Thank you for your response. I must apologize, I forgot to insert my sarcasm flags.
Seriously, taking a long time to level should be a part of the fun. Once your there, the rest is just a grind, so I don't see why people should be in a hurry besides having your character(s) become uber powerful captains... again.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Leveling should take ages and be worth something, but we should have good content to do it with. That's where the DEVS can apply a large number of fixes.
Let the instant gratification zombies learn to do what even Apple fanbois have learned, to wait for something good in a line all day, and maybe even earn it. These people just cant take not being at the top of the level chart for very long before some gamester/Freudian insecurities set in (other than being blown to bits instantly).
But they would rather gripe.
It's just "Dr Doom" Roubini
Refugee from those other games!
If we can level a character from 1 to 50 in 2 weeks, we should be able to level from 50 to 60 in less than a week.
Cryptic needs to either make leveling faster again or make a C-Store module that we can just purchase the upgrade to level 60 for all of our alts! They did that for the ships, why not for leveling too?
We demand instant gratification...NOW! :P
Heh, why not just have premade lvl 60 toons for sale? Let's see here, a new T6 ship runs roughly $30, so you can make the toons cost $60...1 dollar per level! :eek:
For me to have to do 184 missions JUST to grind out the last 10 levels is RIDICULOUS! I don't see how anyone can think that's even reasonable. The game doesn't even have 184 repayable episodes. And don't talk to me about "kill xp" because that's a joke. Kill xp didn't help me bridge the gap between 59 & 60 and the xp you get for doing the Kobali episodes is LESS than 708 per episode, so they aren't even worth replaying. I'm also NOT interested in what some elitists think about how the game SHOULD be based on what OTHER games are. I've been playing THIS game since beta, and THIS game was never about a ridiculously long and boring level grind. The fact is that all the pros this expansion might have are being overshadowed by a handful of huge cons, one of which is the leveling experience of those last 10 levels.
Leveling from 50 to 60 is pain in you know where. But leveling 1 to 60 might be easier most of us reached 50 long before finishing story. The level 50 players lost half if not more of the exp from finishing story at max level before DR.
You know...that's an interesting theory. Wondering if there's any truth to it.
From my point of view, I haven't even touched DR with my alts yet (and was seriously considering not even bothering honestly), but they're already almost level 53 just from running DOFF missions over the past few weeks. That should make the story progression a bit smoother hopefully.
Leveling from 50 to 60 is pain in you know where. But leveling 1 to 60 might be easier most of us reached 50 long before finishing story. The level 50 players lost half if not more of the exp from finishing story at max level before DR.
this.
I ahve five toons that hit 50 before getting to the breen series (one is still doing the borg) and they have 1-2 levels of rep in Rom dyson and undine. and Omega. and that was skipping a LOT of episodes. the last 3 toons havecompletely skipped wasteland except fist full of Gorns, just because I like the purple doff
I've just gotten my first character to 60 and it was an absolutely awful experience. The level gaps were huge. I would get done with all my patrols and story missions and still have about half a level of grinding to do before I could grab my next missions. I expected a certain level of XP gap from time to time but I certainly wasn't expecting to be missing half a level each time. Even with the DOFF system it still took me an average of a day and a half just to gain 1 level.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't enjoy spending the better part of my day running around Kobali doing the same missions over and over. That was HELL.
Even worse was the grind from 59 to 60! 1 mission is all I had to give me xp and the rest of the level I had to grind out doing patrols and on Kobali.
I'm sorry, but whoever mapped out the xp rate to mission ratio failed miserably. We either need more missions or more XP per missions...
I don't think I'll be going though that again til the next time there's an XP boost event.
This is called chinese grind, chinese love it, we not so much, what gives? player spends money on stuff, skill boosters, etc
You know...that's an interesting theory. Wondering if there's any truth to it.
From my point of view, I haven't even touched DR with my alts yet (and was seriously considering not even bothering honestly), but they're already almost level 53 just from running DOFF missions over the past few weeks. That should make the story progression a bit smoother hopefully.
I just started a new Tac Romulan to find out if I'm right or wrong lol. So with off and on playing today got toon to 13. So far so good lol. I will make a post when I reach DR story line on my Level.
I have always gotten to level 50 in 1 week so should be fun.
We have been told that we would not be able to rush through the new contend. What players did not know is that it has been achieved through the simple lack of appropriate contend.
