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    oridjerraaoridjerraa Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Seeing as how any Joe can fail a mission, with intent, this problem is beyond the ability for Cryptic to repair. The Queues have become PVP. Irrelevant.

    I think 5 man content is going to die the same long, drawn out death of pvp. Private matches will function for a while, but by placing a containment barrier between new players and old, I see attrition eventually crippling them too.
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    joshmaaaaaaansjoshmaaaaaaans Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Mad?

    Yea seems pretty maddened.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Y'all wanna queue up for something when the game's back up? There's enough of us in here to at least fill a 20-player instance.

    Just saying.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lan451 wrote: »
    This is exactly where I'm at right now.

    I used to play the queues often. The 20 man Starbase Alert was one of my favorites. After DR came out, it's now dead. Moved on to Gorn Minefield since it gave decent xp and loot. Then the xp nerf came and now that queue is dead. Decided to farm up some dil so I went to the Voth BZ. Then that got smacked so now I just run the winter event, run some doff missions, and then go play other games. Once the winter event is done, I guess I just won't log in. From my perspective, DR actually removed content that I liked to play rather than add any.

    Which sucks because I really do want to play this game. There's just nothing interesting left for me to do here right now.

    This is exactly where I'm at right now.

    I used to play the queues often. The 20 man Starbase Alert was one of my favorites. No, seriously. :) It always gave an old 'Mirror Event' feel: lotsa foes to pew-pew.
    ummax wrote: »
    No one likes to be punished until they remove the autofail feature (not so optional optionals) from the advanced ques where the resources are available people wont play em.

    Yeah people would like better rewards, but if people dont even have a hope of completing something for the things like processors or materials they wont be wasting their time getting what rewards do exist.

    So I like many continue not to be bothered because unless I am after fleet marks I dont really need anything else out of them at the moment and since I am not doing them for "fun" because being failed by trolls or just lack of a team with any dps at all is inherently not fun.

    They needed to leave the q's as they were and add a third option that was "elite" but they chose to do something else.

    Truer words were rarely spoken! Take heed, Cryptic!
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    So here's the thing...

    It's no secret that I feel my play time is too limited to sit around and do nothing waiting for a queue to start.

    About the only time I ever join a queue is when MI or CC are running with their special rewards because I know that queue is going to pop reasonably soon and because they're reasonably short and sweet with a halfway decent PUG.

    I also prefer to join a queue when I can play together with my sons. That's 3 players... but I need 5 or more for the queue. Still no guarantee that queue is going to pop.

    And I want to play Normal, while all of the serious players are queueing up for Advanced because the rewards they want aren't on Normal.

    Picky? Yes. But I'm playing on my terms or not at all.

    It's not worth chasing after numerical rewards I can gain in other ways, or rewards that aren't there (in Normal) to spend excessive time on something that might fail. As long as there are other ways to enjoy the game, and the queued events are what they are, I won't be in 'em.

    Things that would draw me in more often:

    Featured PvE Queues (Normal and Advanced):

    A little extra reward would be enough to induce players to gravitate to certain queues so that they are always full. By rotating which queues get extra rewards, it would keep things fresh and keep the queues popping.

    More Flexible Teaming:

    Being able to start a queue with less than the normal 5-man team, preferably with scaling mobs and rewards to compensate for fewer players.


    Glad you're weighing in, Mr. Moderator. :)

    And one thing I forgot to mention about the queues, their emptiness gets compounded by the fact that... they're empty! I sometimes see 2 or 3 peeps queues for Starbase Fleet Defense; but they then soon leave (presumably, either because it takes too long, or they joined one of the queues that still gets traffic instead, like Fleet Alert).

    Personally, I want to play Advanced only. Never had a single Borg Disconnected Advanced PUG run ever, I think; meaning no Ancient Power Cells (I don't do ground), and lots of frustration. And that's even when I can get queued up for it to begin with.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,827 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    People are so afraid of a challenge and to lazy to actually learn how to play the game, they just want a game back where even the so called *elite* is a complete joke.

    I think that sums up the whole problem pretty well...
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    js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    People are so afraid of a challenge and to lazy to actually learn how to play the game, they just want a game back where even the so called *elite* is a complete joke.

    I think that sums up the whole problem pretty well...

    How is this even relevant to the discussion? If people only wanted to play Normal then there'd be people queued up for Normal STFs. There aren't. It's empty. Even if they made it 10000 times easier they would still be empty. The problem is the reduced rewards - less marks, less dilithium and less things like Borg Neural Processors.

    To suggest that people aren't playing because it's too difficult is a bit silly.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
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    dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    People are so afraid of a challenge and to lazy to actually learn how to play the game, they just want a game back where even the so called *elite* is a complete joke.

