your average player is not supposed to have every item of gear 100% fully to the max upgraded... if you are a min/max player must have everything 100% maxed then you pay for it in time or money...
Casuals has never meant you get the best gear.. no MMO gives the "casual" the best gear. that it is for the hardcore this is my life gamer... or the gamer with a lot of money in a F2P game.
Also it doesn't take as long as the OP is saying when you take into account alts also farming dilithium. If I really farmed hard I can make 76k or so dilithium a day do to alts I have right now.
by the time this event is over I should have another 350,000 dilithium from just this event.
If you truly want everything upgraded.. pay for it or play for it... but do not ask for a hand out for it.
Paying the equivalent $80 to upgrade 1 ships gear from mk 12 to mk 14 is crazy. That does not even account for the initial cost of getting said mk 12 gear. As it stands you either need to put in alot of time both at the computer and actual days or fork over large amount of cash.
Sure you can say well no one needs mk 14 gear but i ask what is the point of the upgrade system then.
Defend cryptic as much as you want but people are bailing. Just look the the mirror universe event they are giving away 50k free dilithium and you can pretty much afk and still recieve it yet the queues hardly ever show 100 people waiting/playing it. Before DR and the mirror event was used mosting for gaining exp i would see 500+ players waiting/playing it let alone the elite queues having 100's playing them whereas the current advanced queues can't even manage 100 players for all combined.
Cryptic is driving away the non payers while at the same time spending money on things like DR mission voice acting in an attempt to bring new players to the game and hopefully find more whales.
I just play for fun. I don't like to grind and make it a job as it becomes less fun doing it that way.
I really don't care about upgrading to epic gear as it costs too much and I don't think it will make that much of a difference. My MK XII do just fine and if a day comes where I have enough to upgrade something I will.
Seems to be the pvpers that mostly complain about this game not the casual player.
Dont forget fleets... my fleet is stuck on several projects and all it needs is dilithium.. millions of it.
On top the upgrade grindfest deluxe!
Oh and you got an alt and/or want more then on loadout for your ship? Happy upgrading my friend. Even your grand kids will still be working on this long after you passed away.
Also some dili costs in this game are.. bogus. The conversion of Doffs into higher quality doffs is way to high. You already loose alot of doffs for a single doff of higher quality and yet you need to pay big dilithium for it.
The r&d shortcut for a project is also to high.. nearly 20k dili to end a project that only yields 6k r&d xp? Are you insane or is bill gates playin sto?
In the dili store you can find items that get consumed and let you transwarp to different places, look at the dili cost of those. Bet my ... nobody is using those.
I see the problem Cryptic. Some people got many Alts and are farming alot of dilithium this way.
Most people only got 1 active char and maybe 2 more alt to get to play each profession.
The hole Dilithium cap / multiple char per account thing should be reworked.
For example a higher Dilithium cap but make it account wide.
We need to find a way to make Cryptic happy WHILE making the game enjoyable for non hardcore and non whale players.
Dont forget fleets... my fleet is stuck on several projects and all it needs is dilithium.. millions of it.
On top the upgrade grindfest deluxe!
Oh and you got an alt and/or want more then on loadout for your ship? Happy upgrading my friend. Even your grand kids will still be working on this long after you passed away.
Also some dili costs in this game are.. bogus. The conversion of Doffs into higher quality doffs is way to high. You already loose alot of doffs for a single doff of higher quality and yet you need to pay big dilithium for it.
The r&d shortcut for a project is also to high.. nearly 20k dili to end a project that only yields 6k r&d xp? Are you insane or is bill gates playin sto?
In the dili store you can find items that get consumed and let you transwarp to different places, look at the dili cost of those. Bet my ... nobody is using those.
I see the problem Cryptic. Some people got many Alts and are farming alot of dilithium this way.
Most people only got 1 active char and maybe 2 more alt to get to play each profession.
The hole Dilithium cap / multiple char per account thing should be reworked.
For example a higher Dilithium cap but make it account wide.
We need to find a way to make Cryptic happy WHILE making the game enjoyable for non hardcore and non whale players.
Well if you made it where Dili refine was account based and made the cap rise by 160 dil per level of each alt then each alt would raise the cap by 8000 at level 50. At 60 then a toon would have a daily cap increase of 9600. I would be fine with that. Reward people for leveling more than just one character.
The hole Dilithium cap / multiple char per account thing should be reworked.
For example a higher Dilithium cap but make it account wide.
