Players have a different perspective that we sometimes take for granted due to having different information at our fingertips. Sometimes it requires that unique perspective to notice the things that we cannot.
Personally, I play plenty. But I'm not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel. This is admittedly my bias: I trust the data that I have access to, and don't need to be constantly charting everything that happens to be in-game on a spreadsheet or notepad. This is the type of data that goes unnoticed, while I focus on things like "am I having fun?" or "is this AI behaving as expected?" and "was that boss fight tuned to the right difficulty?"
I do get it Bort... having some fun in my last few posts... cause to be honest not really having it the game lately.
I will try and get you some better info later... ran into friends in that other game now. Will be having fun for the evening.
That is true ... the current "intended" numbers are terrible.
Not to sound like a crazy... but to me it almost seems like this latest bug is intentional. (ok I am sure its not)... still the first thought I had when I saw the XP I was earning was. Wonder if PWE has told them they expect the $ they just put into this expansion was going to hold players over for X number of months. Perhaps there watching to see if Cryptic is "Competent" enough in there eyes to create GrindCore content to keep those annoyingly loud STO people busy for awhile. lol
Ok and now another round of Fun pvp... check back in 5 min when I can post again. lmao kidden back in 5 hours. lol
I know what you mean.
after last week's nerf "Elite" mobs in patrols was put in line with Elite mob in the missions, somewhat +50% - 80% resist and -80% per mob unit. I didn't look at hp numbers before the nerf but I roughly checked numbers afters (don't quote me on numbers :
kobold 400k hp now yielding around 200 xp
boss around 800k hp yielding 400 xp
Single player japori elite.
Before that I did grind japori elite just to get to lvl 60 and some specialty on 2 ships and I remember seeing numbers 400 xp per kobold and 1200 for the boss unit.
With my forward content toon being somewhat not optimal, and only doing 21k in ISA in decent team, it takes me a lot of effort and time to deal with elite mob in japori.
And yes, the mission xp nerf is another issue alltogether.
Players have a different perspective that we sometimes take for granted due to having different information at our fingertips. Sometimes it requires that unique perspective to notice the things that we cannot.
Personally, I play plenty. But I'm not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel. This is admittedly my bias: I trust the data that I have access to, and don't need to be constantly charting everything that happens to be in-game on a spreadsheet or notepad. This is the type of data that goes unnoticed, while I focus on things like "am I having fun?" or "is this AI behaving as expected?" and "was that boss fight tuned to the right difficulty?"
Its true that players have a different perspective on the game but surely that should be the reason for having tribble. So you can lets players test stuff and work with the feedback.
Noone needed a doctorate in quantum physics to see that offering a rather boring dilithium reward for overlevelling would cause issues. Tribble feedback was saying so before DR.
For your second part all I can really say it that you must have a beast of a ship to be getting any numbers flying by with the hp creep that's infesting the game at the moment. We've been given 60 levels worth to aim for but by actually playing you face 10 levels worth of patrols that aren't really much better than the exploration stuff which was scrapped due to being below par.
Players like to progress storylines and most probably wont look at the xp bar, however with the dreadful lack of meaningful xp gains I find it kind of hard to believe that your eye has never wandered to the bar more and more since you're forced to grind in order to get to the next scrap of plot.
Having done the ground and dealt with the vadwar I have to ask if the ai is actually meant to run around behind the player at every chance in an effort to justify the flanking protection spec tree thing? It doesnt make for interesting combat, all it does is make sure you fight with your back to a wall so the ai glitches into it and gets confused.
I logged the toon I was working on... did a few patrols in Delta... was getting under 100 xp for cruisers... and less then 200 xp for battle cruisers. (This is with boosters on).
Patrolled Argala again just now. Kazon Cruiser and Kazon Carriers both paid out 112 XP each (on Normal).
Personally, I play plenty. But I'm not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel.
Borticus,
I gotta say this.
If a Dev himself freely states he's "not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel," then... why were WE so severely punished for not noticing the same either, last week?! I'm not a Dev. I haven't looked at XP ever since I reached VA, a couple of years ago. Is it possible, from what you're telling us yourself here, that maybe you guys judged a wee too harshly?
Sorry, didn't mean to disrupt. Just wanted to put that out here.
If a Dev himself freely states he's "not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel," then... why were WE so severely punished for not noticing the same either, last week?! I'm not a Dev. I haven't looked at XP ever since I reached VA, a couple of years ago. Is it possible, from what you're telling us yourself here, that maybe you guys judged a wee too harshly?
Sorry, didn't mean to disrupt. Just wanted to put that out here.
Actually, they were punishing for the exact opposite. People were so concerned with every digit that they were willing to use an 'exploit' (not saying you did meimeitoo)
If people didnt care about xp, there would be no grinding, just alot of ship destroying (or alot of shooting at ships that never die)
I dunno, I never seem to notice my xp either until I hear Leonard Nimoy say 'Congratulations!'
