Well, the multiplication factor is simply inherent to any MMO in which people are allowed to team up. Unless you're prepared to outlaw teams, going much faster as a team is simply a given, and should NEVER be considered 'exploitative behavior.' Like ever.
Entirely not comparable to individual items on Tribble that may, or may not, need some tweaking.
Honestly I'd give you 5 times as many ships but then divide the xp by 5, give the same end result even though the larger number of players makes it so much easier despite the higher enemy numbers. After all, are people teaming to milk the system, or because they want to play with their friends? If its the former, then yeah that is a problem, and if the latter, they still gain but now get to do so with company they enjoy. But there should be no grind advantage to teaming.
Uh-huh, life's like this. Uh-huh, uh-huh, that's the way it is.
Seriously, though, Cryptic could borrow a few pages from CCP. Like they had a special forum section, for suggestions (which needed to fulfill certain standards before even being accepted as suggestions). The way it is now, is that the forum here tend to be just one huge flame-fest. As a Dev, I'd probably ignore most of it too.
So now all the people who have done EC exploits and foundry dilithium exploits get yet another free pass on their behavior. Not only that, they are actually rewarded for abusing things as fast as they can while the rest of us who play legit now have to work 10x as hard to gain anything.
I went from 6 fully repped/geared characters to 4 for Delta Rising. Then I went to 1 after the exp nerf. Now I feel like an idiot for trying to enjoy the new content instead of grinding those maps while it was good. Say goodbye to your alts while the abusers laugh at those of us who weren't in the know early on. The same way they are laughing at anyone who buys dilithium with real life money.
Cryptic had the chance to clean house of some scummy people. Instead they reward those who would never put a penny into the game and would laugh if it went under.
The lesson to be learned here is if you find something too good to be true, milk it non-stop until it's fixed with no consequences.
How about give everyone who didn't exploit a pool of bonus exp equivalent to that obtained by those who did? Can't wait to hear defenders of exploiters say how hard they worked in those few days to get their exp and how they deserve to keep their points.
Thank you for finally making the right decision and reversing this retro-nerf.
As one of those not directly affected, I found that the retro-nerf shattered my trust in STO.
I realize that not everyone understood the ramifications, and indeed it seems to me that in all likelihood, internal staff didn't either: that retro-nerfs on matters raised in testing but ignored, meant that anything could potentially be revoked at any time for any reason. Or to put it another way, what players kept or didn't became at that moment, entirely a matter of chance. And this was based, it seems, on statistical manipulation of the averages of players, rather than on anything individual.
By reversing this decision, you have at least taken one step in the right direction. But please note, this does not restore trust. It is the first step only, and Cryptic/PWE now needs to take some time to really reflect on the issues raised over the week and start to change its internal culture if it wants to avoid creating such huge issues for itself in the future.
And on that note, I now take my leave on this issue.
Uh-huh, life's like this. Uh-huh, uh-huh, that's the way it is.
Seriously, though, Cryptic could borrow a few pages from CCP. Like they had a special forum section, for suggestions (which needed to fulfill certain standards before even being accepted as suggestions). The way it is now, is that the forum here tend to be just one huge flame-fest. As a Dev, I'd probably ignore most of it too.
they are young, they will learn.
but having worked in different companies in higher positions front and back, there was nothing that I haven't seen or HAD TO DO myself.
Can't wait to hear defenders of exploiters say how hard they worked in those few days to get their exp and how they deserve to keep their points.
Let me accommodate you. Yes, I did nothing but grind that week; and am not accustomed to getting robbed of the work, afterwards.
The lesson to be learned here is if you find something too good to be true, milk it non-stop until it's fixed with no consequences.
No. The lesson to be learned here is, Don't build an entire expansion around nothing but having to do endless grinding, and then... act surprised when people actually do just that!
So...since I got rolled back from 110 to 60 because of Specgate....then proceeded to regrind 110...can I get some type of amazing No Lifer title for my char since you can't give back what I already re-grinded? :rolleyes:
To all that say that this is a victory for the community I ask you WHY?
Why is it a victory?
Why did they do it?
Why do we rage?
Question: Why is it a victory?
