How the ship upgrade system should have been..

alaerick · October 2014

T5U Ships should have been automatically upgraded to T6. All other ships should have been upgradable to T6 with a token purchase, such as Mirror ships, T1-T5 ships, etc.

Why? People who spent money feel secure in making future purchases knowing that Cryptic will honor their financial support (or extreme loyalty from grinding) which would have made players happy. Additionally, people who love a particular ship but have never been able to have it be "end game quality" would finally be vindicated and also be happy with their favorite ship being usable.

Result? Win/Win

Existing paying customers feel happy, and people who have not yet paid feel enticed to do so.

Edit for clarity:

alaerick wrote: »

Let's say you like your very first ship and don't want to use another ship at end game.. but you do want it to be capable of handling the greatest challenges.. You level as normal but when you hit Vice Admiral you can now upgrade any ship in the game to a T6 equivalent. Any C-Store T5U are automatically upgraded to T6 because you spent a hefty sum on them already. This would encourage me and many others to invest in more ships. Look at the Enterprise TOS or NX class ships. They are what, rank Captain? Totally useless at end game.. But what if you want that ship to be your final ship? That's the point of my post.

So ok.. let's take this a step further. What if you want the Enterprise TOS era ship to be your ONLY ship from start to finish. There should be a system which allows you to upgrade your ship as you level up. Making it's final price from Tier 1 to T6 approximately equivalent to buying a T5U or a T6 ship less the value in zen of any missing consoles or all ships should be revamped to include a console. Each Tier of upgrade should have it's own unique cost in zen and should be accessible in an easy fashion in game.. Such as when you talk to the ship requisitions officer you should have the option to say "I would like to continue using my existing ship!" Which then prompts you to spend the associated value in Zen for that Tier of upgrade (up to your current tier option). So you could buy the Enterprise (TV SHow NX Class) Era bundle as a level 60 and then upgrade it directly to a T6. An example of the Tier pricing would look something like this:

Tier 1-2 = 100 Zen
Tier 2-3 = 200 Zen
Tier 3-4 = 300 Zen
Tier 4-5 = 400 Zen
Tier 5-6 = 1000 Zen (If consoles were added the prices should be adjusted to equal 2500 not 2000 for T6)
Fleet = 500 Zen

More choices, more happy captains, plenty of revenue for Cryptic, no slap in the face for players. Subscribers could get a free upgrade token & new ship requisition token at the same time. Everyone wins.

khan5000 · October 2014

alaerick wrote: »

T5U Ships should have been automatically upgraded to T6. All other ships should have been upgradable to T6, such as Mirror ships, T1-T5 ships, etc.

Why? People who spent money feel secure in making future purchases knowing that Cryptic will honor their financially support (or extreme loyalty from grinding) which would have made players happy. Additionally, people who love a particular ship but have never been able to have it be "end game quality" would finally be vindicated and also be happy with their favorite ship being usable.

Result? Win/Win

Existing paying customers feel happy, and people who have not yet paid feel enticed to do so.

So pretty much make everything free???
That's an awesome way to run a company.
and when T7 rolls around do we get those for free too???

jslyn · October 2014

I would have rather had the option to either use the T5-U Tokens like we have now or to use the different R&D Schools to retrofit the ship piece by piece in to T6.

alaerick · October 2014

khan5000 wrote: »

So pretty much make everything free???
That's an awesome way to run a company.
and when T7 rolls around do we get those for free too???

SMH. T5U ships would be upgraded because they were NOT free.. They were purchased! All other ships can be upgraded to best quality with, gasp.. a purchase!

For the love of god engage your brain before your fingers please and thank you

warmaker001b · October 2014

The sense of Entitlement is STRONG with this one.

alaerick · October 2014

warmaker001b wrote: »

The sense of Entitlement is STRONG with this one.

The sense of fail is strong with this one.. :rolleyes:

So you are totally happy with coughing over another 700 zen PER ship including 3 pack purchases? Really? Would you be so kind as to buy me the 9 Upgrade tokens I need to get my ships back up to snuff? Thanks!

seaofsorrows · October 2014

It's amazing that some people still don't understand that Cryptic is a business.

Their employees rely on their paychecks to make a living.

Some people expect them to put all the time and other resources into developing an expansion just to give it to everyone for absolutely nothing.

The ships cost next to nothing to upgrade and the system was offered as an alternative to telling people 'your ships are obsolete, go buy a new one.'

I'm cool with it.

simeion1 · October 2014

Socialism and well fare for all. Everyone has to have it now. Give me, give me.

alaerick · October 2014

seaofsorrows wrote: »

It's amazing that some people still don't understand that Cryptic is a business.

