I agree. A hardcore minority of players have now be satisfied, those whose are top end players with amazing builds and DPS monsters. At the cost of the vast majority of the playerbase who just can't do these new queues. Don't even get me started on new or novice skilled players. They are totally locked out of progressing to high end builds and becoming better. Cryptic have effectively killed endgame for everyone except the highest class of player.
Ironically, I think even the top end players will see the mistake of all this as time goes on. They won't be able to complete the queues without others players, those players will be a lot less from the total queue exodus we're seeing and what players they do get will likely be not good enough anyway, so you'll fail the optional and therefore the whole thing.
This was a totally insane idea. They've forced this policy onto everyone and ruined things in the process. The amazing players were asking for higher challenges. Why not just give them that with the new Elite and leave everyone else the hell alone? Instead, novice or intermediate players have been swept up in this and made to suffer.
This sums it up. If they want to appease the super elite player base, keep queues around that have the difficulty they desire, but add back in a few different queues with previous difficulties so that new players, casual players etc. can come and enjoy, while earning rewards for the difficulty they play at.
You need to give them SOME kind of avenue or you'll just drive off any new subs, and then you've stalemated business to a select few, who eventually will get bored with the title, leave for others, and by that time there will be @#$* all you can do about it. Congrats! You've lost a huge title, parts of your staff will be laid off and move into competing studios and it goes on and on. If I wanted this kind of game, I'd be playing a SOE title that has permadeath in it.
I know I don't spend as much as others do, but figure, full cost for Collectors Edition (now a FTP title that you gift away one of the "exclusive" rewards ad nauseum), monthly subscription, $200+ a month on Zen for Lock Boxes and other services (ship slots, BO slots, DOFFs)... Keep it up, I've got cash to burn and I'll burn it elsewhere.
At the moment I am wondering wheather the developers are liars or absolutely incompetent.
It was clearly said... and let me quote it:
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
Well, the situation on the server somehow conflicts with the given promise.
Maybe a developer wants to answer this question: liar or incompetent?
Fact is that since the release of delta rising the entire balance is totally screwed.
Players that were able to play elite STFs before can be glad if they win a normal PVE game. Im not even talking about adv. PVEs which are now for at least 95% of the +lvl50 players impossible to win.
Really i see more ppl dropping out of these matches than ever before because the optionals are impossible to fulfill and therefore the missions fails.
Just alone that optionals are requirements now is so ridiculous that its hard for me to find the right words for this TRIBBLE.
Even the normal missions are for new lvl50 players pretty hard to do.
About elite stuff i wont even discuss here.
But lets take a look at the situation from another point of view.
Before delta rising a halfway good player with a T5 ship was able to join an elite match... and get an acceptable reward from it 960dil + repuation item.
Now the same player is not allowed to join an elite match anymore (coz its lvl60 now)... so the 960 dil reward is pretty much impossible to get since delta rising.
This player might join an adv. PVE now... his chances to win are minimal at the moment.... the 480dil reward is also out of reach. Of course the player also wont get the reputation specific rewards which in the end blocks any progress on the rep systems for most of the STO players.
Normal difficulty... thats what the STO players still can play and win.
Thats ~240dil?
Normal difficulty btw. in many PVEs is as hard as the old elite difficulty meanwhile.
So the players have to spend the same amount of time for the missions... but dont even get 1/4 of the original reward from before Delta Rising.
Fellow developers.... the game is no fun anymore.
People dont know what to play anymore because most of the content has become so hard that the missions fail almost everytime.
And your promise that people can play the game just like before is aparently worth nothing.
Experience from PVE play:
1. Crystaline Entity Adv.
(2 Scimitars + 1 Odyssey + 1 Dreadnaught Cruiser + one of the uggly T6 Cruisers)
The time on that mission was up before the team could get the Entity down to 70%
2. Starbase 24 (rofl)
(3 scimitars + a few other t5 ships)
The whole team died like flies during the mission.
3. Infected Space adv.
(a mix of t5 and t6 ships)
half the team left the game frustrated after a few mins
I have the feeling that the developers have not tested anything prior releasing this season.
The balance is a total mess... there are bugs everywhere... some players still cant launch the game or stay online for longer than 5mins.
Next to that does it appear like countless of old bugs are back again (how can that be? how messed up if the code for this game that this always happens?)
I am also developing software and i would be ashamed if my work had the lack of quality and quality management like in STO.
Worst probably is that most of the problems in delta rising were predictable. I mean... people have pointed out what would happen.... and this TRIBBLE did happen just because the developers of this game give a damn to listen to the players.
Next thing is that since about one year pretty much everything in the game is getting more and more expensive.
The costs to get a toon maxed out with good ship, good equipment and halfway good traits trippled in the past 12 months. Everything takes longer... everything is more expensive... everything is more complicated than before.
Hell, thinking about MK14 equipment... you need to go through months of crafting and hundred thousands of dilithium for that.
You cant get a good ship anymore if you are not spending ages for crafting and grinding. The entire game can meanwhile be reduced to this purpose...
Around at season 8 the developers said that they want to reduce the grinding for the players.
What happened to that?
To me it appears like the devs do everything to made grinding more and more difficult and time intense in the past 12 months.
Around at season 9.5 the developers said that they want to allow new lvl50 players to be more competitive with old players.
What happened to that?
To me it appears that season 10 does exactly the opposite of whats announced in season 9.5 (which was just a few months ago btw).
Everything in this game is getting more expensive, more complicated and more time consuming.
Ive spent 5 hours on the server yesterday... and i managed to get a little more than 4k dilithium via PVE missions.
Cryptic, is this a joke at the cost of the players?
Id give you a simple advice.
Fix this mess or STO will lose many players in the next few weeks.
Base Storyline content, Normal and Advanced Queues should have stayed the same. Elite should be the only thing cranked up. They've probably got maybe 30 days before people finally give up face smashing their keyboards and go elsewhere for fun, especially if they're having the same troubles once they've reached 60.
I know I for the most part am enjoying DR (and the exception), but I have not done any STFs just to avoid the frustration right now.
For those thinking they need a T6 ship. Not true. My Fleet Avenger outperforms the Eclipse in every manner wit the same gear. The debuffs are ok from what little I've used it but the ship is fragile. We might hit like a feather now but at least I can survive in the Avenger.
