get a grip people. They are TRYING to help and most all they get in return is inane histrionics. People complain the devs don't listen..here is your chance to be constructive. I guess non stop whinging is preferable to actual cogent inputs. It's a wonder the PWE team bothers at all to try considering the tenor of the majority of posters.
This is not a chance for us to be 'constructive' with our feedback and opinions. This is cryptic asking for a list of missions we don't waste our time with anymore because the rewards suck and our full time jobs are not playing STO and grinding xp.
Queue Name: (Which PvE event?)
Not asking for constructive feedback Level Type: (Normal, Advanced, Elite?)
Not asking for constructive feedback Average Wait Currently: (How long aprox do you wait now?)
Not asking for constructive feedback Average Wait Previously: (How long aprox did you used to wait?)
Not asking for constructive feedback
There is no question of "why do you think people don't play this?" or "what would make this more enticing to the playerbase." They want numbers that for some very strange reason they can't get on their own.
So, does the existence of this thread signify that Cryptic's metrics can't distinguish between players playing from the PvE queue vs players playing from a private premade room or something like that? Because honestly people do still play things like Hive and Mine Trap post-DR (I've done HGE multiple times), but they've all moved to channels like PESTF because it's either impossible to get a PUG group via the PvE queue interface, or PUGs fail too often which is another thing that forces people to do premades.
Take Starbase Fleet Defense as an example. (all examples below are Fed; KDF-specific queues have loooong had issues with popping, requiring premades to get anything done)
Current wait time? ∞
Previous wait time? 5-15 minutes
This used to pop several times per hour from the PvE queue but now I never see more than 3 people waiting in the queue. The only way you can play this post-DR is if someone in a global chat channel makes a concerted effort to get a premade team going.
or Gorn Minefield
Current wait time: 20 to ∞ minutes
Previous: 0 to 6 minutes
Starbase 24
Current wait time: ∞. Nobody plays this anymore.
Previous: Instant. People would play this back to back as fast as they could.
Colony Invasion
Current: 15 to ∞ minutes
Previous: 0 to 5 minutes
And the list goes on and on. I've essentially given up on PUGging almost everything except for FFA and BHE. Anything else and I'll only do a premade for it.
[EDIT] say that ten people see this topic and queue for a variety of missions as suggested. BAM. Little waiting time. Fabricated and unrealistic results, too. Another thing to make this topic further useless.
This is true. The mere existence of this topic causes more people to queue up in order to test the queue wait times, thus skewing the results by causing queues to pop. (Although who knows what degree of influence this causes; i.e. how many people read this topic and then go test at the same time as each other?)
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Wow, I feel bad for Smirk. Getting the order to put this poll out... it's begging to be trolled.
Between the 10 and 20k channels, my fleet and interfleet chat, private queues are the only reliable ways to run advanced content. PUGs tend to fail. And even just filling a private advanced run in my fleet is hard. Only a few of our whale/grindy members really participate. The rest, crickets when you ask to 'x' up.
Reduced rewards, auto fail "optionals", feeling less powerful at level 60 than we were at 50... the list could go for pages. Who could blame casuals for not queuing up.
And yes, your format should be which ones queue quickly, as that would give you less content to read through. Pretty much what others have said have been my experience queuing up too.
So, does the existence of this thread signify that Cryptic's metrics can't distinguish between players playing from the PvE queue vs players playing from a private premade room or something like that?
Probably. AFAIK there's no difference after the mission starts. It's possible that the metrics simply capture the number of times a day the mission gets played.
Well, my guess is the more populated queues will get a NERF.
And i have to agree: everyone who joins the queues now to test how long they need to pop will just distort the results. Besides the fact that cryptic already has the numbers. I think some dev already said something like the queues are not empty. Perhaps OP could just ask him?
Edit:
Don't remember the name right now .. the one with the big ego who likes to talk - a lot.
I think they already have the data but my logic says they want to know the player perception about queue times.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
get a grip people. They are TRYING to help and most all they get in return is inane histrionics. People complain the devs don't listen..here is your chance to be constructive. I guess non stop whinging is preferable to actual cogent inputs. It's a wonder the PWE team bothers at all to try considering the tenor of the majority of posters.
This is not a chance for us to be 'constructive' with our feedback and opinions. This is cryptic asking for a list of missions we don't waste our time with anymore because the rewards suck and our full time jobs are not playing STO and grinding xp.
There is no question of "why do you think people don't play this?" or "what would make this more enticing to the playerbase." They want numbers that for some very strange reason they can't get on their own.
With the information they are gathering i'm guessing that they only plan on adjusting rewards here and there. If they were to ask us why we dont like instance X anymore that might mean that they plan on changing fight mechanics, npc abilities or difficulty. But they didnt ask us that, so i dont think thats what they are changing. With adjusted rewards we will still have to deal with the same reasons that made us not want to do the instance before...but at least now we get more out of it. WoW did something like this during MoP with the Heroic Shado Pan Monastery dungeon. People were immediately leaving the group when the LFG tool randomly put them in that instance. Relative to the other heroic dungeons Shado Pan took a bit longer to complete. As a result Blizzard increased the rewards for that specific dungeon as well as 1 or 2 other dungeons that people were leaving.
As far as all the other QQ going on in this thread. I would hope that the devs are only using this survey as one of the sources of information rather than the only source of information to make their adjustments. I'm sure they are...or rather i hope that they are looking at their own metrics, or that they are also reviewing the LFG queue display tool on their own. Or that they are doing their own internal research and then comparing all the data they have pulled (which would include this survey) and comparing everything so that they have the big picture. If all they are going off of is the information from this thread...well i dont even know what to say about that.
Literally all queues except Crystalline Catastrophe Advanced and Bug Hunt Elite which are the only mission that do not have a greater than 5 minute. While splitting each mission into three different difficulties was a good idea, it didn't pan out as it splits the player base too much.
I have to agree with most people on this thread, its not identifying which levels lack players, its understanding why they aren't playing.
Queue Name: All Pug Queues both FED and KDF Level Type: All levels: Normal, Advanced and Elite Average Wait Currently: Most are now 5 minutes plus Average Wait Previously: 1 to 2 minutes
Take these reasons seriously as this is what the player base is experiencing and all need to be addressed.
