Low DPS in ISA just doesn't help. BNP's should drop on normals albeit perhaps at a lower rate so new or low DPS players have the chance to get BNP's to collect gear.
Possessing BNP equipment wan't magically make their build having enough DPS (and by enough I mean 10k not more). If someone can't do anything meaningful with normal items, reputation gear wan't help.
Going 'private' is still indicative of a problem with the queues. This is a casual PvE game: if it can't be done (reasonably) within the PUG system, then something is wrong.
Lets look at missions levels as content for all type of players, not only so called casuals (who in many thread came to be people who play 2-3 hours per week)
Normal: level for casuals, doable with 3-4k DPS or good tactic and skill usage.
Advance: level for players who have at least some idea how game works and what to do, doable with 10k DPS or good tactic and skill usage.
Elite: level for players who want more challenge from game and their builds.
The others who weren't and still aren't, are doomed to struggle. Why they care about, what, a few thousands players who can trash the content easily compared to the fast majority is beyond me.
Major failings of social thinking, imagining the lagging masses as 1. a group that YOU need to speak for and 2. requiring that the status quo [which lead to this situation] be maintained in order to keep them struggling.
Prior to DR you could play at the "end game" without considering gameplay mechanics. That's not right for a video game, you shouldn't be at a point umpteen hours in and still fail to recognize that a loadout exclusively containing beam arrays, single cannons, and at least two mines isn't apporpriate. Its like approaching an FPS boss fight without SOME awareness of grenades and reloading. Challenge should be presented and the fact of the matter is that the pre-DR end-game balance WAS NOT doing that. Players were too easily accommodated by, on the one hand, a near lack of difficulty (as defined by damage, health, and AI behavior) and on the other by players like YOU and me that were [presumably in your case] able to compensate for a deficient team member or three with overwhelming firepower. Now the latter is codified into a level cap increase (challenging us to do more but within better established boundaries) and while that high bar is moving the low is pushing as well (primarily for greater awareness).
The game through failure is hinting that you're not playing it in an appropriate way. A rainbow-beam star cruiser (when made in earnest and not as a calculated exercise to show that it can be done) is now more evidently at the level of an SCV charge against a line of siege tanks. Those that presists are going to find a struggle but its finally because STO is acting like a video game and less like a electronic drug (where all are welcome to partake of the pixel-generated neuro-chemical high regardless of their ability to manipulate a key-board or find a workable loadout.)
Its an encouraging thing to see, and yet here we are on the forums arguing that because STO is finally living up to some decent standard of gameplay balance its ruined the game for some loosely specified group of OTHER people, which is an entirely arbitrary argument (ie. it can be made regardless of circumstance because in speaking for another group you can make them say whatever you want them to.)
Anyway, as for the PVE populations, read up on source-sink population dynamics and consider that for quite some time now we've had special event playlists with >15 second wait times and an expansion of the total number of sinks the population can inhabit (via the 3 new DR PVE's, the various difficulty permutations of those, and the new elite queues for existing PVE's.) Find an aggragate population figure if you want to talk about macro-population dynamics (ie. what the community thinks). Don't try to force micro-population dynamics [ie. what you can see in any single PVE or aggregation of single PVE's] into that role (given that other factors such as a change in the size and structure of the system is likely to affect it.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I used to do a lot of queued events. In fact it was just about the only thing I did. Now I don't do any at all. I was basically chased away by the pitiful rewards and found myself doing the Voth Battlezone. Then they decided to nerf that as well so now I'm doing the winter event and doffing. Once the winter event is over I'm not really sure what I'm going to do.
This is exactly where I'm at right now.
I used to play the queues often. The 20 man Starbase Alert was one of my favorites. After DR came out, it's now dead. Moved on to Gorn Minefield since it gave decent xp and loot. Then the xp nerf came and now that queue is dead. Decided to farm up some dil so I went to the Voth BZ. Then that got smacked so now I just run the winter event, run some doff missions, and then go play other games. Once the winter event is done, I guess I just won't log in. From my perspective, DR actually removed content that I liked to play rather than add any.