Cryptic, please remember that casuals ho play an hour a week and do not spend money on the game are useless for any MMO. Look at this thread, they barely scored 50 pages of qqing in 4 days. If the new difficulty would be a problem for majority, this topic would have grown to 1,000-2000 pages in 1-2 days. End game content must be hard... end game gear must be hard to obtain...
This how all successful mmo work:
"Make no mistake, end-game is all about challenging harder and harder content and having fun while doing so. As you complete content you will gain better gear, which can be used to challenge even harder content. If your gear is not good enough then you will struggle with content, so it is important to not get too far ahead of yourself. While it may feel that end-game is all about gear, the main thing is having fun. The gear rewards you for taking on the challenges and gives you the feeling of getting stronger as you beat higher challenges."
Cryptic, please remember that casuals ho play an hour a week and do not spend money on the game are useless for any MMO. Look at this thread, they barely scored 50 pages of qqing in 4 days. If the new difficulty would be a problem for majority, this topic would have grown to 1,000-2000 pages in 1-2 days. End game content must be hard... end game gear must be hard to obtain...
This how all successful mmo work:
"Make no mistake, end-game is all about challenging harder and harder content and having fun while doing so. As you complete content you will gain better gear, which can be used to challenge even harder content. If your gear is not good enough then you will struggle with content, so it is important to not get too far ahead of yourself. While it may feel that end-game is all about gear, the main thing is having fun. The gear rewards you for taking on the challenges and gives you the feeling of getting stronger as you beat higher challenges."
Most MMO players AVOID the forums because they want to play the game. When it gets to be absurd they simply log off and don't return. The true minority are the players on the forums.
Cryptic, please remember that casuals ho play an hour a week and do not spend money on the game are useless for any MMO. Look at this thread, they barely scored 50 pages of qqing in 4 days. If the new difficulty would be a problem for majority, this topic would have grown to 1,000-2000 pages in 1-2 days. End game content must be hard... end game gear must be hard to obtain...
This how all successful mmo work:
"Make no mistake, end-game is all about challenging harder and harder content and having fun while doing so. As you complete content you will gain better gear, which can be used to challenge even harder content. If your gear is not good enough then you will struggle with content, so it is important to not get too far ahead of yourself. While it may feel that end-game is all about gear, the main thing is having fun. The gear rewards you for taking on the challenges and gives you the feeling of getting stronger as you beat higher challenges."
I am a paying customer
I dont post on forums very often because they are dramafest from hell
I made an exception and posted in this thread and a couple others.
Your assumptions are wrong and would be curious to know how many of the posters in this thread do spend money on this game.
At the moment I am wondering wheather the developers are liars or absolutely incompetent.
It was clearly said... and let me quote it:
Well, the situation on the server somehow conflicts with the given promise.
Maybe a developer wants to answer this question: liar or incompetent?
Fact is that since the release of delta rising the entire balance is totally screwed.
Players that were able to play elite STFs before can be glad if they win a normal PVE game. Im not even talking about adv. PVEs which are now for at least 95% of the +lvl50 players impossible to win.
Really i see more ppl dropping out of these matches than ever before because the optionals are impossible to fulfill and therefore the missions fails.
Just alone that optionals are requirements now is so ridiculous that its hard for me to find the right words for this TRIBBLE.
Even the normal missions are for new lvl50 players pretty hard to do.
About elite stuff i wont even discuss here.
But lets take a look at the situation from another point of view.
Before delta rising a halfway good player with a T5 ship was able to join an elite match... and get an acceptable reward from it 960dil + repuation item.
Now the same player is not allowed to join an elite match anymore (coz its lvl60 now)... so the 960 dil reward is pretty much impossible to get since delta rising.
This player might join an adv. PVE now... his chances to win are minimal at the moment.... the 480dil reward is also out of reach. Of course the player also wont get the reputation specific rewards which in the end blocks any progress on the rep systems for most of the STO players.
Normal difficulty... thats what the STO players still can play and win.
Thats ~240dil?
Normal difficulty btw. in many PVEs is as hard as the old elite difficulty meanwhile.
So the players have to spend the same amount of time for the missions... but dont even get 1/4 of the original reward from before Delta Rising.
Fellow developers.... the game is no fun anymore.
People dont know what to play anymore because most of the content has become so hard that the missions fail almost everytime.
And your promise that people can play the game just like before is aparently worth nothing.
Experience from PVE play:
1. Crystaline Entity Adv.
(2 Scimitars + 1 Odyssey + 1 Dreadnaught Cruiser + one of the uggly T6 Cruisers)
The time on that mission was up before the team could get the Entity down to 70%
2. Starbase 24 (rofl)
(3 scimitars + a few other t5 ships)
The whole team died like flies during the mission.
3. Infected Space adv.
(a mix of t5 and t6 ships)
half the team left the game frustrated after a few mins
I have the feeling that the developers have not tested anything prior releasing this season.
The balance is a total mess... there are bugs everywhere... some players still cant launch the game or stay online for longer than 5mins.
Next to that does it appear like countless of old bugs are back again (how can that be? how messed up if the code for this game that this always happens?)
I am also developing software and i would be ashamed if my work had the lack of quality and quality management like in STO.
Worst probably is that most of the problems in delta rising were predictable. I mean... people have pointed out what would happen.... and this TRIBBLE did happen just because the developers of this game give a damn to listen to the players.
Next thing is that since about one year pretty much everything in the game is getting more and more expensive.
The costs to get a toon maxed out with good ship, good equipment and halfway good traits trippled in the past 12 months. Everything takes longer... everything is more expensive... everything is more complicated than before.
Hell, thinking about MK14 equipment... you need to go through months of crafting and hundred thousands of dilithium for that.
You cant get a good ship anymore if you are not spending ages for crafting and grinding. The entire game can meanwhile be reduced to this purpose...
Around at season 8 the developers said that they want to reduce the grinding for the players.
What happened to that?
To me it appears like the devs do everything to made grinding more and more difficult and time intense in the past 12 months.
Around at season 9.5 the developers said that they want to allow new lvl50 players to be more competitive with old players.
What happened to that?
To me it appears that season 10 does exactly the opposite of whats announced in season 9.5 (which was just a few months ago btw).
