I think, but I'm not sure, that you're trying to say that there will never be enough players with enough of the same skills at the same level at the same time to ever have some sort of balanced pvp. I'm not even sure. No matter. Let me state my position a different way.
It is very common when a game expands that immediately upon experiencing the additions the players find that there are huge power gaps between classes and that these gaps may affect the entire game experience up to that point.
And the answer is always that the DEVS balance for the endgame.
I'm not saying that STO will be successful at this. I'm not saying I know for a fact that they're really good at this. I'm saying we can't KNOW until we get enough people to the end. So we should get to the end and work on it then.
And if your stance is that we'll NEVER get enough people to the end because even if we do STO will add something else and TRIBBLE it all up, or it will never work out, or something else entirely that doesn't even matter for one very important reason. It's in the future.
And you don't know. And neither do I. Until we get there.
In DR some of the skills and items are so silly that most people just needs to equip the skill or item without even considdering anything else but using the new "stuffs". And by doing this you can already have the upperhand...
In earlyer powercreeps you needed to put atleast somewhat of an effort into your build and at the same time learn to fly it. As an example i would like to mention the particle generator trait.. its insane, its way OP imo.. but you have to sacrifice console-slots and vital sci boff slots to make use of it properly... And there where valid counters that could be applied towards this with either gear/skills or even certain tactics..
Surgical strikes 3 + viral torp.. which is imo the biggest balance issue atm, just needs to be equipped.. and you could put both of these on your bindings for spacebar and just spam them.. im not saying its the best approach. far from it.. but with these 2 skills you would become fairly deadly in pvp.. even against seasoned veterans.
And not to be arrogant nor trying to insult anyone with saying this.. but people that had perhaps abit above avarage pvp skills, are the only one left in ker'rat "exploiting" these 2 overpowered skills s much as they can.. and at the same time defending the skills saying they are not OP comparing it to vapers...
Exploiting is a strong word.. and im sorry to use it in this fasion.. because its not exploiting per say... but when i setup my intel ship with surgical strikes 3.. it really felt like i was exploiting... Also vapers needs to actually sacrifice alot to be able to have a successful vaper build.. it also require some practice, and be able to read situations to time their assault... but like i said earlyer in the post.. with surgical strikes and viral you just need to equip it. and spam it.. and yeah.. holey cheezus and such..
I really understand those people though.. been strugling a long time to be able to get to the point of being able to compete in ker'rat.. to for once having the edge and killing people left and right.. i guess its a whole lot of fun..... but for how long? Ker'rat is dead, queues are almost never popping... people are saying that ohh.. just wait people will return after they have grindied the stuffs they wants... but its not whats happening here.. i have tons of people on my friendslist. where 90% are playing just to pvp... used to be 50+ players in that list daily.. now there are like 5-10 people online daily.. and most of the people i talk to are just saying that they dont bother anymore.. its boring, the diversity is gone, its unbalanced... they feel dirty using the t6 intel stuff...and you know what? I agree with them...
"Better were the days when mastery o' space came not from bargains struck with eldritch creatures... but from the sweat of a man's brow and the strength of his back alone. Ye all know thi's to be true!"
There are folks that will want to be 30/30 Intel and 15/15 Pilot. I'd like to have other Starship Traits available...folks will want to have a selection of Starship Traits available. Some folks might actually want the Delta Shields and need T5 Delta. How many folks will want to Epic-14 everything? How many folks will want Epic-14 of multiple sets so they can do different builds? How many folks will want everything on multiple toons? What about folks still working at their R&D?
Yeah, there are folks that hit up all 60 specialization points already...there are folks that haven't even got halfway to level 60 yet.
Prior to Delta Rising/R&D - using sponsorship tokens how long would it take to get a new toon ready to go? With DR, how long does it take to get an old toon ready to go?
So when that next set of Captain Specializations happens...are folks going to head off into the PVE grind again if it's something better? Would it just be like a new Rep being added? Well, no...cause you do your daily for that and then do whatever. With the specializations...you grind, you grind, you grind...
With Geko "fixing" the power creep with Delta Rising, ahem, the gap between a fresh level capped toon and an endgame toon...is just mind-boggling.
So while I do not know what the future holds...one can look at the now as the direction Cryptic is heading, no?
its boring, the diversity is gone, its unbalanced... they feel dirty using the t6 intel stuff...and you know what? I agree with them...
Actually, no.
Diversity is not gone. People still did not accept that their t5 ships are worse then t6 which is completely understandable. Traits are what is pushing people in using TBR builds, viral torps etc.
Only problems I see are some OP traits and 1 straight up annoying trait- Failsafe scrambler - because it makes that ugly as fk flash.
Ships are good, can be fought, can be setup x different ways with just combining intel/tac/sci skills. Any Intel ship in itself is not so OP when compared to other t6 ships, or popular t5/U ships.
Problem is that people are comparing their t5 lvl 50+ builds to t6 lvl 110 builds.
Which is devoid of any reason.
Same thing was when queues were dominated by lobi Galors, Bugs and Recluses. Then Wells, more Bugs and more Recluses. Then Palisades, Xindi etc...
There is always big gap until you get stuff other people have in any game.
Expecting to compete with a guy that is 60levels above you by sheer "skill" is just unreasonable.
And even that can be done in a team like you will see today in my new video. 1on1 no way.
Kerrat and 1v1 games are not a good examples of what is happening in team PvP. They never were.
Actually yes. That is what people that used to be online on my friendslist are saying... and actually yes.. i do agree with them.
And the truth is still that 5/6 of the people that i used to have alot of fun with and was online on a daily basis are not there anymore.. and most of these people have already maxed out anything that can be maxed out.. tried the new stuff.. and felt dirty...
You can't defend being able to do 70-80k ****s with a dhc towards a player.. thats what i achieved when i tested surgical strike 3 also having the same cooldown as other tactical weapon abilities... it would be like strapping someone in a chair and pouring melted stale cheeze down their throats...
And having something like viral torpedo trait that disables without any chance of removing that debuff.. nor hitting any skills that can make you go out of range... you cant defend that either.
It doesnt matter if its in an arena environment or an open space environment.. it still smells like melted stale cheeze to me.
I understand that people wants to win, but at what cost.. and how much fun is it to win, when you end up being the only participants left?
"Better were the days when mastery o' space came not from bargains struck with eldritch creatures... but from the sweat of a man's brow and the strength of his back alone. Ye all know thi's to be true!"
Actually yes. That is what people that used to be online on my friendslist are saying... and actually yes.. i do agree with them.
And the truth is still that 5/6 of the people that i used to have alot of fun with and was online on a daily basis are not there anymore.. and most of these people have already maxed out anything that can be maxed out.. tried the new stuff.. and felt dirty...
You can't defend being able to do 70-80k ****s with a dhc towards a player.. thats what i achieved when i tested surgical strike 3 also having the same cooldown as other tactical weapon abilities... it would be like strapping someone in a chair and pouring melted stale cheeze down their throats...
And having something like viral torpedo trait that disables without any chance of removing that debuff.. nor hitting any skills that can make you go out of range... you cant defend that either.
It doesnt matter if its in an arena environment or an open space environment.. it still smells like melted stale cheeze to me.
I understand that people wants to win, but at what cost.. and how much fun is it to win, when you end up being the only participants left?
That's what I don't get: how is it fun to curbstomp a defenseless ship? I took my Mobius into Kerrat about a wek ago, with its same old pre-DR build (I haven't gotten anything from DR, nor upgraded anything). There were two KDF guys flying around the fed spawn, one in a T6 ship. The T6 used his space magic clickies to completely immobilize me while I had APO and PH running, while his buddy killed me straight through my shields.
I left after a few minutes, it just wasn't fun being able to do nothing at all.
You can't defend being able to do 70-80k ****s with a dhc towards a player.. thats what i achieved when i tested surgical strike 3 also having the same cooldown as other tactical weapon abilities... it would be like strapping someone in a chair and pouring melted stale cheeze down their throats...
Do you honestly feel that you would be able to do that vs lvl 110 player in t6 ship and consistently?
because, like i said, comparing maxed out ship/toon vs t5/lvl 50-60 guys is just not valid comparison.
Don't know what did you play, kerrat gang banging, 1v1 or team arena, but from 20 or so games i did with mixed teams last days, there were no such situations.
And what's more SS is bugged, still does only phaser damage.
I will agree only on TBR which is almost on season5 level of broken and some traits.
Do you honestly feel that you would be able to do that vs lvl 110 player in t6 ship and consistently?
because, like i said, comparing maxed out ship/toon vs t5/lvl 50-60 guys is just not valid comparison.
Don't know what did you play, kerrat gang banging, 1v1 or team arena, but from 20 or so games i did with mixed teams last days, there were no such situations.
And what's more SS is bugged, still does only phaser damage.
I will agree only on TBR which is almost on season5 level of broken and some traits.
You can get 35-40k with limited buffs/debuffs. Work in some debuffs from other players, have a GDF going, and it can get downright silly. Heck, even with the wrong consoles because of the Phaser bug you can get 15-20k+ with limited buffs/debuffs.
It's ambush action with flanking...not going to see those numbers uncloaked shooting somebody in the face. Well, maybe with enough stacked debuffs. It's like the Iso Cannon, where the raw damage might only be a 25-30k crit but with debuffs it's hitting for 50-60k+.
Have to keep in mind with the greyed bars - if they didn't already have TT up, they're not putting it up - so unless somebody tosses them a TT, they're going to be eating the FoMM on top of anything else. Work in some Delta Rep trait action with some Intel Fleet...
You get a decent selection of buffs and debuffs going, and well - I feel bad for some of the folks that have popped me...cause it's just over so fast, 80-100k raw hull where 40-50% DR disappears to the debuffs...and it's just over so fast.
Have to remember how much of all this stuff was designed for the Elite PVE content and the HP those mobs have. We have lower hull because of the abilities we can use...but if everybody's looking at greyed bars, nobody's using them on themselves or their team and - well - it's just over so fast.
one can look at the now as the direction Cryptic is heading, no?
You're right, you can't. I think. Or does it really matter? We can be pretty sure about what we may do as individuals. And you might find that you surprise yourself.
Each day that I dress myself I'm a bit shocked.
You simply can't know.
It DOES suck that the PVP wall is now FIRMLY behind $$$ In a way that it never was before. Mastery is just far too powerful. Now THAT is a specific, concrete, and measurable concern that we can address. We may not be happy with the outcome, but no one can DENY the facts in that situation.
It doesn't do any good to discuss why we know PVP and/or STO in general will be coming to an end.
Please, let no one that believes that waste one more breath on this game. Move on, be happy, there are other things to do and I'm assured you will all find something to enjoy.
For those that think there are problems that need addressing in STO and PVP, I once again encourage you all to make yourself heard in bug reports and feedback in the appropriate part of the forums.
Those are the only two rational courses of action to take.
And then there is this.
And only Cannons and the EPW are bugged for SS. Last I checked yesterday. Beams (like those AP bad boys) do the correct damage.
And yes it is reported. Responded. Not fixed. But hey we did our part.
And only Cannons and the EPW are bugged for SS. Last I checked yesterday. Beams (like those AP bad boys) do the correct damage.
Sorry, am I missing something? SS as in Scramble Sensors? Or OSS (Override Subsystem Safeties)?
edit: Ah fack, forgot the title name. Duh! :P
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Comments
In DR some of the skills and items are so silly that most people just needs to equip the skill or item without even considdering anything else but using the new "stuffs". And by doing this you can already have the upperhand...
In earlyer powercreeps you needed to put atleast somewhat of an effort into your build and at the same time learn to fly it. As an example i would like to mention the particle generator trait.. its insane, its way OP imo.. but you have to sacrifice console-slots and vital sci boff slots to make use of it properly... And there where valid counters that could be applied towards this with either gear/skills or even certain tactics..
Surgical strikes 3 + viral torp.. which is imo the biggest balance issue atm, just needs to be equipped.. and you could put both of these on your bindings for spacebar and just spam them.. im not saying its the best approach. far from it.. but with these 2 skills you would become fairly deadly in pvp.. even against seasoned veterans.
And not to be arrogant nor trying to insult anyone with saying this.. but people that had perhaps abit above avarage pvp skills, are the only one left in ker'rat "exploiting" these 2 overpowered skills s much as they can.. and at the same time defending the skills saying they are not OP comparing it to vapers...
Exploiting is a strong word.. and im sorry to use it in this fasion.. because its not exploiting per say... but when i setup my intel ship with surgical strikes 3.. it really felt like i was exploiting... Also vapers needs to actually sacrifice alot to be able to have a successful vaper build.. it also require some practice, and be able to read situations to time their assault... but like i said earlyer in the post.. with surgical strikes and viral you just need to equip it. and spam it.. and yeah.. holey cheezus and such..
I really understand those people though.. been strugling a long time to be able to get to the point of being able to compete in ker'rat.. to for once having the edge and killing people left and right.. i guess its a whole lot of fun..... but for how long? Ker'rat is dead, queues are almost never popping... people are saying that ohh.. just wait people will return after they have grindied the stuffs they wants... but its not whats happening here.. i have tons of people on my friendslist. where 90% are playing just to pvp... used to be 50+ players in that list daily.. now there are like 5-10 people online daily.. and most of the people i talk to are just saying that they dont bother anymore.. its boring, the diversity is gone, its unbalanced... they feel dirty using the t6 intel stuff...and you know what? I agree with them...
This is a rough view of where my guy is with just the build he's flying right now...
18/30 Intelligence Officer: +11% Defense
8/15 Pilot: +18% Turn
Load Viral Warhead
Partners in Arms
Reciprocity
Predictive Algorithms (first one, not the Improved one)
T5 Counter-Command, Dyson, New Rom, Nukara, Omega
T4 Delta
12 Beams
12 Science
12 Projectiles
11 Engineering
4x Epic-14
1x UR-13
4x VR-13
2x R-13
3x UR-12
7x VR-12
2x Epic-U
There are folks that will want to be 30/30 Intel and 15/15 Pilot. I'd like to have other Starship Traits available...folks will want to have a selection of Starship Traits available. Some folks might actually want the Delta Shields and need T5 Delta. How many folks will want to Epic-14 everything? How many folks will want Epic-14 of multiple sets so they can do different builds? How many folks will want everything on multiple toons? What about folks still working at their R&D?
Yeah, there are folks that hit up all 60 specialization points already...there are folks that haven't even got halfway to level 60 yet.
Prior to Delta Rising/R&D - using sponsorship tokens how long would it take to get a new toon ready to go? With DR, how long does it take to get an old toon ready to go?
So when that next set of Captain Specializations happens...are folks going to head off into the PVE grind again if it's something better? Would it just be like a new Rep being added? Well, no...cause you do your daily for that and then do whatever. With the specializations...you grind, you grind, you grind...
With Geko "fixing" the power creep with Delta Rising, ahem, the gap between a fresh level capped toon and an endgame toon...is just mind-boggling.
So while I do not know what the future holds...one can look at the now as the direction Cryptic is heading, no?
Actually, no.
Diversity is not gone. People still did not accept that their t5 ships are worse then t6 which is completely understandable. Traits are what is pushing people in using TBR builds, viral torps etc.
Only problems I see are some OP traits and 1 straight up annoying trait- Failsafe scrambler - because it makes that ugly as fk flash.
Ships are good, can be fought, can be setup x different ways with just combining intel/tac/sci skills. Any Intel ship in itself is not so OP when compared to other t6 ships, or popular t5/U ships.
Problem is that people are comparing their t5 lvl 50+ builds to t6 lvl 110 builds.
Which is devoid of any reason.
Same thing was when queues were dominated by lobi Galors, Bugs and Recluses. Then Wells, more Bugs and more Recluses. Then Palisades, Xindi etc...
There is always big gap until you get stuff other people have in any game.
Expecting to compete with a guy that is 60levels above you by sheer "skill" is just unreasonable.
And even that can be done in a team like you will see today in my new video. 1on1 no way.
Kerrat and 1v1 games are not a good examples of what is happening in team PvP. They never were.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Actually yes. That is what people that used to be online on my friendslist are saying... and actually yes.. i do agree with them.
And the truth is still that 5/6 of the people that i used to have alot of fun with and was online on a daily basis are not there anymore.. and most of these people have already maxed out anything that can be maxed out.. tried the new stuff.. and felt dirty...
You can't defend being able to do 70-80k ****s with a dhc towards a player.. thats what i achieved when i tested surgical strike 3 also having the same cooldown as other tactical weapon abilities... it would be like strapping someone in a chair and pouring melted stale cheeze down their throats...
And having something like viral torpedo trait that disables without any chance of removing that debuff.. nor hitting any skills that can make you go out of range... you cant defend that either.
It doesnt matter if its in an arena environment or an open space environment.. it still smells like melted stale cheeze to me.
I understand that people wants to win, but at what cost.. and how much fun is it to win, when you end up being the only participants left?
That's what I don't get: how is it fun to curbstomp a defenseless ship? I took my Mobius into Kerrat about a wek ago, with its same old pre-DR build (I haven't gotten anything from DR, nor upgraded anything). There were two KDF guys flying around the fed spawn, one in a T6 ship. The T6 used his space magic clickies to completely immobilize me while I had APO and PH running, while his buddy killed me straight through my shields.
I left after a few minutes, it just wasn't fun being able to do nothing at all.
Do you honestly feel that you would be able to do that vs lvl 110 player in t6 ship and consistently?
because, like i said, comparing maxed out ship/toon vs t5/lvl 50-60 guys is just not valid comparison.
Don't know what did you play, kerrat gang banging, 1v1 or team arena, but from 20 or so games i did with mixed teams last days, there were no such situations.
And what's more SS is bugged, still does only phaser damage.
I will agree only on TBR which is almost on season5 level of broken and some traits.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
You can get 35-40k with limited buffs/debuffs. Work in some debuffs from other players, have a GDF going, and it can get downright silly. Heck, even with the wrong consoles because of the Phaser bug you can get 15-20k+ with limited buffs/debuffs.
It's ambush action with flanking...not going to see those numbers uncloaked shooting somebody in the face. Well, maybe with enough stacked debuffs. It's like the Iso Cannon, where the raw damage might only be a 25-30k crit but with debuffs it's hitting for 50-60k+.
Have to keep in mind with the greyed bars - if they didn't already have TT up, they're not putting it up - so unless somebody tosses them a TT, they're going to be eating the FoMM on top of anything else. Work in some Delta Rep trait action with some Intel Fleet...
You get a decent selection of buffs and debuffs going, and well - I feel bad for some of the folks that have popped me...cause it's just over so fast, 80-100k raw hull where 40-50% DR disappears to the debuffs...and it's just over so fast.
Have to remember how much of all this stuff was designed for the Elite PVE content and the HP those mobs have. We have lower hull because of the abilities we can use...but if everybody's looking at greyed bars, nobody's using them on themselves or their team and - well - it's just over so fast.
You're right, you can't. I think. Or does it really matter? We can be pretty sure about what we may do as individuals. And you might find that you surprise yourself.
Each day that I dress myself I'm a bit shocked.
You simply can't know.
It DOES suck that the PVP wall is now FIRMLY behind $$$ In a way that it never was before. Mastery is just far too powerful. Now THAT is a specific, concrete, and measurable concern that we can address. We may not be happy with the outcome, but no one can DENY the facts in that situation.
It doesn't do any good to discuss why we know PVP and/or STO in general will be coming to an end.
Please, let no one that believes that waste one more breath on this game. Move on, be happy, there are other things to do and I'm assured you will all find something to enjoy.
For those that think there are problems that need addressing in STO and PVP, I once again encourage you all to make yourself heard in bug reports and feedback in the appropriate part of the forums.
Those are the only two rational courses of action to take.
And then there is this.
And only Cannons and the EPW are bugged for SS. Last I checked yesterday. Beams (like those AP bad boys) do the correct damage.
And yes it is reported. Responded. Not fixed. But hey we did our part.
Sorry, am I missing something? SS as in Scramble Sensors? Or OSS (Override Subsystem Safeties)?
edit: Ah fack, forgot the title name. Duh! :P
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!