We need to find a way to make Cryptic happy WHILE making the game enjoyable for non hardcore and non whale players.
People in this game have this absurd idea that everything should be easily obtainable within a week. Here's a slip of latinum, buy yourself a clue.
Harsh... harsh... but sadly very true.
I'm a strictly "casual" player (maybe 12-15 hours per week). I have NEVER felt this so called
"pressure" to reputation build, upgrade, grind, pay real money, ect., ect.. I'm here for all the
other things the game offers beyond these things. Have I done any of the above?
Certainly. When there have been items I wanted, thats the system. And I have fun doing it,
(or paying for it) for the sake of whatever limited "goodie" is at the end of that particular
rainbow. I do'nt have a single piece of equipment above "Mk-XII (VR)", and am doing all in
game that interests me, and believe me I'm not that good. The F2P element of this game
is all that anyone could ask for, who is not overly impatient/self-absorbed.
For those who wish to "Hit the Mill" for all there is, right now, my hats off to you. But you
should'nt expect a F2P game to confine itself to ones individual expectations.
It seems to me that to "game" by definition is to enjoy. Perhaps some need a long look in a
mirror, and contemplate a self evaluation of why they should continue participating in STO.
Just some thoughts from a not terribly bright, but happy rookie.
if you work a full time job and you wanted to buy a new car or tv them maybe you would save up to buy it, this could take some time if you work maybe 1 or two days a week it would take you much longer to save to buy the same, why should the game be any different.
if a person wants something that much maybe he should play more regularly to get it quicker or maybe as casual players they don't really need the best gear, maybe they can do just fine with basic gear where a more hard core player wants the slight extra edge that better gear gives them.
the problem is many hard core players have upgraded a lot of gear already, if the devs suddenly reduce the cost of upgrading by say 50% there will be a lot of unhappy players wanting compensation for dilithium spent.
they just cut the ship mastery requirements by 50% and having already reached T5 on some ships I feel slightly annoyed that I could have got twice as many ships to T5 if this was implemented from day one but that's just gameplay marks, just think how players would feel if they have spent money to buy refined dilithium for upgrading and suddenly find the costs cut with no way to get a refund.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I really don't get why people do the whole work comparison, it's a damn game not work. It's the escapism from work to have fun, when the fun becomes work it's become tedious. Tedium drives people away unless they are blind to it.
From what I've seen here there's a lot of blind people.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I was going to post something like this post on the forum because the author is right it is pissing me and lot of other players off.
Its not just R and D and upgrades you need dilithium for there many other items that require it too. The whole dilithium exchange no longer fits the needs the of game and must be overhauled. Pleae CW listen to our dischenchanted voices and do something about it.
I really don't get why people do the whole work comparison, it's a damn game not work. It's the escapism from work to have fun, when the fun becomes work it's become tedious. Tedium drives people away unless they are blind to it.
My guess? They are all unemployed but still want to experience that nine-to-five workday.
"Hey boss, why I only earn 20$ when everyone else in company earn 100$? So what that I'm working only two days at week and them work five? I want to buy same things as them but I can't because I earn to little. Work harder? NO WAY you should give me those extra 80$ for free."
1. Let's start with fact that you can easily do daily ref cap in less then an hour of play:
- 5 contraband = 2k ore (10 minutes with kdf doff gives ~10-15 contraband)
- daily foundry spotlight = up to 3,5k ore (foundry mission reward + spotlight bonus + investigation mission reward) in less then 10 minutes.
- Eta eridani and orelius daily = 2,8k in 30 minutes
- Not to mention doffing, quiz in academy, asteroid mine, PvE queues, battlezones (where with friends you can obtain enough ore for few days (even week) in ~hour)
2. Every item in the game is sort of reward for spent time or money. Less you work for it longer it take to get it. You don't to have everything right now, but if you want then stop crying and get to work.
3. If you decide to stay at the crying that you have to earn for something then go to World Red Cross or any other charity and maybe they will give it to you for free.
Tedium drives people away unless they are blind to it.
Such as the tedium of having nothing to do because you're done in a week?
"Work" examples are oft given simply as a form of "Work" example...the same sort of thing could be made without touching the "job" analogy. It's simply a case of working toward something. You want something, you work toward it...
Whether it's working a job to get money, learning to speak a foreign language, growing a garden, etc, etc, etc...whatever it is. It is the working toward a goal and accomplishing it...the satisfaction that comes from that achievement.