If they would not have removed the used to endgame contend right along with the delta patch things would not be as grim.
Endgame players would simply have been able to level their toons further the way they wanted and nobody would complaint.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I'm also NOT interested in what some elitists think about how the game SHOULD be based on what OTHER games are. I've been playing THIS game since beta, and THIS game was never about a ridiculously long and boring level grind.
Congrats Wilv , you just unlocked "crotchety old man Wilv" !
And no , I'm not making fun of you .
But I have listened to you when you hosted Tribbles , and I think you're a reasonably level headed guy most of the time , so I do think that you have what it takes to understand the following explanation :
Many ppl @ Cryptic are gamers (as are @ many other game developing studios) , and to make it short , monkey see , monkey do .
And the above explains why other gamers (who also play STO) recognize what happened in DR .
I for example did not see the overly long leveling curve for the last 10 levels as something taken from other games . But other gamers recognized this .
What I did see as "borrowed" from other MMO's was the convoluted gear upgrade that also has connections to the new crafting (stuff that I find annoying , which was also unprecedented in STO) .
For myself I keep hoping that once the supposedly missing content from DR will get introduced , that that will normalize somewhat the lack of stuff to do in the leveling curve ... , and that what we have to deal with now is essentially DR Beta .
But what I also learned is that you should be at Level 55-56 (or preferably higher) before you start doing DR as it is now ... , if you want to have a pleasant and unbroken story experience .
And speaking of experience ... -- my preference is to slow down my consumption of DR ... , as the longer it takes , the longer I can push off it ending , and having to deal (or possibly quitting over) the state of the queues HP and it's messed up awards .
I just want to play the story! I've only got one of my characters playing the new content right now. I went back to him after using an alt for the Dilithium weekend, ready to continue the DR story. Trouble is, I had just levelled up to level 53 when I left him, so it has basically taken me an entire play session to grind him up to level 54 so the next story mission unlocks. Before I was able to get to the mission I wanted to play I had to:
Play a Foundry Spotlight, with Investigate Officer Reports active.
Complete all the Deferi dailies.
Complete all the Eta Eridani dailies.
Play Borg Disconnected (normal).
Play Cure Found (advanced).
Complete the daily task in Sphere Allied Space.
Complete five found missions in the Kobali war zone.
Play a Federation Fleet Alert.
Do the Academy Lore daily.
Get the XP from about 10 completed DOFF missions.
Do a Patrol mission in the Delta Quadrant.
It's really kind of frustrating. I keep seeing posts on Twitter about how amazing Kestrel's story is, and I want to experience it for myself, but I can't, because the game won't let me without first grinding all the old content that I had already ground hundreds of times before DR was released. I had initially planned that my main character would not leave the Delta Quadrant until he had reached the end of the storyline there, but that soon proved to be impossible - there was just no way to get from level 51 to 52 (no access to Kobali yet) without going back to the Alpha/Beta Quadrants.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Congrats Wilv , you just unlocked "crotchety old man Wilv" !
And no , I'm not making fun of you .
But I have listened to you when you hosted Tribbles , and I think you're a reasonably level headed guy most of the time , so I do think that you have what it takes to understand the following explanation :
Many ppl @ Cryptic are gamers (as are @ many other game developing studios) , and to make it short , monkey see , monkey do .
And the above explains why other gamers (who also play STO) recognize what happened in DR .
I for example did not see the overly long leveling curve for the last 10 levels as something taken from other games . But other gamers recognized this .
What I did see as "borrowed" from other MMO's was the convoluted gear upgrade that also has connections to the new crafting (stuff that I find annoying , which was also unprecedented in STO) .
For myself I keep hoping that once the supposedly missing content from DR will get introduced , that that will normalize somewhat the lack of stuff to do in the leveling curve ... , and that what we have to deal with now is essentially DR Beta .
But what I also learned is that you should be at Level 55-56 (or preferably higher) before you start doing DR as it is now ... , if you want to have a pleasant and unbroken story experience .
And speaking of experience ... -- my preference is to slow down my consumption of DR ... , as the longer it takes , the longer I can push off it ending , and having to deal (or possibly quitting over) the state of the queues HP and it's messed up awards .
First.
Anyone that knows me personally is aware of a few things.
1, I've BEEN a "crotchety old man". I have very little patience for other people's nonsense.
2, I'm a level headed guy most of the time but when I loose it, I do so with style.
3, I hate the forums. I usually avoid them like the plague. So if I'm feeling strongly enough about something to get past my hatred and get on here you better believe it's going to be a strong post.
4, I love this game and respect the people that make it. I've had the pleasure of meeting some of them in person and they're great people who really seem to love what they're doing. However, I'm not a "yes" man. I'm not going to blindly praise the game or the team when I feel that they've clearly screwed up. Never have, never will.
Second
I've played many MMOs including WoW, DCUO and SWG. So I'm aware of what other games do. It's not like the similarities escaped me. When I played through DR I kept thinking about how much it reminded me of the awful level grind in WoW. Again, it PROBABLY wouldn't have felt so maddeningly awful IF there was more to do, but there wasn't. By my fourth run of mind scape I was sick of the entire mission.
I've played many MMOs including WoW, DCUO and SWG. So I'm aware of what other games do. It's not like the similarities escaped me. When I played through DR I kept thinking about how much it reminded me of the awful level grind in WoW. Again, it PROBABLY wouldn't have felt so maddeningly awful IF there was more to do, but there wasn't. By my fourth run of mind scape I was sick of the entire mission.
You lasted 4 runs through that mission? I was sick of it going thru it the first time.
What I have found works for me is to team with a level 50 and match their level to get the higher XP awards for at least my "legacy" captains, those that were here since before F2P. Post F2P captains have all made level 50 before Cardassian space (never played patrols either) and so there are still lots of story missions and old patrol missions they can run.
I don't have a problem with it taking longer to level up as I think it should have been that way for all levels 1-60 like prior to F2P launch. There needs to be content that's unique to get you there vs. re-hashing the same stuff over and over. It remionds me of the KDF experience years ago. Maybe for a new captain who is starting today it's a better progression because you will want to play the entire story to get to 60. (All those missions in Romulan and Cardassian space that you pretty much skip on your alts since you make it to 50 and start the rep grinds.) I haven't started any new toons since DR launched and I probably wont since I have 15 to level up already. I may even delete a few since the leveling is so dogged and the game has increased ten-fold in resource requirements while those resources have become more scarce.
I think Cryptic created this mess when they made level progression 1-50 take a couple days so you could get to the money/grind fest at level 50. Now folks are spoiled and want to complete 50 to 60 in a day or two. The worst is post 60. I just don't like the artificially inflated XP goals created by increasing the amount needed while decreasing the amount rewarded the higher up you go. Elite also makes no sense now since I can run normal mode multiple times in the time it takes to play elite once and actually get quite a bit more XP on normal. What riles me the most is at level 60 you get no XP for kills on Kobali Prime. What game doesn't give you XP for killing enemies?
I'm hopeful there will be more balancing of the difficulty vs. reward post level 60. One of my friends told me they aren't even playing the game right now because they are waiting for things to get smoothed out and they will play the new stuff when the dust settles.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
What I have found works for me is to team with a level 50 and match their level to get the higher XP awards for at least my "legacy" captains, those that were here since before F2P. Post F2P captains have all made level 50 before Cardassian space (never played patrols either) and so there are still lots of story missions and old patrol missions they can run.
I don't have a problem with it taking longer to level up as I think it should have been that way for all levels 1-60 like prior to F2P launch. There needs to be content that's unique to get you there vs. re-hashing the same stuff over and over. It remionds me of the KDF experience years ago. Maybe for a new captain who is starting today it's a better progression because you will want to play the entire story to get to 60. (All those missions in Romulan and Cardassian space that you pretty much skip on your alts since you make it to 50 and start the rep grinds.) I haven't started any new toons since DR launched and I probably wont since I have 15 to level up already. I may even delete a few since the leveling is so dogged and the game has increased ten-fold in resource requirements while those resources have become more scarce.
I think Cryptic created this mess when they made level progression 1-50 take a couple days so you could get to the money/grind fest at level 50. Now folks are spoiled and want to complete 50 to 60 in a day or two. The worst is post 60. I just don't like the artificially inflated XP goals created by increasing the amount needed while decreasing the amount rewarded the higher up you go. Elite also makes no sense now since I can run normal mode multiple times in the time it takes to play elite once and actually get quite a bit more XP on normal. What riles me the most is at level 60 you get no XP for kills on Kobali Prime. What game doesn't give you XP for killing enemies?
I'm hopeful there will be more balancing of the difficulty vs. reward post level 60. One of my friends told me they aren't even playing the game right now because they are waiting for things to get smoothed out and they will play the new stuff when the dust settles.
People aren't "spoiled". If it's how 90% of the game works it stands to reason that players expect the other 10% to work the same. Again, I don't personally care how "other" games do it. If I wanted to have a WoW like experience I would play WoW. I could just as easily compare this game to DCUO. It takes less than 2 days to reach max level in that game because the team for that game feel that the fun in the game is in the endgame content, not in the level grind.
Another example of somebody playing an MMO whilst thinking that they are playing a single player RPG...
As MMOs go, levelling is VERY fast in STO, even with the changes, and is still plenty fast enough for all but the most impatient.
Before the changes you could hit the level 50 cap in 3 days quite easily, and I am fairly certain this hasn't changed. Post level 50 it takes about 10 days to reach level 60.
MMOs, you are SUPPOSED to level more slowly the closer to the cap you get. Heck, I know of at least one where it takes about 1 year to get from level 102 to level 105 for example..
This is an MMO, the play experience isn't supposed to be a linear progression through the story only. If you want progression via story, you'd prefer a single player RPG.
Also, with all due respect, the opinions and wants of the people who don't agree with you are just as valid and important as yours.
Noone is bothered that leveling is slow or fast, we're bothered that for every story mission we're forced to GRIND xp by doing something over and over again.
Leveling can be as slow as they want, but there needs to be content to fill it.
I didn't have to farm instances over and over again in WoW to "unlock" the next quest hub or zone, it all followed each other seamlessly.
Noone is bothered that leveling is slow or fast, we're bothered that for every story mission we're forced to GRIND xp by doing something over and over again.
Leveling can be as slow as they want, but there needs to be content to fill it.
I didn't have to farm instances over and over again in WoW to "unlock" the next quest hub or zone, it all followed each other seamlessly.
Like every single other MMO you mean?
Oh and I have played DCUO, you have to "grind" just the same, and levelling is slower there not faster.
I wont argue however that more story driven content would be an improvement. Have you seen the player reactions though just lately to ANYTHING that gets added to the game? It's hardly motivational....
I've just started playing these last two weeks and I've got my character to lvl 49 already, having barely touched the missions/quests/assignments that aren't tied in directly with the main story arch. I've not repeated a single mission (except for maybe random Borg encounters and a fleeting bout of PVP matches) nor even successfully engaged in any sort of group PvE content, as the ques always seem empty and I don't like the idea of queing, starting a mission out of boredom, and then having to quit the mission when/if the que is up.
Maybe leveling gets way more difficult at 50+, or maybe it's just that I've been playing on Elite from the start and that gives me a sizable advantage in leveling time, but I've actually found the level progression to be a little quick in this game so far.
I've just started playing these last two weeks and I've got my character to lvl 49 already, having barely touched the missions/quests/assignments that aren't tied in directly with the main story arch. I've not repeated a single mission (except for maybe random Borg encounters and a fleeting bout of PVP matches) nor even successfully engaged in any sort of group PvE content, as the ques always seem empty and I don't like the idea of queing, starting a mission out of boredom, and then having to quit the mission when/if the que is up.
Maybe leveling gets way more difficult at 50+, or maybe it's just that I've been playing on Elite from the start and that gives me a sizable advantage in leveling time, but I've actually found the level progression to be a little quick in this game so far.
Levelling 50+ gets a tiny bit slower. I am a fairly casual player (I have a LOT I do in any 1 week, been in an amateur dramatics group, web series cast, invertebrate keepers club, amphibian keepers club, 4 daughters, a wife blah blah blah. lol) and managed to go from 50 to 60 in 10 days (I didn't even play every single one of those 10 days, as I don't always have the time to get on).
I do however have an LTS, which speeds up levelling a little. But if you halve the speed it took me, then that's still only 20 days.
As to the idea that it might be the "end game" content that's good here. Really? Since when?
My god, so much entitled whining. So what, gotta do those same missions over and over. Get over it.
Just wait for double XP weekend, load up do alts, profit. Personally Only doing it 3 times as my other 6 alts, are being set up for fun Star Trek Battles stuff.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Another example of somebody playing an MMO whilst thinking that they are playing a single player RPG...
As MMOs go, levelling is VERY fast in STO, even with the changes, and is still plenty fast enough for all but the most impatient.
Before the changes you could hit the level 50 cap in 3 days quite easily, and I am fairly certain this hasn't changed. Post level 50 it takes about 10 days to reach level 60.
MMOs, you are SUPPOSED to level more slowly the closer to the cap you get. Heck, I know of at least one where it takes about 1 year to get from level 102 to level 105 for example..
This is an MMO, the play experience isn't supposed to be a linear progression through the story only. If you want progression via story, you'd prefer a single player RPG.
Also, with all due respect, the opinions and wants of the people who don't agree with you are just as valid and important as yours.
Please, don't come at me with some simple minded, narrow view of how an MMO is "supposed" to work. Not all games conform to the same model or player base. Again, I point out DCUO, which has a completely different approach to it's leveling process and what they think is enjoyable in an MMO.
Please, don't come at me with some simple minded, narrow view of how an MMO is "supposed" to work. Not all games conform to the same model or player base. Again, I point out DCUO, which has a completely different approach to it's leveling process and what they think is enjoyable in an MMO.
Why not? You are. I am just as entitled to my opinions, and to post these, as you are.
Heck, if you aren't going to post an argument beyond just trying to insult me, and tell me that my opinion is wrong, then why actually post? You aren't actually going to persuade anybody to your view point like that.
kinda makes me glad most of my toons are somewhere between 52 and 54 yet and I have not even made it to the new area on all but one toon. but a fellow fleet member ran all the missions on elitle until he had to turn the difficuly down to advanced and leveled just fine. So there are options if you choose to take them. My other toons have got to 52+ by running doffs and a few pve's while they level there gear up so they will be rdy to run the delta quadrant at the higher difficulties.
I've just started playing these last two weeks and I've got my character to lvl 49 already, having barely touched the missions/quests/assignments that aren't tied in directly with the main story arch. I've not repeated a single mission (except for maybe random Borg encounters and a fleeting bout of PVP matches) nor even successfully engaged in any sort of group PvE content, as the ques always seem empty and I don't like the idea of queing, starting a mission out of boredom, and then having to quit the mission when/if the que is up.
Maybe leveling gets way more difficult at 50+, or maybe it's just that I've been playing on Elite from the start and that gives me a sizable advantage in leveling time, but I've actually found the level progression to be a little quick in this game so far.
The progression is way easy 1-50 especially if you are playing elite you get xp super fast. 50 to 60 is still better xp but once you hit 60 the xp turns to a fraction of what it was. The real grind for you will start at 50 when you will earn your reps while leveling up your toon to 60. PvEs aren't a must but you will most likely be teaming with others to do your reps and earn your marks. The game changes 50+ as you need a world of varying currencies for different gear, etc.
The nice part is with a new toon who has leveled on elite there is plenty of story for you to keep playing all the way to 60. Its the other stuff that will become tedious. I want to try a new toon from scratch to see how far I get in the story before I hit 60 from the beginning but I already have too many.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Why not? You are. I am just as entitled to my opinions, and to post these, as you are.
Heck, if you aren't going to post an argument beyond just trying to insult me, and tell me that my opinion is wrong, then why actually post? You aren't actually going to persuade anybody to your view point like that.
I wasn't aware I had to persuade you. I am not trying to persuade you. People like you, who think all MMOs should be the same are beyond persuading. People like you will forever say this game should be more like that game or that game should be more like this one. The idea of diversity doesn't even register with you guys.
Heaven forbid different games cater to a different playing style. Or that different games have a different approach to level progression or story telling.
You're entitled to your opinion. You seem to think ALL MMOs should work the same way.
I'm entitled to MY opinion. I think that's asinine and simple minded. If ALL MMOs worked the same way why would anyone want to play something different.
I don't want to play WoW with a Star Trek skin, or DCUO with a Star Trek skin. I want to play STO.
Oh and I have played DCUO, you have to "grind" just the same, and levelling is slower there not faster.
I don't know what version of DCUO you're playing. It takes a day and a half, maybe two days, to get from level 1 to 30 in DCUO. The first 10 levels you can probably whip out in less than an hour. The leveling process isn't a grind in DCUO. You go from one mission to the next seamlessly. That USED to be the case with STO. As of DR, it's not.
Yes, there is a gear grind once you reach the endgame content in DCUO but that's typical of almost every MMO. Once you reach top level you have to grind out that end game loot. That's not what I'm complaining about though. I've never had a problem with the endgame gear grind in STO, mostly because I just don't do it. Why? Because it's boring and repetitive.
Unlike some of you, I'm not saying the last 10 levels of STO should be like another MMO. I just want the last 10 levels of STO to be in par with the REST of STO. Level 1-50 of STO flows smoothly from one mission to the next. However the leveling experience from 50-60 is NOT smooth.
As I and many others have said SEVERAL times before, most of us don't mind how long it's taking to get from 50 to 60. We mind that there are huge level gaps between missions and that the only way to bridge those gaps is by doing boring and repetitive patrols or extremely long episodes (that hardly give out SP) over and over and over..
For those of you complaining that leveling is too slow, what are you looking at? Are saying the Deltra Rising episode isn't giving 10 levels, or are you saying the 8 (Fed) to 12 (Rom/KDF) episodes aren't giving 60 levels?
There's a huge difference there. The latter would be a problem with the leveling process, but the former is a problem with having "wasted" all the mission rewards due to the previous level cap.
Comments
Seriously, taking a long time to level should be a part of the fun. Once your there, the rest is just a grind, so I don't see why people should be in a hurry besides having your character(s) become uber powerful captains... again.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Let the instant gratification zombies learn to do what even Apple fanbois have learned, to wait for something good in a line all day, and maybe even earn it. These people just cant take not being at the top of the level chart for very long before some gamester/Freudian insecurities set in (other than being blown to bits instantly).
But they would rather gripe.
It's just "Dr Doom" Roubini
Refugee from those other games!
Heh, why not just have premade lvl 60 toons for sale? Let's see here, a new T6 ship runs roughly $30, so you can make the toons cost $60...1 dollar per level! :eek:
I thought maybe, just MAYBE, there would be a massive payout to bump you into the last level at the end of this mission.
YOu know, since the grind is so damn tedious the other 9 levels.
Seriously, I've NEVER had this kind of level gap in an RPG.
Mission and side quests, sure fine.
Mission, sidequests.... then rerun mission and side quests four more times? No, that's ridiculous.
You know...that's an interesting theory. Wondering if there's any truth to it.
From my point of view, I haven't even touched DR with my alts yet (and was seriously considering not even bothering honestly), but they're already almost level 53 just from running DOFF missions over the past few weeks. That should make the story progression a bit smoother hopefully.
this.
I ahve five toons that hit 50 before getting to the breen series (one is still doing the borg) and they have 1-2 levels of rep in Rom dyson and undine. and Omega. and that was skipping a LOT of episodes. the last 3 toons havecompletely skipped wasteland except fist full of Gorns, just because I like the purple doff
This is called chinese grind, chinese love it, we not so much, what gives? player spends money on stuff, skill boosters, etc
ty PWE!
I just started a new Tac Romulan to find out if I'm right or wrong lol. So with off and on playing today got toon to 13. So far so good lol. I will make a post when I reach DR story line on my Level.
I have always gotten to level 50 in 1 week so should be fun.
If they would not have removed the used to endgame contend right along with the delta patch things would not be as grim.
Endgame players would simply have been able to level their toons further the way they wanted and nobody would complaint.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Congrats Wilv , you just unlocked "crotchety old man Wilv" !
And no , I'm not making fun of you .
But I have listened to you when you hosted Tribbles , and I think you're a reasonably level headed guy most of the time , so I do think that you have what it takes to understand the following explanation :
Many ppl @ Cryptic are gamers (as are @ many other game developing studios) , and to make it short , monkey see , monkey do .
And the above explains why other gamers (who also play STO) recognize what happened in DR .
I for example did not see the overly long leveling curve for the last 10 levels as something taken from other games . But other gamers recognized this .
What I did see as "borrowed" from other MMO's was the convoluted gear upgrade that also has connections to the new crafting (stuff that I find annoying , which was also unprecedented in STO) .
For myself I keep hoping that once the supposedly missing content from DR will get introduced , that that will normalize somewhat the lack of stuff to do in the leveling curve ... , and that what we have to deal with now is essentially DR Beta .
But what I also learned is that you should be at Level 55-56 (or preferably higher) before you start doing DR as it is now ... , if you want to have a pleasant and unbroken story experience .
And speaking of experience ... -- my preference is to slow down my consumption of DR ... , as the longer it takes , the longer I can push off it ending , and having to deal (or possibly quitting over) the state of the queues HP and it's messed up awards .
Play a Foundry Spotlight, with Investigate Officer Reports active.
Complete all the Deferi dailies.
Complete all the Eta Eridani dailies.
Play Borg Disconnected (normal).
Play Cure Found (advanced).
Complete the daily task in Sphere Allied Space.
Complete five found missions in the Kobali war zone.
Play a Federation Fleet Alert.
Do the Academy Lore daily.
Get the XP from about 10 completed DOFF missions.
Do a Patrol mission in the Delta Quadrant.
It's really kind of frustrating. I keep seeing posts on Twitter about how amazing Kestrel's story is, and I want to experience it for myself, but I can't, because the game won't let me without first grinding all the old content that I had already ground hundreds of times before DR was released. I had initially planned that my main character would not leave the Delta Quadrant until he had reached the end of the storyline there, but that soon proved to be impossible - there was just no way to get from level 51 to 52 (no access to Kobali yet) without going back to the Alpha/Beta Quadrants.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
First.
Anyone that knows me personally is aware of a few things.
1, I've BEEN a "crotchety old man". I have very little patience for other people's nonsense.
2, I'm a level headed guy most of the time but when I loose it, I do so with style.
3, I hate the forums. I usually avoid them like the plague. So if I'm feeling strongly enough about something to get past my hatred and get on here you better believe it's going to be a strong post.
4, I love this game and respect the people that make it. I've had the pleasure of meeting some of them in person and they're great people who really seem to love what they're doing. However, I'm not a "yes" man. I'm not going to blindly praise the game or the team when I feel that they've clearly screwed up. Never have, never will.
Second
I've played many MMOs including WoW, DCUO and SWG. So I'm aware of what other games do. It's not like the similarities escaped me. When I played through DR I kept thinking about how much it reminded me of the awful level grind in WoW. Again, it PROBABLY wouldn't have felt so maddeningly awful IF there was more to do, but there wasn't. By my fourth run of mind scape I was sick of the entire mission.
You lasted 4 runs through that mission? I was sick of it going thru it the first time.
I don't have a problem with it taking longer to level up as I think it should have been that way for all levels 1-60 like prior to F2P launch. There needs to be content that's unique to get you there vs. re-hashing the same stuff over and over. It remionds me of the KDF experience years ago. Maybe for a new captain who is starting today it's a better progression because you will want to play the entire story to get to 60. (All those missions in Romulan and Cardassian space that you pretty much skip on your alts since you make it to 50 and start the rep grinds.) I haven't started any new toons since DR launched and I probably wont since I have 15 to level up already. I may even delete a few since the leveling is so dogged and the game has increased ten-fold in resource requirements while those resources have become more scarce.
I think Cryptic created this mess when they made level progression 1-50 take a couple days so you could get to the money/grind fest at level 50. Now folks are spoiled and want to complete 50 to 60 in a day or two. The worst is post 60. I just don't like the artificially inflated XP goals created by increasing the amount needed while decreasing the amount rewarded the higher up you go. Elite also makes no sense now since I can run normal mode multiple times in the time it takes to play elite once and actually get quite a bit more XP on normal. What riles me the most is at level 60 you get no XP for kills on Kobali Prime. What game doesn't give you XP for killing enemies?
I'm hopeful there will be more balancing of the difficulty vs. reward post level 60. One of my friends told me they aren't even playing the game right now because they are waiting for things to get smoothed out and they will play the new stuff when the dust settles.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
People aren't "spoiled". If it's how 90% of the game works it stands to reason that players expect the other 10% to work the same. Again, I don't personally care how "other" games do it. If I wanted to have a WoW like experience I would play WoW. I could just as easily compare this game to DCUO. It takes less than 2 days to reach max level in that game because the team for that game feel that the fun in the game is in the endgame content, not in the level grind.
As MMOs go, levelling is VERY fast in STO, even with the changes, and is still plenty fast enough for all but the most impatient.
Before the changes you could hit the level 50 cap in 3 days quite easily, and I am fairly certain this hasn't changed. Post level 50 it takes about 10 days to reach level 60.
MMOs, you are SUPPOSED to level more slowly the closer to the cap you get. Heck, I know of at least one where it takes about 1 year to get from level 102 to level 105 for example..
This is an MMO, the play experience isn't supposed to be a linear progression through the story only. If you want progression via story, you'd prefer a single player RPG.
Also, with all due respect, the opinions and wants of the people who don't agree with you are just as valid and important as yours.
Leveling can be as slow as they want, but there needs to be content to fill it.
I didn't have to farm instances over and over again in WoW to "unlock" the next quest hub or zone, it all followed each other seamlessly.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Like every single other MMO you mean?
Oh and I have played DCUO, you have to "grind" just the same, and levelling is slower there not faster.
I wont argue however that more story driven content would be an improvement. Have you seen the player reactions though just lately to ANYTHING that gets added to the game? It's hardly motivational....
Maybe leveling gets way more difficult at 50+, or maybe it's just that I've been playing on Elite from the start and that gives me a sizable advantage in leveling time, but I've actually found the level progression to be a little quick in this game so far.
Levelling 50+ gets a tiny bit slower. I am a fairly casual player (I have a LOT I do in any 1 week, been in an amateur dramatics group, web series cast, invertebrate keepers club, amphibian keepers club, 4 daughters, a wife blah blah blah. lol) and managed to go from 50 to 60 in 10 days (I didn't even play every single one of those 10 days, as I don't always have the time to get on).
I do however have an LTS, which speeds up levelling a little. But if you halve the speed it took me, then that's still only 20 days.
As to the idea that it might be the "end game" content that's good here. Really? Since when?
Just wait for double XP weekend, load up do alts, profit. Personally Only doing it 3 times as my other 6 alts, are being set up for fun Star Trek Battles stuff.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Please, don't come at me with some simple minded, narrow view of how an MMO is "supposed" to work. Not all games conform to the same model or player base. Again, I point out DCUO, which has a completely different approach to it's leveling process and what they think is enjoyable in an MMO.
Why not? You are. I am just as entitled to my opinions, and to post these, as you are.
Heck, if you aren't going to post an argument beyond just trying to insult me, and tell me that my opinion is wrong, then why actually post? You aren't actually going to persuade anybody to your view point like that.
The progression is way easy 1-50 especially if you are playing elite you get xp super fast. 50 to 60 is still better xp but once you hit 60 the xp turns to a fraction of what it was. The real grind for you will start at 50 when you will earn your reps while leveling up your toon to 60. PvEs aren't a must but you will most likely be teaming with others to do your reps and earn your marks. The game changes 50+ as you need a world of varying currencies for different gear, etc.
The nice part is with a new toon who has leveled on elite there is plenty of story for you to keep playing all the way to 60. Its the other stuff that will become tedious. I want to try a new toon from scratch to see how far I get in the story before I hit 60 from the beginning but I already have too many.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I wasn't aware I had to persuade you. I am not trying to persuade you. People like you, who think all MMOs should be the same are beyond persuading. People like you will forever say this game should be more like that game or that game should be more like this one. The idea of diversity doesn't even register with you guys.
Heaven forbid different games cater to a different playing style. Or that different games have a different approach to level progression or story telling.
You're entitled to your opinion. You seem to think ALL MMOs should work the same way.
I'm entitled to MY opinion. I think that's asinine and simple minded. If ALL MMOs worked the same way why would anyone want to play something different.
I don't want to play WoW with a Star Trek skin, or DCUO with a Star Trek skin. I want to play STO.
I don't know what version of DCUO you're playing. It takes a day and a half, maybe two days, to get from level 1 to 30 in DCUO. The first 10 levels you can probably whip out in less than an hour. The leveling process isn't a grind in DCUO. You go from one mission to the next seamlessly. That USED to be the case with STO. As of DR, it's not.
Yes, there is a gear grind once you reach the endgame content in DCUO but that's typical of almost every MMO. Once you reach top level you have to grind out that end game loot. That's not what I'm complaining about though. I've never had a problem with the endgame gear grind in STO, mostly because I just don't do it. Why? Because it's boring and repetitive.
Unlike some of you, I'm not saying the last 10 levels of STO should be like another MMO. I just want the last 10 levels of STO to be in par with the REST of STO. Level 1-50 of STO flows smoothly from one mission to the next. However the leveling experience from 50-60 is NOT smooth.
As I and many others have said SEVERAL times before, most of us don't mind how long it's taking to get from 50 to 60. We mind that there are huge level gaps between missions and that the only way to bridge those gaps is by doing boring and repetitive patrols or extremely long episodes (that hardly give out SP) over and over and over..
There's a huge difference there. The latter would be a problem with the leveling process, but the former is a problem with having "wasted" all the mission rewards due to the previous level cap.