Which sucks because I really do want to play this game. There's just nothing interesting left for me to do here right now.
The game through failure is hinting that you're not playing it in an appropriate way. A rainbow-beam star cruiser (when made in earnest and not as a calculated exercise to show that it can be done) is now more evidently at the level of an SCV charge against a line of siege tanks. Those that presists are going to find a struggle but its finally because STO is acting like a video game and less like a electronic drug (where all are welcome to partake of the pixel-generated neuro-chemical high regardless of their ability to manipulate a key-board or find a workable loadout.)
Sorry. That''''s long winded nonsense. It's still a DPS game and players are fed up with the DR mess. All the money they get they can't fix game mechanic and machines(5+ hour maintenance that should have taken 3+ at most). Cryptic is going continue to sell big shiniessDPS oriented til it bleeds.
Anyway, to you I think you would say "Delta Rising is the BEST expansion EVER and players LOVE it" while the queues continue to go down.
Problem:
Public queues are empty (long wait times)
Why: Normal - Poor rewards for effort Advanced - 'Optional' too difficult for casual players to be worth hour cooldown
Some Suggestions:
Normal Rewards - make Reputation item have a chance to drop. (if it has a chance already..raise the chance to like 50%+ ) Advanced Rewards - keep guaranteed drop for Rep. item and chance to drop Salvage item Elite Rewards - Guaranteed Rep and Salvage items with chance to drop multiple of each
Lower cool down time on Failed runs to 15mins. (or remove them out right)
Edit:
As for the the other events,
they really should give at least a Rep Marks Choice box
BTW, you guys that are hard up on Dilithium ore know you can change Marks to ore right?
are you guys not getting that 8000 refine limit or something?
I used to do a lot of queued events. In fact it was just about the only thing I did. Now I don't do any at all. I was basically chased away by the pitiful rewards and found myself doing the Voth Battlezone. Then they decided to nerf that as well so now I'm doing the winter event and doffing. Once the winter event is over I'm not really sure what I'm going to do.
Just DOFF, that is about it once Winter is over. Ever since they got rid of hourly events the majority of what I do is DOFF, with the occasional STF with my fleet. But now that my fleet mates are gone and the queues are empty I guess all that is left is to DOFF so I can build up my resources for the next grind. Of course they almost totally ruined DOFFing too a while back, so if they eventually nerf that the rest of the way then I will truly have to reason to be here.
Oh, and I don't even know why I'm event doing the Winter stuff, I already have the new ship and all my reps full. I don't need marks from the race event, so the only reason I'm there is because I enjoy the map. So it looks like I will just go back to turning over contraband... that should be the name of the next expansion... "Star Trek Online - Log in every four hours to DOFF".
Anyway, to you I think you would say "Delta Rising is the BEST expansion EVER and players LOVE it" while the queues continue to go down.
While the queues continue to go down eh?
Tell me what would you expect when two event playlists have been added to a matchmaking system that has also seen considerable expansion, while maintaining a relatively consistent population. (see the steam charts. I know they're not reliable stand-ins for comprehensive statistics, especially in comparing long-term and short-term population trends since its quite apparent that they apply some smoothing parameter to long-term data. Just look at, say, Sept to Nov since the reporting method seems to be reasonably consistent within that time frame.)
Result: each individual queue has less population to work with. Is that a sign of "players HATING DR"? No of course not, its just elementary population dynamics (and before you start on a rather silly tangent, its not a sign that the LOVE DR either. Unlike you I don't try to project personal opinion into large-scale data trends, though I do like to make appriorate sure that lage-scale data trends are appropriately interpreted.)
Now of course I know that's a lot of words for you, so here's a simple summary: the forums aren't worth taking at face value. They operate according to mob social dynamics and are therefore liable to exaggerate and misrepresent facts in order to pursue that which is most satisfying to...woops there I go with the words again!