I stopped doing them when they started requiring 15+ minutes long missions. Good to know they changed it again.
Nope, they still require 15+ average minutes long mission, but you can make it faster and still get max reward as long as the average time of completion for this mission is more then 15 minutes. It means you complete this mission in 10 and other player in 30, average is 20 so both of you will get full reward.
Such as the tedium of having nothing to do because you're done in a week?
"Work" examples are oft given simply as a form of "Work" example...the same sort of thing could be made without touching the "job" analogy. It's simply a case of working toward something. You want something, you work toward it...
Whether it's working a job to get money, learning to speak a foreign language, growing a garden, etc, etc, etc...whatever it is. It is the working toward a goal and accomplishing it...the satisfaction that comes from that achievement.
Im sorry my friend but you see that wrong.
The problem (at least since the adjustment) is not to get the 8k dili full but that 8k are just not enough. Sure you can use alts and get dilithium rich, but most people dont do that. Who wants to play this long every day... most people might be able to throw in one hour a day (average people.. not super fast best time dilithium farming gods..)
Most people play 1-3 Chars and thats it. I personally have 3 (one for each profession) but i only play one at a time and dont switch like a maniac just to reach the cap.. meaning i get like 9k refined each day and a little extra unrefined sometimes.
We need to fix the gap between single, few and many char players in terms of dilithium cap.
That can only mean a account dilithium daily cap no matter how many chars you wish to play.
You can do it with one char or with alot of chars.
That cap needs to be high enough that multi char players dont cry out loud and low enough that cryptic wont commit suicide. Yes, in the end likely hardcore multichar dilithium farmers will have the downside of this, but those guys are not the mayority.
And then we need to take a close look if the dilithium unrefined ore income is high enough or not to justivy the dilithium demand of this game lately.
Nope, they still require 15+ average minutes long mission, but you can make it faster and still get max reward as long as the average time of completion for this mission is more then 15 minutes. It means you complete this mission in 10 and other player in 30, average is 20 so both of you will get full reward.
And we of course only look at the hardcore 10 minute guys because... TRIBBLE those 30 minute guys.
The simple truth is this game used to be alt friendly without having to either perma farm with Doffs to get Dil or farm constantly. It used to be that if you we're grinding it was for a rep...
Now it's you wanna rep? grind and get dil, You wanna craft? grind some more and buy TRIBBLE off the exchange and get dil, What??? You wanna upgrade your gear??? Grind some more try to get even more dil... God forbid your new and trying to get a piece of rep gear and upgrade at the same time... cause that'll leave you farming/refining dil for week/s for one piece of gear.
Not everyone was sitting on a mad stack of Dil and Mats when DR went live and new people definitely aren't.
It's a cash grab plain and simple that's what is irritating to most of us I imagine. Instead of time gating their Dil/Pay gating everything... So you have to log in and pad their stats or use the Dil exchange.
I have no problem giving Cryptic some of my time and/or money but not when they try and force their hands into my pockets to take it... I walked away from EQ and WoW when they got grindy and too time consuming.
Because simply put... Grind does not = Content I spend money on a company when I feel like they have/are producing something I want... not because they say so...
People are voting with their time and pocket books and in a capitalistic society that is the way things work... You produce a product that people want... people Reward you by buying it or working for it. (A perfect example Apple) If people want/value something you make no matter what the cost they will buy your product if they feel it falls within their value range. Simple economics.
This product I feel isn't providing the value I am expecting not because the Dev's aren't trying. I think they are doing a good job (The story line and VO's we're outstanding) but they really need a fix a bunch of stuff with a quality of life patch... but because "someone" is saying well everything needs to have a Dil cost now... just so we can scratch out a little more cash...
Such as the tedium of having nothing to do because you're done in a week?
"Work" examples are oft given simply as a form of "Work" example...the same sort of thing could be made without touching the "job" analogy. It's simply a case of working toward something. You want something, you work toward it...
Whether it's working a job to get money, learning to speak a foreign language, growing a garden, etc, etc, etc...whatever it is. It is the working toward a goal and accomplishing it...the satisfaction that comes from that achievement.
I comprehend the meaning of work, however it also has multiple meanings in this sense. The meaning I was referring to is that of something that now has to be done when really it's a waste of time, like a lot of governmental red tape that serves no purpose other than to slow a project or action down.
The other meaning which you are using is the literal meaning of work, as in working to complete a project. In that sense everything that people do is work if they are actively doing something.
