Benthan Assault Cruiser let-down?!

meimeitoo · October 2014

Am I the only one being a bit disapointed with the Benthan Cruiser?

With only a Lt. Cmdr. Tact slot, BFAW2 is, realistically, the best you can get out of it (if you want to forego on ATO1). You could use 3 Tact stations, in total, if you want, but 2 of those are only Lt. seatings.

The Cmdr. Engineering slot was expected, of course. But, if you want to use the Lt. Uni for Eng (for, say, 4-way chained EPtS1/EPtW2), then Tact is going to be rather cramped.

Personally, I prefer an ATO1/ATD1 combo, with 2 Zemoks, for perma-resists (I don't like having to slot armor consoles). That setup is not a must: 2x A2D1 will pretty much work for this too. So, currently I have:

EPTS1, EPTW2
TT1, BFAW2, ATO1
BFAW1, AD1
EPTS1, EPTW2, A2D2, A2SiF3
TSS1, HE2

Don't get me wrong, cycling both ATO1/ATD1 and A2D2/A2SiF3, you're as good as untakable. DPS just sucks, is all. I do 13k in this (vs. ca. 22k in my Aquatic T5U Carrier).

And for a T6 it kinda sucks. With only a pathetic Lt. Intel slot (really, Cryptic!?), which also usurps the place of your Sci heals, it's kinda pointless. It should have come with an Intel Cmdr. Engineer, instead. This is a cruiser: offering a lowly Lt. Intel slot, to replace your 1 Sci slot, is a bad deal.

Maybe I could swap out the BFAW1 for another TT1, and then use a doff to shorten CD on BFAW2; but I just can't get any decent DPS out of it.

Suggestions are welcome, of course; but, so far, I feel it's a bit of a let-down.

iconians · October 2014

The problem isn't with the ship's tactical capabilities, it's a problem with STO's tactical meta.

Your problems with this particular ship are understandable when you consider that the only parts of a ship anyone cares about is how many fore weapon slots it has, what tactical/universal bridge officer slots there are, and how many tactical console slots it has.

This ship would be really awesome if STO rewarded any kind of gameplay other than DPS, but it doesn't. So your lockbox/lobi ship may be seen as less than optimal.

But make no mistake. It isn't the ship. It's the tactical meta Cryptic has cultivated and done nothing to reign in or alter, except to make cruisers and science ships more like escorts.

szerontzur · October 2014

It's.. an Assault Cruiser.. perhaps your expectations were a bit mismatched?

If you want to compare it to anything, think of it as a T6 Regent.

That said, I do think all the int/sci lt seats T6 get 'stuck' with are kind of.. dumb.

assimilatedktar · October 2014

As someone who was flying an Aventine with a tac LtC and llieutenant I think that the Benthan Assault Cruiser is amazing. 5 tac powers are usually enough and with one engineering commander and 2 sci lieutenants you can make most people who want to destroy you bite their keyboards in frustration. Now it just hast to become cheaper on the exchange.....

simeion1 · October 2014

I don't think it is the ship OP. I think it is the build you put on it. I don't have one and would not suggest one with out seeing a few more. But I have builds for specific ships. You might have to change you play style for this ship to work for you.

antoniosalieri · October 2014

Yes you are the only one.
No seriously though I love that ship.

You need to employ some Intel on there that will help.

Also unless you plan to use the mastery on another ship and dump it that ship does well with a torp or 2 on it.

I have a few of them now mainly cause I wanted the torp so I have tried a few things with it.

One fun thing to do... is put 2 single cannons and 2 torps in the front (crafted + one of the rep) with turrets in the back... I know that isn't optimal for PvE. Well it used to not be. I been running that with protonic polaron + Spread 2 + HY 2 + Scatter 2. Giving up the patterns I know... but running Ionic D takes care of the debuffing of NPCs anyway.

Anyway try it out with an Intel boff in it... run some Intel Team / Ionic Disturbance. The Debuff and extra defense from intel team are nice. Also find room for a torp the Viral torp is pretty evil.
If you can afford to get both the lobi destroyer. The Hazari console + beth is OP. You can also combo the Beth Disable console with a Viral torp to chain disable things. Also the Partner in Arms trait on the destoryer is perfect for the Beth. Anytime you toss someone a heal you get a nice 10s +10% dmg boost and it stacks to 30%. I have been running ET3 doffed + SIF 3 on mine and toss heals in the team stuff like mad for the always on +30% dmg.

quammen · October 2014

It seems to be a fine ship. You could eliminate the need for a second eng Boff by using two Damage Control Doffs. More space for a second Sci oder Intel Powers.

cbrjwrr · October 2014

meimeitoo wrote: »

Suggestions are welcome, of course; but, so far, I feel it's a bit of a let-down.

TT1, APB1, BFAW3,
BFAW1, APB1,
EPTS1, A2SIF1, EPTW3, DEM3,
HE1, ST2, (Lt. Uni)
IT1, Lt. level Intel ability.

It is a very effective ship, lacking only a second TT1/BFAW1 compared to a full on DPS layout.

ddesjardins · October 2014

iconians wrote: »

The problem isn't with the ship's tactical capabilities, it's a problem with STO's tactical meta.

Your problems with this particular ship are understandable when you consider that the only parts of a ship anyone cares about is how many fore weapon slots it has, what tactical/universal bridge officer slots there are, and how many tactical console slots it has.

This ship would be really awesome if STO rewarded any kind of gameplay other than DPS, but it doesn't. So your lockbox/lobi ship may be seen as less than optimal.

But make no mistake. It isn't the ship. It's the tactical meta Cryptic has cultivated and done nothing to reign in or alter, except to make cruisers and science ships more like escorts.

I could not agree more

Well said.

meimeitoo · October 2014

iconians wrote: »

The problem isn't with the ship's tactical capabilities, it's a problem with STO's tactical meta.

Your problems with this particular ship are understandable when you consider that the only parts of a ship anyone cares about is how many fore weapon slots it has, what tactical/universal bridge officer slots there are, and how many tactical console slots it has.

This ship would be really awesome if STO rewarded any kind of gameplay other than DPS, but it doesn't. So your lockbox/lobi ship may be seen as less than optimal.

But make no mistake. It isn't the ship. It's the tactical meta Cryptic has cultivated and done nothing to reign in or alter, except to make cruisers and science ships more like escorts.

^^ Very true!

This ship's mastery skills are awesome: turns you into a supertank. But I could already tank well, and all this game rewards -- especially after DR -- is raw DPS. When I do 13k in this one, vs. 22k in my Aquatic Carrier, then, in those terms, it's a bit of let-down.

Also, the Viral Torp (don't have reached there yet) looks great, but kinda means you're looking at a torp boat. With 8 weapons slots, you simply *need* some BFAW or similar beam weps boost. I see others simply removed ATO. It may well have to come to that.

I can optimize my build some, of course. And maybe I'll do the 3 damage control engineers thingy, so as to be using only 1 Eng station. But, in terms of DPS, ppl rather see me show up in an Advanced in my Aquatic Carrier than my Bentham, is the point.

whiteshores · October 2014

Couldn't disagree more.

I switched from a Xindi-Aquatic Narcine Carrier to a Guardian, which I had been looking forward to. I'm a Tac captain who likes to fly those big cruisers. Unfortunately, the ship disappointed me. It felt sluggish and, while durable, it just didn't live up to expectations.

A friend then gave me the Benthan, and I fell in love with the thing. It's certaintly a Tac leaning ship which still lives up to its cruiser roots with its engineering slots. It can take a beating and give it back, and for a cruiser, it turns so quickly! I had no trouble making use of all beams (full beam setup) at any time. Haven't yet gone kaput in the encounters I've been through.

My only complaint is that it's so tiny! About the length of an Ambassador class, I think I noted while in the Sol system. Give me a new Tac-leaning cruiser that takes up too much space, please.

On the whole, very satisfied with the Benthan assault cruiser. It's now my Tac captain's primary ship.

virusdancer · October 2014

szerontzur wrote: »

If you want to compare it to anything, think of it as a T6 Regent.

Pretty much a more maneuverable FACR with a Lt Tac instead of an En Tac...

...and well, a little here and a little there.

rattler2 · October 2014

Hm... I might want a Benthan Cruiser some day. I'm a veteran ACR Captain flying a Guardian right now.

dontdrunkimshoot · October 2014

cruisers with that much tac and a LT intel station should be pretty foolproof. its Intel station may be its only sci station, but its got a LT uni too, use it for sci skills. with a LTC and LT tac, its got to much built in tac for an AtB build to be a good choice. with just a COM eng you can fit 2 different EPt skills and keep them both running with damage control doffs, then you got a LTC and COM eng slot left were you could put any combination of ET3, AtS, AtD, RSP or DEM you like.

for intel skills, use 2 copies of subsystem safety override, and if your not happy with the DPS now, you will be after.

probably best to put all beams on it, use TT1, FAW1, FAW2, APB1, APB2, and a purple TT conn doff to keep TT up time good. farm of buy for ~75000 some mkXII [acc]x3 phaser beams from the DR missions, and you got next to free really good beam weapons to start with

whiteshores · October 2014

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

cruisers with that much tac and a LT intel station should be pretty foolproof. its Intel station may be its only sci station, but its got a LT uni too, use it for sci skills. with a LTC and LT tac, its got to much built in tac for an AtB build to be a good choice. with just a COM eng you can fit 2 different EPt skills and keep them both running with damage control doffs, then you got a LTC and COM eng slot left were you could put any combination of ET3, AtS, AtD, RSP or DEM you like.

for intel skills, use 2 copies of subsystem safety override, and if your not happy with the DPS now, you will be after.

probably best to put all beams on it, use TT1, FAW1, FAW2, APB1, APB2, and a purple TT conn doff to keep TT up time good. farm of buy for ~75000 some mkXII [acc]x3 phaser beams from the DR missions, and you got next to free really good beam weapons to start with

I have more or less followed a good bit of your suggestions, but I was not using an Intel officer prior. Had those three purple ones from the Ops pack, though, so I shifted things around. To be clear, you suggest having Safety Override I and II on that same officer?

dontdrunkimshoot · October 2014

whiteshores wrote: »

I have more or less followed a good bit of your suggestions, but I was not using an Intel officer prior. Had those three purple ones from the Ops pack, though, so I shifted things around. To be clear, you suggest having Safety Override I and II on that same officer?

yes, on that intel sci slot the ship has. 2 copies, so you can get the best possible up time with it.

meimeitoo · October 2014

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

cruisers with that much tac and a LT intel station should be pretty foolproof. its Intel station may be its only sci station, but its got a LT uni too, use it for sci skills. with a LTC and LT tac, its got to much built in tac for an AtB build to be a good choice. with just a COM eng you can fit 2 different EPt skills and keep them both running with damage control doffs, then you got a LTC and COM eng slot left were you could put any combination of ET3, AtS, AtD, RSP or DEM you like.

for intel skills, use 2 copies of subsystem safety override, and if your not happy with the DPS now, you will be after.

probably best to put all beams on it, use TT1, FAW1, FAW2, APB1, APB2, and a purple TT conn doff to keep TT up time good. farm of buy for ~75000 some mkXII [acc]x3 phaser beams from the DR missions, and you got next to free really good beam weapons to start with

Your setup looks promising. Still, what are you gonna do with Viral Torpedo? Looks like either 2 betas, or 2 torp spreads or something. Nonetheless I will try out the safety override thingy with beams first. Thx.

dontdrunkimshoot · October 2014

meimeitoo wrote: »

Your setup looks promising. Still, what are you gonna do with Viral Torpedo? Looks like either 2 betas, or 2 torp spreads or something. Nonetheless I will try out the safety override thingy with beams first. Thx.

unfortunately i only see its trait as useful when you use some other ship

meimeitoo · October 2014

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

unfortunately i only see its trait as useful when you use some other ship

Didn't even know you could do that!

Thx.

dontdrunkimshoot · October 2014

meimeitoo wrote: »

Didn't even know you could do that! Thx.

its a character wide unlock, you can see the trait sloted in the trait tab

meimeitoo · October 2014

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

its a character wide unlock, you can see the trait sloted in the trait tab

Turns out you can use it for non-T6 ships too.

So, even not using the Benthan, the purchase was still useful, as it will mesh nicely with my Grav Torp in general.

I didn't find the Override Safeties all that special, btw, Probably because, as a Fed Engineer, I already have incredible power levels to begin with. And losing, say, my shields in an STF, from the random system-offline thingy, didn't really like that either.

alphacygnus · November 2014

Complete let down: I went into the Mirror Invasion with 2 bonus sets, Level 55 and a lot of firepower/purple BOFFs and all. Punched out 4 times. It is slow, weak and the Contractual Agreement bonus is worthless. The engine dies for no reason in the middle of flight, the turning rate is changing (no joke!) in midflight, the Electro Chromatic magic-harrypotter-wand fires unpredictably into empty space even after the red alert is gone and that is just after 2 weeks flying this magic potion bottle.
Maybe there is a magic setup,maybe I am noobing out, but I have not found anything good about this ship yet. I put a Star Cruiser into the MI event and never died and did pretty good in it. (That is if we consider the MI as a measuring tool of ship worthiness LOL).

svindal777 · November 2014

I'm not disappointed in mine at all. I got 100,000,000EC for it.

Unknown · November 2014

This content has been removed.

somebob · November 2014

TT1, APB1
BFAW1, APB1, BFAW3
EPTW1, RSP1, EPTS3, A2SIF3
ST1, HE2
PH1, TSS2

Full beam ship, 2 Conn DOffs to reduce TT1 to global cooldown, 3 Damage Control Engineers to bring Emergency Power to global cooldown (based on odds). I can tank an army and all but ignore the incoming damage. It's downright silly.

Also, thanks to Reciprocity (off the Phantom Intel Escort), if I'm being shot at, my Tactical powers are all on global cooldown because they keep missing me thanks to an insane 94% Bonus Defense (after being shot in the 'back' a few times (to trigger Intel Pilot Spec - Eat My Dust)). Seriously - my BFAW1 and one of my APB1 are being wasted right now.

Sadly there's nothing better to put in there.

The Benthan Assault Cruiser is seriously a powerhouse.

orangeitis · November 2014

.

iconians wrote: »

The problem isn't with the ship's tactical capabilities, it's a problem with STO's tactical meta.

Your problems with this particular ship are understandable when you consider that the only parts of a ship anyone cares about is how many fore weapon slots it has, what tactical/universal bridge officer slots there are, and how many tactical console slots it has.

This ship would be really awesome if STO rewarded any kind of gameplay other than DPS, but it doesn't. So your lockbox/lobi ship may be seen as less than optimal.

But make no mistake. It isn't the ship. It's the tactical meta Cryptic has cultivated and done nothing to reign in or alter, except to make cruisers and science ships more like escorts.

/thread

synthiasuicide · November 2014

Use it as a normal Beam Boat.
Use 13th Boff slot for override Subsystem Safeties....done.

That ability alone makes it better then other battlecruisers.

@somebob, almost exact same setup, except, that TSS2 for OSS.

IMO if your not using OSS your doing it wrong.

Had the ship givin to me by a friend who came back to try to get back into STO. Had keys saved from long ago. And actually got the ship before logging off. STO still isnt his thing. I figured I wouldn't really care but wanted to try my Rom in a ship without a Singularity Core. Wow, this ship is amazing.

longasc · November 2014

It has 4 Tac consoles, lots of console slots, great maneuverability, hull and shields and you can even fit Intel BOffs in.

You can double up on Attack Patterns and use BFAW-recharge enhancing DOffs and all that.

Someone mentioned Reciprocity, it's a great ship trait to have. I don't use Torpedos on the Benthan so its Viral Torpedo Trait is rather suited for other ships, IMO.

OK, enough. Back to the Mirror Event where skilled Captains die in their Scimitars to a "swarm" of 3 frigates. That is the ridiculous STO reality.

meimeitoo · November 2014

synthiasuicide wrote: »

Use it as a normal Beam Boat.
Use 13th Boff slot for override Subsystem Safeties....done.

That ability alone makes it better then other battlecruisers.

@somebob, almost exact same setup, except, that TSS2 for OSS.

IMO if your not using OSS your doing it wrong.

Had the ship givin to me by a friend who came back to try to get back into STO. Had keys saved from long ago. And actually got the ship before logging off. STO still isnt his thing. I figured I wouldn't really care but wanted to try my Rom in a ship without a Singularity Core. Wow, this ship is amazing.

Hmm, I tried out OSS for a while; didn't impress me much, though (at least not at Lt. level). For one, I needed to give up 3 doffs (for 3 Technicians) to get Engineering going again. And, as a Fed Engineer, I already have an incredible amount of system power at my disposal. Having your shields go offline, though, mid-fight, yeah, I could do without that.

strykewolf67 · November 2014

<<wanders in, reads OP...>>

<<sets up cracker stand>>

<<Crackers...5 zen for a pack of 4>>

:P

assimilatedktar · November 2014

Currently still experimenting with what commander eng ability to use, but otherwise I'm set.

Commander Eng: Engineering Team I, Emergency Power to Shields II, Emergency Power to Shields III, Eject Warp Plasma III
Lieutenant-Commander Tac: Torpedo: Spread I, Beam: Fire at Will II, Torpedo: High Yield III
Lieutenant Tac: Tactical Team I, Beam: Overload II
Lieutenant Sci/Intel: Hazard Emitters I, Transfer Shield Strength II
Lieutenant Uni: Science Team I, Hazard Emitters II

In the front 3 bio-molecular disruptor beam arrays and the bio-molecular set torpedo and in the back 2 bio-molecular disruptor beam arrays, one omnidirectional disruptor beam array and the gravimetric set torpedo.

Benthan Assault Cruiser let-down?!

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