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Tell me what would you expect when two event playlists have been added to a matchmaking system that has also seen considerable expansion, while maintaining a relatively consistent population. (see the steam charts. I know they're not reliable stand-ins for comprehensive statistics, especially in comparing long-term and short-term population trends since its quite apparent that they apply some smoothing parameter to long-term data. Just look at, say, Sept to Nov since the reporting method seems to be reasonably consistent within that time frame.)
Each individual queue has less population to work with. Is that a sign of "players HATING DR"? No of course not, its just elementary population dynamics (and before you start on a dim tangent, its not a sign that the LOVE DR either. Unlike you I don't try to project my own personal opinion into large-scale data trends, though I do like to make appriorate sure that lage-scale data trends are APPROPRIATELY interpreted.)
Now of course I know that's a lot of words for you, so here's a simple summary: the forums aren't worth taking at face value. They operate according to mob social dynamics and are therefore liable to exaggerate and misrepresent facts in order to pursue that which is most satisfying to...woops there I go with the words again!
Baloney. There are the same handful in the queues now with the winter event as there were before it started.
About 50 in CCA as it's the only working mission.
About 15 in ISA and 15 in the other borg stfs.
5 or 10 in bug hunt and BD Normal. and 5 or 10 miscellaneous.
I guess those 20 - 30 people playing the new pve content have wiped out the other missions right?
Or the 10 in the elachi event?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Maybe 1500 dilithium scaling up depending on how well you do
and a chance for a Random Superior Upgrade on completion of each stage (per team).
maybe add a small chance for a 'Summon Salt Vampire' device to drop.
But if you buff the rewards to one queue you remove population from another. Maybe that might take people out of the CCA or Winter Event super-sinks but then again maybe not (since there's no strict control over population flow.)
As painful as it may be to think about this, a fix to the current population problems in the PVE is going to have to come from cuts. Rewards do need tweaking as well, but they can only mitigate for the problem setup in spreading out a group of people spread across a too wide a field. And we can still hold onto the special stuff via temporary playlists (though preferably with a much more frequent cycle than we currently see in the Elachi and Mirror events. Say every weekend cycle one in/out.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Baloney. There are the same handful in the queues now with the winter event as there were before it started.
About 50 in CCA as it's the only working mission.
About 15 in ISA and 15 in the other borg stfs.
5 or 10 in bug hunt and BD Normal. and 5 or 10 miscellaneous.
I guess those 20 - 30 people playing the new pve content have wiped out the other missions right?
Or the 10 in the elachi event?
I'm really not going to dignify that with much of a reply. Sufficed to say that statistics isn't just a matter of looking out the window and counting how many people you see on the street in front of you. And if you're going to want to say things about large trends in the world, you should be mindful of what and isn't good stats.
You can argue that "oh, well right now is an entirely representative and unbiased sample that totally stands in for real data" but such would be entirely hollow.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I'm really not going to dignify that with much of a reply. Sufficed to say that statistics isn't just a matter of looking out the window and counting how many people you see on the street in front of you. And if you're going to want to say things about large trends in the world, you should be mindful of what and isn't good stats.
What's wrong with these stats? They come from looking at the queues for the past 6 weeks every day at the same time and counting.
It may be comforting to deny the truth but the truth is out there!
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
What's wrong with these stats? They come from looking at the queues for the past 6 weeks every day at the same time and counting
Unless you can calculate a standard deviation (not that you should do that, but you should be able to with this type of data) that's just a collection of out-the-window glances (and not as a matter of fact much better). Nice that you kept the time of day standardized but your short-term experimental design needs work (because you'll note that my point was that SEVERAL factors have been affecting PVE queues, INCLUDING the events but ALSO including the DR add-ons without subtractions.)
In any case, its not truth. Its just a supposition that tries to stand in for real data in order to contradict a reasonable argument without, mind you, approaching that reason (except from the stand point of nya-uh, population dynamics don't matter. Its all about DR=fail.) You can do better!
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
My comment here is totally subjective but even the Winter event feels light on people participating. The PvP race had a lot of racers last year with people zone-hopping to get as few competetors as possible. This year, I have yet to run against more than 3-4 people, mostly just one or none.
