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Another patch...Another NERF...this time Dyson Battlezone?

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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    swatop wrote: »
    when players get only 5dil for capturing zones... what motivations do they have to actually playing the battlezone and capturing the zones now?

    they could jump zones and simply kill the vrex to get a reward (eventhough its smaller than before).


    the done changes have not improved anything... not for cappers not for leechers

    I get 90 dil for capturing a zone. I get 5 dil for tagging and running.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Yeah, yeah. I know. You can spend 45 seconds in the battlezone and walk away with 3 months worth of dil and only firing your weapon 3 times - on a bad day - because you are just that l33t.

    No one believes you, nor should they.

    In the real world, I would seriously hate to be a *new* player facing this outright malice from the devs and their mindless bean-counter masters. They really have gone off the deep end. When is their contract with CBS up? Might be safe to return after the game changes hands...
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    raeat wrote: »
    Yeah, yeah. I know. You can spend 45 seconds in the battlezone and walk away with 3 months worth of dil and only firing your weapon 3 times - on a bad day - because you are just that l33t.

    No one believes you, nor should they.

    In the real world, I would seriously hate to be a *new* player facing this outright malice from the devs and their mindless bean-counter masters. They really have gone off the deep end. When is their contract with CBS up? Might be safe to return after the game changes hands...
    The game belongs to Cryptic. Only the use of Star Trek is under license. If the "contract is up", STO is gone forever. No take-backs, refunds, improvements, last-minute patches. Just gone. The way of Star Wars Galaxies and the Dodo. It would be pining for the fjords, meeting its maker.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • mindshadow999mindshadow999 Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    raeat wrote: »
    In the real world, I would seriously hate to be a *new* player facing <etc etc>

    *sigh*

    The busted participation metric at capture points is obviously a bug. It's not helpful to confuse deliberate design choices with actual errors, and doing so makes it more likely that those errors will not be addressed.
  • obainobain Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    A greeting from the German Comunity!

    Bearing in mind here the general Statement, the wiser gives in, so would that mean for the Cryptic and PWE Wall, against which we repeatedly run, that a Potato which we reject against this wall,


    Here again the clear indication for Cryptic and PWE - if you do not reverses these waste and you finally based on the customers - then I'll be here a revolt against you that instigate the investor is your anni mize this to act as a seller.

    You will nomore and nowhere find a hiding place in front of this from you created problem - no matter where and at which trade fair and convention you will be - your customers will be ther and they will demand that you act customer oriented finally back.

    I've done this successfully before in other F2P games, you were just another company that has to bow his haed about his bad press.

    Finally comes to acting in the sense of your customers then they give also likey to continue your money on your Game. Or live with the consequences of your "customer loyalty policy".

    ENOUGH FINAL!

    ( Bedenkt man hier die allgemein g
  • crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    viper1422 wrote: »
    Okay...so I'm extremely frustrated from my run on Dyson Ground. I know the "points" system has been changed, but here's how it affected me and my teammates.

    At each Omega Point, only one person would receive credit for the point even though we had a full team of 5 present and participating at the start and all the way through the capturing of the point. At one of the points I started it, and only received 5 dil for my troubles.

    At Capture Points, even if someone had stepped in just after it began, they received only 5 dil for completing the point with the team.

    I understand the whole tag-and-run for the V-Rex portion is now not do-able, but it's nearly impossible to get to all 3 V-Rexes and get the full reward. I actually made it to a 3rd while running with my team tonight and fired a couple of volleys before it died and still only received 5 dil and no credit.

    I'm by no means trying to leech. I'm by no means trying to circumvent the system. I just want to capture points and earn what's due to me. I want to be able to help others earn their due.

    As it stands right now, all incentive to cooperate and help others is completely gone. Please revisit this "adjustment" or put it back the way it was until a fix can be created after the holidays.

    Thank you!

    -A Concerned, dedicated Lifer

    Another patch...another NERF...whats next...Defera? Instead of nerfing game to death why dont the FIX defera that has been broken since day 1. One can really see when the game is unbalanced and instead of fixing what's BROKEN....they just add more insult to injury to the game.
    DUwNP.gif

  • commanderandercommanderander Member Posts: 78 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2014
    Hi everyone,

    I will investigate issues with people not getting rewards for properly participating in a point.

    If you are experiencing this issue, the following would be helpful:

    - Which point were you on? (Cap, Gen, Artillery, and which section)
    - What exactly were you doing?
    - How long were you there?
    - Screenshot of your score
    Sean "Commander Ander" McCann - Content Designer
  • obainobain Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hi everyone,

    I will investigate issues with people not getting rewards for properly participating in a point.

    If you are experiencing this issue, the following would be helpful:

    - Which point were you on? (Cap, Gen, Artillery, and which section)
    - What exactly were you doing?
    - How long were you there?
    - Screenshot of your score

    I can tell it you from Yesterday.

