My Fed Sci toon is kinda on the offensive side meaning I devote full power to weapons. However, with various captain skills and an overcharged warp core with I think [S->A]; Aux power level is 71 which is actually not too bad. When I have the opportunity to do so I set my power distribution to Balanced before using something Gravity Well. Then I switch back power levels to focus on weapons. During the transfer of power Aux peaks to 95 before settling down to 90. When Aux power is at 95 I use my science ability.
The above strategy works great as long as I have the luxury of time. But that is not always the case. Still 71 Aux is not too bad. I can increase that if I were to purchase a Plasmonic Leech, but I am trying to build up EC to purchase a Wells temporal science ship from the exchange and I currently only have 20% of the asking price...
The MACO shield and Leech cancel each other out. I think the inflated shield hit points in DR have made shield stripping much more difficult using sci powers than just draining a ship. But NPCs resist's also have to be considered.
I'd look at Energy Siphon more as a buff to you than count on it seriously draining your enemy (though it can drain them). My Sci Alpha Strike using the Dyson Science Destroyer was firing off Tyken's Rift 2, Energy Siphon 3, and Tachyon Beam 1. Then following up with Torp Spread 3 using the Gravimetric or Enhanced Bio Molec. Torp. I'd also use Sensor Analysis and Sensor Scan if the opponent looked tough.
If you pursue the Romulan Reputation there is a Beam Arraythat uses no power.
Oh, and I run my ships at full Aux. I prefer using science ships. I run all torps (mostly shield bypassing damage) on my boat.
1) With DR, shield stripping is not really worth it, always go the drain route if trying to bring down shields.
2) Part gens builds are probably the best to use in DR. It will rip hulls apart AND you can keep your precious tac and engineer console slots intact if you use the solanae deflector, the [prtg] sci R&D console and 4 embassy part gens consoles (all at epic). In my book, the 5 sci/4 tac console Vesta (T5-U) can surpass the Palisade in dishing out part gens based damage. The Palisade does fine, and it's still the drain king, but the Vesta is nastier on part gens given the right build.
I think the inflated shield hit points in DR have made shield stripping much more difficult using sci powers than just draining a ship. But NPCs resist's also have to be considered.
It is harder. But it is also harder to shoot the shields off.
If you want to shield strip, go all out on THAT as a build. Run tet weapons with tet glider set. Run a tractor beam with an officer to have it drain shields. Run shield drain. Run high flow caps and everything else you can pile on to do the job. Carry one very powerful torp for when the shields are gone to crush the hull.
The biggest problem with shield drain is it only really works on one target at a time. Its generally a lot more effective to have a solid weapons based build, with aoe hititng power, a medium to strong GW3, etc. That is why I have parked my beloved recluse in favor of the TS cruiser... 8 weapons vs 6 makes a huge difference, and with the new specializations with piloting buffing turn rate, it can perform with DHC for more hitting power. The hitting power is just required for these buffed up enemy, and you gotta have some way to kill them. Folks running pure sci ships... you guys are my heroes ... I can just barely make my rom dyson do "ok" but it just lacks the hitting power in this expansion, I can't function with heavy SCI and no guns and am amazed at the folks who manage to do that.
My issues with Aux Phasers are a) they're a phaser proc, b) aux power can boost at max 1/2 your weapons with that setup, & c) they're a phaser proc. Nothing wrong with 'em TRIBBLE, just not my cup of tea. Maybe if Cryptic came out with a whole suite of aux weapons...
Ive been patiently waiting for Aux Beams for my vesta.
Id love it if they made them available (in all weapon type varieties IE: Plasma, disruptor, Tetryon etc)
It is harder. But it is also harder to shoot the shields off.
If you want to shield strip, go all out on THAT as a build. Run tet weapons with tet glider set. Run a tractor beam with an officer to have it drain shields. Run shield drain. Run high flow caps and everything else you can pile on to do the job. Carry one very powerful torp for when the shields are gone to crush the hull.
The biggest problem with shield drain is it only really works on one target at a time. Its generally a lot more effective to have a solid weapons based build, with aoe hititng power, a medium to strong GW3, etc. That is why I have parked my beloved recluse in favor of the TS cruiser... 8 weapons vs 6 makes a huge difference, and with the new specializations with piloting buffing turn rate, it can perform with DHC for more hitting power. The hitting power is just required for these buffed up enemy, and you gotta have some way to kill them. Folks running pure sci ships... you guys are my heroes ... I can just barely make my rom dyson do "ok" but it just lacks the hitting power in this expansion, I can't function with heavy SCI and no guns and am amazed at the folks who manage to do that.
Look higher up in the thread, there's a variety of good builds for sci ships that are all very solid damage.
Also, avoid pure tetryons, if you're going that route at least use refracting tets, they do the drain over time so it keeps shields off once you get them off. Pure tets do nothing at all.
And good to see you said the tractor plus doff. Too many people go for tachyon beam, but that power drains far less shields than the tractor and it does nothing else, while the tractor does a lot more.
Look higher up in the thread, there's a variety of good builds for sci ships that are all very solid damage.
Also, avoid pure tetryons, if you're going that route at least use refracting tets, they do the drain over time so it keeps shields off once you get them off. Pure tets do nothing at all.
And good to see you said the tractor plus doff. Too many people go for tachyon beam, but that power drains far less shields than the tractor and it does nothing else, while the tractor does a lot more.
well, I gave up on the shield drain build ages ago --- this game is about killing many enemy not fighting one uberboss. Shield drains are mostly single target. I have a variety of science skills but but I put my trust in gravity well & shooting things. The other skills I have slotted either heal or support the GW & gun approach.
Yes, I have taken a lot of the ideas from the sci ships. But I still prefer my 8 gun "sci ship" to my dyson or (shudder) haanom. The recluse gets a solid second place, but its also not really a sci ship. I just seem to do better in these oddball ships than the true sci boats. Granted, a couple of the fed sci ships seem to have a leg up on the class in general.
I like the build in this link, and I understand most of it, although I am a new science captian. My question is how does repulsers 2 (Tractor Beam Repulsers II?) do 6k dps? I have not tried that power, but from its description, I did not think it did any damage at all. Is there a special DOff involved or something?
I like the build in this link, and I understand most of it, although I am a new science captian. My question is how does repulsers 2 (Tractor Beam Repulsers II?) do 6k dps? I have not tried that power, but from its description, I did not think it did any damage at all. Is there a special DOff involved or something?
wiki is your friend, but in short the skill adds a tiny bit of damage per "tick" as it shoves the target. This damage adds up, so if you fly toward your target you can hit it with many ticks for a bit of damage. Honestly, its not much DPS. And, the skill is annoying as all get out to your team-mates who have to reorient (if not driving a beam array shoot anywhere ship), which is especially hard on any cannon users who have to not only reorient but reapproach the target as well. It also moves destroyed ships which can save YOU but can shove the explosion onto your team-mate. Nothing like having someone push 3 warp core explosions onto you when you just got clear.
The damage depends on your build, like gravity well --- you can make it nasty. But IMHO it causes more problems in teams than the small dps is worth.
Especially with the "intel" ships there are more options than ever for a sci player... as long as you're FED.
For a KDF it's harder. There are less options. There are NO vestas. We do have some choices, but because of the limits therein I have explored around (over the years) and put my sci in many different setups. I've done dual-bay carriers, I've done escorts (you still get subnuc and sci fleet, etc), lumbering cruiser, FAW spammer, single-cannon cruiser, battlecruiser, and many others.
It's really at the point that if you get a ship that has a CMDR sci slot you're just NOT going to do much damage. The compromise is you go with something that has a LtCDR and/or more lesser seats (i.e. Mirror Somraw, Mirror Escort). That allows you to keep your tactical seating up, which improves your attacks, your weapons, and keeps your DPS at a respectable level while continuing to pump out the sci abilities.
A couple of questions have been asked that I would like to chime in on, as I have played around with them extensively.
First: Power settings. Two schools of thought on this one: Max DPS at the expense of all else? Run full weapons power, about 60-70 aux, and use plasmonic leech always. One option when doing this is to run EPTA along with EPTS or whatever you choose -- but that depends on if your ship can run 2x EPTs or not. In this case, you're doing good damage (not great) but your sci skills will suffer for it. However, the other side of it is run your aux pegged at the top of the meter. Balance the rest out to get as decent a balance tilted towards weapons as you can. Then run EPTW. You won't make it all the way back to where you had it in the first option, BUT, EPTW also adds a secondary effect on top of just the power. It increases your weapons damage by about 18% for EPTW1, and higher for 2 and 3. That means that your power will be a bit lower than max, but you'll still make back some of it. I'm doing this most recently and I've broken 10k on my sci's ship with a pretty rough build.
Second: Drain builds. As mentioned they just aren't overly effective. Not to mention the shield sapper builds. Forgeddaboudit. NPCs have been buffed to insane levels. 12x hitpoints on elite as compared to what elite used to be. If you run a maxed out shield killer build you will never drop their shields. They just cheat too constantly. You have to kill them purely by bleedthrough in most cases. Tyken's Rift is also mostly useless unless taken to the extreme -- and really who wants to run TR3 when GW3 is better in all aspects? Even running tetryons you won't kill shields. Running polarons and energy syphon and plasmonic leech and tetryon glider I have NEVER noticed an appreciable effect on my targets. They keep on keepin' on. If you love the concept, incorporate it into your build. Just... don't focus entirely on it. Be realistic. Find a balance between damage output and drain that does not relegate you to the status of "burden" for your team.
Third: Weapons type and power. Don't be a burden! I don't mean you have to have l33t DPS or GTFO. I don't mean you have to carry the team. I've had lesser-DPS scis on my team that were a working, solid, functional part of the team and contributed to the downfall of the borg enemy. That means don't piddle around with mixed warheads thinking you can run no weapons power. Unless you KNOW, for a FACT, that you can run an all-torp build, or some experimental thing, don't do it. Test and confirm on your own time. Don't make the team suffer while you put on airs that you're the bestest. And... I don't mean to be harsh. I'm going to say this nicely: You're a sci. You're not l33t. You're not awesome. Only probably 1% of 1% can run a super-DPS sci. Only about 5% can probably run a sci with an exotic weapons setup (i.e. all torps) and actually remain effective. You probably don't fall into either of those ranks. You're "okay" at best. This is for all scis that read this. You'll want to run at least a couple energy weapons to deal with basic threats. You can't just run torps (especially since the NPC buff). Please, take this as a reality check and not an absolute. I know SOME can run them. YOU (whoever is hypothetically reading this) statistically cannot. It's a blanket statement, subject to minor exceptions here and there.
Fourth: Maximizing your abilities as a sci... You can do a lot. I think Sci abilities need a major buff, personally. The PvP QQers got them nerfed many years back and since then the PvE players have suffered while power creep runs rampant but sci powers dwindle or wane. THAT SAID... You can do a lot with traits and boffs and skill powers. There are new crafted consoles that add partgens as well as shield capacity, and save you a console slot while pulling double duty. You can only run one type per ship, but still! You can combine these with embassy consoles and the like as well. With the super-over-priced upgrade system you can get more out of your partgen consoles than before. You can also run traits that say your exotic damage has a 25% chance to crit, and other such things. Things like "when you take incoming damage, add exotic particle damage stack for 10 seconds" and so forth. Some are lockbox, some are new-ish. If you really want to maximize your exotic damage, look into these. 25% is a massive boost. If you're going to want exotic damage, take advantage of things that use it. Theta Vent Radiation, if you have access to it (or warp plasma, depending on ship), idometric charge, aceton assimilators, all of these and more are buffed by partgens skills. You have to really get into the nitty gritty of theorycrafting to get a really synergistic setup that really supports itself and reinforces its other skills. THAT is where playing a sci gets really interesting, and fun. I didn't say "uber" or "effective" mind you. It definiteiy walks a finer line than ENG or TAC players, and you have more wiggle room because -- honestly -- there is no right answer. Your build will always be wrong for STO. By that I mean you'll never catch up to the other classes. That means you don't have to min/max and can play around a bit. You can sacrifice 5% more damage to gain 25% more fun and get away with it.
wiki is your friend, but in short the skill adds a tiny bit of damage per "tick" as it shoves the target. This damage adds up, so if you fly toward your target you can hit it with many ticks for a bit of damage. Honestly, its not much DPS. And, the skill is annoying as all get out to your team-mates who have to reorient (if not driving a beam array shoot anywhere ship), which is especially hard on any cannon users who have to not only reorient but reapproach the target as well. It also moves destroyed ships which can save YOU but can shove the explosion onto your team-mate. Nothing like having someone push 3 warp core explosions onto you when you just got clear.
The damage depends on your build, like gravity well --- you can make it nasty. But IMHO it causes more problems in teams than the small dps is worth.
Team trouble is overcome with the tractor beam doff that causes it to pull not push. You combine that with eject warp plasma and feedbackmpulse and enemies are taking four or five damage ticks per second. All the damage ignores shields 100%.
You can get the damage seriously high by combining particle generator skill over 250 and the science crafting trait that causes exotic damage to crit, and the dyson particle gen science consoles that give a big damage proc to exotic damage. Combined you can get multiple damage ticks per second, each tick being thousands of damage.
The linked build is able to two-man all three dreadnoughts in borg connected advanced within the time limit. Something five beam boats can fail to pull off. He outperformed the DPs channel folks during tribble testing with that ship. Read the thread you'll see even sarcasm detector respects the damage that baby puts out, and sarcasm knows damage.
Team trouble is overcome with the tractor beam doff that causes it to pull not push. You combine that with eject warp plasma and feedbackmpulse and enemies are taking four or five damage ticks per second. All the damage ignores shields 100%.
You can get the damage seriously high by combining particle generator skill over 250 and the science crafting trait that causes exotic damage to crit, and the dyson particle gen science consoles that give a big damage proc to exotic damage. Combined you can get multiple damage ticks per second, each tick being thousands of damage.
The linked build is able to two-man all three dreadnoughts in borg connected advanced within the time limit. Something five beam boats can fail to pull off. He outperformed the DPs channel folks during tribble testing with that ship. Read the thread you'll see even sarcasm detector respects the damage that baby puts out, and sarcasm knows damage.
Yes I saw that post, gonna have to look into it deeper. I have not even started crafting on the sci toon unfortunately.
And yet that build is not a science build, mostly rep powers and universal consoles with torp spread and warp plasma.
Torpedo boats have been a staple science build forever. This is a variant that combines exotic particle damage with torpedoes and only uses one beam for subsystem targeting and minimal extra firing.
Do note that rep powers are on very long cooldowns, while he runs dual torpedo spread, dual tractor beam repulsors, eject plasma, and gravity well three as his bread and butter damage dealers.
Wow... this thread is really making me to start truly exploring Sci builds for my neglected Sci alt! Sounds like fun! I want to try to do damage that's not blocked by shields with my Vesta.
Although this is a Sci build thread... I am rethinking the Aux2Bat builds, my Eng might benefit more by going to EPTW to get the extra damage and try to get my DPS above 8K (and reevaluate skills).
I never really felt that Aux2Bat helped much - I can keep power levels up well enough being an Eng and Plasmonic Leech.
Using EPtW and Damage Control Engineer (Emergency Power variant) he might do more damage.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Torpedo boats have been a staple science build forever. This is a variant that combines exotic particle damage with torpedoes and only uses one beam for subsystem targeting and minimal extra firing.
Do note that rep powers are on very long cooldowns, while he runs dual torpedo spread, dual tractor beam repulsors, eject plasma, and gravity well three as his bread and butter damage dealers.
That is very much a science build.
In the the quote Originally Posted by naz4
Of the things listed only Sensor Scan, Repulsors, and SNB are science.
You don't have to spend all that ec for consoles and max rep to get science to work. You just need to practice using it and see what works for you, then begin tuning it for more effectiveness.
that tractor beam repulsor pull guy is kinda pricy. I am playing with the build without him for now to see if I want to shell out for it. Sigh, shoulda known it would be a unique guy ... (actually seems to be 2 unique guys, but price is the same for both).
It turns out TB and TBR share a cooldown partially. So you can't do a push/pull on your target lol. GW and TBR work together fine though.
You... uh... DO realize that the GW does damage at its center, right? And by using TBR you're basically pushing your target OUT of the damage zone, right? You're essentially costing yourself a GW cooldown with no results to show for it.
You... uh... DO realize that the GW does damage at its center, right? And by using TBR you're basically pushing your target OUT of the damage zone, right? You're essentially costing yourself a GW cooldown with no results to show for it.
Unless you use the push version to herd enemies into the well. Or the pull version while you're near the well to double hold and Damage.
Any power used poorly gives TRIBBLE/results. Using the right powers intelligently gives synergistic benefits.
You... uh... DO realize that the GW does damage at its center, right? And by using TBR you're basically pushing your target OUT of the damage zone, right? You're essentially costing yourself a GW cooldown with no results to show for it.
My GW is just sucking them back into the TBR. And its just a "lets see what these crazy ppl are taking about build" not a long term solution. That way I can try TBR without paying 15 million for an officer.
You... uh... DO realize that the GW does damage at its center, right? And by using TBR you're basically pushing your target OUT of the damage zone, right? You're essentially costing yourself a GW cooldown with no results to show for it.
GW deal much less damage than TBR, however you can use GW and TBR together to push and pull ships, dealing much more exotic damage.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
that tractor beam repulsor pull guy is kinda pricy.
Yeah, he's definitely shot up since I picked him up (and I would've considered him pricy then -- at the time, he was the most expensive thing on my sci vessel). Still totally worth it, IMO.
well, I gave up on the shield drain build ages ago --- this game is about killing many enemy not fighting one uberboss. Shield drains are mostly single target. I have a variety of science skills but but I put my trust in gravity well & shooting things. The other skills I have slotted either heal or support the GW & gun approach.
....
I can certainly understand that position.
Shield drain/transfer using the Secondary Deflector was interesting pre DR. Pre DR, and the respec it introduced, I ran a full fleet flow cap console Deflector Dyson build (using only torps, 3 Deflector Sci abilities, full Aux, and with 4 points in flow caps) that sometimes transferred all shields on mid-sized PvE enemies.
After the introduction of DR and before the first hp/shdp adjustments, I respected into full flow caps (9) and ran the same build with the Neutronic Torpedo (the tool tip noted a -18.+ drain to subsystems). Any shield transfer from the buffed enemy shields seemed negligible and was hardly noticeable.TR 3 seemed to have little effect on the ships.
Building the value of flow caps and other sci skills, like what has been done to particle gens, in PvE would be nice.
I just the other day switched from having high weapons for phasers to knocking it right down and having super high aux and using a load of torpedoes.
While I don't like the aesthetics, its far more effective.
I have tried this and it just is not as effective for me as having both powers high and using energy weapons. I manage to keep both weapons and aux nearly capped in combat. But I am a rom with AP flying an off ship as "science". that may skew my perspective on it a wee bit.
I have tried this and it just is not as effective for me as having both powers high and using energy weapons. I manage to keep both weapons and aux nearly capped in combat. But I am a rom with AP flying an off ship as "science". that may skew my perspective on it a wee bit.
Yeah Rommies run a bit different then Feds, but not too much.
A lot of Sci has to do with what works for you. I personally don't use TBR, which a lot of people think is crazy, until they see me in action then they generally shut up. Besides the cost of that DOff is INSANE right now, and I've seen way too many people use TBR without the DOff TRIBBLE things up.
Hell, yesterday I was in the Undine Battlezone, and I almost wanted to join the undine and shoot the idiot that kept TBRing the mobs out of my GW.
There is nothing wrong with flying a science ship with high energy, if that's what works for you and your team.
Personally my view is, if I want to fly a ship with high weapons energy, there are better ships out there to do it with then sci ships. If I was going to run a high weapon build, I'd rather run an escort and tack on a GW1 just to keep them in my arc.
I don't know, it just irks me a lot too to see Dyson drivers walk into a match, and switch immediately to destroyer mode. I like the Dyson, but if I'm going to fly it permanently in destroyer mode, I'm just going to drive an escort.
But that's my personal opinion. Science ships are nice in that there are a multitude of ways to be effective.
Various above can go higher that 80 though like shields at 99/80.
Some deflectors, impulse and warp cores have mods on them claiming you can exceed (125 shields, 125 aux an etc). But that's just temporary.
It is not temporary. If your cap is 130, its 130, and if you max that power level in your settings, it will sit at 130.
this seems correct otherwise. Or, in short, 350 - 400 total power is sustainable; 400+ requires leech, flow caps, and possibly running siphon along with lots of +power gear and a full +power captain spec etc. Of course you can do better still with batteries. Not sure what the totals can be with A2B.
Ok so I got the guy for pulling TBR.... and am not so sure about it... it pulls stuff down the side of my ship out of range of my guns and then everyone on the team has fun surrounding me with warp core breaches. I can't seat a warp plasma -- only have a 2 skill engineer. I think I just wasted 10 mil.
No, you did dot waste your money. Use the "pull" of the reverse tbr to pull targets in Tykens Rifts, Gravity wells, warpcore breaches, warp plasma, acetone assimilators etc. You have to plan this a bit for maximum efficiency. With my palisade I do the following: Tykens rift on targets, energy siphon, fly to the target, drop acetone assimilator, activate acetone mode, activate reverse tbr to keep targets in the rift, activate refracting tetryon cascade. Usually targets are gone then. That works nicely with max aux, max flow caps, max particle generators and traits that increase exotic damage (ship trait, RD trait, feedback loop,..).
Comments
The above strategy works great as long as I have the luxury of time. But that is not always the case. Still 71 Aux is not too bad. I can increase that if I were to purchase a Plasmonic Leech, but I am trying to build up EC to purchase a Wells temporal science ship from the exchange and I currently only have 20% of the asking price...
1) With DR, shield stripping is not really worth it, always go the drain route if trying to bring down shields.
2) Part gens builds are probably the best to use in DR. It will rip hulls apart AND you can keep your precious tac and engineer console slots intact if you use the solanae deflector, the [prtg] sci R&D console and 4 embassy part gens consoles (all at epic). In my book, the 5 sci/4 tac console Vesta (T5-U) can surpass the Palisade in dishing out part gens based damage. The Palisade does fine, and it's still the drain king, but the Vesta is nastier on part gens given the right build.
It is harder. But it is also harder to shoot the shields off.
If you want to shield strip, go all out on THAT as a build. Run tet weapons with tet glider set. Run a tractor beam with an officer to have it drain shields. Run shield drain. Run high flow caps and everything else you can pile on to do the job. Carry one very powerful torp for when the shields are gone to crush the hull.
The biggest problem with shield drain is it only really works on one target at a time. Its generally a lot more effective to have a solid weapons based build, with aoe hititng power, a medium to strong GW3, etc. That is why I have parked my beloved recluse in favor of the TS cruiser... 8 weapons vs 6 makes a huge difference, and with the new specializations with piloting buffing turn rate, it can perform with DHC for more hitting power. The hitting power is just required for these buffed up enemy, and you gotta have some way to kill them. Folks running pure sci ships... you guys are my heroes ... I can just barely make my rom dyson do "ok" but it just lacks the hitting power in this expansion, I can't function with heavy SCI and no guns and am amazed at the folks who manage to do that.
Ive been patiently waiting for Aux Beams for my vesta.
Id love it if they made them available (in all weapon type varieties IE: Plasma, disruptor, Tetryon etc)
Look higher up in the thread, there's a variety of good builds for sci ships that are all very solid damage.
Also, avoid pure tetryons, if you're going that route at least use refracting tets, they do the drain over time so it keeps shields off once you get them off. Pure tets do nothing at all.
And good to see you said the tractor plus doff. Too many people go for tachyon beam, but that power drains far less shields than the tractor and it does nothing else, while the tractor does a lot more.
well, I gave up on the shield drain build ages ago --- this game is about killing many enemy not fighting one uberboss. Shield drains are mostly single target. I have a variety of science skills but but I put my trust in gravity well & shooting things. The other skills I have slotted either heal or support the GW & gun approach.
Yes, I have taken a lot of the ideas from the sci ships. But I still prefer my 8 gun "sci ship" to my dyson or (shudder) haanom. The recluse gets a solid second place, but its also not really a sci ship. I just seem to do better in these oddball ships than the true sci boats. Granted, a couple of the fed sci ships seem to have a leg up on the class in general.
I like the build in this link, and I understand most of it, although I am a new science captian. My question is how does repulsers 2 (Tractor Beam Repulsers II?) do 6k dps? I have not tried that power, but from its description, I did not think it did any damage at all. Is there a special DOff involved or something?
wiki is your friend, but in short the skill adds a tiny bit of damage per "tick" as it shoves the target. This damage adds up, so if you fly toward your target you can hit it with many ticks for a bit of damage. Honestly, its not much DPS. And, the skill is annoying as all get out to your team-mates who have to reorient (if not driving a beam array shoot anywhere ship), which is especially hard on any cannon users who have to not only reorient but reapproach the target as well. It also moves destroyed ships which can save YOU but can shove the explosion onto your team-mate. Nothing like having someone push 3 warp core explosions onto you when you just got clear.
The damage depends on your build, like gravity well --- you can make it nasty. But IMHO it causes more problems in teams than the small dps is worth.
For a KDF it's harder. There are less options. There are NO vestas. We do have some choices, but because of the limits therein I have explored around (over the years) and put my sci in many different setups. I've done dual-bay carriers, I've done escorts (you still get subnuc and sci fleet, etc), lumbering cruiser, FAW spammer, single-cannon cruiser, battlecruiser, and many others.
It's really at the point that if you get a ship that has a CMDR sci slot you're just NOT going to do much damage. The compromise is you go with something that has a LtCDR and/or more lesser seats (i.e. Mirror Somraw, Mirror Escort). That allows you to keep your tactical seating up, which improves your attacks, your weapons, and keeps your DPS at a respectable level while continuing to pump out the sci abilities.
A couple of questions have been asked that I would like to chime in on, as I have played around with them extensively.
First: Power settings. Two schools of thought on this one: Max DPS at the expense of all else? Run full weapons power, about 60-70 aux, and use plasmonic leech always. One option when doing this is to run EPTA along with EPTS or whatever you choose -- but that depends on if your ship can run 2x EPTs or not. In this case, you're doing good damage (not great) but your sci skills will suffer for it. However, the other side of it is run your aux pegged at the top of the meter. Balance the rest out to get as decent a balance tilted towards weapons as you can. Then run EPTW. You won't make it all the way back to where you had it in the first option, BUT, EPTW also adds a secondary effect on top of just the power. It increases your weapons damage by about 18% for EPTW1, and higher for 2 and 3. That means that your power will be a bit lower than max, but you'll still make back some of it. I'm doing this most recently and I've broken 10k on my sci's ship with a pretty rough build.
Second: Drain builds. As mentioned they just aren't overly effective. Not to mention the shield sapper builds. Forgeddaboudit. NPCs have been buffed to insane levels. 12x hitpoints on elite as compared to what elite used to be. If you run a maxed out shield killer build you will never drop their shields. They just cheat too constantly. You have to kill them purely by bleedthrough in most cases. Tyken's Rift is also mostly useless unless taken to the extreme -- and really who wants to run TR3 when GW3 is better in all aspects? Even running tetryons you won't kill shields. Running polarons and energy syphon and plasmonic leech and tetryon glider I have NEVER noticed an appreciable effect on my targets. They keep on keepin' on. If you love the concept, incorporate it into your build. Just... don't focus entirely on it. Be realistic. Find a balance between damage output and drain that does not relegate you to the status of "burden" for your team.
Third: Weapons type and power. Don't be a burden! I don't mean you have to have l33t DPS or GTFO. I don't mean you have to carry the team. I've had lesser-DPS scis on my team that were a working, solid, functional part of the team and contributed to the downfall of the borg enemy. That means don't piddle around with mixed warheads thinking you can run no weapons power. Unless you KNOW, for a FACT, that you can run an all-torp build, or some experimental thing, don't do it. Test and confirm on your own time. Don't make the team suffer while you put on airs that you're the bestest. And... I don't mean to be harsh. I'm going to say this nicely: You're a sci. You're not l33t. You're not awesome. Only probably 1% of 1% can run a super-DPS sci. Only about 5% can probably run a sci with an exotic weapons setup (i.e. all torps) and actually remain effective. You probably don't fall into either of those ranks. You're "okay" at best. This is for all scis that read this. You'll want to run at least a couple energy weapons to deal with basic threats. You can't just run torps (especially since the NPC buff). Please, take this as a reality check and not an absolute. I know SOME can run them. YOU (whoever is hypothetically reading this) statistically cannot. It's a blanket statement, subject to minor exceptions here and there.
Fourth: Maximizing your abilities as a sci... You can do a lot. I think Sci abilities need a major buff, personally. The PvP QQers got them nerfed many years back and since then the PvE players have suffered while power creep runs rampant but sci powers dwindle or wane. THAT SAID... You can do a lot with traits and boffs and skill powers. There are new crafted consoles that add partgens as well as shield capacity, and save you a console slot while pulling double duty. You can only run one type per ship, but still! You can combine these with embassy consoles and the like as well. With the super-over-priced upgrade system you can get more out of your partgen consoles than before. You can also run traits that say your exotic damage has a 25% chance to crit, and other such things. Things like "when you take incoming damage, add exotic particle damage stack for 10 seconds" and so forth. Some are lockbox, some are new-ish. If you really want to maximize your exotic damage, look into these. 25% is a massive boost. If you're going to want exotic damage, take advantage of things that use it. Theta Vent Radiation, if you have access to it (or warp plasma, depending on ship), idometric charge, aceton assimilators, all of these and more are buffed by partgens skills. You have to really get into the nitty gritty of theorycrafting to get a really synergistic setup that really supports itself and reinforces its other skills. THAT is where playing a sci gets really interesting, and fun. I didn't say "uber" or "effective" mind you. It definiteiy walks a finer line than ENG or TAC players, and you have more wiggle room because -- honestly -- there is no right answer. Your build will always be wrong for STO. By that I mean you'll never catch up to the other classes. That means you don't have to min/max and can play around a bit. You can sacrifice 5% more damage to gain 25% more fun and get away with it.
Team trouble is overcome with the tractor beam doff that causes it to pull not push. You combine that with eject warp plasma and feedbackmpulse and enemies are taking four or five damage ticks per second. All the damage ignores shields 100%.
You can get the damage seriously high by combining particle generator skill over 250 and the science crafting trait that causes exotic damage to crit, and the dyson particle gen science consoles that give a big damage proc to exotic damage. Combined you can get multiple damage ticks per second, each tick being thousands of damage.
The linked build is able to two-man all three dreadnoughts in borg connected advanced within the time limit. Something five beam boats can fail to pull off. He outperformed the DPs channel folks during tribble testing with that ship. Read the thread you'll see even sarcasm detector respects the damage that baby puts out, and sarcasm knows damage.
And yet that build is not a science build, mostly rep powers and universal consoles with torp spread and warp plasma.
Yes I saw that post, gonna have to look into it deeper. I have not even started crafting on the sci toon unfortunately.
Torpedo boats have been a staple science build forever. This is a variant that combines exotic particle damage with torpedoes and only uses one beam for subsystem targeting and minimal extra firing.
Do note that rep powers are on very long cooldowns, while he runs dual torpedo spread, dual tractor beam repulsors, eject plasma, and gravity well three as his bread and butter damage dealers.
That is very much a science build.
Wow... this thread is really making me to start truly exploring Sci builds for my neglected Sci alt! Sounds like fun! I want to try to do damage that's not blocked by shields with my Vesta.
Although this is a Sci build thread... I am rethinking the Aux2Bat builds, my Eng might benefit more by going to EPTW to get the extra damage and try to get my DPS above 8K (and reevaluate skills).
I never really felt that Aux2Bat helped much - I can keep power levels up well enough being an Eng and Plasmonic Leech.
Using EPtW and Damage Control Engineer (Emergency Power variant) he might do more damage.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
In the the quote Originally Posted by naz4
Of the things listed only Sensor Scan, Repulsors, and SNB are science.
You don't have to spend all that ec for consoles and max rep to get science to work. You just need to practice using it and see what works for you, then begin tuning it for more effectiveness.
It turns out TB and TBR share a cooldown partially. So you can't do a push/pull on your target lol. GW and TBR work together fine though.
Unless you use the push version to herd enemies into the well. Or the pull version while you're near the well to double hold and Damage.
Any power used poorly gives TRIBBLE/results. Using the right powers intelligently gives synergistic benefits.
My GW is just sucking them back into the TBR. And its just a "lets see what these crazy ppl are taking about build" not a long term solution. That way I can try TBR without paying 15 million for an officer.
GW deal much less damage than TBR, however you can use GW and TBR together to push and pull ships, dealing much more exotic damage.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Yeah, he's definitely shot up since I picked him up (and I would've considered him pricy then -- at the time, he was the most expensive thing on my sci vessel). Still totally worth it, IMO.
I can certainly understand that position.
Shield drain/transfer using the Secondary Deflector was interesting pre DR. Pre DR, and the respec it introduced, I ran a full fleet flow cap console Deflector Dyson build (using only torps, 3 Deflector Sci abilities, full Aux, and with 4 points in flow caps) that sometimes transferred all shields on mid-sized PvE enemies.
After the introduction of DR and before the first hp/shdp adjustments, I respected into full flow caps (9) and ran the same build with the Neutronic Torpedo (the tool tip noted a -18.+ drain to subsystems). Any shield transfer from the buffed enemy shields seemed negligible and was hardly noticeable.TR 3 seemed to have little effect on the ships.
Building the value of flow caps and other sci skills, like what has been done to particle gens, in PvE would be nice.
Respec: shorthand for respecialization of skill point allocation for your character in STO.
There is no T in there.
While I don't like the aesthetics, its far more effective.
I have tried this and it just is not as effective for me as having both powers high and using energy weapons. I manage to keep both weapons and aux nearly capped in combat. But I am a rom with AP flying an off ship as "science". that may skew my perspective on it a wee bit.
Yeah Rommies run a bit different then Feds, but not too much.
A lot of Sci has to do with what works for you. I personally don't use TBR, which a lot of people think is crazy, until they see me in action then they generally shut up. Besides the cost of that DOff is INSANE right now, and I've seen way too many people use TBR without the DOff TRIBBLE things up.
Hell, yesterday I was in the Undine Battlezone, and I almost wanted to join the undine and shoot the idiot that kept TBRing the mobs out of my GW.
There is nothing wrong with flying a science ship with high energy, if that's what works for you and your team.
Personally my view is, if I want to fly a ship with high weapons energy, there are better ships out there to do it with then sci ships. If I was going to run a high weapon build, I'd rather run an escort and tack on a GW1 just to keep them in my arc.
I don't know, it just irks me a lot too to see Dyson drivers walk into a match, and switch immediately to destroyer mode. I like the Dyson, but if I'm going to fly it permanently in destroyer mode, I'm just going to drive an escort.
But that's my personal opinion. Science ships are nice in that there are a multitude of ways to be effective.
balance stock
50/50
50/50
50/50
50/50
balance with the right consoles
80/50 (weapons)
80/50 (shields)
80/50 (engines)
80/50 (aux)
Various above can go higher that 80 though like shields at 99/80.
Some deflectors, impulse and warp cores have mods on them claiming you can exceed (125 shields, 125 aux an etc). But that's just temporary.
Time will only tell!
It is not temporary. If your cap is 130, its 130, and if you max that power level in your settings, it will sit at 130.
this seems correct otherwise. Or, in short, 350 - 400 total power is sustainable; 400+ requires leech, flow caps, and possibly running siphon along with lots of +power gear and a full +power captain spec etc. Of course you can do better still with batteries. Not sure what the totals can be with A2B.