    I think that sums up the whole problem pretty well...

    [sarcasm on]No... no... no... they are "Casuals", they play once a week for "fun" so they should get evrything faster and cheaper than normal players. Anyone who have any idea how this game works have to get down to their level. Why? Because they are "casuals" and it's their right to get it.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    People are so afraid of a challenge and to lazy to actually learn how to play the game, they just want a game back where even the so called *elite* is a complete joke.

    I think that sums up the whole problem pretty well...

    Assuming for a moment that you're right, it's irrelevant, really. You can't 'Geko' yourself thru an argument like that, as in "Players better learn how to do X or Y, or the queues remain empty." This is a commercial game: you can't offer stuff you think ppl *need* to be able to do, but only what practice shows they *can* do. And 'can' is taken very broadly here (including want, willing, etc). And clearly, what Geko wants people to do, and what is actually happening, are two different things.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    tinead51tinead51 Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dkratasco wrote: »
    [sarcasm on]No... no... no... they are "Casuals", they play once a week for "fun" so they should get evrything faster and cheaper than normal players. Anyone who have any idea how this game works have to get down to their level. Why? Because they are "casuals" and it's their right to get it.

    You big fibber, no-one plays for "FUN" anymore. ;)
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    kristaswiftkristaswift Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    betanem wrote: »
    I'm thinking of quieting this game because of the empty queue, I've had enough of grinding argala. As the game is right now, I cant see it making it to the next anniversary event. I really hope they change the rewards so people will stay.

    Tell that to the unbelievers who said "nothing to see here" :eek:

    I have not done a single PvP since DR launched. The PvP thread is full angry players...being left out as the ugly redhead stepchild from Cryptic. I know its just PvP and most dont like it. However, a small indicator of things to come....looks as if someone put an atomic bomb to eradicate a fly. XP nerfing among the other "fixes" has killed the game for many...yet...NOTHING to see here :mad:
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    js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dkratasco wrote: »
    [sarcasm on]No... no... no... they are "Casuals", they play once a week for "fun" so they should get evrything faster and cheaper than normal players. Anyone who have any idea how this game works have to get down to their level. Why? Because they are "casuals" and it's their right to get it.

    That's not the problem and you know it. Don't be a silly elitist. When the casual players stop playing you'll run out of people to swing your e-peen at.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
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    cowbertcowbert Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The required Winter Wonderland grind is what is reducing queue counts overall. But as a shamelessplug you should be able to get decent PUGs going at nearly all times of day in the PublicEliteSTF/PublicAdvancedSTF channels
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    dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    That's not the problem and you know it. Don't be a silly elitist. When the casual players stop playing you'll run out of people to swing your e-peen at.

    First, I'm not elitist. I still have long way to get such level as they. I just spend sometime and used my brain to learn how this game and its mechanics work, more or less.

    Second, yes this is one of the sources of most problems in game. Read again this and many similar topics about advance PvE, other content or any other change. In everyone you will find same argument "NERF it, we are casuals it's to hard, we don't have time or willingness to learn game or adapt, we have life/work/other games/put-anything-you-want-here, we don't have time to get dilithium/ec/put-anything-you-want-here. Why should I pay whole day refine cap for one item? I play only once a week and don't earn that much why should I pay same price as any other 'normal' player and yet wait longer? I want discount."
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    lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,827 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    How is this even relevant to the discussion? If people only wanted to play Normal then there'd be people queued up for Normal STFs. There aren't. It's empty. Even if they made it 10000 times easier they would still be empty. The problem is the reduced rewards - less marks, less dilithium and less things like Borg Neural Processors.

    To suggest that people aren't playing because it's too difficult is a bit silly.

    You can BS all you want but the proof is in the pudding, people in the game are extremely and I mean extremely with a capital *EXTREMELY* spoiled.

    Elite queues were a complete joke and were doable by anyone, heck when people hit 50 they just ignored normal and went straight to elite. Now they can't do that...now they can't get max level rewards for minimal effort. So they complain and quit...

    People could vape other people in PvP rather easily...now there are specializations that give players actual defense and they complain...

    We get our level raised to 60 and we get new levels of gear but we need to upgrade them...and people complain. But you know what? It's better than any other MMO expansion because you'd have to start completely fresh and grind out your new gear if this was any other expansion...so this system is more friendly and yet people still complain.