Actually, they were punishing for the exact opposite. People were so concerned with every digit that they were willing to use an 'exploit' (not saying you did meimeitoo)
If people didnt care about xp, there would be no grinding, just alot of ship destroying (or alot of shooting at ships that never die)
I dunno, I never seem to notice my xp either until I hear Leonard Nimoy say 'Congratulations!'
My point was, before DR, I had no idea what number of XP NPC's were paying out, anywhere in the galaxy. Because XP, after VA (that I reached a few years back), becomes as good as entirely meaningless. So, when those NPC's in 'Shutdown' were paying out like 1,200 XP or so (forgot the exact number), there was nothing in my mind going: "Hey, wait a tick! This can't be right!"
It was just amusing to hear a Dev come out and say he isn't paying attention to the XP all the time either, is all.
I have a feeling.... and no, I am iun no way coming to their defence.... they pepared this patch prior to the failure of the expansion. It's the only reason I can think of as to why, given everything they've had tossed at them for what they did recently they'd take anotehr swing with the nerfbat.
Somebody somewhere's messing up.... if this is on purpose.... well, just waiting for Firefly Online to launch...
I can't state specifically on the first two with any manner of conclusiveness whether there was a change, it's just a feel. I could run something, the overall reward from it would move me a certain amount, and that's all stayed pretty much the same.
Expertise though...like I said in the other thread...
...so when you say nothing was off with XP, are you talking everything - talking something specifically? Are you including Expertise in that there's nothing off?
This is from a post I did on another forum about the Argala gains on Normal from before the patch (Sun Oct 26th)...
The difference in Mastery vs. Specialization gain is the Specialization reward at the end of the patrol, since the Mastery is only the Specialization from blowing things up.
I don't have a ship that I can show the Mastery gain on, but I can do an Argala and show the other two:
And that's what I've been complaining about...Expertise is all jacked up.
edit: And ohffs, it reset my bars again leaving Argala and returning to Vyntadi - this is getting so freaking old.
edit2: I went for a smoke, but here's an image of the reset bars and why I'm so ticked about it: http://i.imgur.com/Mw8ryTS.png
Yes, that tooltip is for the Tier 1 Starship Mastery passive on the Benthan - displaying as an item in the hotbars. The bars are so unbelievably fubar since the launch of Delta Rising...meh.
Expertise did appear to be lower today than yesterday, not that it matters much to me. Simple explanation: Lore dailies at the academies gave 300 less Expertise today, down from 1100 and some to 800 and some. Longer explanation: before today, everything that gave Skill Points and Expertise gave the Expertise in 2 chunks, 1 large chunk and a smaller chunk equal to the skill points, Lore dailies give 300 skill points each, and suddenly, the 300 Expertise chunk that was there yesterday was gone today. I didn't see anything in the notes about this, so I assume stealth change or bug. This was all on characters above 50, and they all have way too much Expertise banked, and I never bother putting it in fleet projects, simply because you get almost no credits for it, and to give others a chance to get whatever meager credits they can out of it. I don't have sub-50 characters to test it out with, but it could be a big problem if it holds true for them, since you are a little starved for Expertise to train up your BOff skills with at lower levels already, and any reduction in that would definitely hurt.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Players have a different perspective that we sometimes take for granted due to having different information at our fingertips. Sometimes it requires that unique perspective to notice the things that we cannot.
Personally, I play plenty. But I'm not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel. This is admittedly my bias: I trust the data that I have access to, and don't need to be constantly charting everything that happens to be in-game on a spreadsheet or notepad. This is the type of data that goes unnoticed, while I focus on things like "am I having fun?" or "is this AI behaving as expected?" and "was that boss fight tuned to the right difficulty?"
Well Bort...are you having fun playing? I mean,if you do that's great....but your experience would be a whole lot different than of a lot,even the majority,of players.
The PWE/Cryptic sweatshop...not where the game is made,but where the game is played!
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
It seems as though al those who will be new to the game will not be joinning our levels any time soon.
Example : Level 3 Character, Tactical Talaxian (fun).Stranded in Space overall 3278 Skill points and 819 Expertise irregardless of difficulty
First mission out : Stranded in space(Normal), Skill points per ship :5 and expertise per ship :1 Orion Corvette 3702 HP per ship.
Stranded in space(Advanced), Skill points per ship :6 and expertise per ship :1 Orion Corvette 4843 HP per ship.
Stranded in space(Elite), Skill points per ship :10 and expertise per ship :2 Orion Corvette 5757 HP per ship.
At that rate it will take about as much time to become a fleet admiral as quickly as real life, also getting you crew all decked out will take even longer. :P
I can't state specifically on the first two with any manner of conclusiveness whether there was a change, it's just a feel. I could run something, the overall reward from it would move me a certain amount, and that's all stayed pretty much the same.
Expertise though...like I said in the other thread...
...so when you say nothing was off with XP, are you talking everything - talking something specifically? Are you including Expertise in that there's nothing off?
