Lets see... 37k dil per item....figure about a 3 dozen or more items to upgrade per toon (not to reach gold...just to return to top mark status).....8k per toon refine limit.
Sounds like at least a mil dil per toon roughly to return to top tier status things I already bought at top tier status. That's approx 125 days or $60 a toon.
Not what I call respecting previous investments. If I do this at all, some of my chars need to get retired.
The information in the opening post was only using the 5k upgrade kits. there are bigger ones that offer 12800 points and work more cost effective dilithium. you are actually looking at closer to 15k of dilithium per item. (shields and engines cost a little more.)
thats also assuming you have to level up everything. the game will drop XIII and XIV items now. missions rewards will probably give them too. You may find naturally playing the game kits you out in lots of what you need and you limit yourself to upgrading the sets and items you dont want to lose.
edit - assuming tribble numbers are accurate. they could always change, up or down, so dont assume everything is its final state.
If they implement that lots of ppl will stop playing (including me).
so for upgrading whole ship i need 1000$, this is not EVE online.
This game is not worth 1000$. For that kind of money i can buy used car in good shape.
This could be ok if we can refine 100k dilithium per day. (that wont happen).
If they implement that lots of ppl will stop playing (including me).
Or will simply choose not to upgrade their stuff. I was somewhat excited after hearing about upgrading items, but looking at these prices, I'm out. I"m a casual player - I don't have time to grind millions of dil, and I don't have money to buy it.
I've been playing for a couple of years now, and I rarely spend any dil - I think I cashed out about 120K once for some zen, all told I've probably used less than 140K, plus probably another 75-100K I've contributed for fleet projects here and there. And between 6 characters I've probably got about 500K dil on hand, so that's a total of around 750K earned in three-ish years.
Yeah, I don't see me using this system much.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
Given the rampant speculation and misinformation regarding the cost of upgrading items, I can share the following from my own testing just a few moments ago...
Using only the Level 10 upgrade (5k Tech Points per use) and upgrading a Mk XII Romulan Plasma Beam Array (Romulan Rep Store) to Mk XIV :
Each upgrade token requires 950 dilithium per use
Mk XII to Mk XIII - 64,000 Tech Points (at 5k Tech points per token) (950 x 13 = 12350)
Mk XIII to Mk XIV - 128,000 Tech Points (at 5k Tech points per token) (950 x 26 = 24700)
Total cost is about 37,000 dilithium
This is not that unreasonable baring in mind this was less than the optimally efficient token for me to be using...
Reports of 200,000 dilithium are probably total cost PER SHIP of ALL weapons using the level 15 upgrade token, which is more than twice the Tech Points of the level 10 token, meaning you can more than halve the (roughly) 37,000 dilithium, per Romulan Plasma Beam Array, it cost me just now...
your right that isnt unreasonable at all thats only if your looking at a single part you want upgraded, but your looking to go from 12 to 14 which im assuming everyone will be doing you got your 37k but what if someone wants to upgrade all 8 of their beam banks? your looking at 296k dilithium just for that. thats the point where it looks quite unreasonable. and what if you want to upgrade all your TRIBBLE, plus the beams? 8 beams + 4 ship parts + 10 consoles so your looking at a grand total of 814k dilithium just to upgrade everything in full.
thats in response to your math.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Or will simply choose not to upgrade their stuff. I was somewhat excited after hearing about upgrading items, but looking at these prices, I'm out. I"m a casual player - I don't have time to grind millions of dil, and I don't have money to buy it.
Good on you; but I fear it normally doesn't work that way in the MMO world. Usually, when ppl are no longer really invested in the game (both literally and figuratively), and stop uprading stuff, or try and keep up, they will eventually just call it quits altogether. That's a real danger.
It certainly holds true for me personally. Should I decide not to do the, what, 375k Dilithium uprade needed per full ship, I may still fly about a bit, but soon enough would just log in less and less, until simply not at all any more.
your right that isnt unreasonable at all thats only if your looking at a single part you want upgraded, but your looking to go from 12 to 14 which im assuming everyone will be doing you got your 37k but what if someone wants to upgrade all 8 of their beam banks? your looking at 296k dilithium just for that. thats the point where it looks quite unreasonable. and what if you want to upgrade all your TRIBBLE, plus the beams? 8 beams + 4 ship parts + 10 consoles so your looking at a grand total of 814k dilithium just to upgrade everything in full.
thats in response to your math.
I think a reasonable comparison is - what did it cost you to get all 8 weapons to Mark XII, the current end-game gear? I honestly don't know.
Of course, you can try to argue that this would be too expensive, but Cryptic basically wants you to reach endgame all over again, if the cost isn't similar as the first time, it would be surprising to me. But an important thing to consider on Cryptic'S end is - just because we're higher level doesn't mean we can make more dilithium. The DIlithium Refinement limit is the hard cap that won't go away. This is particular important if you also consider the next "generation" of players that hasn't reached endgame yet. If they first need to level to Mark XII, and then take the same amount of time to go to Mark XIV as they took to get to Mark XII, you shouldn'T be surprised if they find it tedious and just don't bother.
Just remember when you think something is to expensive, don't just post anywhere - there are specific feedback threads on the gear upgrade system.
But make sure you're informed. Knee-Jerk reactions on hear-say will not get you anything. (This isn't directed at you, but some of the "item upgrade cost excessive" betray a lot of ignorance on the actual mechanics, and on that basis, there isn't any reason for Cryptic to listen to it. It'S just noise, no signal.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I do not consider this pricing to be reasonable. Its 125 days of dill refining cap for a f2p player to upgrade their ship to full Mk XIV purple. To achieve max rarity we are looking at a year+.
I put money into this game, I can get there sooner, but without their f2p friends the p2p players will eventually jump ship too.
The refining cap of 8k dilithium will impose a huge time gate on new f2p players. This is not a good thing.
The refining cap of 8k dilithium will impose a huge time gate on new f2p players. This is not a good thing.
It has no more impact on new players then it does existing players. New players will still level through the Rep systems to get Mk XII gear - as well as getting some from drops. Nothing has changed in that regard at all. Plus most players will not need Epic Mk XIV gear. This is primarily an PvPer issue - and most of STO's player-base does not PvP. So it will not affect new players any more then it does existing players.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I think a reasonable comparison is - what did it cost you to get all 8 weapons to Mark XII, the current end-game gear? I honestly don't know.
Of course, you can try to argue that this would be too expensive, but Cryptic basically wants you to reach endgame all over again, if the cost isn't similar as the first time, it would be surprising to me. But an important thing to consider on Cryptic'S end is - just because we're higher level doesn't mean we can make more dilithium. The DIlithium Refinement limit is the hard cap that won't go away. This is particular important if you also consider the next "generation" of players that hasn't reached endgame yet. If they first need to level to Mark XII, and then take the same amount of time to go to Mark XIV as they took to get to Mark XII, you shouldn'T be surprised if they find it tedious and just don't bother.
Just remember when you think something is to expensive, don't just post anywhere - there are specific feedback threads on the gear upgrade system.
But make sure you're informed. Knee-Jerk reactions on hear-say will not get you anything. (This isn't directed at you, but some of the "item upgrade cost excessive" betray a lot of ignorance on the actual mechanics, and on that basis, there isn't any reason for Cryptic to listen to it. It'S just noise, no signal.)
we all have our own ways and opinions, i couldnt run up 814k even if i tried! got so much stuff outside the game to take care of, its not a kneejerk reaction, its just a fact for me. for others who got a great number of toons and can grind day over day without end, im sure dilthium doesnt mean much. however i also know that stuff on tribble is there for a purpose to be tested and nothing is final until it hits holo.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
What I suspect will happen here is exactly what already is common in both champs and never winter where this mechanic originated: people will not upgrade all the way except for PvP.
In champs gear mods can be "fused" up to rank 9 but most players run rank 7 at end game, many just use rank 6. In nw enchantments go up to rank 10, but again, rank 7 and 8 are the norm. I strongly predict that we will see the same behavior here with lots of rank 12&13 gear.
forgot to add since another person posted, no point editing. i have an opinion on the subject, but you note i have not directed it in any direction, i know just as much as anyone else who knows cryptic that these things called entitlement claims are never read or listened to. im always careful with this stuff.
but still maybe 37k dilthium for one beam at a time when possible, is not entirely out of chance as stated.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Or will simply choose not to upgrade their stuff. I was somewhat excited after hearing about upgrading items, but looking at these prices, I'm out. I"m a casual player - I don't have time to grind millions of dil, and I don't have money to buy it.
I've been playing for a couple of years now, and I rarely spend any dil - I think I cashed out about 120K once for some zen, all told I've probably used less than 140K, plus probably another 75-100K I've contributed for fleet projects here and there. And between 6 characters I've probably got about 500K dil on hand, so that's a total of around 750K earned in three-ish years.
Yeah, I don't see me using this system much.
Yeah I'm not likely to waste much time with this system either, as it is its I can even be bothered to refine that max possible dil most days and the one thing I would have worked to upgrade to Gold Quality, the Hangar Bays, won't be upgradably by design, so its just not worth the aggrovation.
If I happen to accumulate alot of dil over time, which is possible there isn't much I want to buy with it right now, I may choose to fool around with the system, but I won't be taking it seriously.
Given the rampant speculation and misinformation regarding the cost of upgrading items, I can share the following from my own testing just a few moments ago...
Using only the Level 10 upgrade (5k Tech Points per use) and upgrading a Mk XII Romulan Plasma Beam Array (Romulan Rep Store) to Mk XIV :
...
I have not really been following crafting / ship upgrades / gear upgrades... Can someone clarify what the above highlighted text mean?
i think 200k was someone upgrading to gold quality.
Gold and ultraviolet are parallel gear qualities, aren't they?
If you're trying to upgrade blues/greens or low mark items, sure, you may have items that cost more than a million dilithium to upgrade. Like the TR 116 or Chromodynamic Armor. I imagine that will be very expensive and may be very desirable in the case of the TR 116.
Of course, you can try to argue that this would be too expensive, but Cryptic basically wants you to reach endgame all over again, if the cost isn't similar as the first time, it would be surprising to me. But an important thing to consider on Cryptic'S end is - just because we're higher level doesn't mean we can make more dilithium.
And just think, Cryptic will probably pull another ship tier and mark increase next year!
Gold and ultraviolet are parallel gear qualities, aren't they?
If you're trying to upgrade blues/greens or low mark items, sure, you may have items that cost more than a million dilithium to upgrade. Like the TR 116 or Chromodynamic Armor. I imagine that will be very expensive and may be very desirable in the case of the TR 116.
There are 3 grades of upgrade materials, one can be crafted at R&D level 5, one 10 and one 15.
Okay, thanks...
Not sure if I am gonna bother crafting... the original crafting system was kinda of turn off for me.. I might make trying the new crafting system a 2015 New Year Resolution...
Gold and ultraviolet are parallel gear qualities, aren't they?
If you're trying to upgrade blues/greens or low mark items, sure, you may have items that cost more than a million dilithium to upgrade. Like the TR 116 or Chromodynamic Armor. I imagine that will be very expensive and may be very desirable in the case of the TR 116.
Upgrading Mk is easy. If you start with a really low level Item you can get more than one mk per upgrade pack. Once you get up around 9 and 11 is where it starts to have a real cost.
Also what the OP failed to add is:
The time and required to create 1 Tech Upgrade kit.
To make an "Enchanced Tech Upgrade Kit" also requires Resources/Materials and time. And this is only to go from Mark to Mark, it doesn't add the cost to go from Rarity to Rarity.
So yes, you conceivably "could" farm for all the Materials required, then craft the components required to create the Upgrade Kits, then create the Upgrade Kits, then apply them to the item ... but I don't think many players will want to wait 3 months to get 1 item up to level XIV.
But wait, there's more ... The C-Store is disabled on Tribble, but what's the bet that in there we will see a mysterious new item/items for sale?
One that will drastically reduce the time required and maybe also an item that will drastically increase the chance of a Rarity upgrade?
For only a few Z you can haz that shiny new Gold XIV item ... just open yer wallet ... Can you say "Coalescent Ward"?
Comments
The information in the opening post was only using the 5k upgrade kits. there are bigger ones that offer 12800 points and work more cost effective dilithium. you are actually looking at closer to 15k of dilithium per item. (shields and engines cost a little more.)
thats also assuming you have to level up everything. the game will drop XIII and XIV items now. missions rewards will probably give them too. You may find naturally playing the game kits you out in lots of what you need and you limit yourself to upgrading the sets and items you dont want to lose.
edit - assuming tribble numbers are accurate. they could always change, up or down, so dont assume everything is its final state.
If they implement that lots of ppl will stop playing (including me).
so for upgrading whole ship i need 1000$, this is not EVE online.
This game is not worth 1000$. For that kind of money i can buy used car in good shape.
This could be ok if we can refine 100k dilithium per day. (that wont happen).
p2w game always die. remember that cryptic.
I've been playing for a couple of years now, and I rarely spend any dil - I think I cashed out about 120K once for some zen, all told I've probably used less than 140K, plus probably another 75-100K I've contributed for fleet projects here and there. And between 6 characters I've probably got about 500K dil on hand, so that's a total of around 750K earned in three-ish years.
Yeah, I don't see me using this system much.
--Red Annorax
in this game its opposite and it gonna kill the game.
your right that isnt unreasonable at all thats only if your looking at a single part you want upgraded, but your looking to go from 12 to 14 which im assuming everyone will be doing you got your 37k but what if someone wants to upgrade all 8 of their beam banks? your looking at 296k dilithium just for that. thats the point where it looks quite unreasonable. and what if you want to upgrade all your TRIBBLE, plus the beams? 8 beams + 4 ship parts + 10 consoles so your looking at a grand total of 814k dilithium just to upgrade everything in full.
thats in response to your math.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Good on you; but I fear it normally doesn't work that way in the MMO world. Usually, when ppl are no longer really invested in the game (both literally and figuratively), and stop uprading stuff, or try and keep up, they will eventually just call it quits altogether. That's a real danger.
It certainly holds true for me personally. Should I decide not to do the, what, 375k Dilithium uprade needed per full ship, I may still fly about a bit, but soon enough would just log in less and less, until simply not at all any more.
Of course, you can try to argue that this would be too expensive, but Cryptic basically wants you to reach endgame all over again, if the cost isn't similar as the first time, it would be surprising to me. But an important thing to consider on Cryptic'S end is - just because we're higher level doesn't mean we can make more dilithium. The DIlithium Refinement limit is the hard cap that won't go away. This is particular important if you also consider the next "generation" of players that hasn't reached endgame yet. If they first need to level to Mark XII, and then take the same amount of time to go to Mark XIV as they took to get to Mark XII, you shouldn'T be surprised if they find it tedious and just don't bother.
Just remember when you think something is to expensive, don't just post anywhere - there are specific feedback threads on the gear upgrade system.
But make sure you're informed. Knee-Jerk reactions on hear-say will not get you anything. (This isn't directed at you, but some of the "item upgrade cost excessive" betray a lot of ignorance on the actual mechanics, and on that basis, there isn't any reason for Cryptic to listen to it. It'S just noise, no signal.)
I put money into this game, I can get there sooner, but without their f2p friends the p2p players will eventually jump ship too.
The refining cap of 8k dilithium will impose a huge time gate on new f2p players. This is not a good thing.
we all have our own ways and opinions, i couldnt run up 814k even if i tried! got so much stuff outside the game to take care of, its not a kneejerk reaction, its just a fact for me. for others who got a great number of toons and can grind day over day without end, im sure dilthium doesnt mean much. however i also know that stuff on tribble is there for a purpose to be tested and nothing is final until it hits holo.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
In champs gear mods can be "fused" up to rank 9 but most players run rank 7 at end game, many just use rank 6. In nw enchantments go up to rank 10, but again, rank 7 and 8 are the norm. I strongly predict that we will see the same behavior here with lots of rank 12&13 gear.
but still maybe 37k dilthium for one beam at a time when possible, is not entirely out of chance as stated.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yeah I'm not likely to waste much time with this system either, as it is its I can even be bothered to refine that max possible dil most days and the one thing I would have worked to upgrade to Gold Quality, the Hangar Bays, won't be upgradably by design, so its just not worth the aggrovation.
If I happen to accumulate alot of dil over time, which is possible there isn't much I want to buy with it right now, I may choose to fool around with the system, but I won't be taking it seriously.
I have not really been following crafting / ship upgrades / gear upgrades... Can someone clarify what the above highlighted text mean?
There are 3 grades of upgrade materials, one can be crafted at R&D level 5, one 10 and one 15.
I believe that cost is just from XII to XIII, not XIV.
It also does not include increasing quality to purple then UV then gold.
Gold and ultraviolet are parallel gear qualities, aren't they?
If you're trying to upgrade blues/greens or low mark items, sure, you may have items that cost more than a million dilithium to upgrade. Like the TR 116 or Chromodynamic Armor. I imagine that will be very expensive and may be very desirable in the case of the TR 116.
Shields with REG mods, etc.
No just the ones that want to pull their weight in STFs....
And just think, Cryptic will probably pull another ship tier and mark increase next year!
nope, common/uncommon/rare/very rare/ultra rare/epic
thats complete BS
Okay, thanks...
Not sure if I am gonna bother crafting... the original crafting system was kinda of turn off for me.. I might make trying the new crafting system a 2015 New Year Resolution...
My character Tsin'xing
The time and required to create 1 Tech Upgrade kit.
To make an "Enchanced Tech Upgrade Kit" also requires Resources/Materials and time. And this is only to go from Mark to Mark, it doesn't add the cost to go from Rarity to Rarity.
So yes, you conceivably "could" farm for all the Materials required, then craft the components required to create the Upgrade Kits, then create the Upgrade Kits, then apply them to the item ... but I don't think many players will want to wait 3 months to get 1 item up to level XIV.
But wait, there's more ... The C-Store is disabled on Tribble, but what's the bet that in there we will see a mysterious new item/items for sale?
One that will drastically reduce the time required and maybe also an item that will drastically increase the chance of a Rarity upgrade?
For only a few Z you can haz that shiny new Gold XIV item ... just open yer wallet ... Can you say "Coalescent Ward"?