Because the masses got what they wanted, No its not a victory for anyone other than CRYPTIC because they can STILL pull the wool over someones eyes.
Question: Why is it Cryptic relented?
This victory only happened BECAUSE they are starting to loose players on mass (as suggested above) and they are losing MONEY which is a bad thing considering that beyond February next year they have no way to guarantee that STAR TREK ONLINE will survive the year because their lease on the star trek brand is UP!
Question: Why do we rage and what does it get us beyond Dev agro?
For those that rage against our treatment it is a small victory because some of us see what this victory is for, it is not for the community it a victory because most people now have plain evidence that CRYPTIC cares more for MONEY than those that supply it namely Me and YOU.
Perhaps by raging against our treatment we may change it but this is not that day but I ask you to remember; when they cant squeeze your sponge out of money you your done in their eyes you are WORTHLESS.
Dont say its not true because thats how they have treated the community for years, and since they do not disprove these accusations and only talk to those that kiss their butts proves it all the more.
CVN-65 U.S.S. Enterprise - A ship so badass it survived John McCain.
Thank you for responding to customer feedback. Even though I was not personally affected, I think this incident reveals problems with the way Cryptic handles exploits. In order to avoid problems in the future, I think you should consider the following suggestions.
1. Devote more time and resources to testing and bug fixing.
2. Improve the in-game documentation and patch notes to more clearly explain intended behavior.
3. Carefully consider penalties before applying them.
4. Be more open about exploits.
Also, please consider the points I made in the thread below.
Thank you very much for your post and for returning the skill points. While I did not lose skill points personally, I still felt it's impact and was considering leaving the game.
The skill point fiasco coupled with the XP nerf has shaken my trust in the game. The restoration of the skill points will go a long way toward healing the breach that has occurred between you and your customers. Your communication on this forum is yet another step in the right direction.
The current XP situation from last week's patch and stf difficulty vs. rewards since DR are yet another area that we ask you to address quickly.
Well, good. Now just restore the XP rewards to what they were before and all will be forgotten..
Don't hold your breath. Asphyxiation is a terrible way to go.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
After allowing the situation to occur, not do anything to stop it, implement a penalty sloppily calling players exploiters and then reward those exploiters with what they had to begin with. It's another mess but at least it draws a line under the issue.
Thank you for at least addressing us on the issue. Credit where it's due this kind of communication is a positive thing it just needs doing sooner or avoid the problem to begin with.
Thank you about that. I was not concerned, but it's nice to do that anyway.
However, it would be nice to work on the root of the problem : the lack of xp, and the need to grind.
We all know the expansion doesn't have the success you were hoping for, even if you would not admit it in public. And I think it's easy to point out the biggest reason behind that.
Can you smoother the xp reward to make the expansion worth playing ? Just like you ( technically not you, but Cryptic) did after the game was released.
When you fail something, it's better to understand why, and correct your mistakes, than to try to force everyone to see you were right.
To all that say that this is a victory for the community I ask you WHY?
Why is it a victory?
Why did they do it?
Why do we rage?
Question: Why is it a victory?
Because the masses got what they wanted, No it’s not a victory for anyone other than CRYPTIC because they can STILL pull the wool over someone’s eyes.
Question: Why is it Cryptic relented?
This “victory” only happened BECAUSE they are starting to loose players on mass (as suggested above) and they are losing MONEY which is a bad thing considering that beyond February next year they have no way to guarantee that STAR TREK ONLINE will survive the year because their lease on the star trek brand is UP!
Question: Why do we rage and what does it get us beyond Dev agro?
For those that rage against our treatment it is a small victory because some of us see what this “victory” is for, it is not for the community it a victory because most people now have plain evidence that CRYPTIC cares more for MONEY than those that supply it namely Me and YOU.
Perhaps by raging against our treatment we may change it but this is not that day but I ask you to remember; when they can’t squeeze your sponge out of money you your done in their eyes you are WORTHLESS.
Don’t say it’s not true because that’s how they have treated the community for years, and since they do not disprove these accusations and only talk to those that kiss their butts proves it all the more.
You were doing ok till ya hit the yellow highlighted sentence...