All I want for X-mas this year is for the game to go back to feeling remotely rewarding in more than just a few places but Im begnning to see that just isn't going to happen. The last year has felt like one piece of coal after another in my STO stocking.
I've noticed the crowds in the winter event seem to be thinner than last year, and certainly much less than the summer event.
With regard to the STFs, I refuse to play them. They're not fun... And they're not worth my time.
I'm sure a lot of guys will tell me that I have to adapt, I'm lazy, stupid, need better gear, etc. My response is this - no I don't. I just won't play them. I suspect this view is shared by a large portion of the player base.
Oh, please.
Change is not always a good thing.
The queues are mostly empty because they simply aren't worth doing anymore. You have a complete unbalance of time invested to reward ratio.
Glad you agree with me, but you wrote your post as if you didn't read mine:
To be fair, there isn't really a middle-ground, but the pre-Expansion elite STF's had become much too easy. There were/are Videos of BFAW Aux2Batt Scimitards soloing (what was) ISE, STF's completed in one minute and fifty seconds. Shuttles beating No Win Scenario.
Delta Rising is, in many ways, a mess. But that mess was created as by-product of the powercreep created BEFORE Delta Rising launched. The old adage about rose-tinted spectacles seems appropriate here.
Yes the game has some elite players, but I would go so far to say that Pre -DR most average players did not do very much DPS. When I would pug for fun most of the time the other four guys usually ended up at the respawn point many times.
It's still a fact 75% of all people don't like chnage, it was not smart to chnage everything.
The wiser move would have been to make no changes, but it add epic queues and level 60 zones.
I guess I'm wrong because everyone thinks this is the best expansion ever as it's on everyone's signatures now.😀
Unless you can calculate a standard deviation that's just a collection of out-the-window glances (and not as a matter of fact much better). Nice that you kept the time of day standardized but your short-term experimental design needs work (because you'll note that my point was that SEVERAL factors have been affecting PVE queues, INCLUDING the events but ALSO including the DR add-ons without subtractions.)
In any case, its not truth. Its just a supposition that tries to stand in for real data in order to contradict a reasonable argument without, mind you, approaching that reason (except from the stand point of nya-uh, population dynamics don't matter. Its all about DR=fail.)
The thing is there was no reason to consider this before Oct 14. You join a 5 person queue. Click - you're playing in under 30 seconds. The only time I've been observing and counting is the past 6 weeks. The first 2 post expansion were spent slowly enjoying the Delta missions.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
No one likes to be punished until they remove the autofail feature (not so optional optionals) from the advanced ques where the resources are available people wont play em.
Yeah people would like better rewards, but if people dont even have a hope of completing something for the things like processors or materials they wont be wasting their time getting what rewards do exist.
So I like many continue not to be bothered because unless I am after fleet marks I dont really need anything else out of them at the moment and since I am not doing them for "fun" because being failed by trolls or just lack of a team with any dps at all is inherently not fun.
They needed to leave the q's as they were and add a third option that was "elite" but they chose to do something else.
Tell me what would you expect when two event playlists have been added to a matchmaking system that has also seen considerable expansion, while maintaining a relatively consistent population. (see the steam charts. I know they're not reliable stand-ins for comprehensive statistics, especially in comparing long-term and short-term population trends since its quite apparent that they apply some smoothing parameter to long-term data. Just look at, say, Sept to Nov since the reporting method seems to be reasonably consistent within that time frame.)
Result: each individual queue has less population to work with. Is that a sign of "players HATING DR"? No of course not, its just elementary population dynamics (and before you start on a rather silly tangent, its not a sign that the LOVE DR either. Unlike you I don't try to project personal opinion into large-scale data trends, though I do like to make appriorate sure that lage-scale data trends are appropriately interpreted.)
Now of course I know that's a lot of words for you, so here's a simple summary: the forums aren't worth taking at face value. They operate according to mob social dynamics and are therefore liable to exaggerate and misrepresent facts in order to pursue that which is most satisfying to...woops there I go with the words again!