This is from a post I did on another forum about the Argala gains on Normal from before the patch (Sun Oct 26th)...
The difference in Mastery vs. Specialization gain is the Specialization reward at the end of the patrol, since the Mastery is only the Specialization from blowing things up.
I don't have a ship that I can show the Mastery gain on, but I can do an Argala and show the other two:
And that's what I've been complaining about...Expertise is all jacked up.
edit: And ohffs, it reset my bars again leaving Argala and returning to Vyntadi - this is getting so freaking old.
edit2: I went for a smoke, but here's an image of the reset bars and why I'm so ticked about it: http://i.imgur.com/Mw8ryTS.png
Yes, that tooltip is for the Tier 1 Starship Mastery passive on the Benthan - displaying as an item in the hotbars. The bars are so unbelievably fubar since the launch of Delta Rising...meh.
I believe I can explain the decrease in expertise.
Unless I am mistaken, before you get to level 50, you get typically a larger amount of skill points than expertise (at least before Delta Rising hit). When you hit 50, the skill points you would get are transformed in expertise + you get the normal expertise you'd normally get.
With the new 10 levels till 60 (+ specializations to unlock), you once more gain skill points (after level 60, named specialization xp) and should again receive an appropriate lower amount of expertise.
BUT, after DR, we all kept receiving the previous 'double' amount of expertise while also gaining new skill points. For example blowing a Kazon cruiser, you'd receive 250 skill points and 250+100 expertise, where 100 is the amount of expertise you should get for a Kazon cruiser, and 250 is the transformed skill points you get in expertise currency because you're (over) lvl 50.
It seems now the devs noticed they forgot to unbind skill points from transforming to expertise after level 50 and 'corrected' it. Slashing expertise gain to little.
I have two reasons to believe this:
1) If I add the current gain in expertise to current gain in skill points (that hasn't changed since last week) from a defeated NPC ship, I get the value of expertise I gained from the same ship before today's patch.
2) Prior to today's patch, I would receive both 900 skill points and 900 expertise from finishing Argala patrol. After the patch, I only get 900 skill points, no expertise.
EDIT: Oh, and other than that large decrease in expertise from rewards and defeated enemies, I see no other reduction in xp gains. Argala and Doff assignements still net me the same as before today's patch.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I believe I can explain the decrease in expertise.
Unless I am mistaken, before you get to level 50, you get typically a larger amount of skill points than expertise (at least before Delta Rising hit). When you hit 50, the skill points you would get are transformed in expertise + you get the normal expertise you'd normally get.
With the new 10 levels till 60 (+ specializations to unlock), you once more gain skill points (after level 60, named specialization xp) and should again receive an appropriate lower amount of expertise.
BUT, after DR, we all kept receiving the previous 'double' amount of expertise while also gaining new skill points. For example blowing a Kazon cruiser, you'd receive 250 skill points and 250+100 expertise, where 100 is the amount of expertise you should get for a Kazon cruiser, and 250 is the transformed skill points you get in expertise currency because you're (over) lvl 50.
It seems now the devs noticed they forgot to unbind skill points from transforming to expertise after level 50 and 'corrected' it. Slashing expertise gain to little.
We weren't getting all of the Epertise that we got before DR, though. My example of the Lore dailies from earlier in the thread, for example. At 50, prior to DR, would give a total of 1770 (sometimes 1769 for whatever reason) Expertise, after DR, it was 1125 (I think, I forget the exact leftover after the 1100) and 300 skill points, so it was already lower, even in total when considering the skill points. Today just took away the second chunk of Expertise that matched the amount of the skill points. I just use the Lore dailies as an example because I do them every day out of habit.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
We weren't getting all of the Epertise that we got before DR, though. My example of the Lore dailies from earlier in the thread, for example. At 50, prior to DR, would give a total of 1770 (sometimes 1769 for whatever reason) Expertise, after DR, it was 1125 (I think, I forget the exact leftover after the 1100) and 300 skill points, so it was already lower, even in total when considering the skill points. Today just took away the second chunk of Expertise that matched the amount of the skill points. I just use the Lore dailies as an example because I do them every day out of habit.
Well of course, when DR hit, all rewards of skill points and expertise were lowered. But you were still getting the 'combined' amount of skill points and expertise as an expertise gain, plus the 'now again needed' skill points, even after level 50.
And today, all of the expertise that came from transfromed skill points was taken away.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Players have a different perspective that we sometimes take for granted due to having different information at our fingertips. Sometimes it requires that unique perspective to notice the things that we cannot.
Personally, I play plenty. But I'm not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel. This is admittedly my bias: I trust the data that I have access to, and don't need to be constantly charting everything that happens to be in-game on a spreadsheet or notepad. This is the type of data that goes unnoticed, while I focus on things like "am I having fun?" or "is this AI behaving as expected?" and "was that boss fight tuned to the right difficulty?"