That's the biggest pile of steaming, hockey-puck, made-up-stuff I've seen in quite a while around here.
BranFlakes told us just before he left that Cryptics' Trek license, doesn't have a definitive end date.
He also said that CBS is quite satisfied with the way the game is being managed and was looking forward to continuing the relationship.
Please STOP making stuff up to try and prove a point your attempting to make.
:rolleyes:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Sadly this just seems to reinforce the belief that the only way to get Cryptic to listen is to set the forums on fire.
Also: Does this mean that Cryptic decided that the supposed "exploit" wasn't actually one or is this an admission that their devs don't have the necessary level of competence to hit the "exploiters" (and only those)? And if it really was "a few" who incorrectly got penalised, why not deal with them individually instead of restoring points for everyone? This doesn't really make sense, considering according to Cryptic only "around 300 characters" were affected and unless Cryptic majorly screwed up only a fraction of those should have been hit accidentally.
What? It was an exploit. They aren't restoring the ridiculous speed of leveling just returning spec points.......
For Cryptic to do a reverse on this and apologize tells me there was no real exploit.
They just didn't like the fact people blew through the grind so quickly.
So stop calling these guys cheaters and exploiters as by Cryptic giving back these points i see it as an admission that they were wrong to label those people as such. It was said to be a small percentage of the player base that benefitted, So what would it be for Cryptic to find and punish these guys and not give 2 hoots if they were right or wrong as this small number of people make no difference to the game as a whole to lose as customers.
Or Cryptic either have done another fine job in cocking up finding the right people they labelled as exploiters and Cryptic handled the whole affair poorly and rolled back the wrong accounts unjustly and effected a larger percentage of the player that they could not afford to alienate so had to relent.
You decide.
Also those so called cheaters may be nothing of the kind they may have stumbled across this map and realized quite innocently that hey this map rewards me better xp than the stuff from the expansion. why am i playing a more difficult and less rewarding map when i can get my toon leveled here easier and quicker. Thats not cheating/exploiting, its using the tools laid down in front of you
I was thinking to buy lifetime sub., but now i won't ...
Release from prison 5 innocent along with the 300 killers, it's a bad move :mad:
Wow, chill out dude. :eek:
Nobody killed anyone, it's a video game. There are not 300 murderers out there to get us now because of this.
The number of people who were unjustifiably punished was far more than 5 people. Why should random innocent players suffer because of the company's faulty system of targeting the real culprits. They admitted their system is faulty, apologized for that and it's time to move on.
It's a video game, it's the most sensible solution in such environment given the circumistances.
Not affected, but very appreciative of this decision. Thank you, Cryptic.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
I was thinking to buy lifetime sub., but now i won't ...
Release from prison 5 innocent along with the 300 killers, it's a bad move :mad:
There was also at least 3x as many people that had no points removed even though they where far more "guilty" by your standards then any of the people that had points removed. So the "killers" where already out there free and clear laughing. lol
This is a video game anyway man chill... what was going on was also no exploit. No matter what the devs want to say to try and convince us that we should be happy about 5 month grinds per toon now. What was happening before with teaming XP on ELITE mode was the way the game has worked for a few years now.... it was labeled an "exploit" now because Cryptic in there minds figured we should all be leveling to 110 for 8 months. People have known how to speed level in STO for 4 years now... what happened was no shock to anyone that actually played this game. If Cryptics dev team played the game more they would have been more then aware of how the games reward system worked.
I would like to thank the players who took the time to report problems with the Specialization Point removal last Thursday through the Customer Service ticket system. It really helped in being able to track and take care of everyone.
In the process of reviewing each persons ticket, we did indeed find that there were a few customers who did not take advantage of the power-leveling bug and yet had Specialization Points removed. There were also a few who managed to use the bug and were not penalized.
After considering the situation, we have decided that rather than doing another round of corrections a week after the problem event, that we will restore the points to all characters that had them removed. As of the time of this posting, all characters should have had their missing points restored.
I sincerely apologize on behalf of the Star Trek Online team for both the original bugs and the error of penalizing some customers incorrectly.
Stephen DAngelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Although I was not part of that mishap.... just going to say this.