The situation ingame is like saying to an athlete that he has to fill out a 200 sheet document before he can use the gym and that he has to do this every time he goes to the gym now because his progress during workouts was too fast.
It's arbitrary, it's pointless. They may make a bit of cash off the whales who are rabid fans, but overall they will lose players and the result will be that after the upgrade fad has run it's course and all the whales have paid what they will, the revenues will drop badly. They may already have lost revenue due to this situation. It doesn't really matter, what does matter is the target audience is being reduced a lot and that will affect PWE/Cryptic.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
It's arbitrary, it's pointless. They may make a bit of cash off the whales who are rabid fans, but overall they will lose players and the result will be that after the upgrade fad has run it's course and all the whales have paid what they will, the revenues will drop badly. They may already have lost revenue due to this situation. It doesn't really matter, what does matter is the target audience is being reduced a lot and that will affect PWE/Cryptic.
I think you're right. I really don't understand the economic strategy PWE must be following. If you asked me I'd say there are two groups of people prepared to spend large amounts of money - Star Trek fans and medium to hard core gamers.
But they're alienating both. The game gets less like Star Trek over time, which turns off fans. Gamers tend to hate pointless grinding and prefer skill over gambling. If you're a gambler you go to a physical or online casino, you don't play an MMO, in my experience anyway.
I thought I read that STO was more profitable than other PWE games? So it seems financially weird to bring ideas (if you can call grindy timegates an idea) from their other games into this one. I also read people saying they want to churn through loads of people who put in a few quid each. But there isn't a large population of players, if anything there are less people on line now than in LoR.
I don't see how it all ads up to make sense. I suppose that's why I write code for a living and don't run a gaming company.
I actually believe no cash grab will ever be too big...
Either people's willingness to burn cash is in the insanity category or it's not.
And we know there are plenty of people willing to 1000s of $, to me it seems like all you have to do is create a button for people to click to start draining your credit card.
It will never be the whales sponsoring the game that's going to be the problem.
The only risk as I see it is if they scare away the mainstream of players - the people who are majority of the playing population, so the whales will be alone on the server without being able to queue up
I think you're right. I really don't understand the economic strategy PWE must be following. If you asked me I'd say there are two groups of people prepared to spend large amounts of money - Star Trek fans and medium to hard core gamers.
But they're alienating both. The game gets less like Star Trek over time, which turns off fans.
In what way - by adding missions that continue the story of the U.S.S. Voyager, completely with using the voice actors? Yeah, Star Trek fans hate that, I guess.
And I thought the whole dilithium grind was a problem for casuals. Now it's a problem for hardcore players?
What is really going on? Is it simply this game is for no one? But why do people keep playing it then?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
And we of course only look at the hardcore 10 minute guys because... TRIBBLE those 30 minute guys.
Doing that missions in 10 minutes instead 30 isn't hardcore. It is simply knowing what and when to do (because you play that mission for n^time), you don't loss time for reading dialog, you don't stay and wonder what I should do or where to go now.
Sometimes I forget there are professional farmers in this game, and Cryptic seems to want to punish them but forgets the rest of us suffer too. TBH I understand why they want to slow their roll but can't quite grasp why they'de tie their punishment to such a collection of disorganized and unconnected systems.
Before DR crafting was optional, but they took it and made it essentially mandatory by moving the goalposts in the content by such a large boost in enemy HP's. So OK, mission drop MkXI blue gear is no longer a baseline for survival- but neither is VR Mk XII gear we used to get by winning the lockbox lottery. Now we have to pay many days worth of dili just for 'permission' to upgrade. To make it even MORE insulting, it's not even tied to the system that a player uses to create the gear. Where once it was optional to craft your now required to craft (or grind daily R&D bonus missions) to get to lvl 15 schools so you can get whatever magic buff to your ingame magic powers. You don't need those purple doffs or lvl 15 schools to play upgrade lottery- just a handfull of multiple currencies to buy mats off the exchange, throw into bin, and spin the wheel and hope for 'winnah' that gets you a rarity upgrade on your piece.
So how is it that a player is basically forced to do the R&D grind but can't actually use those R&D skills to influence the upgrade outcome ? I just don't get it, if it takes a high level crafter to make a mkXII piece of gear, why does it cost the same to upgrade to mk XIII as the player who never did anything in the R&D system ?
TL/DR version.
You don't need R&D schools to upgrade- just lots of EC and dilithium.