Wow at this statement. Cryptic has gone so far beyond jumping the shark ... it is not even funny anymore. I think most of us are on auto pilot now. We play a bit then log out. Some have already gone on hiatus or left. The Mirror Event won't fix anything.
I logged 2K XP with normal Mirror event. We used to get 10-15K with old one. Pathetic!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Ok so after having my evening of actual fun elsewhere... I have done another patrol. (cause you know thanks Cryptic I am looking forward to the next 777 to max ONE of my 20+ toons thanks so very much)
Yes the proper XP is being rewarded. However it is not being displayed properly... and the expertise awarded is in error. (unless we are intended to earn 75% less then its fine).
So the bug does in fact seem to be a display bug. Not as major... however with the weekend coming brace yourself for another weekend of forum fires...cause lots of people aren't going to realize its just a display error and be really really annoyed.
Players have a different perspective that we sometimes take for granted due to having different information at our fingertips. Sometimes it requires that unique perspective to notice the things that we cannot.
Personally, I play plenty. But I'm not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel. This is admittedly my bias: I trust the data that I have access to, and don't need to be constantly charting everything that happens to be in-game on a spreadsheet or notepad. This is the type of data that goes unnoticed, while I focus on things like "am I having fun?" or "is this AI behaving as expected?" and "was that boss fight tuned to the right difficulty?"
very few need to chart anything...are you implying gamers have short memories? i did ask, and several others have asked for you at cryptic to not talk down to us or be condescending...seems you just can't help it.
also implied that if we're 'watching/charting the numbers we're not having fun' how do you know? people have different versions of fun. or is your version of fun the only approved version?
or...i don't know, maybe trying to get us to stop watching the numbers? shaming us because we're such accountants when we should ignore everything but blowing stuff up? if the game didn't have levels that would be fine.
it does though. and as you level you gain more perks for leveling...so those numbers are kind of important as they open access to different ways to play and different gear/ships EVERYTHING.
sorry if you were expecting to be treated with kids gloves...i'm too old to coddle people*. you're just someone who works for a company that makes a game i spent money on and play. and hey, i haven't outright insulted you. though you and several others at cryptic have no problem insulting us...
our intelligence
our common sense
our logic
and silence us
yet we mustn't bash on you. that is one unhealthy relationship.
but that was clever wording borticus. i've seen similar used in various situations but never aimed at players in an mmo from a dev.
that was new.
*actually you are being coddled as i prefer not to be banned...if you had been a player posting something like that...yeah. i should get an accolade for restraint.
*end reply*
mmm shiny signed up awhile ago for that. i hope they have a way of obtaining a callahan full bore auto lock ^_^ the way he made that little speech about his beloved...so touching just have to have one.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
Just ran about a half hour ago one of the Foundry missions that allows you to level up too. Hoping that would help take some of the edge off of the 86889 XP that you need to simply jump from 53 to 54.
Well, that idea didn't really work as planned, being I was only getting 100 XP-when lucky-in my Eclipse Intel Crusier.
So Cryptic, what I'm wanting to know is why, if you were planning on ANYTHING, did you not lessen the edge that you put on this? It's so sharp right now, it's like a frreshly-sharpened bat'leth so sharp that you would be dismembered with a light touch.
Again, why the 86889 XP that you need to simply jump from 53 to 54?
I'm not complaining about the grind, I'm just confused as to why we only need 26,000 XP-a normal amount that I would expect-to get to 52 to 53, but then that 86889 XP to move up another level, which is nearly impossible with even the 8,000 some odd XP I'm going to get from Reunion.
Again, I'm not really complaining too much here, but I would like someone to clear up my confusion here as to why the low amount of XP but the chaotically high amount of XP that you really NEED to level up after 52.
EDIT: Another thing. I'm also a bit confused as to how it seems that everyone seems to be getting a differing amount of XP for the first time running a DR misison. For instance, on Reunion, I have a friend that is about to earn 3,000 XP, whereas for ME, it's about 8,000. They are both Federation toons as well. Both the same rank. My friend's toon is level 52. I'd just like a bit more explanation as to why that difference in XP.
This sweeping XP nerfing is really really getting under my skin.
I understood why Japori got nerfed. I saw first hand how ridiculous the XP gains from that could be. There was something visibly wrong there and it needed dealt with. So when it was just Japori, I thought nothing of it. It was an exploit that needed plugging, and it got plugged.
But then Elite XP got nerfed. Not my problem, I don't play on Elite, but the "difficulty" of the Elite enemies (read: the time it takes to kill them) was suddenly brought way out of line, far lower than it should be. In hindsight that should have set off some red flags, but at the time, I thought nothing of it.
Now... now I'm seeing reports of base XP being reduced across the board. NPCs even on Normal are yielding less than they used to. DOff missions are reportedly reduced as well. Then to top it all off, the Mirror Universe Event, the go-to event for bonus XP since its inception, no longer yields bonus XP.