Their employees rely on their paychecks to make a living.

Some people expect them to put all the time and other resources into developing an expansion just to give it to everyone for absolutely nothing.

The ships cost next to nothing to upgrade and the system was offered as an alternative to telling people 'your ships are obsolete, go buy a new one.'

I'm cool with it.

Yeah and unlike some people I've actually gave them my money to support their company, but after this xpac. No more. Too greedy. Good god how did I get all of the idiotic apologists to troll one thread.. Oh snap.. I forgot to put on my flame resistant environmental suit.. damnit

khan5000 · October 2014

alaerick wrote: »

The sense of fail is strong with this one.. :rolleyes:

So you are totally happy with coughing over another 700 zen PER ship including 3 pack purchases? Really? Would you be so kind as to buy me the 9 Upgrade tokens I need to get my ships back up to snuff? Thanks!

When they announced that the upgrades would be between 700-1000z I mined dil and converted to zen until I had 1000z for all my characters. Not a single dime spent.

anazonda · October 2014

Do what I do OP: Don't play the upgrade game... It's really not that hard.

I see so many people being dissatisfied with this change, yet people seem to happily dish up money for upgrades.

You need to understand that F2P is Voting with your wallet: If you buy it, Cryptic look at the numbers and think: "Yea... we can do that".

prierin · October 2014

While I disagree with the OP I would counter with this: for a LIMITED TIME players currently in a T5 ship would have a free single upgrade to T5U. Say a 36 hour window. After that, 700 per/2000 for 4.

No T6 ships for free yet. They will come. In time.

seaofsorrows · October 2014

alaerick wrote: »

Yeah and unlike some people I've actually gave them my money to support their company,

It would seem that this comment was directed toward me, but of course it couldn't be since that would be absolutely idiotic. You know nothing about me and have no idea how much money I have or haven't spent on the game. I'll go ahead and assume that you didn't just make a totally baseless assumption out of thin air based on absolutely nothing. You're welcome.

but after this xpac. No more.

Fair enough, and that's your right. If you're going to just stop playing though, one has to wonder why take the time to start this thread?

Good god how did I get all of the idiotic apologists to troll one thread.. Oh snap.. I forgot to put on my flame resistant environmental suit.. damnit

The suit does help, mine totally shielded me from your statement as well. I assume your flame resistant suit was free because if you had to pay for it you would more then likely be complaining about that too.

jaguarskx · October 2014

seaofsorrows wrote: »

It's amazing that some people still don't understand that Cryptic is a business.

I want Cryptic to pay me to play STO as a F2P player.

alaerick · October 2014

seaofsorrows wrote: »

It would seem that this comment was directed toward me, but of course it couldn't be since that would be absolutely idiotic. You know nothing about me and have no idea how much money I have or haven't spent on the game. I'll go ahead and assume that you didn't just make a totally baseless assumption out of thin air based on absolutely nothing. You're welcome.

Fair enough, and that's your right. If you're going to just stop playing though, one has to wonder why take the time to start this thread?

The suit does help, mine totally shielded me from your statement as well. I assume your flame resistant suit was free because if you had to pay for it you would more then likely be complaining about that too.

I do believe it is you making baseless assumptions. It was not directed at you. I don't know who you are nor do I care. It was aimed at the general mass of 100% ftp players. I paid for this game. I do not feel the method they are looking to bring in more income is fair or worth while. I have too many alts. This new system is purely anti-alt. I already bought several ships. Vesta Pack, Defiant (all variants), was going to buy the oddesy pack but now hell the **** no. Instead of that pack being 5000 zen it is now.. 7100.. **** that **** man.

ursusmorologus · October 2014

seaofsorrows wrote: »

It's amazing that some people still don't understand that Cryptic is a business.

STO wasn't making money? Pretty sure everything I've ever heard from anybody was that it was very profitable already.

When did short-term profiteering that annoys the known-paying customers become good business?

alaerick · October 2014

ursusmorologus wrote: »

STO wasn't making money? Pretty sure everything I've ever heard from anybody was that it was very profitable already.

When did short-term profiteering that annoys the known-paying customers become good business?

Well said. They make a ton of money on lockboxes.. Why the need to double dip into the pockets of people who have already paid? This is a tax plain and simple. A bad one at that. It's a stealthy way to increase the price of every end game ship by at the very least 500 zen (4 pack) or 700 zen (single purchase).

And to anyone saying.. "At least they didn't obsolete your old ship! Be happy!!!" I say this.. obsoleting the old ships was never an option. Why? Cost of art asset production. It would have been even more ridiculous to pigeon hole your entire playerbase into 7 new ships or bust. What they did was bad, but that would be insane. So don't even pretend like they even considered that option at all. It was NEVER on the table.

seaofsorrows · October 2014

alaerick wrote: »

I do believe it is you making baseless assumptions. It was not directed at you. I don't know who you are nor do I care

It appeared that way since you quoted me right above the reply. If I misread it then you have my apologies.

We have a difference of opinion on this matter, it happens. Hopefully no hard feelings.

alaerick · October 2014

seaofsorrows wrote: »

It appeared that way since you quoted me right above the reply. If I misread it then you have my apologies.

We have a difference of opinion on this matter, it happens. Hopefully no hard feelings.

No problem man. I never mind someone having a different opinion than me, but I hate being accused of things that aren't true lol.. Anyway, I probably should have separated that sentence out of the rest of that paragraph. I was just stating that I know a lot of people don't pay for the game. That's fine and dandy. I did. I don't always have to have the latest greatest, but when I make a purchase, it's just a slap in the face to me to have that purchase become defunct shortly after making it. I'm soooo glad I held off on purchasing the Oddessy pack due to this xpac coming. Because had I of bought it too I would be royally screwed. I'm a bit of an alt-o-holic and to me this is either going to hit my wallet hard or force me to do unfun grinding for ages just so I can eventually have fun in the game again.. That is a sad thing to me.

cidstorm · October 2014

I agree with OP, it's sad how many people misinterpreted his post. It would be okay if the upgrade to tier 6 didn't give a ship trait though, because that might be too much work for it to actually happen.

moonshadowdark · October 2014

ursusmorologus wrote: »

STO wasn't making money? Pretty sure everything I've ever heard from anybody was that it was very profitable already.

When did short-term profiteering that annoys the known-paying customers become good business?

"Making a profit" in the MMO business is about the same as living paycheck to paycheck. They have enough money to cover the important expenses, but not enough money to go have a wild night out and they pray that their friends (paying players) can foot their half of the night's bill for them.

gurluas · October 2014

I agree, especially about the upgrade all ships part.
I hate how I can't upgrade my main ship.

alaerick · October 2014

Thanks for some people understanding what I am saying here.. A perfect example of why I believe my idea would have been 100000x better than the system we have now is this. There are a ton of ships which have no T5U, Fleet or T6 equivalent. For example: TOS Enterprise, Enterprise NX class, Vulcan Dykar (Spelling I forget), and others. I very much would consider buying the NX class or even the Dakyr (sp) because I like the way they look, hell there are other ships I love the looks of if ONLY, if ONLY they had a T6 option.

My suggestion was to provide a solid way for Cryptic to profit, increase the total number of available end game ship choices and not **** all over the playerbases existing purchases. It would truly have been a win/win instead of a slap in the face.

I am faced with a tough choice, forgo buying anymore T5U Packs due to the insane amount of cost involved in upgrading all of the variants to T6, grind my face off for years to even get half of my ships to T6, cough up a ton of cash (not an option at this time) or just plain quit out of frustration..

walshicus · October 2014

My biggest gripe is that T5U exists at all. Just call it Tier 6 and have a bunch of ultra-generic ship traits that unlock at ship mastery 5. That's basically the only difference between 5U and 6 anyway.

I mean who at Cryptic sat down and thought "what this game really needs is another layer of complexity to confound our ship categorisation"?

cidstorm · October 2014

walshicus wrote: »

My biggest gripe is that T5U exists at all. Just call it Tier 6 and have a bunch of ultra-generic ship traits that unlock at ship mastery 5. That's basically the only difference between 5U and 6 anyway.

I mean who at Cryptic sat down and thought "what this game really needs is another layer of complexity to confound our ship categorisation"?

I think t5us existence was a blunder too when we could have paid for a tier 6 upgrade. Having a pool of generic ship traits to pack with everything is a great idea. But I gotta say that I think the extra boff ability is the most important thing for the upgrade to give.

ghyudt · October 2014

Ummm, no? If I'm gonna grind out 3k zen just to buy one t6 ship, it had better be superior to t5s and t5us. Why? Because that's the point. What would the point be of getting a t6 ship when I can get my old t5 upgraded for free and have it be on even terms? TRIBBLE that. That's like asking for the Constitution to be on par with the excelsior for free. For someone who plays a f2p game, you expect an awful lot of free stuff, huh?

alaerick · October 2014

ghyudt wrote: »

Ummm, no? If I'm gonna grind out 3k zen just to buy one t6 ship, it had better be superior to t5s and t5us. Why? Because that's the point. What would the point be of getting a t6 ship when I can get my old t5 upgraded for free and have it be on even terms? TRIBBLE that. That's like asking for the Constitution to be on par with the excelsior for free. For someone who plays a f2p game, you expect an awful lot of free stuff, huh?

You seem new here so let me try to put this into perspective for you. When a new ship is released... let's just say the Vesta pack.. it costs 2500 per ship or 5000 for the pack.. The old ships were T5(U) but I am spending 5000 zen to get a T5 ship? Logic? Oh wait that's right you don't have a point to stand on. Currently with your logic my T5U ship should be vastly superior in every way to any T6 DR ship because my T5U ship will cost me MORE than your T6 DR ship.

T6 DR = 3000 + 500-700 for fleet
T5U = 2500 / 5000 + 500-700 for upgrade + 500-700 for Fleet PER ship in a pack. So that means 1500-2000 for the 3 pack to become upgraded..

Get the picture now?

bobbydazlers · October 2014

alaerick wrote: »

T5U Ships should have been automatically upgraded to T6. All other ships should have been upgradable to T6 with a token purchase, such as Mirror ships, T1-T5 ships, etc.

i can see your point in a way with T5 ships but all ships T1-T5 get real, so every ship even the very first one you get will be upgradable to T6, that doesnt leave new players very far to progress.

mcknight8708 · October 2014

ghyudt wrote: »

[...] For someone who plays a f2p game, you expect an awful lot of free stuff, huh?

Hi, I'm not a f2p player. I'm a long long term subscriber.
Can you please tell me, where I can get my free T6 upgrade tokens?
Will I get them when my chars hit lvl 60? I have eight. And five of them are currently on lvl 50 with various tier 5 C-Store purchased ships and configs.

Thx

alaerick · October 2014

bobbydazlers wrote: »

i can see your point in a way with T5 ships but all ships T1-T5 get real, so every ship even the very first one you get will be upgradable to T6, that doesnt leave new players very far to progress.

You are missing the point.

Let's say you like your very first ship and don't want to use another ship at end game.. but you do want it to be capable of handling the greatest challenges.. You level as normal but when you hit Vice Admiral you can now upgrade any ship in the game to a T6 equivalent. Any C-Store T5U are automatically upgraded to T6 because you spent a hefty sum on them already. This would encourage me and many others to invest in more ships. Look at the Enterprise TOS or NX class ships. They are what, rank Captain? Totally useless at end game.. But what if you want that ship to be your final ship? That's the point of my post.

So ok.. let's take this a step further. What if you want the Enterprise TOS era ship to be your ONLY ship from start to finish. There should be a system which allows you to upgrade your ship as you level up. Making it's final price from Tier 1 to T6 approximately equivalent to buying a T5U or a T6 ship less the value in zen of any missing consoles or all ships should be revamped to include a console. Each Tier of upgrade should have it's own unique cost in zen and should be accessible in an easy fashion in game.. Such as when you talk to the ship requisitions officer you should have the option to say "I would like to continue using my existing ship!" Which then prompts you to spend the associated value in Zen for that Tier of upgrade (up to your current tier option). So you could buy the Enterprise (TV SHow NX Class) Era bundle as a level 60 and then upgrade it directly to a T6. An example of the Tier pricing would look something like this:

Tier 1-2 = 100 Zen
Tier 2-3 = 200 Zen
Tier 3-4 = 300 Zen
Tier 4-5 = 400 Zen
Tier 5-6 = 1000 Zen (If consoles were added the prices should be adjusted to equal 2500 not 2000 for T6)
Fleet = 500 Zen

More choices, more happy captains, plenty of revenue for Cryptic, no slap in the face for players. Subscribers could get a free upgrade token & new ship requisition token at the same time. Everyone wins.

atomictiki · October 2014

seaofsorrows wrote: »

It's amazing that some people still don't understand that Cryptic is a business.

That's not the OPs argument at all. OP is describing a BETTER business move. One that is more ethical than the route Cryptic took. Personally I am resentful of how Cryptic went about this expansion and my negativity toward the company is pretty damn high.

Ship were already overpriced at $25 each. Now those same ships, to remain "competitive," are $32-$52 apiece and will still be inferior to T6. That's not good business, that's fleecing. And it's especially egregious because they feel they can get away with it by exploiting Trek fandom (and for the most part they do). By continuing these types of business practices they're killing their audience which will lead to this game getting smacked upside the head by the Invisible Hand of the Market.

How the ship upgrade system should have been..

Comments

When I think about everything we've been through together,

maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

and if that journey takes a little longer,

so we can do something we all believe in,

I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.