Everything in this game is getting more expensive, more complicated and more time consuming.
Ive spent 5 hours on the server yesterday... and i managed to get a little more than 4k dilithium via PVE missions.
Cryptic, is this a joke at the cost of the players?
Id give you a simple advice.
Fix this mess or STO will lose many players in the next few weeks.
Totally agree with this. I'm a casual player who used to love this game! I did put some serious money into getting fleet advanced mk 12 gear (so I could enjoy my advanced ships) and now (ON NORMAL DIFFICULTY) i'm finding my weapons are like water pistols against enemies...and to upgrade to make a difference....they want MORE MONEY! AGAIN...I'm so deflated. Standard fights are taking 20 odd minutes (where they used to take an enjoyable 2 or 3 mins per wave) and i find myself getting very annoyed and bored VERY quickly with the new standard BLOATED HP of standard enemies. I pay a yearly sub to play and even with my 500-a-month zen-into dilithium - to upgrade to play at normal difficulty comfortably means I can never afford this to enjoy my game anymore.:-(.
I do feel shafted by CRYPTIC as it seems all they want me to do is shower them with money to play comfortably...it's soul destroying. I already had to fork out £25 to upgrade all my characters ships (so I could play comfortably) for ships I already paid £17 odd for on the c store..again i felt shafted..but it was all for nothing it would seem. If this is not patched and returned to fun again...then i will cancel and not play.....as I feel that my love for Star Trek is being milked for my money. I work full time and don't have the required 'no life' that is required to upgrade all my gear to make a difference in this game and play comfortably. As I say, I love causual play...the storylines...the roleplay...and now I feel like i can't play normal gameplay without a serious struggling challenge and that's not what I literally signed up for and pay for!.
Has Gecko responded to this post? He asked a question and got overwhelming negative response. Seems like maybe an apology and a timeframe of when this will be patched would bea good start?
Cryptic, please remember that casuals ho play an hour a week and do not spend money on the game are useless for any MMO. Look at this thread, they barely scored 50 pages of qqing in 4 days. If the new difficulty would be a problem for majority, this topic would have grown to 1,000-2000 pages in 1-2 days. End game content must be hard... end game gear must be hard to obtain...
This how all successful mmo work:
"Make no mistake, end-game is all about challenging harder and harder content and having fun while doing so. As you complete content you will gain better gear, which can be used to challenge even harder content. If your gear is not good enough then you will struggle with content, so it is important to not get too far ahead of yourself. While it may feel that end-game is all about gear, the main thing is having fun. The gear rewards you for taking on the challenges and gives you the feeling of getting stronger as you beat higher challenges."
The vast majority of players do not participate in the forums. one way or another. Merely because thousands are not posting does not mean anything, one way or another. The extreme drop in queue numbers is a pretty good indication there is an issue.
Could you pls flip the stats instead of insane hp have them do insane damage or just tripple the npc.
Right now you are forcing players on elite to become cookie cutter hull eating builds not everyone wants to play grav well wars or tbr tag.
Also as game designer you should know how people mental gratification works they would rather have a hard time killing tons of mobs. This stimulates the mind more and leaves players with more gratification. Killing a small amount of mobs over long time frame with no mental difficulty (zombie mode) does not stimulate mental gratification but frustrates.
Gameplay now is boring and frustrating and forces player base into cookie cutter builds..
Nova Core
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions Zeadonouse ToLate
Cryptic, please remember that casuals ho play an hour a week and do not spend money on the game are useless for any MMO. Look at this thread, they barely scored 50 pages of qqing in 4 days. If the new difficulty would be a problem for majority, this topic would have grown to 1,000-2000 pages in 1-2 days. End game content must be hard... end game gear must be hard to obtain...
This how all successful mmo work:
"Make no mistake, end-game is all about challenging harder and harder content and having fun while doing so. As you complete content you will gain better gear, which can be used to challenge even harder content. If your gear is not good enough then you will struggle with content, so it is important to not get too far ahead of yourself. While it may feel that end-game is all about gear, the main thing is having fun. The gear rewards you for taking on the challenges and gives you the feeling of getting stronger as you beat higher challenges."
Boy we can sure tell this person is a forum troll, simply by the comment and, how few posts hey have made.
Game is fine as it is. L2P or you will be repurposed.
Endgame content is tuned around level 60.
The previously difficulty was a joke. ISE was doable in shutles.
Was that how the startrek spirit was, Federation destroying everything by just breathing in enemy direction ? Or was a struggle with planning and calculated risks ?
Could you pls flip the stats instead of insane hp have them do insane damage or just tripple the npc.
Right now you are forcing players on elite to become cookie cutter hull eating builds not everyone wants to play grav well wars or tbr tag.
Also as game designer you should know how people mental gratification works they would rather have a hard time killing tons of mobs. This stimulates the mind more and leaves players with more gratification. Killing a small amount of mobs over long time frame with no mental difficulty (zombie mode) does not stimulate mental gratification but frustrates.
Gameplay now is boring and frustrating and forces player base into cookie cutter builds..
Solo play so boring it hurts. I've been doing some patrols on elite for XP, and the NPCs can't shoot their way out of a paper bag. I've been alt-tabbing to a web browser while fighting battleships... my shield and hull heal procs outheal its damage while it takes forever to wear down its hull.
I guess they wanted to make STO more like Eve, huh?
And as for the queues on Advanced... I don't play games for a frustrating, timer-based challenge. I play them for an entertaining escape. I want the frustration to stay in Real Life where it belongs.
Game is fine as it is. L2P or you will be repurposed.
Endgame content is tuned around level 60.
The previously difficulty was a joke. ISE was doable in shutles.
Was that how the startrek spirit was, Federation destroying everything by just breathing in enemy direction ? Or was a struggle with planning and calculated risks ?
I suppose it is, if you have a job and buy dil rather than farming it
As it is, you have to be jobless to earn dil to reach that daily cap
No dil cap raise, just dil harder to get.
Free 2 play, some say it's pay2win... I say it's pay2notgrind
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. ~ Oscar Wilde
Game is fine as it is. L2P or you will be repurposed.
Endgame content is tuned around level 60.
The previously difficulty was a joke. ISE was doable in shutles.