This is ridiculous. Only the Tau Dewa patrols were out of line. There's no need at all for other things to be hit like this or for leaving the XP bonus out of an XP event. I'm willing to entertain the notion that DOff xp could legitimately be bugged, but my benefit of the doubt has been exhausted otherwise. If this keeps up, I may need to start reevaluating how much time and money I invest in this game...
Just ran about a half hour ago one of the Foundry missions that allows you to level up too. Hoping that would help take some of the edge off of the 86889 XP that you need to simply jump from 53 to 54.
Well, that idea didn't really work as planned, being I was only getting 100 XP-when lucky-in my Eclipse Intel Crusier.
So Cryptic, what I'm wanting to know is why, if you were planning on ANYTHING, did you not lessen the edge that you put on this? It's so sharp right now, it's like a frreshly-sharpened bat'leth so sharp that you would be dismembered with a light touch.
Again, why the 86889 XP that you need to simply jump from 53 to 54?
I'm not complaining about the grind, I'm just confused as to why we only need 26,000 XP-a normal amount that I would expect-to get to 52 to 53, but then that 86889 XP to move up another level, which is nearly impossible with even the 8,000 some odd XP I'm going to get from Reunion.
Again, I'm not really complaining too much here, but I would like someone to clear up my confusion here as to why the low amount of XP but the chaotically high amount of XP that you really NEED to level up after 52.
EDIT: Another thing. I'm also a bit confused as to how it seems that everyone seems to be getting a differing amount of XP for the first time running a DR misison. For instance, on Reunion, I have a friend that is about to earn 3,000 XP, whereas for ME, it's about 8,000. They are both Federation toons as well. Both the same rank. My friend's toon is level 52. I'd just like a bit more explanation as to why that difference in XP.
It seems you either see 3 as 8 or your display UI is bugged somehow. Getting from 53 to 54 is in the 30k range. Max amount of xp you need from 59 to 60 is 54k skill points. Reunion, as well as most other DQ non-patrol missions reward 3k xp on first play.
Now... now I'm seeing reports of base XP being reduced across the board. NPCs even on Normal are yielding less than they used to. DOff missions are reportedly reduced as well. Then to top it all off, the Mirror Universe Event, the go-to event for bonus XP since its inception, no longer yields bonus XP.
Those reports seem to be false. Jump in game and see for yourself. The only nerf that has been made was to expertise. It seems to have been brought back in line with pre level 50 advancing.
Mirror Invasion giving less though is in line with their previous nerfing of xp gain. That isn't part of any new nerf this particular patch.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
There are 10 levels from 50 to 60, requiring 758,000 skill points in total. At level 50 you already have 363,000, leaving 395,000 to get to 60.
Each Argala patrol yields on average 4300 XP, so even if you didn't do anything other than Argala patrols you would need a maximum of 92 patrols, not 777 (assuming now this was just exaggeration unless you mean maxing out the spec points too?).
There are in fact 110 levels now. Sorry my friend spec levels count now. If you don't think they do go and PvP with no Spec or go and hammer E PvE ques with out any spec points. Have fun with that.
No new end game is level 110.
However you are still right I exaggerated slightly as you point out at an average of 4300 xp I am looking at around 570 or so (those first 9 levels are a bit lighter... so 552 by your math + 18 or so extras to make up that differnece)
So sorry I have 570 patrols to look forward to... per toon.
Assuming I want to still bother playing a KDF toon... and at least a rom... never mind having more then one class.
Even if I decide I only care about 4 of my 20 toons (all of which have mulitple lockboxes and traits ect ect... I have 10s of BILLIONS of Ec worth of ships and traits and gear on my ALTS... never mind the 4 toons I have decided I have to focus on now).... Bottom line I am looking at well over 2000 Patrols to level 4 toons.
There are in fact 110 levels now. Sorry my friend spec levels count now. If you don't think they do go and PvP with no Spec or go and hammer E PvE ques with out any spec points. Have fun with that.
No new end game is level 110.
However you are still right I exaggerated slightly as you point out at an average of 4300 xp I am looking at around 570 or so (those first 9 levels are a bit lighter... so 552 by your math + 18 or so extras to make up that differnece)
So sorry I have 570 patrols to look forward to... per toon.
Assuming I want to still bother playing a KDF toon... and at least a rom... never mind having more then one class.
Even if I decide I only care about 4 of my 20 toons (all of which have mulitple lockboxes and traits ect ect... I have 10s of BILLIONS of Ec worth of ships and traits and gear on my ALTS... never mind the 4 toons I have decided I have to focus on now).... Bottom line I am looking at well over 2000 Patrols to level 4 toons.
I morn the loss of Kazon life.
Having to repeat the same and only worthwhile patrol 570x in a row, to get anywhere, Spec-wise, you think that's a commentary on the state of this game?
So now the painful grind of patrols in delta has been pretty much removed as well.
I am trying really hard to refrain from an I quit post here.... having said that I'm off to play something else until the next patch... if things aren't better by then I think it may be time to just park the game for an extended hiatus.