"Those do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it'
Comments
Honestly I'd give you 5 times as many ships but then divide the xp by 5, give the same end result even though the larger number of players makes it so much easier despite the higher enemy numbers. After all, are people teaming to milk the system, or because they want to play with their friends? If its the former, then yeah that is a problem, and if the latter, they still gain but now get to do so with company they enjoy. But there should be no grind advantage to teaming.
Uh-huh, life's like this. Uh-huh, uh-huh, that's the way it is.
Seriously, though, Cryptic could borrow a few pages from CCP. Like they had a special forum section, for suggestions (which needed to fulfill certain standards before even being accepted as suggestions). The way it is now, is that the forum here tend to be just one huge flame-fest. As a Dev, I'd probably ignore most of it too.
I went from 6 fully repped/geared characters to 4 for Delta Rising. Then I went to 1 after the exp nerf. Now I feel like an idiot for trying to enjoy the new content instead of grinding those maps while it was good. Say goodbye to your alts while the abusers laugh at those of us who weren't in the know early on. The same way they are laughing at anyone who buys dilithium with real life money.
Cryptic had the chance to clean house of some scummy people. Instead they reward those who would never put a penny into the game and would laugh if it went under.
The lesson to be learned here is if you find something too good to be true, milk it non-stop until it's fixed with no consequences.
How about give everyone who didn't exploit a pool of bonus exp equivalent to that obtained by those who did? Can't wait to hear defenders of exploiters say how hard they worked in those few days to get their exp and how they deserve to keep their points.
As one of those not directly affected, I found that the retro-nerf shattered my trust in STO.
I realize that not everyone understood the ramifications, and indeed it seems to me that in all likelihood, internal staff didn't either: that retro-nerfs on matters raised in testing but ignored, meant that anything could potentially be revoked at any time for any reason. Or to put it another way, what players kept or didn't became at that moment, entirely a matter of chance. And this was based, it seems, on statistical manipulation of the averages of players, rather than on anything individual.
By reversing this decision, you have at least taken one step in the right direction. But please note, this does not restore trust. It is the first step only, and Cryptic/PWE now needs to take some time to really reflect on the issues raised over the week and start to change its internal culture if it wants to avoid creating such huge issues for itself in the future.
And on that note, I now take my leave on this issue.
they are young, they will learn.
but having worked in different companies in higher positions front and back, there was nothing that I haven't seen or HAD TO DO myself.
Let me accommodate you.
No. The lesson to be learned here is, Don't build an entire expansion around nothing but having to do endless grinding, and then... act surprised when people actually do just that!
/s
oh, you are soooo smart. that's why I ... but you already know
Why is it a victory?
Why did they do it?
Why do we rage?
Question: Why is it a victory?
Because the masses got what they wanted, No its not a victory for anyone other than CRYPTIC because they can STILL pull the wool over someones eyes.
Question: Why is it Cryptic relented?
This victory only happened BECAUSE they are starting to loose players on mass (as suggested above) and they are losing MONEY which is a bad thing considering that beyond February next year they have no way to guarantee that STAR TREK ONLINE will survive the year because their lease on the star trek brand is UP!
Question: Why do we rage and what does it get us beyond Dev agro?
For those that rage against our treatment it is a small victory because some of us see what this victory is for, it is not for the community it a victory because most people now have plain evidence that CRYPTIC cares more for MONEY than those that supply it namely Me and YOU.
Perhaps by raging against our treatment we may change it but this is not that day but I ask you to remember; when they cant squeeze your sponge out of money you your done in their eyes you are WORTHLESS.
Dont say its not true because thats how they have treated the community for years, and since they do not disprove these accusations and only talk to those that kiss their butts proves it all the more.
1. Devote more time and resources to testing and bug fixing.
2. Improve the in-game documentation and patch notes to more clearly explain intended behavior.
3. Carefully consider penalties before applying them.
4. Be more open about exploits.
Also, please consider the points I made in the thread below.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1278581
Thank you very much for your post and for returning the skill points. While I did not lose skill points personally, I still felt it's impact and was considering leaving the game.