Throwing insults really!!! That's your response so I can't take your response as value.
in other MMOs, like WOW, ist totally normal that you have to queue 1h+ till your "stf" starts... thats no excuse, but just want to say this "empty" queues happen in other games too.
in other MMOs, like WOW, ist totally normal that you have to queue 1h+ till your "stf" starts... thats no excuse, but just want to say this "empty" queues happen in other games too.
The point is this - The queues were full before the expansion. Now they're empty.
They change they made have not been embraced by the player base. If they want them to be part of the experience, they need to make significant changes to draw players back in.
I'm not sure I ever heard the logic of adjusting all the queues (and adding mandatory optionals) - why didn't they just add the super-elite queues? Maybe someone could educate me?
It's no secret that I feel my play time is too limited to sit around and do nothing waiting for a queue to start.
About the only time I ever join a queue is when MI or CC are running with their special rewards because I know that queue is going to pop reasonably soon and because they're reasonably short and sweet with a halfway decent PUG.
I also prefer to join a queue when I can play together with my sons. That's 3 players... but I need 5 or more for the queue. Still no guarantee that queue is going to pop.
And I want to play Normal, while all of the serious players are queueing up for Advanced because the rewards they want aren't on Normal.
Picky? Yes. But I'm playing on my terms or not at all.
It's not worth chasing after numerical rewards I can gain in other ways, or rewards that aren't there (in Normal) to spend excessive time on something that might fail. As long as there are other ways to enjoy the game, and the queued events are what they are, I won't be in 'em.
Things that would draw me in more often:
Featured PvE Queues (Normal and Advanced):
A little extra reward would be enough to induce players to gravitate to certain queues so that they are always full. By rotating which queues get extra rewards, it would keep things fresh and keep the queues popping.
More Flexible Teaming:
Being able to start a queue with less than the normal 5-man team, preferably with scaling mobs and rewards to compensate for fewer players.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I'm not sure I ever heard the logic of adjusting all the queues (and adding mandatory optionals) - why didn't they just add the super-elite queues? Maybe someone could educate me?
actually the original blog write up about the q revamp was that they were going to just basically be adding a third option (elites) so that casuals could get a bit of good loot and players who wanted more of a challenge would have one.
what did happen was there were a couple of elites added (not many but you need to be level 60 to see them) and the advanced had their optionals turned into mandatories with many of them failing and giving no reward within under a minute. Meaning you could q potentially for hours join fail in under 60 seconds and then be locked out with a time penalty resulting in a gigantic waste of time lol so why bother q'ing in the first place.
Add to that there are people who join the q's to purposely fail it on the first objective since they basicaly introduced a griefing mechanic into the q system.. then again why bother lol
The point is this - The queues were full before the expansion. Now they're empty.
They change they made have not been embraced by the player base. If they want them to be part of the experience, they need to make significant changes to draw players back in.
I'm not sure I ever heard the logic of adjusting all the queues (and adding mandatory optionals) - why didn't they just add the super-elite queues? Maybe someone could educate me?
wow, talk about rose colored glasses, there were plenty of empty ques pre-DR
in fact almost all the ques that are empty now, were just as empty back then
as far as I've seen, typical player habits haven't changed much
Glad you agree with me, but you wrote your post as if you didn't read mine:
Yes the game has some elite players, but I would go so far to say that Pre -DR most average players did not do very much DPS. When I would pug for fun most of the time the other four guys usually ended up at the respawn point many times.
It's still a fact 75% of all people don't like chnage, it was not smart to chnage everything.
The wiser move would have been to make no changes, but it add epic queues and level 60 zones.
I guess I'm wrong because everyone thinks this is the best expansion ever as it's on everyone's signatures now.😀
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Comments
Lets look at missions levels as content for all type of players, not only so called casuals (who in many thread came to be people who play 2-3 hours per week)
Normal: level for casuals, doable with 3-4k DPS or good tactic and skill usage.
Advance: level for players who have at least some idea how game works and what to do, doable with 10k DPS or good tactic and skill usage.
Elite: level for players who want more challenge from game and their builds.
Major failings of social thinking, imagining the lagging masses as 1. a group that YOU need to speak for and 2. requiring that the status quo [which lead to this situation] be maintained in order to keep them struggling.