You need R&D schools for ingame power buffs, NOT for gear.
Sometimes I forget there are professional farmers in this game, and Cryptic seems to want to punish them but forgets the rest of us suffer too. TBH I understand why they want to slow their roll but can't quite grasp why they'de tie their punishment to such a collection of disorganized and unconnected systems.
Before DR crafting was optional, but they took it and made it essentially mandatory by moving the goalposts in the content by such a large boost in enemy HP's. So OK, mission drop MkXI blue gear is no longer a baseline for survival- but neither is VR Mk XII gear we used to get by winning the lockbox lottery.
As I read most people in this thread I start wandering if me and my fleetmates play same game that you play. At least 75% of the problem isn't in game, it's in players.
Mk XI/XII aren't enough for PvE content? Bull****. Must have R&D traits? Bull****. All you really need is some idea what you want to obtain with your ship and char, and some knowledge how game works.
Before DR crafting was optional, but they took it and made it essentially mandatory by moving the goalposts in the content by such a large boost in enemy HP's. So OK, mission drop MkXI blue gear is no longer a baseline for survival- but neither is VR Mk XII gear we used to get by winning the lockbox lottery.
It is not the tools we use which make us good, but rather how we employ them.
Plenty of people did just fine in Advanced queues in VR Mk XII gear.
In what way - by adding missions that continue the story of the U.S.S. Voyager, completely with using the voice actors? Yeah, Star Trek fans hate that, I guess.
And I thought the whole dilithium grind was a problem for casuals. Now it's a problem for hardcore players?
What is really going on? Is it simply this game is for no one? But why do people keep playing it then?
Surely I don't have to link to the 100s of forum threads claiming the game is being made less trek-like e.g. removing exploration?
And I may have put it badly but in my experience gamers and gamblers don't overlap much. Almost everything that gets added these days has a gambling element in it, the upgrade system is a good example.
I'm not knocking the missions that have been added in DR and I didn't actually say it appeals to no one. My point was that it seems to be becoming less appealing to people who would otherwise be prepared to spend money. That seems strange.
It looks to me like the direction that PWE is taking is leaving money on the table. I don't understand their strategy like I said and I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.
It is not the tools we use which make us good, but rather how we employ them.
Plenty of people did just fine in Advanced queues in VR Mk XII gear.
'Did' is the key word.
Ya, I used to do elites with mission drop mk XI blue gear but that really wasn't my point, but with the mandatory time factor in the advanced and elite STF's my old gear doesn't have the DPS to complete the content without the magic power buffs from the R&D schools. My point was the only reason for R&D schools is to have the magic power buff from lvl 15 R&D. Other than that R&D is a waste of time as it provides NOTHING toward upgrading your gear.
Lemme put this in a real example:
My car needs head gaskets. I can take it to a mechanic that'll replace them for me, for about $800. I can replace them myself for about $50 in materials and about 8 hours of time as I've been a mechanc for 20 years. The way the R&D schools affect upgrades is essentially like ME replacing my own head gaskets using my own time and charging me $800 for the materials.
Comments
It's nice that cryptic wants to milk the whales, but where does it leave the rest of us ?
Thats right- enjoy your game when us casuals bail.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
your average player is not supposed to have every item of gear 100% fully to the max upgraded... if you are a min/max player must have everything 100% maxed then you pay for it in time or money...
Casuals has never meant you get the best gear.. no MMO gives the "casual" the best gear. that it is for the hardcore this is my life gamer... or the gamer with a lot of money in a F2P game.
Also it doesn't take as long as the OP is saying when you take into account alts also farming dilithium. If I really farmed hard I can make 76k or so dilithium a day do to alts I have right now.
by the time this event is over I should have another 350,000 dilithium from just this event.
If you truly want everything upgraded.. pay for it or play for it... but do not ask for a hand out for it.
Sure you can say well no one needs mk 14 gear but i ask what is the point of the upgrade system then.
Defend cryptic as much as you want but people are bailing. Just look the the mirror universe event they are giving away 50k free dilithium and you can pretty much afk and still recieve it yet the queues hardly ever show 100 people waiting/playing it. Before DR and the mirror event was used mosting for gaining exp i would see 500+ players waiting/playing it let alone the elite queues having 100's playing them whereas the current advanced queues can't even manage 100 players for all combined.
Cryptic is driving away the non payers while at the same time spending money on things like DR mission voice acting in an attempt to bring new players to the game and hopefully find more whales.