You would think with the all the vitriol they have had tossed there way the last week, they would have taken at least a few minor steps to smooth things out. Instead they make the game even more or a grind. I don't get it at all.
It feels like they deliberately want players to slow down from simply reaching new "advanced" PvE endgame.
Rightly so if you look at the tools they give players to buy or play for in correlation of the new things to deal with there. For 9 out of 10 players:
- Being level 60 won't cope with it.
- Tier 6 ship wont cope with it.
- Intel Boff powers wont cope with it.
- Gear upgrades wont cope with it.
Under consideration that 9 out of 10 STO players WERE able to cope with the PvE endgame contend just fine two weeks ago and had a lot of fun there I would reduce the income of skill points even further.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
It feels like they deliberately want players to slow down from reaching new PvE endgame.
(...)
Under consideration that 9 out of 10 STO players WERE able to cope with the PvE endgame contend just fine two weeks ago and had a lot of fun there I would reduce the income of skill points even further.
I've also seen reports posted here of doff missions promising far more XP than they actually pay out. I honestly don't get this sudden, but very toxic, obsession with begrudging your players their progress. So what if people don't take a year to complete DR? Whence the panic?!
Comments
I do get it Bort... having some fun in my last few posts... cause to be honest not really having it the game lately.
I will try and get you some better info later... ran into friends in that other game now. Will be having fun for the evening.
Ok I'm sorry, /passiveagressivemode_0
EDIT!!!!
/passiveagressivemode_1
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/passiveagressivemode_0
I know what you mean.
after last week's nerf "Elite" mobs in patrols was put in line with Elite mob in the missions, somewhat +50% - 80% resist and -80% per mob unit. I didn't look at hp numbers before the nerf but I roughly checked numbers afters (don't quote me on numbers
kobold 400k hp now yielding around 200 xp
boss around 800k hp yielding 400 xp
Single player japori elite.
Before that I did grind japori elite just to get to lvl 60 and some specialty on 2 ships and I remember seeing numbers 400 xp per kobold and 1200 for the boss unit.
With my forward content toon being somewhat not optimal, and only doing 21k in ISA in decent team, it takes me a lot of effort and time to deal with elite mob in japori.
And yes, the mission xp nerf is another issue alltogether.
Its true that players have a different perspective on the game but surely that should be the reason for having tribble. So you can lets players test stuff and work with the feedback.
Noone needed a doctorate in quantum physics to see that offering a rather boring dilithium reward for overlevelling would cause issues. Tribble feedback was saying so before DR.
For your second part all I can really say it that you must have a beast of a ship to be getting any numbers flying by with the hp creep that's infesting the game at the moment. We've been given 60 levels worth to aim for but by actually playing you face 10 levels worth of patrols that aren't really much better than the exploration stuff which was scrapped due to being below par.
Players like to progress storylines and most probably wont look at the xp bar, however with the dreadful lack of meaningful xp gains I find it kind of hard to believe that your eye has never wandered to the bar more and more since you're forced to grind in order to get to the next scrap of plot.
Having done the ground and dealt with the vadwar I have to ask if the ai is actually meant to run around behind the player at every chance in an effort to justify the flanking protection spec tree thing? It doesnt make for interesting combat, all it does is make sure you fight with your back to a wall so the ai glitches into it and gets confused.
Patrolled Argala again just now. Kazon Cruiser and Kazon Carriers both paid out 112 XP each (on Normal).
Borticus,
I gotta say this.
If a Dev himself freely states he's "not watching the digits of every single bit of XP fly by as I destroy another Kazon or Hierarchy vessel," then... why were WE so severely punished for not noticing the same either, last week?! I'm not a Dev. I haven't looked at XP ever since I reached VA, a couple of years ago. Is it possible, from what you're telling us yourself here, that maybe you guys judged a wee too harshly?
Sorry, didn't mean to disrupt. Just wanted to put that out here.
Actually, they were punishing for the exact opposite. People were so concerned with every digit that they were willing to use an 'exploit' (not saying you did meimeitoo)
If people didnt care about xp, there would be no grinding, just alot of ship destroying (or alot of shooting at ships that never die)
I dunno, I never seem to notice my xp either until I hear Leonard Nimoy say 'Congratulations!'
My point was, before DR, I had no idea what number of XP NPC's were paying out, anywhere in the galaxy.
It was just amusing to hear a Dev come out and say he isn't paying attention to the XP all the time either, is all.
