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Sarr Theln - Too Small?
orangeitis
Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
Saw it in-game earlier today as I was in a dead queue. (:rolleyes:) That thing is TINY. I mean it supposedly launches Plesh Brek Raiders, 4 of them no less, and it's flatter than only one of them.
This ship needs to be a lot bigger. I mean carriers tend to be gigantic anyway, why not the Sarr Theln? Especially when its frigates physically wouldn't fit.
(The Xindi-Aquatic Narcine wouldn't hurt to be a bit chubbier as well...)
tl;dr - Sarr Theln ≠ MUH IMMERSION
This ship needs to be a lot bigger. I mean carriers tend to be gigantic anyway, why not the Sarr Theln? Especially when its frigates physically wouldn't fit.
(The Xindi-Aquatic Narcine wouldn't hurt to be a bit chubbier as well...)
tl;dr - Sarr Theln ≠ MUH IMMERSION
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(Sorry for the comparison but it is really small to be launching those raiders)
Please, please, increase the size of the Sarr Theln Carrier.
I presume the size of the original Sarr Theln was one of the reasons of its rebuilding for players (as DEVs seem to minimise any future sector space 'roadblocks' in the form of large vessels - oversize Scimitar, looking at you). Of course even just scaling that original Sarr Theln down a little would be a better solution, as it actually does have some volume in the mid-section to possibly house hangar craft. Not to mention it looked so much better.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Vo'Quv.
How does it fit 4 BoPs inside?
Easily.
http://postimg.org/image/48lybhmwh/
If you still have difficulty believing they fit through hangar doors, I propose that they may be able to fold their wings even more than we see it in game specifically for the docking procedure.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
It doesn't. B'Rels don't get carried, imagine they just decloak, accompanying your vessel all the time. Just think of the Breen "carrier" doing the same thing.
"Carrying" frigate pets is not a matter of size, it just doesn't make any sense.
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Not a carrier captain I take it? Lol
There are many carriers in the game that have friagate pets available to them, and most are sizable enough to give the appearance that the frigates fit inside, there are a couple carriers that look a bit small but none so much so that it looks awkward, even for a game that is somewhat offscale normally.
Seriously, the Sarr Theln needs to be 'fattened-up' from what it is now.
Edit: and by 'fattened-up' I mean scaled up, I like the way it looks now (very cool), but it needs to be larger.
But when the ship in question is compared to the pets it launches, then yes, the carrier and its pets should be sized more correctly.
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Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Battleship Galactica was perfect. It's form was determined by its function.
The boomerang shape of the Breen ship is weird for any size pets its launching. I agree the original design is more carrier-like.
Not my point. Carrying B'Rels around makes no sense in the context of the IP which didn't know carriers like that in the first place. Launching B'Rels defies their whole purpose as they are meant to ambush, not slowly being pushed out of some big brick within weapons range (which is how STO operates).
All carriers in this game should have been ddesignated "command ships" and their pets should warp in, not being launched (since with the exception of scorpions and swarmers, all pets are warp-capable). Shuttle craft smaller than runabouts should be portrayed via abilities like boarding party and not like combat pets. Only thing that makes sense to be slowly launched are separation parts.
Again, I'm not talking about anything but the flawed logic of forcing fighter carriers into this game, which happened to appeal to fans of other franchises. A designer (forgot who) openly stated via twitter prior to DR that they do this as part of the designs they come up with - Star Trek doesn't appeal to the kids (his words) anymore, that's why they borrow stuff and push it in.
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BUT
that would make different ships carriers, that now actually already have a role: cruisers. basically cruisers are the "command" vessels in ST. galaxy, sovereign and so on.
this would solve problems but also raise new.
basically i admitt that "launching" brels is complete bs, i always felt that way about it.
launching shuttles/runabouts on the one hangar fedships felt right. it remidned me of the ds9 episode with the oddyssey and the jema hadar. (the galaxyclass would have carried those runabouts, though in this episode the flew seperate on their own through the wh)
just the brel thing feels wrong. basically because they are player ships as well.
i think they should have expanded on the idea of unpiloted automated drones for carriers. its more logical, cause, i think even for KDF a warrior is placed not well in a death-wish-fighter ...
thats why i like the scimitardrones and the obelisk carrier. (still dont get why that thing is SO BIG HEEL) i also like the repairdrones and syphons. they all feel well placed.
but launching manned very-small-crafts is kind of wayne in the ST universe.
im still waiting for a federation-srtarfleet carrier with highly advanced unmanned! technology launchables.
That being said, there are explainations for the Plesh Brek pets. People say that BoPs might just decloak rather than being carried? Perhaps the Plesh Breks use their stealth powers in the same way.
Regardless, I still wish that the original design was an option in ship customization.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
But from where I stand, the damage is done. So the devs could at least try scaling ships with some logic.
May the original Sarr Theln live!
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
But joke aside, its actually a sleak and nice look, wich keeps the canon asymetrical shape yet adds inovating design. Sure its a bit flat for the raiders to fit in, but one could say the wings from those things also fold somehow.
This doesnt mean i am against an option to use the old skin. Altho I didnt like it that much. To me it looked like a breen warship first half-ship and a freighter last half-ship merged, like the breen enginners were drunk or something.
And as for carriers having to carry pets, lets not forget that now in STO are new travel technologies, like transwarp and slipstream, and it would be inefficient to put those expensive tech on pets that are more likely to be destroyed.
And also pets been replaced... Well with industrial replicators it can be done fast, thus only the crew would matter. So when a pet is about to be destroyed, the crew teleports to carrier, jumps in new hangar pet and flys off again. And I think thats how the devs intendend this. Becouse of a very intersting thing. Dunno if other ppl have noticed, but even the jhas hangar pets do the same when they about to ram the hangar ship. A msg pops up on top of the pet: "Emergency transport..." just before they do that. So the crew teleports to the carrier ship and in fact doesnt comit suicide.
I've described somewhere how I felt the old Sarr Theln looked more like a breen ship judging by the previously released and seen Chel Grett and Plesh Brek.
Not feeling like trying to dig it out, I'll just rephrase here that both previous designs have what I called a 'symmetrical asymmetry' (or asymmetrical symmetry
Now the original Sarr Theln also had a central deflector on the main body of the ship and symmetrical engine exhausts.
In other words, Breen ships up until now have been pretty symmetrical, actually. All of the perceived assymetry is the relative size, number or form of 'wings' and 'pods'.
The new Sarr theln, though, has two vertical winglets completely off the main axis, same as deflector and engine exhausts. The largest 'wing' is also tilted. Frankly, compared to the other ships i just described, it's a mess (not wanting to hurt the designer: it's a nice design, but I don't think it fits with the Breen theme very well and subjectively, I've always liked the previous Sarr Theln and was looking forward using it myself).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
The issue with the Sarr Theln/Plesh Brek combo is not that they're out of scale, but that the scale difference is so comically large. Typical carrier frigate may be too large to realistically fit into its carrier if you start to think about it too much, but the Plesh Brek is so big it obviously couldn't even hide behind a Sarr Theln much less inside it.
If that was the case it would be a Tender and not a carrier
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Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
This is not possible following technical canon. The alloys used in spacecraft construction cannot be replicated, so you cannot push a button and spawn a shuttle. They still have to traditionally assemble starships and shuttles
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This was intentionally added to the JHAS pets so Cryptic could add that bit of 'Trek' to the game, but did not have to live with the idea of knowing Starfleet officers were routinely killing themselves on collision courses.
They have to at least make it look like the playable factions have some measure of self-preservation.
This is beyond stupid. That doesn't make sense. Why would Starfleet officers kamikaze the target in the first place? Aaargh.
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Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
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'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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Worf was willing to do it with the Defiant (it was a better alternative than abandoning the ship and risk life as a Borg drone).
George Kirk was willing to do it with the Kelvin (at the risk of inciting Abrams Derangement Syndrome).
We even have the power "Ramming Speed" for our own ships.
Using the JHAS frigate pets as kamikaze ships at 50% hull or below says a few things.
1: The JHAS really is expendable.
2: Perfecting the tactic of emergency beam-out before causing a critically injured ship to explode against its target is strategically sound.
3: Cryptic wanted to be able to get that moment of the JHAS colliding with the Odyssey into the game.
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I own a Sarr Thein with Plesh Breks, and I agree with this completely. Everytime I laucnh them I can't help but wonder Where did those come from?
I was just thinking this as well. It would at least make sense.
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