I really don't care about upgrading to epic gear as it costs too much and I don't think it will make that much of a difference. My MK XII do just fine and if a day comes where I have enough to upgrade something I will.
Seems to be the pvpers that mostly complain about this game not the casual player.
On top the upgrade grindfest deluxe!
Oh and you got an alt and/or want more then on loadout for your ship? Happy upgrading my friend. Even your grand kids will still be working on this long after you passed away.
Also some dili costs in this game are.. bogus. The conversion of Doffs into higher quality doffs is way to high. You already loose alot of doffs for a single doff of higher quality and yet you need to pay big dilithium for it.
The r&d shortcut for a project is also to high.. nearly 20k dili to end a project that only yields 6k r&d xp? Are you insane or is bill gates playin sto?
In the dili store you can find items that get consumed and let you transwarp to different places, look at the dili cost of those. Bet my ... nobody is using those.
I see the problem Cryptic. Some people got many Alts and are farming alot of dilithium this way.
Most people only got 1 active char and maybe 2 more alt to get to play each profession.
The hole Dilithium cap / multiple char per account thing should be reworked.
For example a higher Dilithium cap but make it account wide.
We need to find a way to make Cryptic happy WHILE making the game enjoyable for non hardcore and non whale players.
Well if you made it where Dili refine was account based and made the cap rise by 160 dil per level of each alt then each alt would raise the cap by 8000 at level 50. At 60 then a toon would have a daily cap increase of 9600. I would be fine with that. Reward people for leveling more than just one character.
That's actually a pretty good idea, I like that.
Harsh... harsh... but sadly very true.
I'm a strictly "casual" player (maybe 12-15 hours per week). I have NEVER felt this so called
"pressure" to reputation build, upgrade, grind, pay real money, ect., ect.. I'm here for all the
other things the game offers beyond these things. Have I done any of the above?
Certainly. When there have been items I wanted, thats the system. And I have fun doing it,
(or paying for it) for the sake of whatever limited "goodie" is at the end of that particular
rainbow. I do'nt have a single piece of equipment above "Mk-XII (VR)", and am doing all in
game that interests me, and believe me I'm not that good. The F2P element of this game
is all that anyone could ask for, who is not overly impatient/self-absorbed.
For those who wish to "Hit the Mill" for all there is, right now, my hats off to you. But you
should'nt expect a F2P game to confine itself to ones individual expectations.
It seems to me that to "game" by definition is to enjoy. Perhaps some need a long look in a
mirror, and contemplate a self evaluation of why they should continue participating in STO.
Just some thoughts from a not terribly bright, but happy rookie.
BCW.
if a person wants something that much maybe he should play more regularly to get it quicker or maybe as casual players they don't really need the best gear, maybe they can do just fine with basic gear where a more hard core player wants the slight extra edge that better gear gives them.
the problem is many hard core players have upgraded a lot of gear already, if the devs suddenly reduce the cost of upgrading by say 50% there will be a lot of unhappy players wanting compensation for dilithium spent.
they just cut the ship mastery requirements by 50% and having already reached T5 on some ships I feel slightly annoyed that I could have got twice as many ships to T5 if this was implemented from day one but that's just gameplay marks, just think how players would feel if they have spent money to buy refined dilithium for upgrading and suddenly find the costs cut with no way to get a refund.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
From what I've seen here there's a lot of blind people.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Its not just R and D and upgrades you need dilithium for there many other items that require it too. The whole dilithium exchange no longer fits the needs the of game and must be overhauled. Pleae CW listen to our dischenchanted voices and do something about it.
My guess? They are all unemployed but still want to experience that nine-to-five workday.
1. Let's start with fact that you can easily do daily ref cap in less then an hour of play:
- 5 contraband = 2k ore (10 minutes with kdf doff gives ~10-15 contraband)
- daily foundry spotlight = up to 3,5k ore (foundry mission reward + spotlight bonus + investigation mission reward) in less then 10 minutes.
- Eta eridani and orelius daily = 2,8k in 30 minutes
- Not to mention doffing, quiz in academy, asteroid mine, PvE queues, battlezones (where with friends you can obtain enough ore for few days (even week) in ~hour)
2. Every item in the game is sort of reward for spent time or money. Less you work for it longer it take to get it. You don't to have everything right now, but if you want then stop crying and get to work.
3. If you decide to stay at the crying that you have to earn for something then go to World Red Cross or any other charity and maybe they will give it to you for free.