Oooo FireFly Online
https://keepflying.com/
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Expertise did appear to be lower today than yesterday, not that it matters much to me. Simple explanation: Lore dailies at the academies gave 300 less Expertise today, down from 1100 and some to 800 and some. Longer explanation: before today, everything that gave Skill Points and Expertise gave the Expertise in 2 chunks, 1 large chunk and a smaller chunk equal to the skill points, Lore dailies give 300 skill points each, and suddenly, the 300 Expertise chunk that was there yesterday was gone today. I didn't see anything in the notes about this, so I assume stealth change or bug. This was all on characters above 50, and they all have way too much Expertise banked, and I never bother putting it in fleet projects, simply because you get almost no credits for it, and to give others a chance to get whatever meager credits they can out of it. I don't have sub-50 characters to test it out with, but it could be a big problem if it holds true for them, since you are a little starved for Expertise to train up your BOff skills with at lower levels already, and any reduction in that would definitely hurt.
Shiny!
/300 secs
Well Bort...are you having fun playing? I mean,if you do that's great....but your experience would be a whole lot different than of a lot,even the majority,of players.
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
Example : Level 3 Character, Tactical Talaxian (fun).Stranded in Space overall 3278 Skill points and 819 Expertise irregardless of difficulty
First mission out : Stranded in space(Normal), Skill points per ship :5 and expertise per ship :1 Orion Corvette 3702 HP per ship.
Stranded in space(Advanced), Skill points per ship :6 and expertise per ship :1 Orion Corvette 4843 HP per ship.
Stranded in space(Elite), Skill points per ship :10 and expertise per ship :2 Orion Corvette 5757 HP per ship.
At that rate it will take about as much time to become a fleet admiral as quickly as real life, also getting you crew all decked out will take even longer. :P
I believe I can explain the decrease in expertise.
Unless I am mistaken, before you get to level 50, you get typically a larger amount of skill points than expertise (at least before Delta Rising hit). When you hit 50, the skill points you would get are transformed in expertise + you get the normal expertise you'd normally get.
With the new 10 levels till 60 (+ specializations to unlock), you once more gain skill points (after level 60, named specialization xp) and should again receive an appropriate lower amount of expertise.
BUT, after DR, we all kept receiving the previous 'double' amount of expertise while also gaining new skill points. For example blowing a Kazon cruiser, you'd receive 250 skill points and 250+100 expertise, where 100 is the amount of expertise you should get for a Kazon cruiser, and 250 is the transformed skill points you get in expertise currency because you're (over) lvl 50.
It seems now the devs noticed they forgot to unbind skill points from transforming to expertise after level 50 and 'corrected' it. Slashing expertise gain to little.
I have two reasons to believe this:
1) If I add the current gain in expertise to current gain in skill points (that hasn't changed since last week) from a defeated NPC ship, I get the value of expertise I gained from the same ship before today's patch.
2) Prior to today's patch, I would receive both 900 skill points and 900 expertise from finishing Argala patrol. After the patch, I only get 900 skill points, no expertise.
EDIT: Oh, and other than that large decrease in expertise from rewards and defeated enemies, I see no other reduction in xp gains. Argala and Doff assignements still net me the same as before today's patch.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
We weren't getting all of the Epertise that we got before DR, though. My example of the Lore dailies from earlier in the thread, for example. At 50, prior to DR, would give a total of 1770 (sometimes 1769 for whatever reason) Expertise, after DR, it was 1125 (I think, I forget the exact leftover after the 1100) and 300 skill points, so it was already lower, even in total when considering the skill points. Today just took away the second chunk of Expertise that matched the amount of the skill points. I just use the Lore dailies as an example because I do them every day out of habit.
Well of course, when DR hit, all rewards of skill points and expertise were lowered. But you were still getting the 'combined' amount of skill points and expertise as an expertise gain, plus the 'now again needed' skill points, even after level 50.
And today, all of the expertise that came from transfromed skill points was taken away.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Wow at this statement. Cryptic has gone so far beyond jumping the shark ... it is not even funny anymore. I think most of us are on auto pilot now. We play a bit then log out. Some have already gone on hiatus or left. The Mirror Event won't fix anything.
I logged 2K XP with normal Mirror event. We used to get 10-15K with old one. Pathetic!
- Judge Aaron Satie
Yes the proper XP is being rewarded. However it is not being displayed properly... and the expertise awarded is in error. (unless we are intended to earn 75% less then its fine).
So the bug does in fact seem to be a display bug. Not as major... however with the weekend coming brace yourself for another weekend of forum fires...cause lots of people aren't going to realize its just a display error and be really really annoyed.
very few need to chart anything...are you implying gamers have short memories? i did ask, and several others have asked for you at cryptic to not talk down to us or be condescending...seems you just can't help it.
also implied that if we're 'watching/charting the numbers we're not having fun' how do you know? people have different versions of fun. or is your version of fun the only approved version?
or...i don't know, maybe trying to get us to stop watching the numbers? shaming us because we're such accountants when we should ignore everything but blowing stuff up? if the game didn't have levels that would be fine.
it does though. and as you level you gain more perks for leveling...so those numbers are kind of important as they open access to different ways to play and different gear/ships EVERYTHING.
sorry if you were expecting to be treated with kids gloves...i'm too old to coddle people*. you're just someone who works for a company that makes a game i spent money on and play. and hey, i haven't outright insulted you. though you and several others at cryptic have no problem insulting us...
our intelligence
our common sense
our logic
and silence us
yet we mustn't bash on you. that is one unhealthy relationship.
but that was clever wording borticus. i've seen similar used in various situations but never aimed at players in an mmo from a dev.
that was new.