Reasons why no one is playing pug/queues:
1. For many people the difficultly change is significant. Casual players are having a difficult time playing even normal now.
2. Rewards are not good enough for 95% of the queues. There are missions that take less time and reward better. Literally no point doing other missions and that's showing. If a mission takes 15-20minutes, it should be rewarding 15-20minutes worth of stuff not equal or in many cases less than a queue that takes 2 to 5 minutes.
3. DPS channel players and experienced players need Elite level content. Most missions don't have Elite level difficulty yet, 2 months after the launch of Delta Rising.
4. Too many bugs in the Delta Rising queues. VCE has an automatic fail optional still with anomaly. ISA has spheres bug, shield bug, gateway bug. Refer to bug forum threads. Most of these are months+ reported issues!
5. Player experience, level, acquired skills, specializations and traits make a substantial difference in overall gameplay in Delta Rising and with the recent change to level up taking longer, people aren't very happy with the excessive grind required to actually play Elite queues now. Many of the high end weapons, traits and doffs needed for Elite content are out of reach for the majority of the casual player base.
6. Optionals are being failed too often in Pugs which penalizes players too much by locking them out of the mission for an hour. Experienced players are only forming private groups now.
7. Upgrading equipment requires players to play Advanced or Elite content to get required VR materials and raw dilithium but they can't complete them without upgrading. Catch 22.
8. Many of the queues are literally for grinding and the player base has done these hundreds of times. Advanced and Elite mode need to remove time gated intro starts, cutscenes and dialog boxes that force stop a player. Only the normal mode should have these 'tutorial' dialogs.
9. Energy Credit nerf from a few months ago reduces the number of players doing queues to obtain equipment to make EC. If you are concerned about crafting items to sell to make ec, keep crafted items the same EC to sell and return dropped items to their original EC.
10. Queues aren't giving their proper Skill points. Doing an Elite level should not be rewarding 1000-1500 skill points as they are now. Needs to be 17x that for Elite. Players are having a hard time getting enough Skill points now to level up in a reasonable amount of time. Went from way too fast with people doing Tal Dewa at launch to way too slow with the recent 'math increase skill points required per level' change. That annoys the entire player community either way.
11. Many players used ALT's to play queues. Takes too long to level ALT's up now. Need a way to help level ALT's up like the sponsor token from reputation.
12. Most fleets are maxed out. No need to do queues that only give out Fleet Marks. Fleet project that only give 50% credit return is insulting as players worked hard to get to Tier 5 base and to get the marks.
13. Switching between Ground and Space queues is very annoying. Retraiting every time takes too long. Need to have separate Ground and Space Personal Trait slots as well as Trait loadouts.
14. Queue Burnout from Mirror Invasion event. For the second year in a row, right after the Mirror Invasion event has completed, there has been a noticeable decrease in the number of players queuing after the event has completed. Players get way too burnt out playing that event.
15. Queues take too long. No Win Scenario Elite can take the most experienced players in the game 30-40 minutes to complete for literally almost the same reward as playing on Normal which only takes 7-8 minutes. Can do Normal 5 times in the same time period for 5 times the reward as Elite.
16. Bring back Hourly Bonuses. Daily player bonuses gave people a reason to get into queues. Bonuses biweekly is lowering player turnout.
I'm sorry but lol at this thread trying to pass empty queues off as a "bug"or "issue" other than "no one wants to play them due to reduced rewards and other 'tweaks.'" It's no secret that the game is hemorrhaging players so just fess up and admit it rather than pretend differently.
I think deep in our hearts (or maybe not so deep, really) we all realize they're never coming out, saying "No one wants to play the queues any more!" But, honestly, they don't need to, far as I'm concerned, as long as they just acknowledge their own metrics (kinda silly we have to provide those for them, as if they don't know themselves: when we went 17x faster than elsewhere, they suddenly had detailed logs). And then just halt the exodus, one way or the other.
At least what this survey does, is acknowledge the empty queues.
There's a limit to how we can type in a single response. Basically I've given up using the queues, and focusing on building teams in the chat channels form the player left in the game.
I recently joined the 10,000K-dps channel, and found a decent selection of players to make queues. Advanced and Elite queues are only achievable with regular players. Casual players need not apply.
The only queue I use:
- Crystalline Catastrophe, Advanced
Everything else is dead most times of the day and night.
Don't you have metrics on on the games usage? Asking the players seems hollow.
Please report here which queues you are not able to queue up for due to lack of other members joining your PUG.
Please include only the queues that are not popping within a reasonable amount of time, please do not include any queues that are functioning normally or only take 1-2 minutes to pop.
Queue Name: (Which PvE event?)
Level Type: (Normal, Advanced, Elite?)
Average Wait Currently: (How long aprox do you wait now?)
Average Wait Previously: (How long aprox did you used to wait?)
Thanks everyone! ~CaptainSmirk
Hi Smirk, My play time is mostly pugging. As said elsewhere in this thread, it is INDEED easier to list the pve missions that do fill in a reasonable amount of time, say 5mins or less.
Since Ground elite is MEGA EASIER than elite space, Bug Hunt fills pretty quickly, I do also play the other ground elites (save Hive which never has a soul in it)but wait times can vary.
Let me put my 2 cents as bluntly as possible. People don't like their time wasted-failed optional-and people want to work up specializations-stf's offer no xp rewards.
The public queue has been decimated because no one likes 10 marks and a boot in the rear, and the rewards suck big time.
Space queues, the only one that works is CE. The rest can be intentionally blown by anyone with the desire to fly right instead of left within Infected Conduit Advance. It happens all the time, in both space and ground. 10 marks and a boot in the rear because someone at Cryptic decided to make a failure feature without thinking it through.
Normal, you say? Fail proof, sure. A complete waste of time, most certainly!
My suggestion, take Advanced, and toss it in the garbage. Too many queues. Take the fail sauce thingy and toss that in the garbage too. PvE will never, NEVER, be a challenge. Take all those challenge seekers, and we number a lot, and make a real PVP system.