Such as the tedium of having nothing to do because you're done in a week?
"Work" examples are oft given simply as a form of "Work" example...the same sort of thing could be made without touching the "job" analogy. It's simply a case of working toward something. You want something, you work toward it...
Whether it's working a job to get money, learning to speak a foreign language, growing a garden, etc, etc, etc...whatever it is. It is the working toward a goal and accomplishing it...the satisfaction that comes from that achievement.
I don't think ~2 hours every day counts as a casual.
I stopped doing them when they started requiring 15+ minutes long missions. Good to know they changed it again.
Nope, they still require 15+ average minutes long mission, but you can make it faster and still get max reward as long as the average time of completion for this mission is more then 15 minutes. It means you complete this mission in 10 and other player in 30, average is 20 so both of you will get full reward.
Im sorry my friend but you see that wrong.
The problem (at least since the adjustment) is not to get the 8k dili full but that 8k are just not enough. Sure you can use alts and get dilithium rich, but most people dont do that. Who wants to play this long every day... most people might be able to throw in one hour a day (average people.. not super fast best time dilithium farming gods..)
Most people play 1-3 Chars and thats it. I personally have 3 (one for each profession) but i only play one at a time and dont switch like a maniac just to reach the cap.. meaning i get like 9k refined each day and a little extra unrefined sometimes.
We need to fix the gap between single, few and many char players in terms of dilithium cap.
That can only mean a account dilithium daily cap no matter how many chars you wish to play.
You can do it with one char or with alot of chars.
That cap needs to be high enough that multi char players dont cry out loud and low enough that cryptic wont commit suicide. Yes, in the end likely hardcore multichar dilithium farmers will have the downside of this, but those guys are not the mayority.
And then we need to take a close look if the dilithium unrefined ore income is high enough or not to justivy the dilithium demand of this game lately.
And we of course only look at the hardcore 10 minute guys because... TRIBBLE those 30 minute guys.
Now it's you wanna rep? grind and get dil, You wanna craft? grind some more and buy TRIBBLE off the exchange and get dil, What??? You wanna upgrade your gear??? Grind some more try to get even more dil... God forbid your new and trying to get a piece of rep gear and upgrade at the same time... cause that'll leave you farming/refining dil for week/s for one piece of gear.
Not everyone was sitting on a mad stack of Dil and Mats when DR went live and new people definitely aren't.
It's a cash grab plain and simple that's what is irritating to most of us I imagine. Instead of time gating their Dil/Pay gating everything... So you have to log in and pad their stats or use the Dil exchange.
I have no problem giving Cryptic some of my time and/or money but not when they try and force their hands into my pockets to take it... I walked away from EQ and WoW when they got grindy and too time consuming.
Because simply put... Grind does not = Content I spend money on a company when I feel like they have/are producing something I want... not because they say so...
People are voting with their time and pocket books and in a capitalistic society that is the way things work... You produce a product that people want... people Reward you by buying it or working for it. (A perfect example Apple) If people want/value something you make no matter what the cost they will buy your product if they feel it falls within their value range. Simple economics.
This product I feel isn't providing the value I am expecting not because the Dev's aren't trying. I think they are doing a good job (The story line and VO's we're outstanding) but they really need a fix a bunch of stuff with a quality of life patch... but because "someone" is saying well everything needs to have a Dil cost now... just so we can scratch out a little more cash...
My new sig till Cryptic fixes it....
I comprehend the meaning of work, however it also has multiple meanings in this sense. The meaning I was referring to is that of something that now has to be done when really it's a waste of time, like a lot of governmental red tape that serves no purpose other than to slow a project or action down.
The other meaning which you are using is the literal meaning of work, as in working to complete a project. In that sense everything that people do is work if they are actively doing something.
The situation ingame is like saying to an athlete that he has to fill out a 200 sheet document before he can use the gym and that he has to do this every time he goes to the gym now because his progress during workouts was too fast.
It's arbitrary, it's pointless. They may make a bit of cash off the whales who are rabid fans, but overall they will lose players and the result will be that after the upgrade fad has run it's course and all the whales have paid what they will, the revenues will drop badly. They may already have lost revenue due to this situation. It doesn't really matter, what does matter is the target audience is being reduced a lot and that will affect PWE/Cryptic.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I think you're right. I really don't understand the economic strategy PWE must be following. If you asked me I'd say there are two groups of people prepared to spend large amounts of money - Star Trek fans and medium to hard core gamers.
But they're alienating both. The game gets less like Star Trek over time, which turns off fans. Gamers tend to hate pointless grinding and prefer skill over gambling. If you're a gambler you go to a physical or online casino, you don't play an MMO, in my experience anyway.
I thought I read that STO was more profitable than other PWE games? So it seems financially weird to bring ideas (if you can call grindy timegates an idea) from their other games into this one. I also read people saying they want to churn through loads of people who put in a few quid each. But there isn't a large population of players, if anything there are less people on line now than in LoR.
I don't see how it all ads up to make sense. I suppose that's why I write code for a living and don't run a gaming company.
Either people's willingness to burn cash is in the insanity category or it's not.
And we know there are plenty of people willing to 1000s of $, to me it seems like all you have to do is create a button for people to click to start draining your credit card.
It will never be the whales sponsoring the game that's going to be the problem.
The only risk as I see it is if they scare away the mainstream of players - the people who are majority of the playing population, so the whales will be alone on the server without being able to queue up
And I thought the whole dilithium grind was a problem for casuals. Now it's a problem for hardcore players?
What is really going on? Is it simply this game is for no one? But why do people keep playing it then?
Doing that missions in 10 minutes instead 30 isn't hardcore. It is simply knowing what and when to do (because you play that mission for n^time), you don't loss time for reading dialog, you don't stay and wonder what I should do or where to go now.
Before DR crafting was optional, but they took it and made it essentially mandatory by moving the goalposts in the content by such a large boost in enemy HP's. So OK, mission drop MkXI blue gear is no longer a baseline for survival- but neither is VR Mk XII gear we used to get by winning the lockbox lottery. Now we have to pay many days worth of dili just for 'permission' to upgrade. To make it even MORE insulting, it's not even tied to the system that a player uses to create the gear. Where once it was optional to craft your now required to craft (or grind daily R&D bonus missions) to get to lvl 15 schools so you can get whatever magic buff to your ingame magic powers. You don't need those purple doffs or lvl 15 schools to play upgrade lottery- just a handfull of multiple currencies to buy mats off the exchange, throw into bin, and spin the wheel and hope for 'winnah' that gets you a rarity upgrade on your piece.
So how is it that a player is basically forced to do the R&D grind but can't actually use those R&D skills to influence the upgrade outcome ? I just don't get it, if it takes a high level crafter to make a mkXII piece of gear, why does it cost the same to upgrade to mk XIII as the player who never did anything in the R&D system ?
TL/DR version.
You don't need R&D schools to upgrade- just lots of EC and dilithium.
You need R&D schools for ingame power buffs, NOT for gear.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
As I read most people in this thread I start wandering if me and my fleetmates play same game that you play. At least 75% of the problem isn't in game, it's in players.
Mk XI/XII aren't enough for PvE content? Bull****. Must have R&D traits? Bull****. All you really need is some idea what you want to obtain with your ship and char, and some knowledge how game works.
It is not the tools we use which make us good, but rather how we employ them.
Plenty of people did just fine in Advanced queues in VR Mk XII gear.
Surely I don't have to link to the 100s of forum threads claiming the game is being made less trek-like e.g. removing exploration?
And I may have put it badly but in my experience gamers and gamblers don't overlap much. Almost everything that gets added these days has a gambling element in it, the upgrade system is a good example.
I'm not knocking the missions that have been added in DR and I didn't actually say it appeals to no one. My point was that it seems to be becoming less appealing to people who would otherwise be prepared to spend money. That seems strange.
It looks to me like the direction that PWE is taking is leaving money on the table. I don't understand their strategy like I said and I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.
'Did' is the key word.
Ya, I used to do elites with mission drop mk XI blue gear but that really wasn't my point, but with the mandatory time factor in the advanced and elite STF's my old gear doesn't have the DPS to complete the content without the magic power buffs from the R&D schools. My point was the only reason for R&D schools is to have the magic power buff from lvl 15 R&D. Other than that R&D is a waste of time as it provides NOTHING toward upgrading your gear.
Lemme put this in a real example:
My car needs head gaskets. I can take it to a mechanic that'll replace them for me, for about $800. I can replace them myself for about $50 in materials and about 8 hours of time as I've been a mechanc for 20 years. The way the R&D schools affect upgrades is essentially like ME replacing my own head gaskets using my own time and charging me $800 for the materials.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG