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A Proposal to Make Us Feel Like Admirals

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  • groomofweirdgroomofweird Member Posts: 1,045 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    *Strokes beard*....
    Yes...yes I like this idea OP.
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    "If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,788 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    khan5000 wrote: »
    Playing devils advocate here...the only star fleet admiral we spent real time with was Admiral Kirk and he commanded a ship and not a fleet...as far as we know.


    No, Decker commanded the ship. Kirk stole it from him. Then Spock commanded the ship. And Kirk stole it from him. Then Kruge command a ship. And Kirk stole it from him.
  • darkwhite0darkwhite0 Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    While admirals should be commanding fleets, our endgame characters are gallivanting around the galaxy on their own ships under orders from superiors. We never feel like flag officers.
    I don't see a problem with being an admiral in command of a starship - this can happen during war – I do, however, want to feel like a flag officer.

    The duty officer system does a great job of making us feel like a captain with a crew rather than a player and 5 BOFFS running around saving the galaxy. We can extend this idea to a fleet command system in which we send individual NPC ships to perform missions. These missions can earn us Commendation XP just like the DOFF assignments, but take much longer and reward more XP.

    The quality, traits, and type of ship you send will affect the outcome of the mission. For example, sending an Olympic Class hospital ship to patrol for Nausicaan pirates could lead to a disaster (ship will be put into drydock, just like an injured Doff will be put into sickbay). Sending an armed to the teeth Defiant class to patrol for pirates can lead to a critical success. On the other hand sending an armed to the teeth Defiant to perform a humanitarian mission can end badly, as well.


    Ships would be put into multiple classes, each with multiple ship types. This is not unlike Boffs and Doffs, with a profession and a race that influences Doff traits.

    Warship:
    • Ideal for patrol missions, sending into known combat zones

    Escorts and raiders of this type could have traits like
    o Firepower
    o Fast (Necessary for getting to the action quickly)
    o Nimble
    o Stealthy
    o Small, etc.

    Cruisers of this type could have traits such as
    o Firepower
    o Imposing
    o Resilient
    o Large, etc.

    Science vessels of this kind have traits such as
    o Stealthy
    o Fast (Necessary for getting to the action quickly)
    o Advanced sensors
    o Advanced shields, etc.

    Humanitarian:
    • Federation and Fed allied Romulans only (I don’t see Klingons as very humanitarian)
    •Ideal for diplomatic missions (First contacts, Trade negotiations, etc)

    Cruisers of this kind could have traits such as
    o Large
    o Resilient
    o High capacity
    o Large Sickbay, etc.

    Science vessels of this type can have traits such as
    o Fast (For getting to the mission quickly)
    o Large sickbay
    o Advanced sensors/shields
    o Large sickbay, etc.


    Exploration

    Cruisers of this kind could have traits such as
    o Large
    o Resilient
    o High capacity
    o Large Sickbay
    o Long range

    Science vessels of this type can have traits such as
    o Advanced sensors/shields
    o Advanced labs, etc

    Higher quality ships have more of these traits and have a higher chance of critical success.

    Of course, these ships can’t accompany us everywhere, but we can set ships to assist us when we call for fleet support, rather than have a generic cruiser show up.

    By implementing this system we can feel like Vice Admirals soon to be Fleet Admirals, rather just an a captain claiming to be an Admiral.

    Thoughts?


    shut up and take my like

    awesome idea!!!
  • george021898george021898 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Thank you all for your support and suggestions. I really appreciate it.

    I can't wait until the devs implement this ingame! Spread the word!

    Thanks,
    OP
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    love the idea and would use it
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=895531

    Still waiting on some word from the devs if my idea will be done or not. Should be hearing something any day now...pretttttty soon...like it should be happening any second now...probably hear something tomorrow...or maybe never.
  • george021898george021898 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    stonewbie wrote: »
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=895531

    Still waiting on some word from the devs if my idea will be done or not. Should be hearing something any day now...pretttttty soon...like it should be happening any second now...probably hear something tomorrow...or maybe never.

    Lol. Thanks for showing me that. Didn't know that thread existed. Let's get enough support for this idea and we can claim our inalienable right to be admirals! :D

    Really with enough support, we can bring this to the Devs' attention.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Pass. The Star Trek hero rank is commander (Romulans, and Sisko for the first three seasons) or captain (everybody else). We are Star Trek heroes, not mission givers or villains.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • george021898george021898 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Pass. The Star Trek hero rank is commander (Romulans, and Sisko for the first three seasons) or captain (everybody else). We are Star Trek heroes, not mission givers or villains.

    I don't think we are going to back to being commanders/captains.
    Since we are admirals, we should be able to be admirals.

    But I do believe that anybody who wants to act like a commander/captain should have the right to be addressed as such and act as such in game. But that's another noble cause to fight for.
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Lol. Thanks for showing me that. Didn't know that thread existed. Let's get enough support for this idea and we can claim our inalienable right to be admirals! :D

    Really with enough support, we can bring this to the Devs' attention.




    I made a point of using existing game mechanics for that idea rather then something completely new. I feel that if anyone wants their suggestion to have a higher chance of getting implemented you use current in game mechanics instead of completely new ones.

    The main thing was that those ships only existed on the roster. Doffs? they only exist on a roster right? when you send them to do a mission they dont materialize in the game world that your player avatar occupies. Nope a timer starts, the doff is unavailable on the roster for XX minutes or hours and when they are done with the mission the results are posted and they are available again. Same thing with the shiplike doff system. The roster is for ships, the ships only exist on the roster. When you click a ship to send it on a mission it just becomes unavailable for XX hours while it goes and does the mission. And same thing the ship doesnt materialize in sector space or in orbit outside ESD right next to me. No it's all just timers and on the roster.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    We also had four movies where Admital Kirk commanded a ship, hopped galaxies and saved the Earth.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • george021898george021898 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    stonewbie wrote: »
    I made a point of using existing game mechanics for that idea rather then something completely new. I feel that if anyone wants their suggestion to have a higher chance of getting implemented you use current in game mechanics instead of completely new ones.

    The main thing was that those ships only existed on the roster. Doffs? they only exist on a roster right? when you send them to do a mission they dont materialize in the game world that your player avatar occupies. Nope a timer starts, the doff is unavailable on the roster for XX minutes or hours and when they are done with the mission the results are posted and they are available again. Same thing with the shiplike doff system. The roster is for ships, the ships only exist on the roster. When you click a ship to send it on a mission it just becomes unavailable for XX hours while it goes and does the mission. And same thing the ship doesnt materialize in sector space or in orbit outside ESD right next to me. No it's all just timers and on the roster.

    Agreed completely. Because this is simply an extension of the DOFF system, it should be relatively easy to program (does not need to be built from scratch) and easy to get working reliably. And there's no need for new commendation ranks. We can earn the same diplomatic, trade, marauding, colonization, exploration, military, and espionage XP from this system. Instead we do it on a larger scale: as admirals, not just captains.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Sounds a lot like what Al Rivera's ultimate dev goal is for STO.

    What about long-ranged and short-ranged missions? What about ship types other than Escort, Cruiser, and Science Vessel?
  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Why would you want to feel like an Admiral? All you'd do is sit on your butt telling everyone no all the time.

    How unfun is your life that being a buzzkill is what you consider entertainment?
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
  • george021898george021898 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Sounds a lot like what Al Rivera's ultimate dev goal is for STO.

    What about long-ranged and short-ranged missions? What about ship types other than Escort, Cruiser, and Science Vessel?

    Just like the DOFF system there should be missions of different durations.

    I put in more of a basic concept for ship types, but I agree that all ship types should be represented,
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I put in more of a basic concept for ship types, but I agree that all ship types should be represented,
    Agreed. Escorts and Raptors could be more short-ranged strike team-oriented, whereas Destroyers could be more long-ranged, built for multiple skirmishes in one outing.
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    there is someone called the operations officer, the one in charge who knows the situation off hand better then anyone else, be it an ensign or lieutenant or whatever other rank is on the table in the enlisted ranks, if they know what to do next and how to defeat it best, or knows how an enemy works and what they may do next and how to get ahead of it and such, then they should be the ones to give you orders and instructions, otherwise if you tell em to shut up before they are finished and they were about to talk about snipers setup in a kill zone, stealth troopers with chemical weapons on the range of flamethrower type of spray, lethal to organics, on top of the nasty hidden booby traps and mines, you'd be wishing you hadnt dismissed them after you get caught right in the middle of it.

    but if you want to wonder into that arrogant rage, then i will laugh when it happens :P.

    back to the matter on hand, i also think that the max rank attainable is captain as well.

    0-3 cadet
    4-10 ensign
    11-20 lt junior grade
    21-30 lieutenant
    31-40 lt commander
    41-50 commander
    51-60 captain

    admiralty never made sense without a fleet of your own, thats what the rank is for.

    Hate to tell you, unless it is a training situation, no one below your grade would address you in the manner that we have seen outside the courtesy of your rank in relation to their own rank. It doesn't matter if the Ops Officer or the Training Officer is an expert in that field. However, I do agree with your rank system. We are Captains in all but name. Technically by Starfleet's regulations, we shouldn't be the commanding officers, but rather all Number Ones, unless your KDF and/or Republic commnander.
  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    there is someone called the operations officer, the one in charge who knows the situation off hand better then anyone else, be it an ensign or lieutenant or whatever other rank is on the table in the enlisted ranks, if they know what to do next and how to defeat it best, or knows how an enemy works and what they may do next and how to get ahead of it and such, then they should be the ones to give you orders and instructions, otherwise if you tell em to shut up before they are finished and they were about to talk about snipers setup in a kill zone, stealth troopers with chemical weapons on the range of flamethrower type of spray, lethal to organics, on top of the nasty hidden booby traps and mines, you'd be wishing you hadnt dismissed them after you get caught right in the middle of it.

    but if you want to wonder into that arrogant rage, then i will laugh when it happens :P.

    back to the matter on hand, i also think that the max rank attainable is captain as well.

    0-3 cadet
    4-10 ensign
    11-20 lt junior grade
    21-30 lieutenant
    31-40 lt commander
    41-50 commander
    51-60 captain

    admiralty never made sense without a fleet of your own, thats what the rank is for.

    Granted there might be an individual with more knowledge on a topic thats of a lower rank. But there is still a certain way youre expected to approach a Senior Officer when attempting to brief them on a situation. And the NPCs fail to convey that sort of respectfulness thats expected in a structured organization with ranks.

    No ones asking for the NPCs to behave like quivering minions that cower at your appearance. Only that they behave as if theyre talking to someone of equal or greater rank then them instead of some peon their sending off on some task they dont expect us to accomplish.
  • edited September 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    Hate to tell you, unless it is a training situation, no one below your grade would address you in the manner that we have seen outside the courtesy of your rank in relation to their own rank. It doesn't matter if the Ops Officer or the Training Officer is an expert in that field. However, I do agree with your rank system. We are Captains in all but name. Technically by Starfleet's regulations, we shouldn't be the commanding officers, but rather all Number Ones, unless your KDF and/or Republic commnander.
    Granted there might be an individual with more knowledge on a topic thats of a lower rank. But there is still a certain way youre expected to approach a Senior Officer when attempting to brief them on a situation. And the NPCs fail to convey that sort of respectfulness thats expected in a structured organization with ranks.

    No ones asking for the NPCs to behave like quivering minions that cower at your appearance. Only that they behave as if theyre talking to someone of equal or greater rank then them instead of some peon their sending off on some task they dont expect us to accomplish.

    you both mention the lack of respect a more senior officer gets by an officer on the scene, however one cant be picky or choosey about how they choose to act or react if they are in the middle of it, you either do or die, which in some cases fits the thought of the map and mission, others maybe planning actions for other groups of officers on their own attacks and your merely the angry pawn in another group :P, one cant loose their head in giving orders and directions. and then there is the style of how someone commands, some may not have any use to stop and chat especially with explosions not more then 10 feet away.
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  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Great ideas OP. This, along with the rumored 'space away team' would really make me feel like someone in charge, rather than some sort of errand-running ensign. I really hope Cryptic considers implementing something like this (and the rumored 'space away team')
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    you both mention the lack of respect a more senior officer gets by an officer on the scene, however one cant be picky or choosey about how they choose to act or react if they are in the middle of it, you either do or die, which in some cases fits the thought of the map and mission, others maybe planning actions for other groups of officers on their own attacks and your merely the angry pawn in another group :P, one cant loose their head in giving orders and directions. and then there is the style of how someone commands, some may not have any use to stop and chat especially with explosions not more then 10 feet away.

    You are obviously not getting it. During a combat situation, the highest ranking officer is in command of the mission. Officers just don't go around into other commands during combat and other situations. Also, the dynamics of talking to a ranking officer is beaten into your head in training (officer and enlisted) in no matter what situation.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    You are obviously not getting it. During a combat situation, the highest ranking officer is in command of the mission. Officers just don't go around into other commands during combat and other situations. Also, the dynamics of talking to a ranking officer is beaten into your head in training (officer and enlisted) in no matter what situation.

    this isnt real life stuff, this is star trek :P. i doubt you will get that tough as nails drill sarge whose mere barking makes cadets wet themselves in fear. and just because a senior officer is on the field doesnt mean he commands anything yet, he or she also needs orders to take over and "coordinate" with the officer who knows the situation best, in other words your not in full command, but share responsibility and there is no way you can order the suggestions of this officer who has filled you in because they may know the inner thought processes of this enemy you may wont know of, and stuff like that cant be taught through word of mouth, it can be learned by studying the enemy over time, something a new commander doesnt have time to do.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • carlosbflycarlosbfly Member Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    All of this really spawns from the utterly daft and poorly thought through notion from Cryptic that we should be Admirals rather than Captains.... :rolleyes:
  • johnniemesojohnniemeso Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    the way I think of it is that in the future they have higher ranks of officer. like Jorel is your immediate superior

    since you are VA, he is admiral

    then he has a boss with another higher rank etc

    so we are all in fact low ranking officers in the whole scheme
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    this isnt real life stuff, this is star trek :P. i doubt you will get that tough as nails drill sarge whose mere barking makes cadets wet themselves in fear. and just because a senior officer is on the field doesnt mean he commands anything yet, he or she also needs orders to take over and "coordinate" with the officer who knows the situation best, in other words your not in full command, but share responsibility and there is no way you can order the suggestions of this officer who has filled you in because they may know the inner thought processes of this enemy you may wont know of, and stuff like that cant be taught through word of mouth, it can be learned by studying the enemy over time, something a new commander doesnt have time to do.


    Responsibilities and authority arent usually shared by two people

    Take a look at ST:TMP when Kirk took over and Decker became his First Officer or his XO, i dont care Deckers title isnt important. One of their chit-chats i believe it happened after the wormhole event was about Kirks unfamiliarity with the new Enterprise. That meant that Decker was pretty much the technical expert on the Enterprises systems, but Kirk still had command. Kirk gets advice from his first officer, and that happens through out the series and in the other shows too (Voyager DS9). The Captain will listen to suggestions and his course of action may or may not take any suggestions or other information into account. Whether he listens to his subordinates or advisors or not doesnt matter, ultimately he is held responsible for the outcome of his actions. If Decker or Riker or Chakotay say "Captain i think we should do X". If the Captain does X and the outcome is a disaster, then it is the Captain who is responsible, even if their actions was dictated entirely by the advice of their FO. Only exception might be if their FO was negligent in giving out their info like if they lied or something.

    Also in the IRL military and in Starfleet you dont go into a strategic situation blind. A tactical situation yes, such as a firefight that you were redirected to. But a strategic situation like say hey go to this part of the globe (or space) and neutralize these bad guys, isnt really something you go into unprepared. IRL Military and Starfleet has reports on top of reports on top of logs on top of reports. Someone with a lot of technical expertise on a subject isnt going to keep quiet about it. They put all that stuff into logs, reports, after-action reports, first contact reports and so on. They dont show too much of that when you are watching Star Trek but it does happen. How else would Janeway have known about the Q? because she read Picards reports on the Q. It doesnt mean you can go somewhere and do whatever cause you think you know everything, you will still need a little outside help, but at least you arent completely blind.
  • hanoverfist1970hanoverfist1970 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Love it , great idea.
  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    you both mention the lack of respect a more senior officer gets by an officer on the scene, however one cant be picky or choosey about how they choose to act or react if they are in the middle of it, you either do or die, which in some cases fits the thought of the map and mission, others maybe planning actions for other groups of officers on their own attacks and your merely the angry pawn in another group :P, one cant loose their head in giving orders and directions. and then there is the style of how someone commands, some may not have any use to stop and chat especially with explosions not more then 10 feet away.

    And youre pretending every quest giver or NPC is under threat of death when they present you with information. Or that a threat of death suddenly dictates they throw out the chain of command and behave which ever way they wish.

    There most definitely are moments in which this sort of behavior may be forgiven (ie a full blown fire fight where the explosions and sounds of battle may drown out polite conversation). But STO surely does not present these moments in the majority of instances. The only time you were ever treated with some sort of prestige or worthy of your rank was on the old ESD where Cadets and Ensigns would randomly start a conversation with you (Also something you wouldnt see in a structured organization) and theyd salute you. Even in the shows and movies with parts of the ships being blown to kingdom come Ensigns, Lieutenants and Lt Commanders still retain their senses and speak to the Captain or Admiral in a manner that is a reflection of the station and authority that the Captain or Admiral holds.

    But when a Lieutenant sitting in some office on ESD barks orders to you rather then brief, I know its hard to differentiate but the two arent always the same, it is obnoxious and rather immersion breaking. Either I am an Admiral and I should be treated in such a manner by those of lower rank. Or Im not and Im some lacky with no real authority beyond my own bridge crew. Cryptic seems to struggle with this sort of thing through out the storyline.
  • drmoxdrmox Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    OP I like the concept!

    Iit sounds like an interesting variant of the DOff System.

    Iif it threw in some decision making steps along the way as an addition to the minigame using Ship "Trading Cards" then it would be a nice addition to have as a feature for being an Admiral.

    Things like setting level of aggression, a plot twist which you have to decide on and/or include more ships to assist the mission, opportunities to set ships on missions you create like a project to increase influence x and y.

    I could see this working towards some sort of galaxy territory game either connected to the wider game with other player's inputs affecting the state of play or separate that is beholden to your experience alone.

    Being in a Fleet with Active Holdings could also affect this new game.

    Eitherway this could be connected to your BOffs too, alsorts of opportunities to make it a fun and interesting interactive experience.

    Sounds like a very creative opportunity for Cryptic to sink their dev time into for the future somewhere. :)
    image
  • chalpenchalpen Member Posts: 2,207 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    You know, admirals do paperwork. I want cryptic to have a paperwork daily were we go to the ready room and write a briefing note.

    Or how about a daily were we move paper from one side of the desk and put it on the other side
    Should I start posting again after all this time?
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