Prior to DR you could play at the "end game" without considering gameplay mechanics. That's not right for a video game, you shouldn't be at a point umpteen hours in and still fail to recognize that a loadout exclusively containing beam arrays, single cannons, and at least two mines isn't apporpriate. Its like approaching an FPS boss fight without SOME awareness of grenades and reloading. Challenge should be presented and the fact of the matter is that the pre-DR end-game balance WAS NOT doing that. Players were too easily accommodated by, on the one hand, a near lack of difficulty (as defined by damage, health, and AI behavior) and on the other by players like YOU and me that were [presumably in your case] able to compensate for a deficient team member or three with overwhelming firepower. Now the latter is codified into a level cap increase (challenging us to do more but within better established boundaries) and while that high bar is moving the low is pushing as well (primarily for greater awareness).
The game through failure is hinting that you're not playing it in an appropriate way. A rainbow-beam star cruiser (when made in earnest and not as a calculated exercise to show that it can be done) is now more evidently at the level of an SCV charge against a line of siege tanks. Those that presists are going to find a struggle but its finally because STO is acting like a video game and less like a electronic drug (where all are welcome to partake of the pixel-generated neuro-chemical high regardless of their ability to manipulate a key-board or find a workable loadout.)
Its an encouraging thing to see, and yet here we are on the forums arguing that because STO is finally living up to some decent standard of gameplay balance its ruined the game for some loosely specified group of OTHER people, which is an entirely arbitrary argument (ie. it can be made regardless of circumstance because in speaking for another group you can make them say whatever you want them to.)
Anyway, as for the PVE populations, read up on source-sink population dynamics and consider that for quite some time now we've had special event playlists with >15 second wait times and an expansion of the total number of sinks the population can inhabit (via the 3 new DR PVE's, the various difficulty permutations of those, and the new elite queues for existing PVE's.) Find an aggragate population figure if you want to talk about macro-population dynamics (ie. what the community thinks). Don't try to force micro-population dynamics [ie. what you can see in any single PVE or aggregation of single PVE's] into that role (given that other factors such as a change in the size and structure of the system is likely to affect it.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This is exactly where I'm at right now.
I used to play the queues often. The 20 man Starbase Alert was one of my favorites. After DR came out, it's now dead. Moved on to Gorn Minefield since it gave decent xp and loot. Then the xp nerf came and now that queue is dead. Decided to farm up some dil so I went to the Voth BZ. Then that got smacked so now I just run the winter event, run some doff missions, and then go play other games. Once the winter event is done, I guess I just won't log in. From my perspective, DR actually removed content that I liked to play rather than add any.
Which sucks because I really do want to play this game. There's just nothing interesting left for me to do here right now.
Mine Trap Supporter
Sorry. That''''s long winded nonsense. It's still a DPS game and players are fed up with the DR mess. All the money they get they can't fix game mechanic and machines(5+ hour maintenance that should have taken 3+ at most). Cryptic is going continue to sell big shiniessDPS oriented til it bleeds.
Anyway, to you I think you would say "Delta Rising is the BEST expansion EVER and players LOVE it" while the queues continue to go down.
Problem:
Public queues are empty (long wait times)
Why:
Normal - Poor rewards for effort
Advanced - 'Optional' too difficult for casual players to be worth hour cooldown
Some Suggestions:
Normal Rewards - make Reputation item have a chance to drop. (if it has a chance already..raise the chance to like 50%+ )
Advanced Rewards - keep guaranteed drop for Rep. item and chance to drop Salvage item
Elite Rewards - Guaranteed Rep and Salvage items with chance to drop multiple of each
Lower cool down time on Failed runs to 15mins. (or remove them out right)
Edit:
As for the the other events,
they really should give at least a Rep Marks Choice box
BTW, you guys that are hard up on Dilithium ore know you can change Marks to ore right?
are you guys not getting that 8000 refine limit or something?
