This is a rather interesting comment. So how would you explain the videos being posted of groups completing the new Advanced and Elite queues with all optionals? If others are able to do it, clearly everyone has the potential to do the same. It then becomes a question of build, gear and player experience. From that perspective, "learn to play" is valid.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating cookie cutter builds or being an elitist, just pointing out that it's clear that this new content is doable.
I'm not surprised that people who were building min-max DPS ships before are still doing so, nor have I ever said the content wasn't doable by such players. And Elite difficulty should require that.
Advanced should not require such perfection. Advanced should require a knowledge of the mission objectives and a reasonable grasp of game mechanics. Or in other words, it should be about as hard (or as easy, if you will) as the *old* Elite. And Normal should be for players who don't know anything going in or sub-par players who don't care or have time to progress.
This is a rather interesting comment. So how would you explain the videos being posted of groups completing the new Advanced and Elite queues with all optionals? If others are able to do it, clearly everyone has the potential to do the same. It then becomes a question of build, gear and player experience. From that perspective, "learn to play" is valid.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating cookie cutter builds or being an elitist, just pointing out that it's clear that this new content is doable.
Oh it is of course possible to do these missions... its at least shown in videos... so it must be possible.
However.... its done by people which have the ships and the gear already that allow them to do these missions.
How should somebody who does not have such ships and such gear do the mission if the only way to get hands on such gear is to play the mission.
Its a paradoxon.
You can only win the mission if you have the gear but you can only get the gear if you won the mission.
Smartasses which say that everyone can do the hardest missions forget that not everyone is online 24/7.... that there are ppl which play just to have fun... and that without such casual players this game already would be long dead.
If just enough ppl lose their fun on these missions (and it looks like this is the case atm) and leave the game then delta rising is just about the last season you have got to play.
QQ about Elite mode is hilarious. If it is too hard for you then simply que for normal or advanced. Fixed.
Elite is supposed to be a challenge. I don't think there is a lvl60 character with mk14 gold quality gear yet. Elite is meant to be played with top gear, not the outdated stuff others got now.
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QQ about Elite mode is hilarious. If it is too hard for you then simply que for normal or advanced. Fixed.
Elite is supposed to be a challenge. I don't think there is a lvl60 character with mk14 gold quality gear yet. Elite is meant to be played with top gear, not the outdated stuff others got now.
ppl are complaining about normal or adv. being too hard for most players meanwhile
QQ about Elite mode is hilarious. If it is too hard for you then simply que for normal or advanced. Fixed.
Elite is supposed to be a challenge. I don't think there is a lvl60 character with mk14 gold quality gear yet. Elite is meant to be played with top gear, not the outdated stuff others got now.
I haven't seen any QQ over elite mode...... all teh QQ'ing I've seen is over the difficulty setting for Advanced stuff and entry level queue normal stuff.
QQ about Elite mode is hilarious. If it is too hard for you then simply que for normal or advanced. Fixed.
Elite is supposed to be a challenge. I don't think there is a lvl60 character with mk14 gold quality gear yet. Elite is meant to be played with top gear, not the outdated stuff others got now.
The big deal is the slash to rewards and the extra time it takes to do any of the modes
More work, less loot. Pointless in other words.
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QQ about Elite mode is hilarious. If it is too hard for you then simply que for normal or advanced. Fixed.
Elite is supposed to be a challenge. I don't think there is a lvl60 character with mk14 gold quality gear yet. Elite is meant to be played with top gear, not the outdated stuff others got now.
The irony of this is, that even the normal queues are kinda wonky in numbers. The massive HP scaling affects them aswell.
Of course all thoose 'Elite' players that appreciate the nerf in rewards and the add up of HP to ridicolous numbers just because its a great "Challenge" now will realize that they will have noone left to play any queue with them.
Granted. You can play with your elite friends... but not everyone is online at the same time and sometimes you might want to join a public queue and realize noone queues up for them anymore.
Its not that the majority of the STO players is to dumb or not properly geared for the queues. Its the fact that there is ridicolous amounts of HP and a strict timer in their way to sucessful complete an STF.
At the current state I would say, theres like 1 or 2% of the STO population who could run the queues sucessfull.