    I have to do my Dalys in the Park, i save one Cap and i help to save one Gen that have be done for 2/3.
    My reward is only for that one Cap, that one Gen dos not give me the secend Point of the Voot.

    After that i am going to attak all 3 Big Rex, the first 2 Rex i hit down the Shilds fom 100% to 75 - 60%, the 3 Rex will be killd.

    Then the 2 first Rex will bi Killd without me becous ter to much Peopel on the Maps.

    My Reward is - 1800 Dill for all 3 Silos, 720 dill for the 3 Rex, 10 Dill for the 1 and 2 Rex, 1440 Dill for killing 40 Voot in time. NO REWARD for Saving 2 VootPoints, becouse 1 Vootpoint has not be counted.

    My totaly Reward are 3970 Dill - bevor the Patsh my Reward will be 5500 - 8000 Dill - so after that Patsh i Loos 50% of my Dill Reward.

    If i now will have the same Reward i musst Play the Zone 3 - 4 Timies with every Char - or if it better to understand now i musst Play the Zone 5 - 10 hours to have the same Reward.

    So Sorry but it is a Game - and in a Game i will have Fun and not a 2 Work.

    And one Thing more wy we cant buy the Live Time abbo not in the Shop or with Paysavecards - in Germany not everyone have a Kreditcard like Visa or Mastercard ord Diners - if we have it in the Shop much more Pepol will buy it!

    So Please - come back to your costumers - help us to spend Mony in your Game - at the Moment your on the wrong way!
  • lonestar1017lonestar1017 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I just ran in to assist someone at the outskirts, Generator point nearest to the transporter. About halfway complete. I activated the last of the consoles. Remained for the completion of that area. Took out as many enemies as my boffs and I could target. At the end, 5 dilith, no marks and no credit towards secure voth points. The first area I took the communications location closest to transporter I did 100% solo, got full credit.

    I have started areas where others have joined to assist, and have earned 5 dilith no marks no credit towards completion.

    On one Generator point I started, activated all consoles and the speed boost, work through to the end. Because someone assisted, I received 5 dilith no marks no completion credit.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Yep nerf something else that doesn't work err I mean working as intended.
  • darkhorse281darkhorse281 Member Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hi everyone,

    I will investigate issues with people not getting rewards for properly participating in a point.

    If you are experiencing this issue, the following would be helpful:

    - Which point were you on? (Cap, Gen, Artillery, and which section)
    - What exactly were you doing?
    - How long were you there?
    - Screenshot of your score

    I'll believe it when I see it, the track record for your team lately is less than bad.

    Arrive at capture point within 30 seconds of somebody in front of you and you get 5dil no marks, penalized for staying and killing 1st dino by giving 5 dil even though 2nd dino is at half health. In team setting it's a TRIBBLE shoot as to who gets rewards and who doesn't hell I activated the console to restart the device moving killed stuff from beginning to end and still get 5 dil no marks. I saw 2 dino's fail last night I have NEVER seen that. You have the explanations you just don't want to hear it. Fix Dyson or I and many more will walk away from this game.

    YOU ARE NOT OUR EMPLOYERS, WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS, asking us to do more for less is a very employer thing to do. I'll say it again its bad for ther game when the forum is more interesting.
  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hi everyone,

    I will investigate issues with people not getting rewards for properly participating in a point.

    If you are experiencing this issue, the following would be helpful:

    - Which point were you on? (Cap, Gen, Artillery, and which section)
    - What exactly were you doing?
    - How long were you there?
    - Screenshot of your score

    I will go cause the errors I know of and post screenshots. Its the points where you have to trigger something with an interaction like the generators. (the rest seemed fine to me)

    Anyhow since I was going to run through dyson with one guy this evening I can post results in this thread I guess.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I don't have the know-how to do it, but what if some of you made videos of what you are doing and linked them to commanderander? That way he can not only see what the final score is, but see the bad behavior in action and exactly what you and other players are doing that the game is not properly registering.

    Failing a fix, I would suggest a rollback to prior values on everything in the Dyson BZ.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    My problem has been with the generators. I've had no trouble with artillery and I haven't tried a capture point.

    It is now better to solo every cap which is wrong. I solo everything when I can anyway - partly because I'm able to, partly to claim all the command points for myself and partly because the map finishes faster - but I never purposely avoided helping others that got to a zone before me.

    Now I guess I will avoid helping others. Now I will resent people butting in when I'm capping. And if I run to a zone and see other people got there before me it's best I make them deal with everything themselves and run to another zone I can solo. That is completely opposite of how a battlezone should work. It discourages teamwork which is a big "wtf".

    The biggest issue is the fact that there was nothing wrong with how points were awarded before. Maps ended 100% successfully all the time and I never resented other people helping cap a zone. So long as I started on a newly spawned map I could get my 5 caps and 3 dinos and get the full reward.

    And by the way, dino tagging is not gone. I can still do it so long as I stick around for more than a few seconds. The only way to remove dino tagging is to make the reward not dependent on how many dinos are tagged. (IE full reward so long as all three dinos are killed and you took part in killing at least one of them, plus 5 caps of course).That's it.
  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    okay i just did a complete run .. *cough* i would like to suggest it has to do with people who are grouped possibly with the group not being in the same objective

    I just did a map and was not grouped and didn't touch any of the things on artilery or generators or anything that required you to "f to interact" and got full 90 dilithium etc. The only time I got 5 was on one dino that was down below 1/4 health when I got to it. So basically it seems to work for you if you remain ungrouped 100% of the time

    I suggest trying this while grouped and having people grouped and taking more then one point in the group so that people are not near each other etc.

    Just reading back this is when it seems to happen.

    when bug hunting the cause needs to be reproducable

    So yeah since i got no issue while ungrouped this is my guess.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Yeah, my feedback I posted was from when I was in a team. For part of the run, I was together with two other players, for other parts (when I started getting methodical about it), I was still teamed with one player but we were split up hitting different points about half the time, I'd estimate.

    Thanks for looking into this some more :)

    One of my alts is getting a bit low on dilithium, so I'll try to get him there to do a run or two solo in the next couple days. I'll take screencaps of the points' progress when I step on them and the rewards I get from them when I do.
  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Yeah, my feedback I posted was from when I was in a team. For part of the run, I was together with two other players, for other parts (when I started getting methodical about it), I was still teamed with one player but we were split up hitting different points about half the time, I'd estimate.

    Thanks for looking into this some more :)

    No problem you had some good info's maybe tonight see if you can do this with a team and purposely go off on your own to take a point and ask them not to help you and see what happens. This would be my guess lets hope that's it then they know where too look :)
  • uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ummax wrote: »
    okay i just did a complete run .. *cough* i would like to suggest it has to do with people who are grouped possibly with the group not being in the same objective

    I just did a map and was not grouped and didn't touch any of the things on artilery or generators or anything that required you to "f to interact" and got full 90 dilithium etc. The only time I got 5 was on one dino that was down below 1/4 health when I got to it. So basically it seems to work for you if you remain ungrouped 100% of the time

    I suggest trying this while grouped and having people grouped and taking more then one point in the group so that people are not near each other etc.

    Just reading back this is when it seems to happen.

    when bug hunting the cause needs to be reproducable

    So yeah since i got no issue while ungrouped this is my guess.

    I only solo and have the issue, so that's not it. It's the way points are awarded that's messed up. I wish I could figure out a reason other than not clicking any interacts, because so far it's been when I get to a zone after someone else and just shoot the mobs, not clicking anything, that it fails to give me credit for the cap.
  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I get this in undine space battlezone from time to time and I know they did the adjustment there awhile back and now are just applying it to the ground zone. This usually happens to me as a result of time dilation (lag) I just ignore it. I dont know how frequent it is for you in dyson but its possible that it may not be fixable.

    I do tend to pick servers that are lowish on population when starting a run for obvious reasons i want a map that is not half done lol unless I am just looking to complete part of a daily or something for the most part i pick a low population map. I know many others do the opposite but I think that is because they just want to kill dino's at the end or something.
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Managed to tag all 3 dinos a couple of times now and although i got the 720 dil and 30 marks for each dino. Max dil i got was 3250 with 3rd dino tag. Not sure if this was nerfed as pre-changes this and capturing 5 points would reward me with the 3rd dino tag 5400 dil.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ummax wrote: »
    I get this in undine space battlezone from time to time and I know they did the adjustment there awhile back and now are just applying it to the ground zone. This usually happens to me as a result of time dilation (lag) I just ignore it. I dont know how frequent it is for you in dyson but its possible that it may not be fixable.

    The main difference I have observed on the Undine BZ is that no equivalent to tagging appears to exist. The only way to get all of the PK's down below 50% appears to be for all of the PK's to get mobbed by the whole instance, one at a time. Meaning almost everyone contributes for at least 50% of the battle against each PK. That seems to avoid problems with not getting credit for what you did against each PK as opposed to the V-Rexes.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • commanderandercommanderander Member Posts: 78 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2014
    Thanks for the information, everyone.

    I've tracked down the issue that's causing the problem with people not getting the proper rewards from points.

    Those of you who mentioned something to do with teams were partially correct; the issue could happen to anyone, but it seemed to happen at a higher frequency when several people were at a point.

    I'll be working on a fix for this today. My hope is that you will all see this fix on Thursday, but I can't guarantee that in the event that something goes wrong or we find something else about this.

    I'll keep you guys informed if it looks like this won't be in for Thursday's patch.
    Sean "Commander Ander" McCann - Content Designer
  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    gulberat wrote: »
    The main difference I have observed on the Undine BZ is that no equivalent to tagging appears to exist. The only way to get all of the PK's down below 50% appears to be for all of the PK's to get mobbed by the whole instance, one at a time. Meaning almost everyone contributes for at least 50% of the battle against each PK. That seems to avoid problems with not getting credit for what you did against each PK as opposed to the V-Rexes.
    I have seen a few people tag in undine its actually pretty easy because the planet killers can't be brought below 50% without removing the protective bubble. I dont do it though but there are others that do. It actually is not hard now with my t6 ship or t5u ship do take a planet killer down with 3 or 4 others in similar ships. Its not possible with new players to do this but I never stop at the 50% i just dps it down. I think some people hate me for it, but I hate this tagging and running between things with a passion. :P
    Thanks for the information, everyone.

    I've tracked down the issue that's causing the problem with people not getting the proper rewards from points.

    Those of you who mentioned something to do with teams were partially correct; the issue could happen to anyone, but it seemed to happen at a higher frequency when several people were at a point.

    I'll be working on a fix for this today. My hope is that you will all see this fix on Thursday, but I can't guarantee that in the event that something goes wrong or we find something else about this.

    I'll keep you guys informed if it looks like this won't be in for Thursday's patch.

    thank you much for this then everyone can go back to being happy :D
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Thanks for the information, everyone.

    I've tracked down the issue that's causing the problem with people not getting the proper rewards from points.

    Those of you who mentioned something to do with teams were partially correct; the issue could happen to anyone, but it seemed to happen at a higher frequency when several people were at a point.

    I'll be working on a fix for this today. My hope is that you will all see this fix on Thursday, but I can't guarantee that in the event that something goes wrong or we find something else about this.

    I'll keep you guys informed if it looks like this won't be in for Thursday's patch.

    Thanks for keeping us up to date and especially for offering to keep us notified if it doesn't make your expected ETA.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Thanks for the information, everyone.

    Thanks for the fix. :)
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,694 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Thanks for the information, everyone.

    I've tracked down the issue that's causing the problem with people not getting the proper rewards from points.

    Those of you who mentioned something to do with teams were partially correct; the issue could happen to anyone, but it seemed to happen at a higher frequency when several people were at a point.

    I'll be working on a fix for this today. My hope is that you will all see this fix on Thursday, but I can't guarantee that in the event that something goes wrong or we find something else about this.

    I'll keep you guys informed if it looks like this won't be in for Thursday's patch.


    Thanks! this is all it really takes to help the relations between the community and the Devs.

    at least we know it's being looked at.
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The night I posted the Customer Relations section of my review I was considering including this but at the time it was only one post. Now that I have seen more, I called it out in that thread. This is a good example of how communication should be. Admittedly after getting burned so many times people will be watching for actions--or at least the promised updates but this is one of the most positive moves so far that I have seen in a while. :)

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I'm sure it will be fixed with the same expertise the city Defera hard mission was - so that it won't work at all. Maybe the Voth will turn friendly now and sabotage the mission, too.

    Too bad the devs caved to the whiners and screwed everyone else. But that's servicing divide and conquer. As a result I likely will not be assisting with points anymore anyway, even if by some miracle a real fix (as in repair, not as in neuter) happens.
  • mindshadow999mindshadow999 Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Thanks for the information, everyone.

    I've tracked down the issue that's causing the problem with people not getting the proper rewards from points.

    Yay! Thanks for staying on top of it.
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    So i'm wondering...


    Are these changes meant to prevent players from tagging each V-Rex and getting full credit while barely contributing anything (at least to the first two V-Rex they tag and run from)? I actually didnt notice this before this thread but now that i'm paying attention i see people doing it.

    Why not just force people to fight each of the 3 V-Rex in a set order? that way people wont feel the need to play tag. You would think that forcing people to do 3 V-Rexes in a set order wouldnt be needed. But you cant expect pugs/free for all people in a BZ to coordinate or follow a set attack sequence on their own. Because #1 they are pugs and we all know how most of them act. And #2 the chat system isnt set up for cooperative gameplay. One person says "go to the city" and people in 20 different Dyson BZ instances, all in varios stages of progression say "huh". IMO it would be better (for the players) if upon V-Rex activation one of them spawns at a random location-city, park or outskirts. Then once it is defeated then the next V-Rex spawns at either park/outskirts and people move to it. Then once that one is defeated then last one spawns at the last location and everyone moves to it. Everyone has to run from A-B-C, everyone has to contribute, if you leave early to try and "beat the crowd" to the next point then you get no credit. It's better for the players because everyone gets full rewards for full participation.
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