There are no players in the qs. If you look at the instances there are no players in the instances. Before DR there were at lease 30-50 in Infected and at least 10 qs were active. Now there are almost no active Qs and it takes 3-5 mins to start even the most popular are taking forever to lead up. You broke DR with all the changes the only fix is an about face, turn around and walk back to the day before DR when we were excited about the expansion. Then re-balance the difficulties and increase the dilithium payouts back to original.
Its not rocket science people!
It takes a bigger person to admit MISTAKES!
Are there any people left in Cryptic or Perfect World?
The numbers speak for themselves! If you dont want the $$$ then I guess you don't want any profits!
Makes no sense not to give the players who spend the $$$ the content they want in the way we deserve it!
you can bet your soul that the results of this will not be used to prop up dead ques, but to eliminate those ques. :eek: Massive reduction in content inc.
But if your actually serious about propping up the ques, you need to give players a reason to play them.
1. If players were actually able to use the ques as a source of leveling, "spec points" then well they might be playing them instead of soloing patrols and doffing, not that those are good sources, but at least you can't get nothing from them from not meeting the mandatory optional.
2. Optional should be optional, people will play the ques again if you do this.
3. Dill, not a issue for me, 1440 dill for a elite is plenty.
4. make the vr material for all ques random, instead of just one type, there is a reason everyone is in Crystal Entity...it the only reliable way to get Radiogenic.
Starbase fleet defense was always a favorite for those that needed marks, this stf could of been a great way to level and get marks but with a massive hulls the ships have now, whats the point in even playing stfs.
I mean really did you guys just pick out some jerk with 100k dps in a stf and balance the whole game around that one person, instead of most of your players?
you can bet your soul that the results of this will not be used not to prop up dead ques, but to eliminate those ques. :eek: Massive reduction in content inc.
There ARE queues that people didn't much bother with before Delta Rising. I'm not saying they should be eliminated though, because there are plenty of areas in the game that are totally deserted but they're still there.
When was the last time you were on Andoria?
As I said before, the answer to the STF issue is simple.
you can bet your soul that the results of this will not be used not to prop up dead ques, but to eliminate those ques. :eek: Massive reduction in content inc.
Dead queues = dead game. Not even Cryptic would be that daft.
What is, however, required, is for a certain Lead Dev's ego to be swallowed, and admit that all his pointless (pun intended) XP nerfing was rather vexatious, and did far more harm than good. And then to undo all those nerfs. And then pray the people will return.
you can bet your soul that the results of this will not be used not to prop up dead ques, but to eliminate those ques. :eek: Massive reduction in content inc.
Well ... if that's the case ... it's going to be the final straw for me ... please Cryptic don't **** my feedback, and do something worthwhile for a change ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
It would be easier to just name those which pop. Which would be Kithomer space, Infected Space, Crystalline Catastrophe. Azure nebula advanced also pops, but takes longer than the other three.
All other pop...very rarely.
Smirk - I am perplexed why you need US to tell YOU guys this, particularly when the information is there for ALL to see...
You will find that the majority of the slow maps are ground maps. Aside from the fact that people prefer space pew-pew more than ground, ground maps pay for TRIBBLE in both XP per kill and in loot. (I find it odd that the value of ground items and space items were *normalized* yet the XP payout wasn't....)
Anyhow:
Queue Name: Breaking The Planet Level Type: n/a Average Wait Currently: Near impossible, NEVER for KDF Average Wait Previously: Still took a bit to pop, but not weeks. There are simply ques that payout better now.
Breaking the Planet is a fun mission, particularly on the KDF-side. The problem is the pop-threshold is too damn high ESPECIALLY on the KDF side where they have a smaller playerbase by default.
Suggestions:
- Reduce the minimum amount of players required to start. At this point, 5 people should be enough.
- Give a choice of marks in addition to the regular current rewards. Fleet marks at bare minimum.
- Make a hybrid version that is cross-faction. Keep the Klingons as the baddies if you wish, but if you make it cross-faction it will pop MUCH more often.
Queue Name: Big Dig/Romulan Temple Level Type: n/a Average Wait Currently: Hours Average Wait Previously:20-30 minutes
This map is also a fun map to play but it suffers from the same issues BtP does: a ridiculously high player threshold to start.
Suggestions:
- Reduce the minimum start threshold: right now its around 15. It should be 5-10. - Make the threshold when people can join one in-progress longer: Since it is made for up to 20 people, these types of maps should keep the door open for longer periods of time for people to wander into. It will certainly keep people in the game longer. - Increase the ending rewards: Currently we need a daily to get anything worth a TRIBBLE out of it. Why not just make the daily augment the current rewards and add Romulan marks? I mean, it's a friggin Romulan map, ffs!!!!
Queue Name: Mine Trap Level Type: All Average Wait Currently: Never pops, exept on Bonus Mark days Average Wait Previously: 10-20 minutes.
Again, another situation where it requires too many people to start. To a point, this likely can't be avoided with this map, but if you MUST keep the 15-20 que pop threshold here, the payout MUST be strong to properly incentivise this map. In addition, this map is particularly long and has parts that annoy players (Salt Zombies Alphas are annoying as TRIBBLE...)In any case, keep in mind this map was more popular where there were fewer reps and not may good or fun ways to get Romulan marks. Suggestions:
- Slightly reduce the threshold to pop. But only a little.
- Reduce the time this map takes up.
- If you can't reduce the time the map takes, increase the payout in both Dil and marks. Larger maps that require MORE people should ALWAYS PAY THE HIGHEST!
- Give choice of marks to incentivise
Queue Name: Nukara Prime: Self Destruct Level Type: All Average Wait Currently: Never pops.
Average Wait Previously: Bad
This map simply has too many moving parts and is too easy to fail. It's ridden with debuffs and turns a potentially fun and frenetic map into a grueling slugfest. It *could* be something fun like Bug Hunt, but no.
Suggestions:
I don't know. It's too easy for people to TRIBBLE it up. Reduce the failure conditions for starters.
Queue Name: Colony Invasion Level Type: N/a (only one difficulty setting) Average Wait Currently: 10-20 minutes. Much longer KDF-side Average Wait Previously: 1-2 minutes.
Colony Invasion is one of those almost PERFECT ground maps where the pacing is excellent and the map is just a lot of fun. However, it now needs an elite version. With new maps out now and with a seeming push to reduce sources of XP, people are eschewing this mission simply because it doesn't give them jack for XP, being a ground mission and all.
Suggestions:
- Colony Invasion needs more types of baddies: It's been here for what, 2 years now and we're STILL (!) limited to Undine, Hirogen, Klingons, Breen and Jem Hadar for Fed and the same but swap Fed for KDF. Where are the Borg? Voth? Mirror Fed? Random alien group?
- Like other maps, it offers poor rewards for the current version of the game. It needs a reward buff.
That's all for now, I may add more later.
In the end though, all of this is a metaphorical circlejerk: As long as people feel that the effort doesn't match the rewards, they wan't play the mission. ESPECIALLY now that DR is putting our thumbs to the screws in every way possible (XP, Dil, etc)
I stopped pugging/playing prvately ALL of the Ques Post-DR for these reasons:
1) The rewards no longer match the effort required.
2) Some person whom I'd really like to call a very nasty name decided Optionals ought to be changed to Mandatorys.
3) The same person decided the cheapest way to make the AI more challenging was to add "one million HPs!" (And I can picture him doing the Dr. Evil pinky finger thing while saying this) to each of the NPC's.
4) Most important one. The Ques are no longer fun. Why? See the above.
Do whatever you want with them, I no longer care. And Smirk, if I were you, I'd be updating my resume. I'd also be looking hard for a job. No future in being a heat shield for a bunch of people who are waay smarter than their customers. Don't believe they're smarter? Well then, go ask them, they'll tell you.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
In my experience these Queues DO NOT take long to start;
Infected - Conduit ADV - Space
Crystalline Catastrophe ADV - Space
The Cure ADV - Space
Bug Hunt Elite - Ground
Nukara Transdimentionl Elite - Ground
Nukara Infiltration Elite - Ground
Fleet Alert - Normal - Space
Khitomer ADV - Ground
*Less then 5mins for the above to start up;
(some are overexaggerating if they say any of these will not "pop")
But here is one that may never start again, and its such a SHAME (This one has me literally depressed);
MINE TRAP
Mine Trap - Ground --- 20 Man Queue will never fill for this amazing mission.
My fleet and I LOVE Mine Trap, but we can never play it anymore, as it never fills up.
Please do something for MINE TRAP - Some ideas we had in our fleet;
Make it a 5 man queue (you only need to fight in one quadrant)
Make an ADV and Elite Queue
***OR MAKE AN EVENT THAT REVOLVES AROUND MINE TRAP -- LIKE MIRROR INVASION***
(sorry for caps - it's just that I miss this mission so much)
Thank you for considering my entry.
Please note I'm being as unbiased/honest as possible with my entries.
I play everyday for several hours.
Regards
get a grip people. They are TRYING to help and most all they get in return is inane histrionics. People complain the devs don't listen..here is your chance to be constructive. I guess non stop whinging is preferable to actual cogent inputs. It's a wonder the PWE team bothers at all to try considering the tenor of the majority of posters.
Except that Cryptic is not trying to help. They can't even see how useless this topic is.
1) Most of the answers they're looking for are a few clicks away ingame.
2) They can gauge such metrics themselves in a more controlled environment, using only a couple of people in different time ranges.
3) They don't realize that many players testing this will end up in fabricated, unrealistic results. To which begs the question: are they trying to artificially inflate the queues just to make them *seem* used? Of course I'm being malicious here, but I can no longer give Cryptic the benefit of doubt.
4) This kind of testing is tedious and stressful. It doesn't give players anything (if anything, they might lose things in the future, considering how Cryptic has been working lately). It only serves to waste time and energy of players. I feel bad for the ones that are testing this thinking it will be useful to them. It won't.
Cryptic needs to approach this differently. Instead of asking players to do their work, they should, first of all, implement queue metrics, if they're not implemented already. (And if they are, this topic is no longer useless and is now a big troll from the devs). Then, let the metrics speak for themselves. No fabricated results, no stressed out players, and the devs will all the data they want.
Please report here which queues you are not able to queue up for due to lack of other members joining your PUG.
Please include only the queues that are not popping within a reasonable amount of time, please do not include any queues that are functioning normally or only take 1-2 minutes to pop.
Queue Name: (Which PvE event?)
Level Type: (Normal, Advanced, Elite?)
Average Wait Currently: (How long aprox do you wait now?)
Average Wait Previously: (How long aprox did you used to wait?)
Thanks everyone! ~CaptainSmirk
Hailing all Cryptic Employees!
Having complaints with PvE queues?
Please actually play the game. Take a few hours, pick a meeting and cancel it. Have everyone instead log into the live server and play in the queues.
Please take the time to setup a few characters at various points in endgame gear/specialization/cash shop advancement. Have each employee fill out a survey. please do not allow anyone to enable godmode.
Can anybody find me queue to play? Each morning I get up I die a little. Can barely log in and play. Take a look in the mirror and cry. Cryptic what you're doing to me. I have spent all my years in believing you, but I just can't get no relief, Cryptic!
Somebody, somebody, can anybody find me queue to play?
I work hard every day of my life, I work till I ache my bones. At the end I take home my hard earned pay all on my own - I get down on my laptop
and I start to play. Till the tears run down from my eyes. Cryptic - somebody - somebody, can anybody find me - a queue to play?
Everyday - I try and I try and I try - But all those bugs wants to put me down. They say I'm goin' crazy. They say I got a lot of reporting errors in my queuelist. Got no common sense, I got nobody left to believe. Yeah - yeah yeah yeah..
Oh Cryptic, Somebody - somebody, can anybody find me a queue to play?
Got no pop, I got no rewards, I just keep losing my beat. I'm ok, I'm alright. Ain't gonna face no defeat. I just gotta get out of this queue of hell. Someday I'm gonna be free, Cryptic!
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
I have to agree that this is a waste of time. Anyone that has logged into the game knows there are very few queues that pop frequently. Crystalline advanced, infected space, khitomer space, cure space (though this one is unpuggable).
It's not like the forum community hasn't given you the answers. Increase rewards, especially xp, remove the fail conditions. The thing that's most upsetting is that some of those fail conditions are bugged and still not fixed (looking at you viscous cycle anomaly). The only thing the fail conditions have done is increase frustration, I don't play your game to be frustrated. So I don't pug anything but crystalline.
Fewer rewards and increased difficulty = empty queues.
If you want ideas on how to fix this mess that might be more productive than this poll. As others said just log on yourself. I am not trying to be a jerk, but it's pretty obvious which queues pop if you just log in.
Please report here which queues you are not able to queue up for due to lack of other members joining your PUG.
Please include only the queues that are not popping within a reasonable amount of time, please do not include any queues that are functioning normally or only take 1-2 minutes to pop.
Queue Name: (Which PvE event?)
Level Type: (Normal, Advanced, Elite?)
Average Wait Currently: (How long aprox do you wait now?)
Average Wait Previously: (How long aprox did you used to wait?)
Thanks everyone! ~CaptainSmirk
The reason Qs arnt popping is because of the strong arm tactic's you use to force players to play the content you want us to play by maxing the rewards in those few Qs
Dyson ground still the best dilithium reward
Argula the best xp award 8000 xp verses 2000 for all other content
The old fun STFs gutted with puny rewards and massive Fail condititions
Gating level 60 players content from level 50s
What you need to do is make the rewards even across the board make the rewards players choice across the board...Then pay attention to what is really popular content so you know what isn't fun and can improve that content
Drop the Fail condititions ..............Its Failing
Using your strong arm tactics an virtural blackmail to force us players to play the content you want us play for your own reasons is a HUGE problem you are bringing on yourselves
2000 xp to do a long hard infected advanced verses a super east argula patrol normal giving me 8000 xp is a prime example
infected advanced should give at least 8000 xp actually its longer and required 4 other players so it should be 12000 xp
That's why the Qs arnt popping
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
This is not a chance for us to be 'constructive' with our feedback and opinions. This is cryptic asking for a list of missions we don't waste our time with anymore because the rewards suck and our full time jobs are not playing STO and grinding xp.
Queue Name: (Which PvE event?)
Not asking for constructive feedback
Level Type: (Normal, Advanced, Elite?)
Not asking for constructive feedback
Average Wait Currently: (How long aprox do you wait now?)
Not asking for constructive feedback
Average Wait Previously: (How long aprox did you used to wait?)
Not asking for constructive feedback
There is no question of "why do you think people don't play this?" or "what would make this more enticing to the playerbase." They want numbers that for some very strange reason they can't get on their own.
Take Starbase Fleet Defense as an example. (all examples below are Fed; KDF-specific queues have loooong had issues with popping, requiring premades to get anything done)
Current wait time? ∞
Previous wait time? 5-15 minutes
This used to pop several times per hour from the PvE queue but now I never see more than 3 people waiting in the queue. The only way you can play this post-DR is if someone in a global chat channel makes a concerted effort to get a premade team going.
or Gorn Minefield
Current wait time: 20 to ∞ minutes
Previous: 0 to 6 minutes
Starbase 24
Current wait time: ∞. Nobody plays this anymore.
Previous: Instant. People would play this back to back as fast as they could.
Colony Invasion
Current: 15 to ∞ minutes
Previous: 0 to 5 minutes
Federation Fleet Alert
Current: 10+ minutes
Previous: 0 to 5 minutes
And the list goes on and on. I've essentially given up on PUGging almost everything except for FFA and BHE. Anything else and I'll only do a premade for it.
This is true. The mere existence of this topic causes more people to queue up in order to test the queue wait times, thus skewing the results by causing queues to pop. (Although who knows what degree of influence this causes; i.e. how many people read this topic and then go test at the same time as each other?)
Joined January 2009
Between the 10 and 20k channels, my fleet and interfleet chat, private queues are the only reliable ways to run advanced content. PUGs tend to fail. And even just filling a private advanced run in my fleet is hard. Only a few of our whale/grindy members really participate. The rest, crickets when you ask to 'x' up.
Reduced rewards, auto fail "optionals", feeling less powerful at level 60 than we were at 50... the list could go for pages. Who could blame casuals for not queuing up.
And yes, your format should be which ones queue quickly, as that would give you less content to read through. Pretty much what others have said have been my experience queuing up too.
My character Tsin'xing
Crystalline entity
Sometimes Khitomer space
Infected Space
Bug hunt
Borg disconnected (Normal)
Sometimes Azure nebula rescue
I think they already have the data but my logic says they want to know the player perception about queue times.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
With the information they are gathering i'm guessing that they only plan on adjusting rewards here and there. If they were to ask us why we dont like instance X anymore that might mean that they plan on changing fight mechanics, npc abilities or difficulty. But they didnt ask us that, so i dont think thats what they are changing. With adjusted rewards we will still have to deal with the same reasons that made us not want to do the instance before...but at least now we get more out of it. WoW did something like this during MoP with the Heroic Shado Pan Monastery dungeon. People were immediately leaving the group when the LFG tool randomly put them in that instance. Relative to the other heroic dungeons Shado Pan took a bit longer to complete. As a result Blizzard increased the rewards for that specific dungeon as well as 1 or 2 other dungeons that people were leaving.
As far as all the other QQ going on in this thread. I would hope that the devs are only using this survey as one of the sources of information rather than the only source of information to make their adjustments. I'm sure they are...or rather i hope that they are looking at their own metrics, or that they are also reviewing the LFG queue display tool on their own. Or that they are doing their own internal research and then comparing all the data they have pulled (which would include this survey) and comparing everything so that they have the big picture. If all they are going off of is the information from this thread...well i dont even know what to say about that.
I have to agree with most people on this thread, its not identifying which levels lack players, its understanding why they aren't playing.
Queue Name: All Pug Queues both FED and KDF
Level Type: All levels: Normal, Advanced and Elite
Average Wait Currently: Most are now 5 minutes plus
Average Wait Previously: 1 to 2 minutes
Take these reasons seriously as this is what the player base is experiencing and all need to be addressed.