The skill point fiasco coupled with the XP nerf has shaken my trust in the game. The restoration of the skill points will go a long way toward healing the breach that has occurred between you and your customers. Your communication on this forum is yet another step in the right direction.
The current XP situation from last week's patch and stf difficulty vs. rewards since DR are yet another area that we ask you to address quickly.
Thank you again for returning the skill points.
Regards,
Sam
Ka-Tet Admiral
Don't hold your breath. Asphyxiation is a terrible way to go.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
After allowing the situation to occur, not do anything to stop it, implement a penalty sloppily calling players exploiters and then reward those exploiters with what they had to begin with. It's another mess but at least it draws a line under the issue.
Thank you for at least addressing us on the issue. Credit where it's due this kind of communication is a positive thing it just needs doing sooner or avoid the problem to begin with.
However, it would be nice to work on the root of the problem : the lack of xp, and the need to grind.
We all know the expansion doesn't have the success you were hoping for, even if you would not admit it in public. And I think it's easy to point out the biggest reason behind that.
Can you smoother the xp reward to make the expansion worth playing ? Just like you ( technically not you, but Cryptic) did after the game was released.
When you fail something, it's better to understand why, and correct your mistakes, than to try to force everyone to see you were right.
I wasn't personally affected, but could not agree with players being punished for playing the game efficiently.
Now if you'll just take a look at the advanced difficulty optionals and dilithium rewards and undo the XP nerf, STO will be on the right track.
You were doing ok till ya hit the yellow highlighted sentence...
That's the biggest pile of steaming, hockey-puck, made-up-stuff I've seen in quite a while around here.
BranFlakes told us just before he left that Cryptics' Trek license, doesn't have a definitive end date.
He also said that CBS is quite satisfied with the way the game is being managed and was looking forward to continuing the relationship.
Please STOP making stuff up to try and prove a point your attempting to make.
:rolleyes:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
THIS.
A billion times over.
What? It was an exploit. They aren't restoring the ridiculous speed of leveling just returning spec points.......
I was not affected, but I know others who were.
thanks anyways.
Release from prison 5 innocent along with the 300 killers, it's a bad move :mad:
They just didn't like the fact people blew through the grind so quickly.
So stop calling these guys cheaters and exploiters as by Cryptic giving back these points i see it as an admission that they were wrong to label those people as such. It was said to be a small percentage of the player base that benefitted, So what would it be for Cryptic to find and punish these guys and not give 2 hoots if they were right or wrong as this small number of people make no difference to the game as a whole to lose as customers.
Or Cryptic either have done another fine job in cocking up finding the right people they labelled as exploiters and Cryptic handled the whole affair poorly and rolled back the wrong accounts unjustly and effected a larger percentage of the player that they could not afford to alienate so had to relent.
You decide.
Also those so called cheaters may be nothing of the kind they may have stumbled across this map and realized quite innocently that hey this map rewards me better xp than the stuff from the expansion. why am i playing a more difficult and less rewarding map when i can get my toon leveled here easier and quicker. Thats not cheating/exploiting, its using the tools laid down in front of you
Wow, chill out dude. :eek:
Nobody killed anyone, it's a video game. There are not 300 murderers out there to get us now because of this.
The number of people who were unjustifiably punished was far more than 5 people. Why should random innocent players suffer because of the company's faulty system of targeting the real culprits. They admitted their system is faulty, apologized for that and it's time to move on.
It's a video game, it's the most sensible solution in such environment given the circumistances.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
There was also at least 3x as many people that had no points removed even though they where far more "guilty" by your standards then any of the people that had points removed. So the "killers" where already out there free and clear laughing.
This is a video game anyway man chill... what was going on was also no exploit. No matter what the devs want to say to try and convince us that we should be happy about 5 month grinds per toon now. What was happening before with teaming XP on ELITE mode was the way the game has worked for a few years now.... it was labeled an "exploit" now because Cryptic in there minds figured we should all be leveling to 110 for 8 months. People have known how to speed level in STO for 4 years now... what happened was no shock to anyone that actually played this game. If Cryptics dev team played the game more they would have been more then aware of how the games reward system worked.
Although I was not part of that mishap.... just going to say this.
"Those do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it'