*actually you are being coddled as i prefer not to be banned...if you had been a player posting something like that...yeah. i should get an accolade for restraint.
*end reply*
mmm shiny
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
i wait also for this game, i love the tv show
Well, that idea didn't really work as planned, being I was only getting 100 XP-when lucky-in my Eclipse Intel Crusier.
So Cryptic, what I'm wanting to know is why, if you were planning on ANYTHING, did you not lessen the edge that you put on this? It's so sharp right now, it's like a frreshly-sharpened bat'leth so sharp that you would be dismembered with a light touch.
Again, why the 86889 XP that you need to simply jump from 53 to 54?
I'm not complaining about the grind, I'm just confused as to why we only need 26,000 XP-a normal amount that I would expect-to get to 52 to 53, but then that 86889 XP to move up another level, which is nearly impossible with even the 8,000 some odd XP I'm going to get from Reunion.
Again, I'm not really complaining too much here, but I would like someone to clear up my confusion here as to why the low amount of XP but the chaotically high amount of XP that you really NEED to level up after 52.
EDIT: Another thing. I'm also a bit confused as to how it seems that everyone seems to be getting a differing amount of XP for the first time running a DR misison. For instance, on Reunion, I have a friend that is about to earn 3,000 XP, whereas for ME, it's about 8,000. They are both Federation toons as well. Both the same rank. My friend's toon is level 52. I'd just like a bit more explanation as to why that difference in XP.
Hehe.
Anyhow, really looking forward to it!
I understood why Japori got nerfed. I saw first hand how ridiculous the XP gains from that could be. There was something visibly wrong there and it needed dealt with. So when it was just Japori, I thought nothing of it. It was an exploit that needed plugging, and it got plugged.
But then Elite XP got nerfed. Not my problem, I don't play on Elite, but the "difficulty" of the Elite enemies (read: the time it takes to kill them) was suddenly brought way out of line, far lower than it should be. In hindsight that should have set off some red flags, but at the time, I thought nothing of it.
Now... now I'm seeing reports of base XP being reduced across the board. NPCs even on Normal are yielding less than they used to. DOff missions are reportedly reduced as well. Then to top it all off, the Mirror Universe Event, the go-to event for bonus XP since its inception, no longer yields bonus XP.
This is ridiculous. Only the Tau Dewa patrols were out of line. There's no need at all for other things to be hit like this or for leaving the XP bonus out of an XP event. I'm willing to entertain the notion that DOff xp could legitimately be bugged, but my benefit of the doubt has been exhausted otherwise. If this keeps up, I may need to start reevaluating how much time and money I invest in this game...
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Those reports seem to be false. Jump in game and see for yourself. The only nerf that has been made was to expertise. It seems to have been brought back in line with pre level 50 advancing.
Mirror Invasion giving less though is in line with their previous nerfing of xp gain. That isn't part of any new nerf this particular patch.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
No, they are not.
There are in fact 110 levels now. Sorry my friend spec levels count now. If you don't think they do go and PvP with no Spec or go and hammer E PvE ques with out any spec points. Have fun with that.
No new end game is level 110.
However you are still right I exaggerated slightly as you point out at an average of 4300 xp I am looking at around 570 or so (those first 9 levels are a bit lighter... so 552 by your math + 18 or so extras to make up that differnece)
So sorry I have 570 patrols to look forward to... per toon.
Assuming I want to still bother playing a KDF toon... and at least a rom... never mind having more then one class.
Even if I decide I only care about 4 of my 20 toons (all of which have mulitple lockboxes and traits ect ect... I have 10s of BILLIONS of Ec worth of ships and traits and gear on my ALTS... never mind the 4 toons I have decided I have to focus on now).... Bottom line I am looking at well over 2000 Patrols to level 4 toons.
I morn the loss of Kazon life.
Having to repeat the same and only worthwhile patrol 570x in a row, to get anywhere, Spec-wise, you think that's a commentary on the state of this game?
It feels like they deliberately want players to slow down from simply reaching new "advanced" PvE endgame.
Rightly so if you look at the tools they give players to buy or play for in correlation of the new things to deal with there. For 9 out of 10 players:
- Being level 60 won't cope with it.
- Tier 6 ship wont cope with it.
- Intel Boff powers wont cope with it.
- Gear upgrades wont cope with it.
Under consideration that 9 out of 10 STO players WERE able to cope with the PvE endgame contend just fine two weeks ago and had a lot of fun there I would reduce the income of skill points even further.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I've also seen reports posted here of doff missions promising far more XP than they actually pay out. I honestly don't get this sudden, but very toxic, obsession with begrudging your players their progress.