So yeah if you dont want it changed you elite guys will find yourselves in your little "Elite Club" waiting all day for your elite friends to come online to finally get a queue going.
Oh and I am not saying this because I fly a crappy ship with crappy gear. No.
I invested quite some time gearing out my ships and work on them loadouts. I own Ultra Rare MK XIV gear and I am no beginner aswell.
Yet I find myself unable to complete the Advanced ones... as are most of my fleetmates, and they surely are no beginners aswell...
While true, Advanced shouldn't be for those in sub-par ships with common gear either. The Devs have posted they intend Advanced and Elite to be for those who "have invested in the game", meaning store bought ships and Fleet/Rep gear.
The big issue is getting what you need as far as drops on Normal to allow you to get gear to advance to Advanced or Elite.
Do you support allowing VR mats and what was the "elite" component to drop from normal queues? Right now my progress through Delta Rep is hindered because there's no real reliable way to get APCs.
If so...is there really a need to have "Advanced" versions versus "Elite" versions?
I don't have an issue with there being an exclusive elite mode queue, what i do have an issue with is that queue will grant special rewards, that i also need to advance, only to those elites who complete it.
I think it would be better if normal and advanced were accessible and to all players, with the best standard kit for the level they are, if you cant complete a queue with gear that's readily available in the game, then what exactly is that gear good for?
Elite queues should yield exactly the same rewards as advanced, the only difference here should be perhaps special accolades, like with no win. Rewards themselves should go back to the way they were.
As it is, the fun has left the game, my years of levelling and experience count for nothing, and even if successful award next to nothing.
But seriously, creating powerful new ships for everyone, then simply making all enemies tougher, and nerfing rewards at the same time, seems at best unbelievable, and at worst like a scam.
Of course all thoose 'Elite' players that appreciate the nerf in rewards and the add up of HP to ridicolous numbers just because its a great "Challenge" now will realize that they will have noone left to play any queue with them.
Absolutely. Let the elite DPS kings look down upon us mere peasants while they scoff "Oh, what ARE you complaining about? Its SOOOOOO easy". Whatever makes them happy. They can be the small minority who can still enjoy endgame and feel superior.
They best enjoy it now though as they'll have precious few people to show it off to within a few months. Players will flock from this game in their thousands, taking their wallets with them. They'll be lucky if they have a game as a result this time next year.
You want feedback?
Ok...
Tell us why you ignored the feedback during beta when this was brought up?
You ignored it then, why should we believe you won't ignore it now?
Agreed, they should at least make the lower level versions of gear not need the elite 'difficulty' items so that you have a better chance of completing the elite content to get the top level gear.
Regular story missions in the Delta quadrant, especially space, take way too long even on normal because of the ridiculous amount of HP that the new enemies have.
People who like Torpedoes and Mines are almost completely shut out because of the pathetic damage they do while shields are up, before it was doable because of DoT from plasma torps but now that doesn't even help.
Queued events are not even worth doing, rewards are far too low for the time it takes to do them. Advanced are almost impossible to pug now, and even normal are a pain. Scale normal back to the way it was, scale Advanced to match the old elite and leave the new elite the way it is for the powergamers and things will be fine.
As it is now there is ONE queued event that gives the new tokens needed for delta rep items, and only advanced drops them which it seems that a large part of the playerbase can't successfully complete because optionals are now a requirement.
I'd say "I can't believe this made it past Tribble", but looking at everything else that's made it past Tribble I was unfortunately not at all surprised.
Scale normal back to the way it was, scale Advanced to match the old elite and leave the new elite the way it is for the powergamers and things will be fine.
Exactly this.
Normal should be low level rewards, generally simple and perfect ways for new players to understand how they work. Advanced should be what the old Elite was - a challenge to a degree, okay rewards and the place most mid-level players will hover and start to really integrate solid endgame builds.
Keep the new Elite for total pro's and give them really amazing rewards for success.
Not that bothered really, only a fully geared alt should shrug off elite like a plum pudding IMO.
However, with the new "check damage" option when you kark it, I would like to know where the BOFF skill "Torpedo -Salvo III" is trained, because it's a reet bastward in my experience.
The devs are working hard to fix the issues. Every expansion will be full of bugs. I can say it is not fun when your team is melting Borg in an advanced stf but yet you still get a failed mission bug.