Was that how the startrek spirit was, Federation destroying everything by just breathing in enemy direction ? Or was a struggle with planning and calculated risks ?
It's not fine as it is. The curve has been boosted so high it makes new players impossible to reach level to do any advanced content even.Even FA is overly hard for the poor lower tier captains who queue.
Great, some people could do it in shuttles, they made a new elite. There is the increased difficulty with the new system.... but you still need TIERS of difficulty along a curve to aid in leveling. normal/hard/insane...... not normal/almost wacko/insane. Especially in a system where people are mostly locked out of gear for almost wacko content that is gated by materials only attainable by playing almost wacko content content.
Game is fine as it is. L2P or you will be repurposed.
Endgame content is tuned around level 60.
The previously difficulty was a joke. ISE was doable in shutles.
Was that how the startrek spirit was, Federation destroying everything by just breathing in enemy direction ? Or was a struggle with planning and calculated risks ?
Problem is it's not tuned...All it is is ships tickling each other until one explodes from laughing too hard. Normal and Advanced should have stayed the same until they get the scaling worked out for the level increase. I do agree elite should be strap on your jock strap because it's going to get rough, but there is a glaring problem when Superior Beam Upgrade Kits have quintupled in price. Even Engineer ones are over 1 mil now. The reason is simple, people can't complete the STFs to get the Mats combined with people buying them up to get high enough tiered gear to maybe complete them.
So how would you explain the videos being posted of groups completing the new Advanced and Elite queues with all optionals?
To brag. What else are such videos for? Besides whether its doable isn't the point, so much as whether its pugmade-able in something other than an AOE-DPS build. Otherwise you ground 2/3 of the possible builds in the game. Besides, outside of DS9's Dominion War stuff, how many episodes of Trek were solved by volume of fire? As it is now, we may as well be playing Gradius Online.
This is a rather interesting comment. So how would you explain the videos being posted of groups completing the new Advanced and Elite queues with all optionals? If others are able to do it, clearly everyone has the potential to do the same. It then becomes a question of build, gear and player experience. From that perspective, "learn to play" is valid.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating cookie cutter builds or being an elitist, just pointing out that it's clear that this new content is doable.
I dont think there is any question if its double because it is with the right build and gear.
What the real question is in my opinion.
IS IT FUN'.....
My experiance no...
I would have rather them double or triple the damage instead. So its fly by the seat of your pants hard and fun. Now its slow kills and BORING.
Nova Core
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions Zeadonouse ToLate
Welcome to Delta Rising. A lot has changed in the game difficulty, and we are looking for your feedback.
Delta Rising was a massive addition, and we anticipate that we will need to make adjustments. So over the next few weeks expect changes in the baseline difficulty, advanced difficulty, and elite difficulty - and also expect rewards to change as we gather more metrics on play-times and success rates.
Our goal was to make basic difficulty and the story content something everyone can play - even with a standard T5 ship. Levels 1-50 are generally pretty easy at basic difficulty, so we felt 51-60 should step things up a bit. Although we expect 51-60 accessible everyone, those in T5 ships and non-upgraded gear should to start to feel a definite challenge as they approach level 60. We expect Advanced to be for more skilled players and those who have invested in the game (ships and gear). And we expect Elite to be for the best of the best. We don't expect most players to succeed on elite difficulty.
If I were to guess, I would expect basic to get some minor tuning, Advanced to get a little easier and Elite to get a lot harder - and rewards, like dilithium rewards, could potentially go up across queues once we are sure we are hitting the right mark. But this is just my guess at this time.
Until then, let us know your thoughts here, and we will take your feedback into consideration.
Thanks, and we hope you enjoy Delta Rising.
LLAP
THIS is the point of the entire thread.
The community has been engaged directly by Cryptic's Lead Developer, CaptainGeko (Al Rivera). This is a terrific opportunity to provide feedback, presuming this thread is still being read by Cryptic.
I'm not a moderator; however, I'm asking if some of you can please scale back your side conversations and focus on the topic at hand with specific feedback, as originally solicited.
I'd also ask if Cryptic could (please) issue a statement about their next steps.
(It's a presumption that the feedback here is going to result in some sort of change(s) to the STFs/PUGs. It would be nice to understand if a new direction is bein evaluated, or things remain status quo, or ??)
Using increased hitpoints as the primary means of increasing difficulty sends one message:
DPS is the only right way to play.
Healing is the wrong way to play.
CC is the wrong way to play.
Sure, those non-DPS roles can indirectly contribute, but only players doing the DPS are of much use.
If Cryptic wants there to only be one right way to play, they should permit and support only that one right way. Remove all ships not focused on DPS. Have a DPS counter prominent in the game. Announce throughout the game, the launcher, the websites, and social media that anyone not focusing on DPS is not playing the game the way it is meant to be played. Alienate your non-DPS players so only those who stick around are playing the game the right way.
I am also unhappy that reputation gear is now locked behind this new DPS requirement. If I choose the wrong way to play through team healing or CC, I increase the chance that the team will fail and lose out on the BNPs and other items needed for the reputation gear projects.
If high DPS is to be promoted in this manner, ways to promote Healing and CC should also be promoted. Rework the STFs to provide non-DPS alternatives. Give alternate objectives that require Healers to heal, and CC roles to CC. Allow the mission be succeed with just one of these roles or a combination of all three. Give us reasons to applaud and congratulate players who prefer roles other than the high DPS that has unfortunately become the standard metric of what makes a player any good.
Go ahead and keep the game how it is... it's your game after all. However, I believe it would benefit greatly from moving away from the current DPS-centric expectation.
Basic needs to be tuned back. I may have the best of everything and the best build and best strategy and blah blah blah, but random pugs I go into the queue with may not.
And as much as I like to blame other players for the state of the game, it isn't their fault they may not have the best of everything (especially if they aren't even level 50).
And game progress should not be determined on that. I should not have to carry my team, but at the same time game progress should not hinge on the weakest link.
It has little to do with learning to play. The NPCs are just too strong on Basic at the moment. Fleet Alerts are near impossible to complete without a team full of DPS-centric level 50+ escorts in the pugwash queues.
Using increased hitpoints as the primary means of increasing difficulty sends one message:
DPS is the only right way to play.
Healing is the wrong way to play.
CC is the wrong way to play.
Sure, those non-DPS roles can indirectly contribute, but only players doing the DPS are of much use.
If Cryptic wants there to only be one right way to play, they should permit and support only that one right way. Remove all ships not focused on DPS. Have a DPS counter prominent in the game. Announce throughout the game, the launcher, the websites, and social media that anyone not focusing on DPS is not playing the game the way it is meant to be played. Alienate your non-DPS players so only those who stick around are playing the game the right way.
I am also unhappy that reputation gear is now locked behind this new DPS requirement. If I choose the wrong way to play through team healing or CC, I increase the chance that the team will fail and lose out on the BNPs and other items needed for the reputation gear projects.
If high DPS is to be promoted in this manner, ways to promote Healing and CC should also be promoted. Rework the STFs to provide non-DPS alternatives. Give alternate objectives that require Healers to heal, and CC roles to CC. Allow the mission be succeed with just one of these roles or a combination of all three. Give us reasons to applaud and congratulate players who prefer roles other than the high DPS that has unfortunately become the standard metric of what makes a player any good.
Go ahead and keep the game how it is... it's your game after all. However, I believe it would benefit greatly from moving away from the current DPS-centric expectation.
I also echo this 100%.
If you want to sell more science ships and cruisers in the C-store, make them equally desirable as escorts. Since cruisers and science ships are not made for DPS e-peen stroking, do not be surprised if your sales are hit there.
There is no engaging support-based gameplay. I have said this for months (if not years).
Stop reaching for the low-hanging fruit by pandering to tactical capabilities and put some thought and effort into making healing/support/crowd control as equally fun, rewarding, and viable as damage output.
If anyone in your dev meetings at the table produces outside-the-box or seemingly unorthodox ideas on how to steer the game away from the DPS meta and and offers suggestions on how to make support gameplay more appealing, listen to them. Listen to them and seriously consider implementing their suggestions.
I have faith in their capability for these suggestions, but I have a feeling their ideas are being ignored.
If your solutions to new science vessels is to produce more "tactical-focused" science vessels, and your solutions to new cruisers is to produce more "tactical-focused" cruisers, it may be time to take a big step back and consider there is a problem with this trend, rather than what defines a science vessel or cruiser.
This isn't innovation. This is pandering.
If my feedback is too vague, I will offer specific suggestions.
Offer Starfleet Medical badges that can be turned in after preventing crew attrition in space (You saved lives in a fierce war? Have a reward!), or offer an RNG-based system where you may get a special item when your science vessel discovers a 'crucial' weakness in the enemy's biology.
Offer Starfleet Engineering badges for discovering how to alter shield modulation facing, which can then be turned in for special items (that can't be acquired elsewhere, or easily acquired elsewhere).
Tie it into the R&D system if you want. The more field testing you do, the more knowledge you gain in particular trees.
Introduce Science-slanted and Engineering-slanted space sets (or console sets for 4 or 5 engineering/science slots) with extremely powerful abilities that put those vessels on par with escorts. Make those sets only acquirable by scoring the player on how good of an engineer, scientist, or medical specialist they are.
Introduce more team scoring (like in Borg Disconnected) where scores can be increased by saving friendly vessels if they reach 20% health or lower. The lower their health, the higher the score since you save them from the brink of destruction. Tie it into fleet mark or dilithium percentages. If you have a particulrlay good support ship that knows how to rescue teammates or cripple the enemy, give your entire team payout an additional dilithium or fleet mark reward. This offers players the opportunity to diversify their teams with good support players for the possibility of additional rewards.
Pick up Prisoner doffs for your brig by landing successful Boarding Parties (with abilities like Boarding Party III having a higher chance of picking up Prisoners of Blue or Very Rare quality).
Introduce mechanics to science abilities like gravity well or viral matrix. Introduce scoring additions to PvE content based on how many targets infected by Viral Matrix, or introduce perks or achievements by managing to corral incredibly large numbers of capital ships (fighters and shuttles don't count) into a single gravity well.
There are so many ways you can go about it with existing technology with the game. You really just need to put the time and labor hours into it. By doing so, you make this game far more engaging for years to come as support ships become just as interesting and desirable in matches as tactical-focused ships.
Im a DPS junkie. I try to squeeze all I can out of all of my tac ships and at the expense of survivability. I averaged between 15k and 30K in the old ISE depending on my ship.
I never played any STF on Normal before the patch so I dont really know how easy it was but I can say the new normal is nowhere near as difficult as the old Elite and the new Advanced seems 20-30 levels above the old Elite. Heaven forbid I get to lvl 60 and try hitting up an Elite que.
Most experienced players can "feel" the difference almost like flying by the seat of their pants and to be honest I fly that way too.
I wont go into detail or specifics of my experiences thus far since the release of DR but everyone complaining about the rewards cut and the new longer grindfest are accurate in their responses. There is no fun playing advanced ques now. I will probably never enter an Elite que until this gets fixed and the rewards are absolutely appalling. You have taken a game that I have thoroughly enjoyed playing and turned it into a game I am seriously have second thoughts about.
The old Elite difficulty is not in the game anymore. You go from what I call super easy(Normal) to damn near impossible(Advanced). That gap needs to be fixed. Make advanced the new Elite, turn the current Advanced back to the old Elite difficulty and for heaven's sake bring back the old rewards and up the Elite rewards to something higher as to give everyone a goal to shoot for with their builds. Why would I play advanced there are few rewards and why would I bother with Elite if my team cant even kill the first cube. This is so wrong on every level.
As I said earlier, Im a DPS junkie but sometimes I am not in the mood to go ballz out...I enjoy the casual play as well on my other toons.
As for ground or storyline...I have no idea as that is not my type of gameplay...Im all Space.
I'd also ask if Cryptic could (please) issue a statement about their next steps.
(It's a presumption that the feedback here is going to result in some sort of change(s) to the STFs/PUGs. It would be nice to understand if a new direction is bein evaluated, or things remain status quo, or ??)
Agreed. I keep coming to this thread hoping Cryptic are going to post something about this feedback...and hoping they restore my faith (and expenditure) as a casual player who USED to love the casual gameplay and excellent storylines.
Come on Cryptic, please respond to all thisfeedback and do not keep us all in the dark on weather this is likely to change anytime soon at all...
Comments
This sums it up. If they want to appease the super elite player base, keep queues around that have the difficulty they desire, but add back in a few different queues with previous difficulties so that new players, casual players etc. can come and enjoy, while earning rewards for the difficulty they play at.
You need to give them SOME kind of avenue or you'll just drive off any new subs, and then you've stalemated business to a select few, who eventually will get bored with the title, leave for others, and by that time there will be @#$* all you can do about it. Congrats! You've lost a huge title, parts of your staff will be laid off and move into competing studios and it goes on and on. If I wanted this kind of game, I'd be playing a SOE title that has permadeath in it.
I know I don't spend as much as others do, but figure, full cost for Collectors Edition (now a FTP title that you gift away one of the "exclusive" rewards ad nauseum), monthly subscription, $200+ a month on Zen for Lock Boxes and other services (ship slots, BO slots, DOFFs)... Keep it up, I've got cash to burn and I'll burn it elsewhere.
It was clearly said... and let me quote it:
Well, the situation on the server somehow conflicts with the given promise.
Maybe a developer wants to answer this question: liar or incompetent?
Fact is that since the release of delta rising the entire balance is totally screwed.
Players that were able to play elite STFs before can be glad if they win a normal PVE game. Im not even talking about adv. PVEs which are now for at least 95% of the +lvl50 players impossible to win.
Really i see more ppl dropping out of these matches than ever before because the optionals are impossible to fulfill and therefore the missions fails.
Just alone that optionals are requirements now is so ridiculous that its hard for me to find the right words for this TRIBBLE.
Even the normal missions are for new lvl50 players pretty hard to do.
About elite stuff i wont even discuss here.
But lets take a look at the situation from another point of view.
Before delta rising a halfway good player with a T5 ship was able to join an elite match... and get an acceptable reward from it 960dil + repuation item.
Now the same player is not allowed to join an elite match anymore (coz its lvl60 now)... so the 960 dil reward is pretty much impossible to get since delta rising.
This player might join an adv. PVE now... his chances to win are minimal at the moment.... the 480dil reward is also out of reach. Of course the player also wont get the reputation specific rewards which in the end blocks any progress on the rep systems for most of the STO players.
Normal difficulty... thats what the STO players still can play and win.
Thats ~240dil?
Normal difficulty btw. in many PVEs is as hard as the old elite difficulty meanwhile.
So the players have to spend the same amount of time for the missions... but dont even get 1/4 of the original reward from before Delta Rising.
Fellow developers.... the game is no fun anymore.
People dont know what to play anymore because most of the content has become so hard that the missions fail almost everytime.
And your promise that people can play the game just like before is aparently worth nothing.
Experience from PVE play:
1. Crystaline Entity Adv.
(2 Scimitars + 1 Odyssey + 1 Dreadnaught Cruiser + one of the uggly T6 Cruisers)
The time on that mission was up before the team could get the Entity down to 70%
2. Starbase 24 (rofl)
(3 scimitars + a few other t5 ships)
The whole team died like flies during the mission.
3. Infected Space adv.
(a mix of t5 and t6 ships)
half the team left the game frustrated after a few mins
I have the feeling that the developers have not tested anything prior releasing this season.
The balance is a total mess... there are bugs everywhere... some players still cant launch the game or stay online for longer than 5mins.
Next to that does it appear like countless of old bugs are back again (how can that be? how messed up if the code for this game that this always happens?)
I am also developing software and i would be ashamed if my work had the lack of quality and quality management like in STO.
Worst probably is that most of the problems in delta rising were predictable. I mean... people have pointed out what would happen.... and this TRIBBLE did happen just because the developers of this game give a damn to listen to the players.
Next thing is that since about one year pretty much everything in the game is getting more and more expensive.
The costs to get a toon maxed out with good ship, good equipment and halfway good traits trippled in the past 12 months. Everything takes longer... everything is more expensive... everything is more complicated than before.
Hell, thinking about MK14 equipment... you need to go through months of crafting and hundred thousands of dilithium for that.
You cant get a good ship anymore if you are not spending ages for crafting and grinding. The entire game can meanwhile be reduced to this purpose...
Around at season 8 the developers said that they want to reduce the grinding for the players.
What happened to that?
To me it appears like the devs do everything to made grinding more and more difficult and time intense in the past 12 months.
Around at season 9.5 the developers said that they want to allow new lvl50 players to be more competitive with old players.
What happened to that?
To me it appears that season 10 does exactly the opposite of whats announced in season 9.5 (which was just a few months ago btw).
Everything in this game is getting more expensive, more complicated and more time consuming.
Ive spent 5 hours on the server yesterday... and i managed to get a little more than 4k dilithium via PVE missions.
Cryptic, is this a joke at the cost of the players?
Id give you a simple advice.
Fix this mess or STO will lose many players in the next few weeks.
The cost of R&D materials is increasing too much.
Without neural processor and the other stuff the reputation sistem is lock.
The number of players is decreasing and i sell with much more difficulties my materials on the market.
THANKS CRYPTIC :mad:
I know I for the most part am enjoying DR (and the exception), but I have not done any STFs just to avoid the frustration right now.
For those thinking they need a T6 ship. Not true. My Fleet Avenger outperforms the Eclipse in every manner wit the same gear. The debuffs are ok from what little I've used it but the ship is fragile. We might hit like a feather now but at least I can survive in the Avenger.
End game content must be hard... end game gear must be hard to obtain...
This how all successful mmo work:
"Make no mistake, end-game is all about challenging harder and harder content and having fun while doing so. As you complete content you will gain better gear, which can be used to challenge even harder content. If your gear is not good enough then you will struggle with content, so it is important to not get too far ahead of yourself. While it may feel that end-game is all about gear, the main thing is having fun. The gear rewards you for taking on the challenges and gives you the feeling of getting stronger as you beat higher challenges."
Most MMO players AVOID the forums because they want to play the game. When it gets to be absurd they simply log off and don't return. The true minority are the players on the forums.
I am a paying customer
I dont post on forums very often because they are dramafest from hell
I made an exception and posted in this thread and a couple others.
Your assumptions are wrong and would be curious to know how many of the posters in this thread do spend money on this game.
A couple of weeks and this game will be no more a successful game :mad:
3+ year old bugs still prevalent, new content excluded..
Before you guys ruin the game, you think you could fix some of the old bugs?
Totally agree with this. I'm a casual player who used to love this game! I did put some serious money into getting fleet advanced mk 12 gear (so I could enjoy my advanced ships) and now (ON NORMAL DIFFICULTY) i'm finding my weapons are like water pistols against enemies...and to upgrade to make a difference....they want MORE MONEY! AGAIN...I'm so deflated. Standard fights are taking 20 odd minutes (where they used to take an enjoyable 2 or 3 mins per wave) and i find myself getting very annoyed and bored VERY quickly with the new standard BLOATED HP of standard enemies. I pay a yearly sub to play and even with my 500-a-month zen-into dilithium - to upgrade to play at normal difficulty comfortably means I can never afford this to enjoy my game anymore.:-(.
I do feel shafted by CRYPTIC as it seems all they want me to do is shower them with money to play comfortably...it's soul destroying. I already had to fork out £25 to upgrade all my characters ships (so I could play comfortably) for ships I already paid £17 odd for on the c store..again i felt shafted..but it was all for nothing it would seem. If this is not patched and returned to fun again...then i will cancel and not play.....as I feel that my love for Star Trek is being milked for my money. I work full time and don't have the required 'no life' that is required to upgrade all my gear to make a difference in this game and play comfortably. As I say, I love causual play...the storylines...the roleplay...and now I feel like i can't play normal gameplay without a serious struggling challenge and that's not what I literally signed up for and pay for!.
totally
The vast majority of players do not participate in the forums. one way or another. Merely because thousands are not posting does not mean anything, one way or another. The extreme drop in queue numbers is a pretty good indication there is an issue.
Since February 2010... $700+. Counting several launch copies of the game and the subscription fees back then, LTS in 2011, lotsa ships and costumes.
I think the last thing I paid cash for Zen for was the Vesta pack, though. They're not getting any more until they earn it.
Could you pls flip the stats instead of insane hp have them do insane damage or just tripple the npc.
Right now you are forcing players on elite to become cookie cutter hull eating builds not everyone wants to play grav well wars or tbr tag.
Also as game designer you should know how people mental gratification works they would rather have a hard time killing tons of mobs. This stimulates the mind more and leaves players with more gratification. Killing a small amount of mobs over long time frame with no mental difficulty (zombie mode) does not stimulate mental gratification but frustrates.
Gameplay now is boring and frustrating and forces player base into cookie cutter builds..
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate
Boy we can sure tell this person is a forum troll, simply by the comment and, how few posts hey have made.
Good old troll accounts!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Endgame content is tuned around level 60.
The previously difficulty was a joke. ISE was doable in shutles.
Was that how the startrek spirit was, Federation destroying everything by just breathing in enemy direction ? Or was a struggle with planning and calculated risks ?
Solo play so boring it hurts. I've been doing some patrols on elite for XP, and the NPCs can't shoot their way out of a paper bag. I've been alt-tabbing to a web browser while fighting battleships... my shield and hull heal procs outheal its damage while it takes forever to wear down its hull.
I guess they wanted to make STO more like Eve, huh?
And as for the queues on Advanced... I don't play games for a frustrating, timer-based challenge. I play them for an entertaining escape. I want the frustration to stay in Real Life where it belongs.
I suppose it is, if you have a job and buy dil rather than farming it
As it is, you have to be jobless to earn dil to reach that daily cap
No dil cap raise, just dil harder to get.
Free 2 play, some say it's pay2win... I say it's pay2notgrind
It's not fine as it is. The curve has been boosted so high it makes new players impossible to reach level to do any advanced content even.Even FA is overly hard for the poor lower tier captains who queue.
Great, some people could do it in shuttles, they made a new elite. There is the increased difficulty with the new system.... but you still need TIERS of difficulty along a curve to aid in leveling. normal/hard/insane...... not normal/almost wacko/insane. Especially in a system where people are mostly locked out of gear for almost wacko content that is gated by materials only attainable by playing almost wacko content content.
Problem is it's not tuned...All it is is ships tickling each other until one explodes from laughing too hard. Normal and Advanced should have stayed the same until they get the scaling worked out for the level increase. I do agree elite should be strap on your jock strap because it's going to get rough, but there is a glaring problem when Superior Beam Upgrade Kits have quintupled in price. Even Engineer ones are over 1 mil now. The reason is simple, people can't complete the STFs to get the Mats combined with people buying them up to get high enough tiered gear to maybe complete them.
To brag. What else are such videos for? Besides whether its doable isn't the point, so much as whether its pugmade-able in something other than an AOE-DPS build. Otherwise you ground 2/3 of the possible builds in the game. Besides, outside of DS9's Dominion War stuff, how many episodes of Trek were solved by volume of fire? As it is now, we may as well be playing Gradius Online.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1254401
I hope a dev or other team member posts an acknowledgement at least so I won't feel like I'm being ignored.
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I dont think there is any question if its double because it is with the right build and gear.
What the real question is in my opinion.
IS IT FUN'.....
My experiance no...
I would have rather them double or triple the damage instead. So its fly by the seat of your pants hard and fun. Now its slow kills and BORING.
ParadiseKiller
House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate
THIS is the point of the entire thread.
The community has been engaged directly by Cryptic's Lead Developer, CaptainGeko (Al Rivera). This is a terrific opportunity to provide feedback, presuming this thread is still being read by Cryptic.
I'm not a moderator; however, I'm asking if some of you can please scale back your side conversations and focus on the topic at hand with specific feedback, as originally solicited.
I'd also ask if Cryptic could (please) issue a statement about their next steps.
(It's a presumption that the feedback here is going to result in some sort of change(s) to the STFs/PUGs. It would be nice to understand if a new direction is bein evaluated, or things remain status quo, or ??)
DPS is the only right way to play.
Healing is the wrong way to play.
CC is the wrong way to play.
Sure, those non-DPS roles can indirectly contribute, but only players doing the DPS are of much use.
If Cryptic wants there to only be one right way to play, they should permit and support only that one right way. Remove all ships not focused on DPS. Have a DPS counter prominent in the game. Announce throughout the game, the launcher, the websites, and social media that anyone not focusing on DPS is not playing the game the way it is meant to be played. Alienate your non-DPS players so only those who stick around are playing the game the right way.
I am also unhappy that reputation gear is now locked behind this new DPS requirement. If I choose the wrong way to play through team healing or CC, I increase the chance that the team will fail and lose out on the BNPs and other items needed for the reputation gear projects.
If high DPS is to be promoted in this manner, ways to promote Healing and CC should also be promoted. Rework the STFs to provide non-DPS alternatives. Give alternate objectives that require Healers to heal, and CC roles to CC. Allow the mission be succeed with just one of these roles or a combination of all three. Give us reasons to applaud and congratulate players who prefer roles other than the high DPS that has unfortunately become the standard metric of what makes a player any good.
Go ahead and keep the game how it is... it's your game after all. However, I believe it would benefit greatly from moving away from the current DPS-centric expectation.
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<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
<Keybind Tour the Galaxy> <Fleet / Armada Management> <Currency Exchange> <Other STO Links>
Basic needs to be tuned back. I may have the best of everything and the best build and best strategy and blah blah blah, but random pugs I go into the queue with may not.
And as much as I like to blame other players for the state of the game, it isn't their fault they may not have the best of everything (especially if they aren't even level 50).
And game progress should not be determined on that. I should not have to carry my team, but at the same time game progress should not hinge on the weakest link.
It has little to do with learning to play. The NPCs are just too strong on Basic at the moment. Fleet Alerts are near impossible to complete without a team full of DPS-centric level 50+ escorts in the pugwash queues.
I also echo this 100%.
If you want to sell more science ships and cruisers in the C-store, make them equally desirable as escorts. Since cruisers and science ships are not made for DPS e-peen stroking, do not be surprised if your sales are hit there.
There is no engaging support-based gameplay. I have said this for months (if not years).
Stop reaching for the low-hanging fruit by pandering to tactical capabilities and put some thought and effort into making healing/support/crowd control as equally fun, rewarding, and viable as damage output.
If anyone in your dev meetings at the table produces outside-the-box or seemingly unorthodox ideas on how to steer the game away from the DPS meta and and offers suggestions on how to make support gameplay more appealing, listen to them. Listen to them and seriously consider implementing their suggestions.
I have faith in their capability for these suggestions, but I have a feeling their ideas are being ignored.
If your solutions to new science vessels is to produce more "tactical-focused" science vessels, and your solutions to new cruisers is to produce more "tactical-focused" cruisers, it may be time to take a big step back and consider there is a problem with this trend, rather than what defines a science vessel or cruiser.
This isn't innovation. This is pandering.
If my feedback is too vague, I will offer specific suggestions.
Offer Starfleet Medical badges that can be turned in after preventing crew attrition in space (You saved lives in a fierce war? Have a reward!), or offer an RNG-based system where you may get a special item when your science vessel discovers a 'crucial' weakness in the enemy's biology.
Offer Starfleet Engineering badges for discovering how to alter shield modulation facing, which can then be turned in for special items (that can't be acquired elsewhere, or easily acquired elsewhere).
Tie it into the R&D system if you want. The more field testing you do, the more knowledge you gain in particular trees.
Introduce Science-slanted and Engineering-slanted space sets (or console sets for 4 or 5 engineering/science slots) with extremely powerful abilities that put those vessels on par with escorts. Make those sets only acquirable by scoring the player on how good of an engineer, scientist, or medical specialist they are.
Introduce more team scoring (like in Borg Disconnected) where scores can be increased by saving friendly vessels if they reach 20% health or lower. The lower their health, the higher the score since you save them from the brink of destruction. Tie it into fleet mark or dilithium percentages. If you have a particulrlay good support ship that knows how to rescue teammates or cripple the enemy, give your entire team payout an additional dilithium or fleet mark reward. This offers players the opportunity to diversify their teams with good support players for the possibility of additional rewards.
Pick up Prisoner doffs for your brig by landing successful Boarding Parties (with abilities like Boarding Party III having a higher chance of picking up Prisoners of Blue or Very Rare quality).
Introduce mechanics to science abilities like gravity well or viral matrix. Introduce scoring additions to PvE content based on how many targets infected by Viral Matrix, or introduce perks or achievements by managing to corral incredibly large numbers of capital ships (fighters and shuttles don't count) into a single gravity well.
There are so many ways you can go about it with existing technology with the game. You really just need to put the time and labor hours into it. By doing so, you make this game far more engaging for years to come as support ships become just as interesting and desirable in matches as tactical-focused ships.
I never played any STF on Normal before the patch so I dont really know how easy it was but I can say the new normal is nowhere near as difficult as the old Elite and the new Advanced seems 20-30 levels above the old Elite. Heaven forbid I get to lvl 60 and try hitting up an Elite que.
Most experienced players can "feel" the difference almost like flying by the seat of their pants and to be honest I fly that way too.
I wont go into detail or specifics of my experiences thus far since the release of DR but everyone complaining about the rewards cut and the new longer grindfest are accurate in their responses. There is no fun playing advanced ques now. I will probably never enter an Elite que until this gets fixed and the rewards are absolutely appalling. You have taken a game that I have thoroughly enjoyed playing and turned it into a game I am seriously have second thoughts about.
The old Elite difficulty is not in the game anymore. You go from what I call super easy(Normal) to damn near impossible(Advanced). That gap needs to be fixed. Make advanced the new Elite, turn the current Advanced back to the old Elite difficulty and for heaven's sake bring back the old rewards and up the Elite rewards to something higher as to give everyone a goal to shoot for with their builds. Why would I play advanced there are few rewards and why would I bother with Elite if my team cant even kill the first cube. This is so wrong on every level.
As I said earlier, Im a DPS junkie but sometimes I am not in the mood to go ballz out...I enjoy the casual play as well on my other toons.
As for ground or storyline...I have no idea as that is not my type of gameplay...Im all Space.
Agreed. I keep coming to this thread hoping Cryptic are going to post something about this feedback...and hoping they restore my faith (and expenditure) as a casual player who USED to love the casual gameplay and excellent storylines.
Come on Cryptic, please respond to all thisfeedback and do not keep us all in the dark on weather this is likely to change anytime soon at all...