    I'm not saying the system is perfect and it doesn't need any kind of changes at all but I see a lot of spoiled people complaining about how tough things are now that they can't absolutely faceroll everything now.
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    ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    cowbert wrote: »
    The required Winter Wonderland grind is what is reducing queue counts overall. But as a shamelessplug you should be able to get decent PUGs going at nearly all times of day in the PublicEliteSTF/PublicAdvancedSTF channels

    I haven't joined those channels I am a pretty quiet person but I might give it a shot. If the drama level is too high I will leave it I guess. I do have at this point as a result of ingame ranting a rather large ignore list lets just hope I have not ignored people in that channel :)

    I can read rants on the forums if I want to read rants, when I login to the game though I want it to be "rantless" I had to put a guy on ignore the other night who I started having a chat with in pm's he asked a question and I answered it and then after he got his answer he commenced to complain about well everything I drew the line when he complained that cryptic was giving free EC's to certain fleets and not others.

    Anyhow if people start ranting in that channel I wont be there very long but I might give it a shot after the winter event.
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    ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    You can BS all you want but the proof is in the pudding, people in the game are extremely and I mean extremely with a capital *EXTREMELY* spoiled.

    Elite queues were a complete joke and were doable by anyone, heck when people hit 50 they just ignored normal and went straight to elite. Now they can't do that...now they can't get max level rewards for minimal effort. So they complain and quit...

    People could vape other people in PvP rather easily...now there are specializations that give players actual defense and they complain...

    We get our level raised to 60 and we get new levels of gear but we need to upgrade them...and people complain. But you know what? It's better than any other MMO expansion because you'd have to start completely fresh and grind out your new gear if this was any other expansion...so this system is more friendly and yet people still complain.

    I'm not saying the system is perfect and it doesn't need any kind of changes at all but I see a lot of spoiled people complaining about how tough things are now that they can't absolutely faceroll everything now.

    I wont ever join any of those q's for fun no matter how geared up i am until they remove the griefing mechanic they introduced.

    I am however just pointing out though that the q's are to help gear people up once they are geared up if they are unpleasant to play they wont be playing them for fun. This is what is happening I only join stf's I absolutely must join. I no longer q for some fun because there is no point.

    Again though people make the assumption that those complaining can't do the content or are undergeared. This is not the case here.....

    also advanced is for level 50-60 that means a level 50 player with average level 50 gear should be able to conquer it!

    The elite is for level 60 geared to the teeth only.
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    dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ummax wrote: »
    also advanced is for level 50-60 that means a level 50 player with average level 50 gear should be able to conquer it!

    And he can, problem is that most players who cries are under what average lv 50 can and should be.
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    lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,827 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ummax wrote: »
    I wont ever join any of those q's for fun no matter how geared up i am until they remove the griefing mechanic they introduced.

    I am however just pointing out though that the q's are to help gear people up once they are geared up if they are unpleasant to play they wont be playing them for fun. This is what is happening I only join stf's I absolutely must join. I no longer q for some fun because there is no point.

    Again though people make the assumption that those complaining can't do the content or are undergeared. This is not the case here.....

    also advanced is for level 50-60 that means a level 50 player with average level 50 gear should be able to conquer it!

    The elite is for level 60 geared to the teeth only.

    Advanced is doable, problem is your average player isn't very good, they don't know what they're doing nor do I imagine they try to learn. I can't tell you how many times I've asked someone to do this or that in a elite (No I didn't bark orders or tell people they suck if the group isn't near perfect.) and people just flat out ignore me or anyone else who tries to provide information.

    You could completely suck and only need one or two greats to finish a elite and now that isn't the case anymore in advanced or elite.

    Yes things should be changed but a lot of this complaining is due to the game just not being as easy as it used to be.
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    prediwave1prediwave1 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    At this point the way Cryptic is in denial is quite comical...
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    js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dkratasco wrote: »
    And he can, problem is that most players who cries are under what average lv 50 can and should be.

    I'm level 60, I don't expect free stuff and I'm not a casual player. I'm saying that the queues are empty because the rewards have been nerfed. There's no other reason. Trying to swerve the discussion away by saying anything else is just silly and irrelevant.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
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    ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dkratasco wrote: »
    And he can, problem is that most players who cries are under what average lv 50 can and should be.

    I can too however I refuse to play a game that makes me miserable so i dont so those that need to get things from those instances have less people to play with. Hence q's remain empty because only people who absolutely must play the stfs for an item inside are playing them.

    I am not entering a pug group with a chance of being failed in under a minute due to an obvious badly implemented mechanic I will go do something else that is more fun. As are others so the population drops to only those needing stuff from them.

    get it yet? People are not playing them because they are not "fun" they will go do something else the problem is not about ability the problem is about something else.
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    opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Advanced is doable, problem is your average player isn't very good, they don't know what they're doing nor do I imagine they try to learn. I can't tell you how many times I've asked someone to do this or that in a elite (No I didn't bark orders or tell people they suck if the group isn't near perfect.) and people just flat out ignore me or anyone else who tries to provide information.

    You could completely suck and only need one or two greats to finish a elite and now that isn't the case anymore in advanced or elite.

    Yes things should be changed but a lot of this complaining is due to the game just not being as easy as it used to be.

    Let me guess, you roll a Romulan tactical in some kind of 5 tactical console warbird?

    Oh trust me I know, sometimes the power of the Scimitar and similar Romulan ships can really mess with your head; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    I shelved my Fed in DR to work on my Romulan tac myself, because they were outrageously OP pre-DR and now I daresay necessary post-DR.

    Sometimes you have to take the perspective of others when you speak, because looking at the game from your own perspective only can sometimes cloud issues at hand.

    Now you may respond to this negatively, but I maintain that it would be a good idea for you to look at it from the perspective of a player that perhaps does not have all the answers or gear such as you.

    In any video game, there are bound to be countless scrubs and unoptimized builds, but the fact that they are not very good should not discount them from playing at least what is "middle of the road" content (I.e. Advanced Queues).

    Trust me, in every video game I've played, scrubs outnumber good players at least 10:1, so in that context these fail queues are a pretty unreasonable expectation.
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    dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    I'm level 60, I don't expect free stuff and I'm not a casual player. I'm saying that the queues are empty because the rewards have been nerfed. There's no other reason. Trying to swerve the discussion away by saying anything else is just silly and irrelevant.

    As a fleet player I have no problem to find 5 or even 10 to start any queue, and never heard "I want go for that one because rewards are to low".
    Most people go private with fleet, friends or specific channels simply because they have enough of failed missions due to some PUG who have no idea what to do and don't even want to listen how not to fail mission or is simply unprepared even for normal missions.
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    js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dkratasco wrote: »
    As a fleet player I have no problem to find 5 or even 10 to start any queue, and never heard "I want go for that one because rewards are to low".
    Most people go private with fleet, friends or specific channels simply because they have enough of failed missions due to some PUG who have no idea what to do and don't even want to listen how not to fail mission or is simply unprepared even for normal missions.

    "Most people go private"

    Can I see the numbers on that?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
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    dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    I'm saying that the queues are empty because the rewards have been nerfed. There's no other reason.

    Can I see numbers on that? Did you done any questionnaire about why people stop doing queses?
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    gameleechgameleech Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Empty queues are the single most important concern for the game I have. I can and have ignored all the rest of the things I dont agree with like cash sinks. Spec pts grind doesnt affect me. Queues are huge issue however.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dkratasco wrote: »
    Can I see numbers on that? Did you done any questionnaire about why people stop doing queses?

    The 'numbers' for the queues are self-evident: just open your queue window, and see for yourself.

    Also, if possible, I was hoping to avoid seeing this thread detetiorate into 'People are so spoiled and cannot even do X!' arguments. This is NOT about what more experienced players *think* others should be able to do, but about the dismal state of the queues 'as is' (and wasn't before DR). And what Cryptic plans to do about it, if anything.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The 'numbers' for the queues are self-evident: just open your queue window, and see for yourself.

    Also, if possible, I was hoping to avoid seeing this thread detetiorate into 'People are so spoiled and cannot even do X!' arguments. This is NOT about what more experienced players *think* others should be able to do, but about the dismal state of the queues 'as is' (and wasn't before DR). And what Cryptic plans to do about it, if anything.

    Numbers shows that queues are empty, but they don't show why or that missions aren't played at all. Missions which weren't played before DR still aren't played, but as I look at "playing" column I still see same numbers of players doing same missions as previously (taking into account the outflow for the event) only difference is that they get in 'game' other way than queue, it means they gone private.

    Lets say that average person in our country can't read (he could be but he doesn't want) is this means that we should change our educational system to lower its level and getting rid off whole idea of teaching reading?
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    opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The 'numbers' for the queues are self-evident: just open your queue window, and see for yourself.

    Also, if possible, I was hoping to avoid seeing this thread detetiorate into 'People are so spoiled and cannot even do X!' arguments. This is NOT about what more experienced players *think* others should be able to do, but about the dismal state of the queues 'as is' (and wasn't before DR). And what Cryptic plans to do about it, if anything.

    It's just people's inability to feel sympathy for others. Unfortunately, there will always be those types of people in the world. Super official Psychology metrics state that 1 percent of the general population of Earth are psychopaths after all. :P

    Without even needing to sympathize with others, it's pretty easy to see that soon even good players will run out of people to play with. So even for a selfish reason, it's only logical to think that it would be a good idea to preserve the players for the content so the content can actually be played.
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