I just finished my first run through the new Advanced Difficulty. I was lv 53, flying a t5u sci oddy that is fairly well equipped (Dyson Deflector, Engines, Warp Core, Shields with the exp. rom plas array, 1x rom plas array, 1x rom plas DBB and gravi torp up front, 2x rom plas arrays, KCB and Rom hyper plas torp in back.)
My group finished the run, didn't get the optional though.
All in all I think by the time I hit 60 the optional will be eminently doable.
(P.S. Yes, I was in a PUG)
ETA: the only upgraded gear was the Experimantal beam array, KCB and Dyson Warp Core. All of those were Mk XIII purple, everything else mentioned is MK XII purple.
I think new system leaves a lot to be desired and I am not happy with it.
The new advanced should be the old elite, and the rewards should be the same, not equal to the old normal system.
Elite STF's should be whatever you got, but the timer should be increased to give you a good run at it. And of course it should reward more than the old Elites since you are required to do more.
I really hate seeing my main reason for logging in to be total TRIBBLE like what it is now.
This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth for this game. I can't believe the dev's thought this was progress.
:mad: Very upset. I have watched the dev live streams and just an FYI Dev team we don't have god mode. Nor can we just snap our fingers and get anything we want or need. When you test something do it with a legitimate toon next time, no god mode, no max everything and see for your self. For crying out loud you even buffed enemies in pve's like Fleet Alert making it impossible to complete. This isn't even advanced mode. They kill the base by level 3 even with a dedicated sci healer only healing the starbase. I personally give you one week before I cancel my gold membership and walk away for good. I will make it my mission from that point on to deter anyone from ever playing a PwE game again.
You can enjoy the entire game content just doing Normal difficulty. If Advanced is too hard just keep playing on normal.
I want that the fights to have a meaning, not the semi-afk way that was in the pas ISE.
P.S. I die/loose all the time in advanced but that's it, it makes the game more interesting and give a meaning to progression. What was the point in the past to have level12 purple gear - none, lev10 blue and some mirror ship was fine for elites.
:mad: Very upset. I have watched the dev live streams and just an FYI Dev team we don't have god mode. Nor can we just snap our fingers and get anything we want or need. When you test something do it with a legitimate toon next time, no god mode, no max everything and see for your self. For crying out loud you even buffed enemies in pve's like Fleet Alert making it impossible to complete. This isn't even advanced mode. They kill the base by level 3 even with a dedicated sci healer only healing the starbase. I personally give you one week before I cancel my gold membership and walk away for good. I will make it my mission from that point on to deter anyone from ever playing a PwE game again.
Can i have your credits after you sell everything ?
I see we have a Dilithium weekend coming up. Could you at the very least restore the dil rewards to their original values (pre DR) before the Reward weekend starts. This will at least alleviate some of the community upset you have caused with the adjustments and buy you some time to sort out this mission difficulty insanity you've created.
You can enjoy the entire game content just doing Normal difficulty. If Advanced is too hard just keep playing on normal.
I want that the fights to have a meaning, not the semi-afk way that was in the pas ISE.
P.S. I die/loose all the time in advanced but that's it, it makes the game more interesting and give a meaning to progression. What was the point in the past to have level12 purple gear - none, lev10 blue and some mirror ship was fine for elites.
So do elite mode if you want to die more, why do you need advanced too?
You can enjoy the entire game content just doing Normal difficulty. If Advanced is too hard just keep playing on normal.
I want that the fights to have a meaning, not the semi-afk way that was in the pas ISE.
P.S. I die/loose all the time in advanced but that's it, it makes the game more interesting and give a meaning to progression. What was the point in the past to have level12 purple gear - none, lev10 blue and some mirror ship was fine for elites.
Except for one thing. All the Rep gear outside of the rep store is gated behind doing Advanced. Which means you need the gear to do advanced, but to do advanced you need to get the gear.
Just poor planning. As it stands now, once you are ready to get to advanced you still can't because you don't have the gear to up your DPS.
Except for one thing. All the Rep gear outside of the rep store is gated behind doing Advanced. Which means you need the gear to do advanced, but to do advanced you need to get the gear.
Just poor planning. As it stands now, once you are ready to get to advanced you still can't because you don't have the gear to up your DPS.
That's where you're PARTIALLY wrong.
Nukara and Romulan are not hidden behind needing things from Advanced as they don't require special parts from harder queues. Voth and Undine you don't need to do Advanced - just go to the Battlezones. Omega Force IS, but you can still pick up the weapons (the Kinetic Laser Cutter, the Omega Torps and the thing that boosts Crit Chances). I'm not sure about Delta, though. Haven't started with that.
Nukara and Romulan are not hidden behind needing things from Advanced as they don't require special parts from harder queues. Voth and Undine you don't need to do Advanced - just go to the Battlezones. Omega Force IS, but you can still pick up the weapons (the Kinetic Laser Cutter, the Omega Torps and the thing that boosts Crit Chances). I'm not sure about Delta, though. Haven't started with that.
Your right, I am partially wrong. Delta is gated. You can't get it from the Kobali Adventure Zone (which I'm scratching my head over) only from the new Advanceds.
Comments
I'm not surprised that people who were building min-max DPS ships before are still doing so, nor have I ever said the content wasn't doable by such players. And Elite difficulty should require that.
Advanced should not require such perfection. Advanced should require a knowledge of the mission objectives and a reasonable grasp of game mechanics. Or in other words, it should be about as hard (or as easy, if you will) as the *old* Elite. And Normal should be for players who don't know anything going in or sub-par players who don't care or have time to progress.
Oh it is of course possible to do these missions... its at least shown in videos... so it must be possible.
However.... its done by people which have the ships and the gear already that allow them to do these missions.
How should somebody who does not have such ships and such gear do the mission if the only way to get hands on such gear is to play the mission.
Its a paradoxon.
You can only win the mission if you have the gear but you can only get the gear if you won the mission.
Smartasses which say that everyone can do the hardest missions forget that not everyone is online 24/7.... that there are ppl which play just to have fun... and that without such casual players this game already would be long dead.
If just enough ppl lose their fun on these missions (and it looks like this is the case atm) and leave the game then delta rising is just about the last season you have got to play.
Elite is supposed to be a challenge. I don't think there is a lvl60 character with mk14 gold quality gear yet. Elite is meant to be played with top gear, not the outdated stuff others got now.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
ppl are complaining about normal or adv. being too hard for most players meanwhile
I haven't seen any QQ over elite mode...... all teh QQ'ing I've seen is over the difficulty setting for Advanced stuff and entry level queue normal stuff.
The big deal is the slash to rewards and the extra time it takes to do any of the modes
More work, less loot. Pointless in other words.
The irony of this is, that even the normal queues are kinda wonky in numbers. The massive HP scaling affects them aswell.
Of course all thoose 'Elite' players that appreciate the nerf in rewards and the add up of HP to ridicolous numbers just because its a great "Challenge" now will realize that they will have noone left to play any queue with them.
Granted. You can play with your elite friends... but not everyone is online at the same time and sometimes you might want to join a public queue and realize noone queues up for them anymore.
Its not that the majority of the STO players is to dumb or not properly geared for the queues. Its the fact that there is ridicolous amounts of HP and a strict timer in their way to sucessful complete an STF.
At the current state I would say, theres like 1 or 2% of the STO population who could run the queues sucessfull.
So yeah if you dont want it changed you elite guys will find yourselves in your little "Elite Club" waiting all day for your elite friends to come online to finally get a queue going.
Oh and I am not saying this because I fly a crappy ship with crappy gear. No.
I invested quite some time gearing out my ships and work on them loadouts. I own Ultra Rare MK XIV gear and I am no beginner aswell.
Yet I find myself unable to complete the Advanced ones... as are most of my fleetmates, and they surely are no beginners aswell...
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Do you support allowing VR mats and what was the "elite" component to drop from normal queues? Right now my progress through Delta Rep is hindered because there's no real reliable way to get APCs.
If so...is there really a need to have "Advanced" versions versus "Elite" versions?
I think it would be better if normal and advanced were accessible and to all players, with the best standard kit for the level they are, if you cant complete a queue with gear that's readily available in the game, then what exactly is that gear good for?
Elite queues should yield exactly the same rewards as advanced, the only difference here should be perhaps special accolades, like with no win. Rewards themselves should go back to the way they were.
As it is, the fun has left the game, my years of levelling and experience count for nothing, and even if successful award next to nothing.
But seriously, creating powerful new ships for everyone, then simply making all enemies tougher, and nerfing rewards at the same time, seems at best unbelievable, and at worst like a scam.
Absolutely. Let the elite DPS kings look down upon us mere peasants while they scoff "Oh, what ARE you complaining about? Its SOOOOOO easy". Whatever makes them happy. They can be the small minority who can still enjoy endgame and feel superior.
They best enjoy it now though as they'll have precious few people to show it off to within a few months. Players will flock from this game in their thousands, taking their wallets with them. They'll be lucky if they have a game as a result this time next year.
Ok...
Tell us why you ignored the feedback during beta when this was brought up?
You ignored it then, why should we believe you won't ignore it now?
The thing is you can only get proper kitted and geared by running theese to get mats for crafting or special tokens to process rep project gear.
So what was first? Egg or chicken? :rolleyes:
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Agreed, they should at least make the lower level versions of gear not need the elite 'difficulty' items so that you have a better chance of completing the elite content to get the top level gear.
People who like Torpedoes and Mines are almost completely shut out because of the pathetic damage they do while shields are up, before it was doable because of DoT from plasma torps but now that doesn't even help.
Queued events are not even worth doing, rewards are far too low for the time it takes to do them. Advanced are almost impossible to pug now, and even normal are a pain. Scale normal back to the way it was, scale Advanced to match the old elite and leave the new elite the way it is for the powergamers and things will be fine.
As it is now there is ONE queued event that gives the new tokens needed for delta rep items, and only advanced drops them which it seems that a large part of the playerbase can't successfully complete because optionals are now a requirement.
I'd say "I can't believe this made it past Tribble", but looking at everything else that's made it past Tribble I was unfortunately not at all surprised.
Exactly this.
Normal should be low level rewards, generally simple and perfect ways for new players to understand how they work. Advanced should be what the old Elite was - a challenge to a degree, okay rewards and the place most mid-level players will hover and start to really integrate solid endgame builds.
Keep the new Elite for total pro's and give them really amazing rewards for success.
if you hate the players, tell it :mad:
However, with the new "check damage" option when you kark it, I would like to know where the BOFF skill "Torpedo -Salvo III" is trained, because it's a reet bastward in my experience.
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My group finished the run, didn't get the optional though.
All in all I think by the time I hit 60 the optional will be eminently doable.
(P.S. Yes, I was in a PUG)
ETA: the only upgraded gear was the Experimantal beam array, KCB and Dyson Warp Core. All of those were Mk XIII purple, everything else mentioned is MK XII purple.
The new advanced should be the old elite, and the rewards should be the same, not equal to the old normal system.
Elite STF's should be whatever you got, but the timer should be increased to give you a good run at it. And of course it should reward more than the old Elites since you are required to do more.
I really hate seeing my main reason for logging in to be total TRIBBLE like what it is now.
This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth for this game. I can't believe the dev's thought this was progress.
agreed..
Totally!
I want that the fights to have a meaning, not the semi-afk way that was in the pas ISE.
P.S. I die/loose all the time in advanced but that's it, it makes the game more interesting and give a meaning to progression. What was the point in the past to have level12 purple gear - none, lev10 blue and some mirror ship was fine for elites.
Can i have your credits after you sell everything ?
One to beam up!
So do elite mode if you want to die more, why do you need advanced too?
Except for one thing. All the Rep gear outside of the rep store is gated behind doing Advanced. Which means you need the gear to do advanced, but to do advanced you need to get the gear.
Just poor planning. As it stands now, once you are ready to get to advanced you still can't because you don't have the gear to up your DPS.
That's where you're PARTIALLY wrong.
Nukara and Romulan are not hidden behind needing things from Advanced as they don't require special parts from harder queues. Voth and Undine you don't need to do Advanced - just go to the Battlezones. Omega Force IS, but you can still pick up the weapons (the Kinetic Laser Cutter, the Omega Torps and the thing that boosts Crit Chances). I'm not sure about Delta, though. Haven't started with that.
Your right, I am partially wrong. Delta is gated. You can't get it from the Kobali Adventure Zone (which I'm scratching my head over) only from the new Advanceds.