Reasons why no one is playing pug/queues:
1. For many people the difficultly change is significant. Casual players are having a difficult time playing even normal now.
2. Rewards are not good enough for 95% of the queues. There are missions that take less time and reward better. Literally no point doing other missions and that's showing. If a mission takes 15-20minutes, it should be rewarding 15-20minutes worth of stuff not equal or in many cases less than a queue that takes 2 to 5 minutes.
3. DPS channel players and experienced players need Elite level content. Most missions don't have Elite level difficulty yet, 2 months after the launch of Delta Rising.
4. Too many bugs in the Delta Rising queues. VCE has an automatic fail optional still with anomaly. ISA has spheres bug, shield bug, gateway bug. Refer to bug forum threads. Most of these are months+ reported issues!
5. Player experience, level, acquired skills, specializations and traits make a substantial difference in overall gameplay in Delta Rising and with the recent change to level up taking longer, people aren't very happy with the excessive grind required to actually play Elite queues now. Many of the high end weapons, traits and doffs needed for Elite content are out of reach for the majority of the casual player base.
6. Optionals are being failed too often in Pugs which penalizes players too much by locking them out of the mission for an hour. Experienced players are only forming private groups now.
7. Upgrading equipment requires players to play Advanced or Elite content to get required VR materials and raw dilithium but they can't complete them without upgrading. Catch 22.
8. Many of the queues are literally for grinding and the player base has done these hundreds of times. Advanced and Elite mode need to remove time gated intro starts, cutscenes and dialog boxes that force stop a player. Only the normal mode should have these 'tutorial' dialogs.
9. Energy Credit nerf from a few months ago reduces the number of players doing queues to obtain equipment to make EC. If you are concerned about crafting items to sell to make ec, keep crafted items the same EC to sell and return dropped items to their original EC.
10. Queues aren't giving their proper Skill points. Doing an Elite level should not be rewarding 1000-1500 skill points as they are now. Needs to be 17x that for Elite. Players are having a hard time getting enough Skill points now to level up in a reasonable amount of time. Went from way too fast with people doing Tal Dewa at launch to way too slow with the recent 'math increase skill points required per level' change. That annoys the entire player community either way.
11. Many players used ALT's to play queues. Takes too long to level ALT's up now. Need a way to help level ALT's up like the sponsor token from reputation.
12. Most fleets are maxed out. No need to do queues that only give out Fleet Marks. Fleet project that only give 50% credit return is insulting as players worked hard to get to Tier 5 base and to get the marks.
13. Switching between Ground and Space queues is very annoying. Retraiting every time takes too long. Need to have separate Ground and Space Personal Trait slots as well as Trait loadouts.
14. Queue Burnout from Mirror Invasion event. For the second year in a row, right after the Mirror Invasion event has completed, there has been a noticeable decrease in the number of players queuing after the event has completed. Players get way too burnt out playing that event.
15. Queues take too long. No Win Scenario Elite can take the most experienced players in the game 30-40 minutes to complete for literally almost the same reward as playing on Normal which only takes 7-8 minutes. Can do Normal 5 times in the same time period for 5 times the reward as Elite.
16. Bring back Hourly Bonuses. Daily player bonuses gave people a reason to get into queues. Bonuses biweekly is lowering player turnout.
I think deep in our hearts (or maybe not so deep, really) we all realize they're never coming out, saying "No one wants to play the queues any more!" But, honestly, they don't need to, far as I'm concerned, as long as they just acknowledge their own metrics (kinda silly we have to provide those for them, as if they don't know themselves: when we went 17x faster than elsewhere, they suddenly had detailed logs). And then just halt the exodus, one way or the other.
At least what this survey does, is acknowledge the empty queues.
And of course the event ones.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
There's a limit to how we can type in a single response. Basically I've given up using the queues, and focusing on building teams in the chat channels form the player left in the game.
I recently joined the 10,000K-dps channel, and found a decent selection of players to make queues. Advanced and Elite queues are only achievable with regular players. Casual players need not apply.
The only queue I use:
- Crystalline Catastrophe, Advanced
Everything else is dead most times of the day and night.
Don't you have metrics on on the games usage? Asking the players seems hollow.
Hi Smirk, My play time is mostly pugging. As said elsewhere in this thread, it is INDEED easier to list the pve missions that do fill in a reasonable amount of time, say 5mins or less.
Since Ground elite is MEGA EASIER than elite space, Bug Hunt fills pretty quickly, I do also play the other ground elites (save Hive which never has a soul in it)but wait times can vary.
Let me put my 2 cents as bluntly as possible. People don't like their time wasted-failed optional-and people want to work up specializations-stf's offer no xp rewards.
The public queue has been decimated because no one likes 10 marks and a boot in the rear, and the rewards suck big time.
Space queues, the only one that works is CE. The rest can be intentionally blown by anyone with the desire to fly right instead of left within Infected Conduit Advance. It happens all the time, in both space and ground. 10 marks and a boot in the rear because someone at Cryptic decided to make a failure feature without thinking it through.
Normal, you say? Fail proof, sure. A complete waste of time, most certainly!
My suggestion, take Advanced, and toss it in the garbage. Too many queues. Take the fail sauce thingy and toss that in the garbage too. PvE will never, NEVER, be a challenge. Take all those challenge seekers, and we number a lot, and make a real PVP system.
Brody
Seriously though, the problem with these queues would be solved just by adjusting the reward tables.
It would probably take all of 5 minutes.
Free Tibet!
There are no players in the qs. If you look at the instances there are no players in the instances. Before DR there were at lease 30-50 in Infected and at least 10 qs were active. Now there are almost no active Qs and it takes 3-5 mins to start even the most popular are taking forever to lead up. You broke DR with all the changes the only fix is an about face, turn around and walk back to the day before DR when we were excited about the expansion. Then re-balance the difficulties and increase the dilithium payouts back to original.
Its not rocket science people!
It takes a bigger person to admit MISTAKES!
Are there any people left in Cryptic or Perfect World?
The numbers speak for themselves! If you dont want the $$$ then I guess you don't want any profits!
Makes no sense not to give the players who spend the $$$ the content they want in the way we deserve it!
But if your actually serious about propping up the ques, you need to give players a reason to play them.
1. If players were actually able to use the ques as a source of leveling, "spec points" then well they might be playing them instead of soloing patrols and doffing, not that those are good sources, but at least you can't get nothing from them from not meeting the mandatory optional.
2. Optional should be optional, people will play the ques again if you do this.
3. Dill, not a issue for me, 1440 dill for a elite is plenty.
4. make the vr material for all ques random, instead of just one type, there is a reason everyone is in Crystal Entity...it the only reliable way to get Radiogenic.
Starbase fleet defense was always a favorite for those that needed marks, this stf could of been a great way to level and get marks but with a massive hulls the ships have now, whats the point in even playing stfs.
I mean really did you guys just pick out some jerk with 100k dps in a stf and balance the whole game around that one person, instead of most of your players?
There ARE queues that people didn't much bother with before Delta Rising. I'm not saying they should be eliminated though, because there are plenty of areas in the game that are totally deserted but they're still there.
When was the last time you were on Andoria?
As I said before, the answer to the STF issue is simple.
REWARDS.
Free Tibet!
Dead queues = dead game. Not even Cryptic would be that daft.
What is, however, required, is for a certain Lead Dev's ego to be swallowed, and admit that all his pointless (pun intended) XP nerfing was rather vexatious, and did far more harm than good. And then to undo all those nerfs. And then pray the people will return.
Well ... if that's the case ... it's going to be the final straw for me ... please Cryptic don't **** my feedback, and do something worthwhile for a change ...
Smirk - I am perplexed why you need US to tell YOU guys this, particularly when the information is there for ALL to see...
You will find that the majority of the slow maps are ground maps. Aside from the fact that people prefer space pew-pew more than ground, ground maps pay for TRIBBLE in both XP per kill and in loot. (I find it odd that the value of ground items and space items were *normalized* yet the XP payout wasn't....)
Anyhow:
Queue Name: Breaking The Planet
Level Type: n/a
Average Wait Currently: Near impossible, NEVER for KDF
Average Wait Previously: Still took a bit to pop, but not weeks. There are simply ques that payout better now.
Breaking the Planet is a fun mission, particularly on the KDF-side. The problem is the pop-threshold is too damn high ESPECIALLY on the KDF side where they have a smaller playerbase by default.
Suggestions:
- Reduce the minimum amount of players required to start. At this point, 5 people should be enough.
- Give a choice of marks in addition to the regular current rewards. Fleet marks at bare minimum.
- Make a hybrid version that is cross-faction. Keep the Klingons as the baddies if you wish, but if you make it cross-faction it will pop MUCH more often.
Queue Name: Big Dig/Romulan Temple
Level Type: n/a
Average Wait Currently: Hours
Average Wait Previously:20-30 minutes
This map is also a fun map to play but it suffers from the same issues BtP does: a ridiculously high player threshold to start.
Suggestions:
- Reduce the minimum start threshold: right now its around 15. It should be 5-10.
- Make the threshold when people can join one in-progress longer: Since it is made for up to 20 people, these types of maps should keep the door open for longer periods of time for people to wander into. It will certainly keep people in the game longer.
- Increase the ending rewards: Currently we need a daily to get anything worth a TRIBBLE out of it. Why not just make the daily augment the current rewards and add Romulan marks? I mean, it's a friggin Romulan map, ffs!!!!
Queue Name: Mine Trap
Level Type: All
Average Wait Currently: Never pops, exept on Bonus Mark days
Average Wait Previously: 10-20 minutes.
Again, another situation where it requires too many people to start. To a point, this likely can't be avoided with this map, but if you MUST keep the 15-20 que pop threshold here, the payout MUST be strong to properly incentivise this map. In addition, this map is particularly long and has parts that annoy players (Salt Zombies Alphas are annoying as TRIBBLE...)In any case, keep in mind this map was more popular where there were fewer reps and not may good or fun ways to get Romulan marks.
Suggestions:
- Slightly reduce the threshold to pop. But only a little.
- Reduce the time this map takes up.
- If you can't reduce the time the map takes, increase the payout in both Dil and marks. Larger maps that require MORE people should ALWAYS PAY THE HIGHEST!
- Give choice of marks to incentivise
Queue Name: Nukara Prime: Self Destruct
Level Type: All
Average Wait Currently: Never pops.
Average Wait Previously: Bad
This map simply has too many moving parts and is too easy to fail. It's ridden with debuffs and turns a potentially fun and frenetic map into a grueling slugfest. It *could* be something fun like Bug Hunt, but no.
Suggestions:
I don't know. It's too easy for people to TRIBBLE it up. Reduce the failure conditions for starters.
Queue Name: Colony Invasion
Level Type: N/a (only one difficulty setting)
Average Wait Currently: 10-20 minutes. Much longer KDF-side
Average Wait Previously: 1-2 minutes.
Colony Invasion is one of those almost PERFECT ground maps where the pacing is excellent and the map is just a lot of fun. However, it now needs an elite version. With new maps out now and with a seeming push to reduce sources of XP, people are eschewing this mission simply because it doesn't give them jack for XP, being a ground mission and all.
Suggestions:
- Colony Invasion needs more types of baddies: It's been here for what, 2 years now and we're STILL (!) limited to Undine, Hirogen, Klingons, Breen and Jem Hadar for Fed and the same but swap Fed for KDF. Where are the Borg? Voth? Mirror Fed? Random alien group?
- Like other maps, it offers poor rewards for the current version of the game. It needs a reward buff.
That's all for now, I may add more later.
In the end though, all of this is a metaphorical circlejerk: As long as people feel that the effort doesn't match the rewards, they wan't play the mission. ESPECIALLY now that DR is putting our thumbs to the screws in every way possible (XP, Dil, etc)
1) The rewards no longer match the effort required.
2) Some person whom I'd really like to call a very nasty name decided Optionals ought to be changed to Mandatorys.
3) The same person decided the cheapest way to make the AI more challenging was to add "one million HPs!" (And I can picture him doing the Dr. Evil pinky finger thing while saying this) to each of the NPC's.
4) Most important one. The Ques are no longer fun. Why? See the above.
Do whatever you want with them, I no longer care. And Smirk, if I were you, I'd be updating my resume. I'd also be looking hard for a job. No future in being a heat shield for a bunch of people who are waay smarter than their customers. Don't believe they're smarter? Well then, go ask them, they'll tell you.
I say used to because you made Adv un-pugable, and Normal isn't worth the time-to-reward ratio..
http://i.imgur.com/2GotPKH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qZljQ2u.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mwFgMym.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XLtx0ql.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u8u3keZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qgs65yJ.jpg
In my experience these Queues DO NOT take long to start;
Infected - Conduit ADV - Space
Crystalline Catastrophe ADV - Space
The Cure ADV - Space
Bug Hunt Elite - Ground
Nukara Transdimentionl Elite - Ground
Nukara Infiltration Elite - Ground
Fleet Alert - Normal - Space
Khitomer ADV - Ground
*Less then 5mins for the above to start up;
(some are overexaggerating if they say any of these will not "pop")
But here is one that may never start again, and its such a SHAME (This one has me literally depressed);
MINE TRAP
Mine Trap - Ground --- 20 Man Queue will never fill for this amazing mission.
My fleet and I LOVE Mine Trap, but we can never play it anymore, as it never fills up.
Please do something for MINE TRAP - Some ideas we had in our fleet;
Make it a 5 man queue (you only need to fight in one quadrant)
Make an ADV and Elite Queue
***OR MAKE AN EVENT THAT REVOLVES AROUND MINE TRAP -- LIKE MIRROR INVASION***
(sorry for caps - it's just that I miss this mission so much)
Thank you for considering my entry.
Please note I'm being as unbiased/honest as possible with my entries.
I play everyday for several hours.
Regards
Taylor1701d
Except that Cryptic is not trying to help. They can't even see how useless this topic is.
1) Most of the answers they're looking for are a few clicks away ingame.
2) They can gauge such metrics themselves in a more controlled environment, using only a couple of people in different time ranges.
3) They don't realize that many players testing this will end up in fabricated, unrealistic results. To which begs the question: are they trying to artificially inflate the queues just to make them *seem* used? Of course I'm being malicious here, but I can no longer give Cryptic the benefit of doubt.
4) This kind of testing is tedious and stressful. It doesn't give players anything (if anything, they might lose things in the future, considering how Cryptic has been working lately). It only serves to waste time and energy of players. I feel bad for the ones that are testing this thinking it will be useful to them. It won't.
Cryptic needs to approach this differently. Instead of asking players to do their work, they should, first of all, implement queue metrics, if they're not implemented already. (And if they are, this topic is no longer useless and is now a big troll from the devs). Then, let the metrics speak for themselves. No fabricated results, no stressed out players, and the devs will all the data they want.
It's that simple.
STO Screenshot Archive
"perplexed", I'm amazed, perhaps Smirk just got back off a very long holiday.
The thought that Smirk doesn't actually know what's going on in the game is too just worrying to even consider.
I presume then, that this is the prelude to the long awaited maps rollback announcement.
Hailing all Cryptic Employees!
Having complaints with PvE queues?
Please actually play the game. Take a few hours, pick a meeting and cancel it. Have everyone instead log into the live server and play in the queues.
Please take the time to setup a few characters at various points in endgame gear/specialization/cash shop advancement. Have each employee fill out a survey. please do not allow anyone to enable godmode.
Queue Name: (Which PvE event?)
Level Type: (Normal, Advanced, Elite?)
Advancement Stage: (What gear used?)
Enjoyment/Frustration Experienced: (Was it fun?)
Thanks guys!
Somebody, somebody, can anybody find me queue to play?
I work hard every day of my life, I work till I ache my bones. At the end I take home my hard earned pay all on my own - I get down on my laptop
and I start to play. Till the tears run down from my eyes. Cryptic - somebody - somebody, can anybody find me - a queue to play?
Everyday - I try and I try and I try - But all those bugs wants to put me down. They say I'm goin' crazy. They say I got a lot of reporting errors in my queuelist. Got no common sense, I got nobody left to believe. Yeah - yeah yeah yeah..
Oh Cryptic, Somebody - somebody, can anybody find me a queue to play?
Got no pop, I got no rewards, I just keep losing my beat. I'm ok, I'm alright. Ain't gonna face no defeat. I just gotta get out of this queue of hell. Someday I'm gonna be free, Cryptic!
Find me a queue to play, can anybody find me a queue to play?!
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
It's not like the forum community hasn't given you the answers. Increase rewards, especially xp, remove the fail conditions. The thing that's most upsetting is that some of those fail conditions are bugged and still not fixed (looking at you viscous cycle anomaly). The only thing the fail conditions have done is increase frustration, I don't play your game to be frustrated. So I don't pug anything but crystalline.
Fewer rewards and increased difficulty = empty queues.
If you want ideas on how to fix this mess that might be more productive than this poll. As others said just log on yourself. I am not trying to be a jerk, but it's pretty obvious which queues pop if you just log in.
The reason Qs arnt popping is because of the strong arm tactic's you use to force players to play the content you want us to play by maxing the rewards in those few Qs
Dyson ground still the best dilithium reward
Argula the best xp award 8000 xp verses 2000 for all other content
The old fun STFs gutted with puny rewards and massive Fail condititions
Gating level 60 players content from level 50s
What you need to do is make the rewards even across the board make the rewards players choice across the board...Then pay attention to what is really popular content so you know what isn't fun and can improve that content
Drop the Fail condititions ..............Its Failing
Using your strong arm tactics an virtural blackmail to force us players to play the content you want us play for your own reasons is a HUGE problem you are bringing on yourselves
2000 xp to do a long hard infected advanced verses a super east argula patrol normal giving me 8000 xp is a prime example
infected advanced should give at least 8000 xp actually its longer and required 4 other players so it should be 12000 xp
That's why the Qs arnt popping
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse