Competitive business??? They're the only company with a star trek mmo.
Hahaha it's fun when you say something like that and don't even realize mac users can't even login... I think? Did they fix that btw? Far more buggy? Hmm, maybe you should take up serious PvP, let me know how that goes mwahaha.
Ah. But here's where people with monopolies get dumb.
When you have no competition for a specific product (via intellectual property/copyright/trademark/patent/regulation)...
You STILL have two major competitors.
1) The first is fairly obvious: your monopoly is imperfect. You may control a product but you don't control the customer needs that drive them to purchase that product. And you not only shouldn't but you can't, absolutely. So you still face substitute competitors. Now, things like brand loyalty will make those competitors disadvantaged but, well, combinations make all things possible...
People who want a space MMO can play another space MMO.
People who want to consume Star Trek can consume Star Trek.
Eventually, customers who get furstrated enough will go play another space game and put Star Trek on Netflix while they play.
2) The second is perhaps less obvious but is something a smart monopoly or oligopoly recognizes.
You face the threat of competition from your past self and investors and the public's perception of your future self. But most importantly, you have competition from all possible versions of yourself and this isn't just a quantum physics thing but an economics thing.
You incur the opportunity cost of the next best alternative to the decision you make. You may think you have no competitors but you're wrong. Because even with no competitors, the next best alternative still exists: it's what you could have made. If a hypothetical version of you is outcompeting you, you have incurred an economic loss.
I expect some folks in managerial roles may handwave that but the reality is that they benefit from that every day. If you're making $150k, for example, managing this game, you are well past the point of being paid purely for productivity. You're being paid what it takes to keep you in your job. In essence, your financial benefits plus quality of life/perks are in direct competition with the alternate/hypothetical version of you who quits and takes another job.
And why exactly should players raise tickets and hope that things get reverted, provide screenshots and all sorts of data? Cryptic cannot make mistakes, they made that clear, it's the players who do things wrong.
Anyway I give anyone very little, actualy no chance, that Cryptic will admit they made a mistake and give specialization points back. Cryptic just say "I have looked into the claim that some players were not using the exploit maps, but so far every claim I have come across has not held up under data pulls."
In other words even if a player is right Cryptic will say you are NOT!
Cryptic just say "I have looked into the claim that some players were not using the exploit maps, but so far every claim I have come across has not held up under data pulls."
In other words even if a player is right Cryptic will say you are NOT!
Those were his verbatim words, right?! I think it means "We have singled out a few maps that paid out too much on Elite. We don't really care whether you solo-ed, teamed, or whether it was even your responsibilty to know how we intended the XP gain to be. You were there, and playing on Elite: that makes you guilty."
Those were his verbatim words, right?! I think it means "We have singled out a few maps that paid out too much on Elite. We don't really care whether you solo-ed, teamed, or whether it was even your responsibilty to know how we intended the XP gain to be. You were there, and playing on Elite: that makes you guilty."
no no if you was playing on Elite anywhere and doing to much DPS you are guilty
Those were his verbatim words, right?! I think it means "We have singled out a few maps that paid out too much on Elite. We don't really care whether you solo-ed, teamed, or whether it was even your responsibilty to know how we intended the XP gain to be. You were there, and playing on Elite: that makes you guilty."
^ Literally this.
I played in tau dewa, I played ALONE, I played on elite difficulty. I got punished and my points/xp taken away. I do 20-25k dps now, of course I'll be leveling fast.
Is there an ignore button on these forums for people who can't make coherent arguments for their points?
Do you seriously believe what you wrote?
Go re-read D'Angelo's post.
A lot of us read his post .
From the mostly clueless players , to the High Math guys in the DPS channels .
Most of us came to nearly the same conclusions ... namely that we were wrongly accused on two counts :
1) Of knowingly cheating .
2) Of not playing "as intended" while using the very mechanics that were put in game by Cryptic , such as teaming , playing at high difficulty levels and using XP boosts that Cryptic sell .
Most of us also think that we were wrongly accused to make Cryptic look good (instead of the other way around) , and most of us see the XP nerf as the proverbial Arrow to the Knee in DR leveling .
Everyone admits they found the bug an were aware of them on tribble. They knew it was wrong. They chose to exploit the bug to gain an advantage over other players. In some cases they pulled their friends in with them as well and convinced them it was okay. (these are not friends i would have lol trust me on that one i am picky hehe). They got burned and now they are angry, but wait the devs let people keep some of the progress (which was actually very kind of them) they could have taken it all away or worse, but they decided to find a happy medium. I personally think that was very good of cryptic to do that. They levelled the playing field without over penalizing the participants.
The more money people have spend on this game the more likely the level of anger increased because of what Cryptic did.
I said it before its not smart to bite the hand that feeds you, it's not smart to punish players.
I played in tau dewa, I played ALONE, I played on elite difficulty. I got punished and my points/xp taken away. I do 20-25k dps now, of course I'll be leveling fast.
Think I dipped into Carraya a few times solo, just to test out some new upgrades, now that you mention it. I believe the stuff there might have been stuck at 50, which was amusing at the time. :P
for those of you b****in and moaning just stop you knew what you were doing ,no one told you to stick your hand in the cookie jar and pull out a handful of cookies. you get what you deserve, if you dont like it leave more fun for me
Despite what you feel the company is not out to get you they dont sit in little dark rooms thinking up ways to mess with their customers and make them angry. They have created a product meant to entertain people and they hope your entertained by it.
Considering that their "wanted" ad included the line "passion for monetizing" -- I'm not too sure about the above statement .
If not oh well I guess it was fun for awhile.
Your care for your fellow players plights is touching . :rolleyes:
I guess they can just go an play one of the other Trek MMO's out there ... .
for those of you b****in and moaning just stop you knew what you were doing ,no one told you to stick your hand in the cookie jar and pull out a handful of cookies. you get what you deserve, if you dont like it leave more fun for me
Do you work at being a moron, or does it come naturally?
These "mechanics" haven been in place WELL before DR hit, low levels use to go to tau dewa all the time to level up, as the best XP was there.
ALSO, this was reported on tribble, along with all the bugs you're now seeing. Did cryptic do anything? No, they pretty much released it straight to holodeck as is.
As some people speculated, this was more about the delta quadrant being empty than anything else, also the way players were treated and that it was their fault for mechanics that cryptic KNEW ABOUT for a long time now.
Do you work at being a moron, or does it come naturally?
These "mechanics" haven been in place WELL before DR hit, low levels use to go to tau dewa all the time to level up, as the best XP was there.
ALSO, this was reported on tribble, along with all the bugs you're now seeing. Did cryptic do anything? No, they pretty much released it straight to holodeck as is.
As some people speculated, this was more about the delta quadrant being empty than anything else, also the way players were treated and that it was their fault for mechanics that cryptic KNEW ABOUT for a long time now.
they prob didnt think it was a priority until hundreds of players CHOSE to abuse it all at the same time, chalk it up to poorjudgement for actually trusting their own playerbase. still doesn't excuse the offenders
they prob didnt think it was a priority until hundreds of players CHOSE to abuse it all at the same time, chalk it up to poorjudgement for actually trusting their own playerbase. still doesn't excuse the offenders
TD was always like that.
It was never been considered an exploit until now.
Hell, STO has some of the fastest leveling in any MMO pre-DR. They even had a solid 3+ week event of double XP.
they prob didnt think it was a priority until hundreds of players CHOSE to abuse it all at the same time, chalk it up to poorjudgement for actually trusting their own playerbase. still doesn't excuse the offenders
It is pretty much as the person who responded right after you said, but put another way, we could always get that much XP even if it was pointless for several years after capping at 50. Now that we actually NEED XP past 50, it's suddenly an exploit?
It is pretty much as the person who responded right after you said, but put another way, we could always get that much XP even if it was pointless for several years after capping at 50. Now that we actually NEED XP past 50, it's suddenly an exploit?
um, maybe because as you said, it didn't effect anything
TD was always like that.
It was never been considered an exploit until now.
Hell, STO has some of the fastest leveling in any MMO pre-DR. They even had a solid 3+ week event of double XP.
Why would they go 180 on fast leveling now?
that's actually a good question considering I suspect the reason for fast leveling in the first place is actually a blatent cash grab because players don't spend money on ships and such until they cap
um, maybe because as you said, it didn't effect anything
And for how many years was STO like this?
Then to change it in one exp and expect everyone not to continue as it was since the game's release?
They did nothing to communicate this with anyone. Suddenly normal leveling became TOO FAST!
The blame is all on Cryptic.
And I'm the type who hates how fast you level in this game.
So what the heck was the exploit that ended up being the reason for spec points taken? Was running Argala an exploit? Meaning if you got say 15 levels in Argala you'd loose the 5 of them? Because yeah, at least then I'd see why exactly you took my spec points.
But, if only running teamed Tau Dewa was basis for the 10 levels tops rule, then there's absolutely no reason to take any spec points from me. (I believe the only time I was ever teamed in that last week was for a single run of Borg Disconnected.)
If running a couple Tau Dewa patrols alone was reason enough for the 10 levels tops rule, then I'd unhappily understand. Though I'd call it not fair as I hardly got a single level worth of xp from them.
Definitely expect me to contact support about that, because you made quite a mess and still haven't explained.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
So what the heck was the exploit that ended up being the reason for spec points taken? Was running Argala an exploit? Meaning if you got say 15 levels in Argala you'd loose the 5 of them? Because yeah, at least then I'd see why exactly you took my spec points.
But, if only running teamed Tau Dewa was basis for the 10 levels tops rule, then there's absolutely no reason to take any spec points from me. (I believe the only time I was ever teamed in that last week was for a single run of Borg Disconnected.)
If running a couple Tau Dewa patrols alone was reason enough for the 10 levels tops rule, then I'd unhappily understand. Though I'd call it not fair as I hardly got a single level worth of xp from them.
Definitely expect me to contact support about that, because you made quite a mess and still haven't explained.
Yeah, it's been rather vague on what the exploit was.
I thought it was people using the team system to artificially lower npc levels or something.
But after reading dev responses... I haven't a clue anymore. Seems now it was just people leveling too fast. I mean, hell, of course a dps build will steamroll through this and gain lots of xp.
for those of you b****in and moaning just stop you knew what you were doing ,no one told you to stick your hand in the cookie jar and pull out a handful of cookies. you get what you deserve, if you dont like it leave more fun for me
Again, and this goes to anyone going along with "17x the xp rate is clearly exploiting" nonsense:
How are enemies that have 5-8x the hitpoints and give 5x the xp supposed to intuitively strike someone as being out of proportion?
"No one told you to stick your hand in the cookie jar"
1) We're mostly grown adults here, we don't suddenly decide to meekly and submissively wait for permission to do what we've been doing for 2+ years.
2) We in fact were specifically told to grind for advancement, then people were punished for grinding to advance in an efficient manner in content they were familiar with. If anything, missions going from ~10-15 minutes to an hour is what felt like "off the baseline" to most players.
The number of people acting like the idea of xp/skill point farming being easy to do in an organized group of glass cannon ships is something that never happened until a "bug" introduced on Oct 14th opened an "exploit" in the game is reaching that scary group hallucination level.
The devs have this Ministry of Truth thing down pretty good, it seems.
So what the heck was the exploit that ended up being the reason for spec points taken? Was running Argala an exploit? Meaning if you got say 15 levels in Argala you'd loose the 5 of them? Because yeah, at least then I'd see why exactly you took my spec points.
But, if only running teamed Tau Dewa was basis for the 10 levels tops rule, then there's absolutely no reason to take any spec points from me. (I believe the only time I was ever teamed in that last week was for a single run of Borg Disconnected.)
If running a couple Tau Dewa patrols alone was reason enough for the 10 levels tops rule, then I'd unhappily understand. Though I'd call it not fair as I hardly got a single level worth of xp from them.
Definitely expect me to contact support about that, because you made quite a mess and still haven't explained.
The "exploit" was...
Playing the game in such a manner that the Owners of the game decided was detrimental to Their monetary gain..., after the fact.
They decided that with the Delta Rising expansion, They didn't want the players to get from level 50 to level 60, in the same amount of time that one use to be able to get from level 1 to level 50.
They just neglected to mention, that any part of the game that hadn't been "fixed" to severely slow the players progress, was "Off Limits".
Thus the players joyfully went about their way 'playing' the game.
Essentially, Cryptic decided to "Close the Barn door and Lock it, After the Horses had Already Run Away and Took the Cows, Pigs and Chickens with them."
Truly an EPIC misadventure in the land of Old McDonald.
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
for those of you b****in and moaning just stop you knew what you were doing ,no one told you to stick your hand in the cookie jar and pull out a handful of cookies. you get what you deserve, if you dont like it leave more fun for me
I don't think everyone affected did.
And if one person got affected wrongly, I think it makes a blanket rollback a bad call.
Again, and this goes to anyone going along with "17x the xp rate is clearly exploiting" nonsense:
How are enemies that have 5-8x the hitpoints and give 5x the xp supposed to intuitively strike someone as being out of proportion?
"No one told you to stick your hand in the cookie jar"
1) We're mostly grown adults here, we don't suddenly decide to meekly and submissively wait for permission to do what we've been doing for 2+ years.
2) We in fact were specifically told to grind for advancement, then people were punished for grinding to advance in an efficient manner in content they were familiar with. If anything, missions going from ~10-15 minutes to an hour is what felt like "off the baseline" to most players.
The number of people acting like the idea of xp/skill point farming being easy to do in an organized group of glass cannon ships is something that never happened until a "bug" introduced on Oct 14th opened an "exploit" in the game is reaching that scary group hallucination level.
The devs have this Ministry of Truth thing down pretty good, it seems.
leveling up at a rate so ridiculously out of proportion with any and all of the other content in the game should have been a really REALLY big clue
leveling up at a rate so ridiculously out of proportion with any and all of the other content in the game should have been a really REALLY big clue
Actually you'd be surprised. Maybe you haven't noticed this ever but there are plenty of people in the world who are so darn intelligent in a lot of ways, but then you find that in other ways they are rather clueless.
I mean some people will inevitably be trying to defend themselves even though they knew, but one has to realise that there are going to be people caught up in it that simply didn't know.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
leveling up at a rate so ridiculously out of proportion with any and all of the other content in the game should have been a really REALLY big clue
Well then please explain to me, why the leveling pace should be a clue if for many years it was possible to level one toon from 1-50 in 1-3 days. And the leveling pace after 60 was similar for high DPS ships or even slower for people that take standard ships with standard MKXII gear/weapons?
Comments
Ah. But here's where people with monopolies get dumb.
When you have no competition for a specific product (via intellectual property/copyright/trademark/patent/regulation)...
You STILL have two major competitors.
1) The first is fairly obvious: your monopoly is imperfect. You may control a product but you don't control the customer needs that drive them to purchase that product. And you not only shouldn't but you can't, absolutely. So you still face substitute competitors. Now, things like brand loyalty will make those competitors disadvantaged but, well, combinations make all things possible...
People who want a space MMO can play another space MMO.
People who want to consume Star Trek can consume Star Trek.
Eventually, customers who get furstrated enough will go play another space game and put Star Trek on Netflix while they play.
2) The second is perhaps less obvious but is something a smart monopoly or oligopoly recognizes.
You face the threat of competition from your past self and investors and the public's perception of your future self. But most importantly, you have competition from all possible versions of yourself and this isn't just a quantum physics thing but an economics thing.
You incur the opportunity cost of the next best alternative to the decision you make. You may think you have no competitors but you're wrong. Because even with no competitors, the next best alternative still exists: it's what you could have made. If a hypothetical version of you is outcompeting you, you have incurred an economic loss.
I expect some folks in managerial roles may handwave that but the reality is that they benefit from that every day. If you're making $150k, for example, managing this game, you are well past the point of being paid purely for productivity. You're being paid what it takes to keep you in your job. In essence, your financial benefits plus quality of life/perks are in direct competition with the alternate/hypothetical version of you who quits and takes another job.
Anyway I give anyone very little, actualy no chance, that Cryptic will admit they made a mistake and give specialization points back. Cryptic just say "I have looked into the claim that some players were not using the exploit maps, but so far every claim I have come across has not held up under data pulls."
In other words even if a player is right Cryptic will say you are NOT!
Those were his verbatim words, right?! I think it means "We have singled out a few maps that paid out too much on Elite. We don't really care whether you solo-ed, teamed, or whether it was even your responsibilty to know how we intended the XP gain to be. You were there, and playing on Elite: that makes you guilty."
no no if you was playing on Elite anywhere and doing to much DPS you are guilty
system Lord Baal is dead
^ Literally this.
I played in tau dewa, I played ALONE, I played on elite difficulty. I got punished and my points/xp taken away. I do 20-25k dps now, of course I'll be leveling fast.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
A lot of us read his post .
From the mostly clueless players , to the High Math guys in the DPS channels .
Most of us came to nearly the same conclusions ... namely that we were wrongly accused on two counts :
1) Of knowingly cheating .
2) Of not playing "as intended" while using the very mechanics that were put in game by Cryptic , such as teaming , playing at high difficulty levels and using XP boosts that Cryptic sell .
Most of us also think that we were wrongly accused to make Cryptic look good (instead of the other way around) , and most of us see the XP nerf as the proverbial Arrow to the Knee in DR leveling .
... but you keep drinking the Kool Aid ...
The more money people have spend on this game the more likely the level of anger increased because of what Cryptic did.
I said it before its not smart to bite the hand that feeds you, it's not smart to punish players.
Think I dipped into Carraya a few times solo, just to test out some new upgrades, now that you mention it. I believe the stuff there might have been stuck at 50, which was amusing at the time. :P
Considering that their "wanted" ad included the line "passion for monetizing" -- I'm not too sure about the above statement .
Your care for your fellow players plights is touching . :rolleyes:
I guess they can just go an play one of the other Trek MMO's out there ... .
Do you work at being a moron, or does it come naturally?
These "mechanics" haven been in place WELL before DR hit, low levels use to go to tau dewa all the time to level up, as the best XP was there.
ALSO, this was reported on tribble, along with all the bugs you're now seeing. Did cryptic do anything? No, they pretty much released it straight to holodeck as is.
As some people speculated, this was more about the delta quadrant being empty than anything else, also the way players were treated and that it was their fault for mechanics that cryptic KNEW ABOUT for a long time now.
they prob didnt think it was a priority until hundreds of players CHOSE to abuse it all at the same time, chalk it up to poorjudgement for actually trusting their own playerbase. still doesn't excuse the offenders
TD was always like that.
It was never been considered an exploit until now.
Hell, STO has some of the fastest leveling in any MMO pre-DR. They even had a solid 3+ week event of double XP.
Why would they go 180 on fast leveling now?
It is pretty much as the person who responded right after you said, but put another way, we could always get that much XP even if it was pointless for several years after capping at 50. Now that we actually NEED XP past 50, it's suddenly an exploit?
um, maybe because as you said, it didn't effect anything
that's actually a good question considering I suspect the reason for fast leveling in the first place is actually a blatent cash grab because players don't spend money on ships and such until they cap
And for how many years was STO like this?
Then to change it in one exp and expect everyone not to continue as it was since the game's release?
They did nothing to communicate this with anyone. Suddenly normal leveling became TOO FAST!
The blame is all on Cryptic.
And I'm the type who hates how fast you level in this game.
So what the heck was the exploit that ended up being the reason for spec points taken? Was running Argala an exploit? Meaning if you got say 15 levels in Argala you'd loose the 5 of them? Because yeah, at least then I'd see why exactly you took my spec points.
But, if only running teamed Tau Dewa was basis for the 10 levels tops rule, then there's absolutely no reason to take any spec points from me. (I believe the only time I was ever teamed in that last week was for a single run of Borg Disconnected.)
If running a couple Tau Dewa patrols alone was reason enough for the 10 levels tops rule, then I'd unhappily understand. Though I'd call it not fair as I hardly got a single level worth of xp from them.
Definitely expect me to contact support about that, because you made quite a mess and still haven't explained.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Yeah, it's been rather vague on what the exploit was.
I thought it was people using the team system to artificially lower npc levels or something.
But after reading dev responses... I haven't a clue anymore. Seems now it was just people leveling too fast. I mean, hell, of course a dps build will steamroll through this and gain lots of xp.
Again, and this goes to anyone going along with "17x the xp rate is clearly exploiting" nonsense:
How are enemies that have 5-8x the hitpoints and give 5x the xp supposed to intuitively strike someone as being out of proportion?
"No one told you to stick your hand in the cookie jar"
1) We're mostly grown adults here, we don't suddenly decide to meekly and submissively wait for permission to do what we've been doing for 2+ years.
2) We in fact were specifically told to grind for advancement, then people were punished for grinding to advance in an efficient manner in content they were familiar with. If anything, missions going from ~10-15 minutes to an hour is what felt like "off the baseline" to most players.
The number of people acting like the idea of xp/skill point farming being easy to do in an organized group of glass cannon ships is something that never happened until a "bug" introduced on Oct 14th opened an "exploit" in the game is reaching that scary group hallucination level.
The devs have this Ministry of Truth thing down pretty good, it seems.
The "exploit" was...
Playing the game in such a manner that the Owners of the game decided was detrimental to Their monetary gain..., after the fact.
They decided that with the Delta Rising expansion, They didn't want the players to get from level 50 to level 60, in the same amount of time that one use to be able to get from level 1 to level 50.
They just neglected to mention, that any part of the game that hadn't been "fixed" to severely slow the players progress, was "Off Limits".
Thus the players joyfully went about their way 'playing' the game.
Essentially, Cryptic decided to "Close the Barn door and Lock it, After the Horses had Already Run Away and Took the Cows, Pigs and Chickens with them."
Truly an EPIC misadventure in the land of Old McDonald.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I don't think everyone affected did.
And if one person got affected wrongly, I think it makes a blanket rollback a bad call.
leveling up at a rate so ridiculously out of proportion with any and all of the other content in the game should have been a really REALLY big clue
Actually you'd be surprised. Maybe you haven't noticed this ever but there are plenty of people in the world who are so darn intelligent in a lot of ways, but then you find that in other ways they are rather clueless.
I mean some people will inevitably be trying to defend themselves even though they knew, but one has to realise that there are going to be people caught up in it that simply didn't know.
Well then please explain to me, why the leveling pace should be a clue if for many years it was possible to level one toon from 1-50 in 1-3 days. And the leveling pace after 60 was similar for high DPS ships or even slower for people that take standard ships with standard MKXII gear/weapons?
I am not saying everyone deserved and, I am not saying they didn't deserve it.
All I am saying is, that Cryptic deemed people were deserving of it and, there really isn't much you can do about it so, stop whining.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!