a bit reworked. Having small head icons left next to the names and/or to be able to sort the Boffs department specific. To have all Engineers in one spot, ....
That would make a comparison easier.
Do the icon borders mean anything? For example, some space abilities have a border that looks like an icon for a person, some have a circle as a border, some have a hexagon, and some have none at all.
I'm pretty new, so I'm not that well-versed in all of the abilities yet. I think icon borders can be put to good use by making it easier to group which abilities puts a global cooldown on other abilities. Creating a common border for all deflector abilities for example so that it is easier for new (and old) players to spot that clicking on these icons would put all other similar icons into cooldown for instance. Uniform borders would also create a sense of cohesion between icons, creating a sense of order and making them seem less random.
For ground abilities, icon borders can also differentiate between damage, buff, debuff and healing skills.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I think a lot of players, such as myself who have been playing since or near launch, we just learned the iconography even if they didn't really make sense. Undoubtedly it will take time to adjust but I do have some thoughts on the new icons.
As a player that mostly goes with science I will focus on those. Please excuse my PS skills, at best they are terrible.
DF (a debuff to energy damage). To me that tells the player it is a field, the downward arrow indicates a debuff and the image of the phaser tells you what is being debuffed.
EGF (a debuff to movement). Again it shows as a field and the arrows going against the player would indicate being slowed
Medical Tricorder I think was fine as the original highlighted what the ability did, which is heal instead of focusing on it being a tricorder.
Neural Neutralizer could just be a question mark above the image instead of the dots to indicate confusion or placation.
Tachyon Harmonic (direct damage to shields) Could show a player's shield facing being damaged.
They stopped doing it. They did it here. What's so difficult to understand about a simple thanks for that?
They put it in the launcher. They put it on ARC. So it's not a case that they're not telling folks. Just because some of us have been around a wee while and like it here, doesn't mean they have to do it here.
There's a big difference between wanting something and feeling entitled to it. One could say we should be entitled to knowing what they're doing, right? Which they do communicate. Doesn't mean that we're entitled to how they deliver that communication. So yeah, a simple thank you for them telling us here. A simple appreciation for the acknowledgement of how important GNN is to some of the playerbase.
We can shred them 9001 ways to Sunday about countless things, but that doesn't mean if they do something we can't toss them an attaboy for it if we appreciate them doing it...regardless of if somebody feels entitled to it, eh?
Some of us grew up in an age of please and thank you...
ahh that explains it i dont use arc and i havent played the game ina month. just coming here in hopes of seeing a change for the better.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
i was one of the people that was quite opposed to the changes made to equipment icons. my opinion was that they werent broken, everyone already had them memorised, it was only going to make inventory confusing, and so on. now, a year (?) later, i can see that i was wrong. it was a smart change that i did come to appreciate.
boff icons may just benefit from a revamp as well.
I like the new changes in general. MOST seem more visually descriptive (attack patterns showing their effect up top for instance, but there are a few things I think you could have improved on.
I think systems that share global cooldowns and/or are bonused by the same thing should have common elements. Tactical and engineering are mostly good, though FAW might use a triangle like the other beam skills for said commonality, and on the other hand you should lose the silhouette looking thing that most of the icons have.
Science is hurting in the improvement department, Tykens rift I think is worse since the downward arrows on the old versions tells you EXACTLY waht its effect does while the new one doesn't. To go with my first point, I think it would be nice if GW and Tykens shared element that you can tell at a glance both are spatial rifts, and other deflector abilities had something that represents the fact they only fire forward
It's a good change but it is a change that was not neccessary imo considering the amount of other problems in the game. Howabout doinf art work to change the bar at Quonos or making some new bridges for the ships. This is pretty but by the time the update happens this would be as useless as it its currently after all we all know what the symbols are anyway after all we slotted the powers
NO TO ARC
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Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Really? Another thing that wasn't broken but felt like changing?
I'm at a loss Cryptic really I am it's becoming ever harder to understand your strategy and accept this is something you need to do as a business. If there weren't more pressing things in game I'd be positive about this "Sure go Cryptic" but with the state things are in and you're actively looking for things that have been fine for 5 years and decide let's shake the dice and see what happens?
Where exactly has the community been vocal about this? When did this become a must do? Sure art people may not be of much help with bug fixing but this to me just reinforces my perception that Cryptic is in a world of it's own and not listening to the community and addressing the problems that exist.
When you start addressing the bigger problems and then do this sort of thing then I'll get excited.
Here we are, repainting deck chairs and moving them around. We could be making some more profound moves, like actually giving me a color wheel for costume customizing... that works and matches. Instead we are fixing something truly never broken. How about some better hair styles? What about better aliens? When can I have a DOSI KDF Captain and BOFFS? Or more options for the horns and ears ? Or non-humanoid FED aliens (I know there were some in canon).
Hmm a seperate news thread for... new icons? Not that I don't like them, I really do. But are new icons considered to be one of the most exciting features about the Boff training revamp? :P
Thanks for that. Knowing the design language is helpful.
Given that knowledge I have a few further suggestions:
For stuff that is a combined heal/buff or attack/debuff, etc. I think multiple icons should be present.
Again things that do similar stuff should share design language. For example:
FAW should have the hollow triangle beam overload and target subsystems have
Scientific aptitude and Engineering proficiency need to indicate they are team buffs (they did before), so give them the same upward arrow on the left Strike team has.
Possibly have DoTs differentiated from instantaneous damage (some have a radiation symbol, but not all)
Specific nitpicks:
-FAW should have the empty triangle the other beam abilities have to indicate it is a beam ability.
-CSV icon indicates it's a cone AOE, that's true about the weapons fire themselves, but the ability itself is a buff: remove the triangle background
-HYT has an X indicating it is an attack, but is a weapon buff (the other stuff, FAW, CSV TS, etc all have buff triangles even if they buff attacks): revert to old icon or change the x to a buff triangle
-CPD should have something that indicates it is a shield drain like Tachyon beam has
-GW, Tykens, tachyon and subnuc should have an arc indicator like weapons have
-pushes and pulls should have arrows showing the direction, GW should have arrows pointing in indicating they pull ships to the center while photonic shockwave and tractor beam repulsors should have arrows pointing out showing they push stuff away from the ship
-Tykens rift should indicate it is a power drain, the old icon did and energy siphon does.
-Maybe have GW and Tykens show they are both spatial anomalies (similar targeting rules and share cooldown): revert GW to old icon, change Tykens to have the swirl like GW (anomaly icon) and downward arrows like energy siphon (power drain indicator)
-Photonic shockwave might also indicate it has a short disable in addition to showing it has knockback, similarly CPD might have something indicating it has a disable (cloak disable)
-Aceton beam should indicate it has an arc
-As pretty as the tricorders are, I'd rather the function be the more noticeable thing on them (so the caduceus on medical and the resistance debudff icon tricorder scan uses should be at the forefront and the tricorder should be less noticeable)
-Transphasic bomb might be better thought of as a pet since I am pretty sure it is proximity detonated (even if normal usage is to use it right next to an enemy so it blows immediately)
The goal of this update is to make it much easier to understand the options available to every bridge officer and make training them more flexible.
If you really want to make Boffs more flexible, then you need to let us manage their traits like we do our captain traits.
That said, I do like the changes to the abilities, not having to retrain them every time I want to change an ability is going to be awesome, and the icon revamp looks pretty swank (and I say this as a person who generally HATES icon replacement).
I like new icons, at least most of them, but designer should remember few things:
1. Icons should be CONTRAST
2. NOT overwhelmed by details
3. Easily RECOGNISABLE in a mid-fight, even for players with some exotic screen size and resolutions.
And here some abilities whose icons i don't like:
Tactical-Space
Fire on my Mark, Go Down Fighting, Tactical Initiative - too detailed
Tactical-Ground
All Grenade abilities - they too similar
Engineering-Space
All "emergency powers to..." - looks too similar. If you have several of them, in a mid-fight you will need a bit more time, then to just point-and-click right one
Science-Space
Scattering Field - new icon makes it look more like offensive ability
Did not read through all of the previous comments to makes sure if this had already been asked, but are Romulan characters finally going to get the same icon for the science team abilities as kdf/feds?
Comments
If there was one icon I didn't like it's Emergency Power to Shields. I recognize the change was facilitated to maintain uniformity with other EP abilities but find it no longer gels as well with Reverse Shield Polarity or Rotate Shield Frequency which have not been changed. While neither is an emergency ability the alternate representation of the shield in the new icon is inconsistent with the unchanged icons.
...Only problem is, now I'll have to think before I hit EPtS. Though the new icon looks a lot better, that change wasn't really needed. Oh well.
Still, thanks for the effort to help make something in the game a little easier for the players. With all the stuff done to try to make just playing and having fun harder, it is nice to see someone making at least something in the game easier. Even if it is just graphics, it means a lot. Thanks.
Which brings me back to what I said earlier, "I didn't like the idea of you guys trying to fix something that isn't broke....AGAIN....when there are other things that need and/or deserve attention"
Not trying to take anything away from the art & design team members, overall great job! Seriously...no sarcasm here! You all consistently turn out fantastic work...That being said, couldn't this attention to detail been of greater service and more significant impact elsewhere?
I mean, I know a lot of us who play the game need to realize that just because something is a priority to us doesn't mean that it's instantly #1 on the dev's list. Dammit, Jim...after nearly 5 years I'm still waiting on the day that I can convert my first officer to a playable captain and vice versa. It's been my #1 game wish since I started playing. But I look at all of the other developments in the game since that idea had gotten pushed to the back burner and I see a game that has far exceeded my expectations in so many other ways that usually sit here silently playing and enjoying...only commenting when it comes to tribble tests...But now I've gotta ask...
Are there not other things that need and/or are better deserving of the time and attention?...Of greater service and more significant impact...than icon redesign?!?!? Seriously...icon redesign was not THAT serious...seriously!
...but that's just me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^ Well said. Sometimes simpler is better. i.e. the 4 new emergency power to X icons will all look very similar in-game whereas the old ones are easily discernible.
An icon isn't artwork, it's just an symbol that should be as simple as possible to read quickly at a glance, like traffic signage...
IMO its just a waste of time when there are more dire issues that need addressing. Like costumes that don't work ground and space. All the bugs from content thats like over 3 years old ppl still do or try too but is usually too buggy. My job application for cryptic is soon going to be a section of a wall that I threw buckets of paint at and see how quick I get hired.
I'm pretty new, so I'm not that well-versed in all of the abilities yet. I think icon borders can be put to good use by making it easier to group which abilities puts a global cooldown on other abilities. Creating a common border for all deflector abilities for example so that it is easier for new (and old) players to spot that clicking on these icons would put all other similar icons into cooldown for instance. Uniform borders would also create a sense of cohesion between icons, creating a sense of order and making them seem less random.
For ground abilities, icon borders can also differentiate between damage, buff, debuff and healing skills.
Just my 2 cents.
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Second, who ever redesigned the icons is forever in my heart.
I am one of those guys who is here since Perpetual did the concept art :rolleyes: And in all these years I never managed to recognize abilities like FAW, BO, CRF, CSV.. now I can.
I love Tyken's Rift and Gravity Well the most.
I know it is to late to bring in some wishes for the overhaul, but I personally would love to see the Captain-Ship-Bridge Officer columnn a bit reworked. Having small head icons left next to the names and/or to be able to sort the Boffs department specific. To have all Engineers in one spot, ....
That would make a comparison easier.
Let me guess, Tacofang's new wonderboy TomCat?
Yes, see HERE...
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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/runs away and hides...
As a player that mostly goes with science I will focus on those. Please excuse my PS skills, at best they are terrible.
Ground: [URL="[img]http://i.imgur.com/915qula.jpg[/img]"]
DF (a debuff to energy damage). To me that tells the player it is a field, the downward arrow indicates a debuff and the image of the phaser tells you what is being debuffed.
EGF (a debuff to movement). Again it shows as a field and the arrows going against the player would indicate being slowed
Medical Tricorder I think was fine as the original highlighted what the ability did, which is heal instead of focusing on it being a tricorder.
Neural Neutralizer could just be a question mark above the image instead of the dots to indicate confusion or placation.
Tachyon Harmonic (direct damage to shields) Could show a player's shield facing being damaged.
ahh that explains it i dont use arc and i havent played the game ina month. just coming here in hopes of seeing a change for the better.
boff icons may just benefit from a revamp as well.
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I think systems that share global cooldowns and/or are bonused by the same thing should have common elements. Tactical and engineering are mostly good, though FAW might use a triangle like the other beam skills for said commonality, and on the other hand you should lose the silhouette looking thing that most of the icons have.
Science is hurting in the improvement department, Tykens rift I think is worse since the downward arrows on the old versions tells you EXACTLY waht its effect does while the new one doesn't. To go with my first point, I think it would be nice if GW and Tykens shared element that you can tell at a glance both are spatial rifts, and other deflector abilities had something that represents the fact they only fire forward
Scientific Aptitude is a bit iffy, though. With the medical cross, a greenhorn might mistake it for a pure healing ability, rather than a boost.
My character Tsin'xing
Ah great thanks! That explains it quite a bit.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Here we are, repainting deck chairs and moving them around. We could be making some more profound moves, like actually giving me a color wheel for costume customizing... that works and matches. Instead we are fixing something truly never broken. How about some better hair styles? What about better aliens? When can I have a DOSI KDF Captain and BOFFS? Or more options for the horns and ears ? Or non-humanoid FED aliens (I know there were some in canon).
Thanks for that. Knowing the design language is helpful.
Given that knowledge I have a few further suggestions:
For stuff that is a combined heal/buff or attack/debuff, etc. I think multiple icons should be present.
Again things that do similar stuff should share design language. For example:
FAW should have the hollow triangle beam overload and target subsystems have
Scientific aptitude and Engineering proficiency need to indicate they are team buffs (they did before), so give them the same upward arrow on the left Strike team has.
Possibly have DoTs differentiated from instantaneous damage (some have a radiation symbol, but not all)
Specific nitpicks:
-FAW should have the empty triangle the other beam abilities have to indicate it is a beam ability.
-CSV icon indicates it's a cone AOE, that's true about the weapons fire themselves, but the ability itself is a buff: remove the triangle background
-HYT has an X indicating it is an attack, but is a weapon buff (the other stuff, FAW, CSV TS, etc all have buff triangles even if they buff attacks): revert to old icon or change the x to a buff triangle
-CPD should have something that indicates it is a shield drain like Tachyon beam has
-GW, Tykens, tachyon and subnuc should have an arc indicator like weapons have
-pushes and pulls should have arrows showing the direction, GW should have arrows pointing in indicating they pull ships to the center while photonic shockwave and tractor beam repulsors should have arrows pointing out showing they push stuff away from the ship
-Tykens rift should indicate it is a power drain, the old icon did and energy siphon does.
-Maybe have GW and Tykens show they are both spatial anomalies (similar targeting rules and share cooldown): revert GW to old icon, change Tykens to have the swirl like GW (anomaly icon) and downward arrows like energy siphon (power drain indicator)
-Photonic shockwave might also indicate it has a short disable in addition to showing it has knockback, similarly CPD might have something indicating it has a disable (cloak disable)
-Aceton beam should indicate it has an arc
-As pretty as the tricorders are, I'd rather the function be the more noticeable thing on them (so the caduceus on medical and the resistance debudff icon tricorder scan uses should be at the forefront and the tricorder should be less noticeable)
-Transphasic bomb might be better thought of as a pet since I am pretty sure it is proximity detonated (even if normal usage is to use it right next to an enemy so it blows immediately)
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If you really want to make Boffs more flexible, then you need to let us manage their traits like we do our captain traits.
That said, I do like the changes to the abilities, not having to retrain them every time I want to change an ability is going to be awesome, and the icon revamp looks pretty swank (and I say this as a person who generally HATES icon replacement).
1. Icons should be CONTRAST
2. NOT overwhelmed by details
3. Easily RECOGNISABLE in a mid-fight, even for players with some exotic screen size and resolutions.
And here some abilities whose icons i don't like:
Tactical-Space
Fire on my Mark, Go Down Fighting, Tactical Initiative - too detailed
Tactical-Ground
All Grenade abilities - they too similar
Engineering-Space
All "emergency powers to..." - looks too similar. If you have several of them, in a mid-fight you will need a bit more time, then to just point-and-click right one
Science-Space
Scattering Field - new icon makes it look more like offensive ability
Hope announced icons still subject to change