Just DOFF, that is about it once Winter is over. Ever since they got rid of hourly events the majority of what I do is DOFF, with the occasional STF with my fleet. But now that my fleet mates are gone and the queues are empty I guess all that is left is to DOFF so I can build up my resources for the next grind. Of course they almost totally ruined DOFFing too a while back, so if they eventually nerf that the rest of the way then I will truly have to reason to be here.
Oh, and I don't even know why I'm event doing the Winter stuff, I already have the new ship and all my reps full. I don't need marks from the race event, so the only reason I'm there is because I enjoy the map. So it looks like I will just go back to turning over contraband... that should be the name of the next expansion... "Star Trek Online - Log in every four hours to DOFF".
I've been here since beta
While the queues continue to go down eh?
Tell me what would you expect when two event playlists have been added to a matchmaking system that has also seen considerable expansion, while maintaining a relatively consistent population. (see the steam charts. I know they're not reliable stand-ins for comprehensive statistics, especially in comparing long-term and short-term population trends since its quite apparent that they apply some smoothing parameter to long-term data. Just look at, say, Sept to Nov since the reporting method seems to be reasonably consistent within that time frame.)
Result: each individual queue has less population to work with. Is that a sign of "players HATING DR"? No of course not, its just elementary population dynamics (and before you start on a rather silly tangent, its not a sign that the LOVE DR either. Unlike you I don't try to project personal opinion into large-scale data trends, though I do like to make appriorate sure that lage-scale data trends are appropriately interpreted.)
Now of course I know that's a lot of words for you, so here's a simple summary: the forums aren't worth taking at face value. They operate according to mob social dynamics and are therefore liable to exaggerate and misrepresent facts in order to pursue that which is most satisfying to...woops there I go with the words again!
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Oh yeah
Mine Trap TOTALLY needs a reward boost.
Maybe 1500 dilithium scaling up depending on how well you do
and a chance for a Random Superior Upgrade on completion of each stage (per team).
maybe add a small chance for a 'Summon Salt Vampire' device to drop.
Baloney. There are the same handful in the queues now with the winter event as there were before it started.
About 50 in CCA as it's the only working mission.
About 15 in ISA and 15 in the other borg stfs.
5 or 10 in bug hunt and BD Normal. and 5 or 10 miscellaneous.
I guess those 20 - 30 people playing the new pve content have wiped out the other missions right?
Or the 10 in the elachi event?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
But if you buff the rewards to one queue you remove population from another. Maybe that might take people out of the CCA or Winter Event super-sinks but then again maybe not (since there's no strict control over population flow.)
As painful as it may be to think about this, a fix to the current population problems in the PVE is going to have to come from cuts. Rewards do need tweaking as well, but they can only mitigate for the problem setup in spreading out a group of people spread across a too wide a field. And we can still hold onto the special stuff via temporary playlists (though preferably with a much more frequent cycle than we currently see in the Elachi and Mirror events. Say every weekend cycle one in/out.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I'm really not going to dignify that with much of a reply. Sufficed to say that statistics isn't just a matter of looking out the window and counting how many people you see on the street in front of you. And if you're going to want to say things about large trends in the world, you should be mindful of what and isn't good stats.
You can argue that "oh, well right now is an entirely representative and unbiased sample that totally stands in for real data" but such would be entirely hollow.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
What's wrong with these stats? They come from looking at the queues for the past 6 weeks every day at the same time and counting.
It may be comforting to deny the truth but the truth is out there!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Unless you can calculate a standard deviation (not that you should do that, but you should be able to with this type of data) that's just a collection of out-the-window glances (and not as a matter of fact much better). Nice that you kept the time of day standardized but your short-term experimental design needs work (because you'll note that my point was that SEVERAL factors have been affecting PVE queues, INCLUDING the events but ALSO including the DR add-ons without subtractions.)
In any case, its not truth. Its just a supposition that tries to stand in for real data in order to contradict a reasonable argument without, mind you, approaching that reason (except from the stand point of nya-uh, population dynamics don't matter. Its all about DR=fail.) You can do better!
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I've noticed the crowds in the winter event seem to be thinner than last year, and certainly much less than the summer event.
With regard to the STFs, I refuse to play them. They're not fun... And they're not worth my time.
I'm sure a lot of guys will tell me that I have to adapt, I'm lazy, stupid, need better gear, etc. My response is this - no I don't. I just won't play them. I suspect this view is shared by a large portion of the player base.
Glad you agree with me, but you wrote your post as if you didn't read mine:
Yes the game has some elite players, but I would go so far to say that Pre -DR most average players did not do very much DPS. When I would pug for fun most of the time the other four guys usually ended up at the respawn point many times.
It's still a fact 75% of all people don't like chnage, it was not smart to chnage everything.
The wiser move would have been to make no changes, but it add epic queues and level 60 zones.
I guess I'm wrong because everyone thinks this is the best expansion ever as it's on everyone's signatures now.😀
The thing is there was no reason to consider this before Oct 14. You join a 5 person queue. Click - you're playing in under 30 seconds. The only time I've been observing and counting is the past 6 weeks. The first 2 post expansion were spent slowly enjoying the Delta missions.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yeah people would like better rewards, but if people dont even have a hope of completing something for the things like processors or materials they wont be wasting their time getting what rewards do exist.
So I like many continue not to be bothered because unless I am after fleet marks I dont really need anything else out of them at the moment and since I am not doing them for "fun" because being failed by trolls or just lack of a team with any dps at all is inherently not fun.
They needed to leave the q's as they were and add a third option that was "elite" but they chose to do something else.
Throwing insults really!!! That's your response so I can't take your response as value.
The point is this - The queues were full before the expansion. Now they're empty.
They change they made have not been embraced by the player base. If they want them to be part of the experience, they need to make significant changes to draw players back in.
I'm not sure I ever heard the logic of adjusting all the queues (and adding mandatory optionals) - why didn't they just add the super-elite queues? Maybe someone could educate me?
It's no secret that I feel my play time is too limited to sit around and do nothing waiting for a queue to start.
About the only time I ever join a queue is when MI or CC are running with their special rewards because I know that queue is going to pop reasonably soon and because they're reasonably short and sweet with a halfway decent PUG.
I also prefer to join a queue when I can play together with my sons. That's 3 players... but I need 5 or more for the queue. Still no guarantee that queue is going to pop.
And I want to play Normal, while all of the serious players are queueing up for Advanced because the rewards they want aren't on Normal.
Picky? Yes. But I'm playing on my terms or not at all.
It's not worth chasing after numerical rewards I can gain in other ways, or rewards that aren't there (in Normal) to spend excessive time on something that might fail. As long as there are other ways to enjoy the game, and the queued events are what they are, I won't be in 'em.
Things that would draw me in more often:
Featured PvE Queues (Normal and Advanced):
A little extra reward would be enough to induce players to gravitate to certain queues so that they are always full. By rotating which queues get extra rewards, it would keep things fresh and keep the queues popping.
More Flexible Teaming:
Being able to start a queue with less than the normal 5-man team, preferably with scaling mobs and rewards to compensate for fewer players.
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Yep, and all the elite DPSer arguments to the contrary will not change this.
actually the original blog write up about the q revamp was that they were going to just basically be adding a third option (elites) so that casuals could get a bit of good loot and players who wanted more of a challenge would have one.
what did happen was there were a couple of elites added (not many but you need to be level 60 to see them) and the advanced had their optionals turned into mandatories with many of them failing and giving no reward within under a minute. Meaning you could q potentially for hours join fail in under 60 seconds and then be locked out with a time penalty resulting in a gigantic waste of time lol so why bother q'ing in the first place.
Add to that there are people who join the q's to purposely fail it on the first objective since they basicaly introduced a griefing mechanic into the q system.. then again why bother lol
wow, talk about rose colored glasses, there were plenty of empty ques pre-DR
in fact almost all the ques that are empty now, were just as empty back then
as far as I've seen, typical player habits haven't changed much
Yep, I misread your post.
Apologies.
OK maybe "Full" isn't accurate - how about substantially more populated. Happy now?
- substantially, then yes
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius