Borticuscryptic, I believe the proc was the other way around. The Tier IV Romulus placate applied when you critically hit an enemy target. This new proc also applies a placate on hit like the New Romulus trait
Exactly why I said before that devs sometimes get forgetful about the past when coming up with new stuff that breaks the game the exact same way.
There is no such thing as Accuracy in Ground combat, and this proc will exist in both regions.
What about making the effect a confuse rather than a placate? This would greatly reduce the annoyance of constantly forcing the player to retarget every 15 seconds. A placate proc will once again render sensor analysis worthless in space PvP.
disregard damage since its taken in space. (its not that interesting since damage scales with gear/skills anyway)
Do you have those pics on a ground map? In space values get inflated and thus it is hard to get any accurate impression.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
If the devs want that placate so badly. Why not just make it effect npc's only, not players?
Frankly, I don't get why placate is necessary in space. There is so much shield penetration, complete enemy disabling (even Borg), crowd control (massive GW and grav torpedo spread), and other stuff that you don't really need placate to deal with NPCs.
I don't see how increasing one's relying on an allied healer cast a cleanse heal on you doesn't count in lucho's teamwork complaint...
Not to mention if you don't have a cleanse/heal on hand within 10 seconds at any given time in the current pvp meta, you've got bigger problems than a placate.
I don't want to lose a cool new feature because some spreadsheet warriors don't want to modify the build that's been working for them for the last 8 months. You invested millions in a meta that's supposed to be a dynamic arms race. That is only your problem.
if the target is placated and with feedback pulse enabled, then i shoot him, the feedback pulse will won't return the damage to me? If that is the case, i'm in with the placates lol
Frankly, I don't get why placate is necessary in space. There is so much shield penetration, complete enemy disabling (even Borg), crowd control (massive GW and grav torpedo spread), and other stuff that you don't really need placate to deal with NPCs.
Similarly, there's enough DPS that you don't need Drains in space. Or enough Drains that you don't need -Repel crowd control. Or enough -Repel crowd control that you don't need Disables. Etc.
More options is good, and this version of a Placate is far better thought out than the old Romulan Rep power, thanks to the ability to resist via Starship Sensors and a Placate immunity follow-up. So long as we don't end up back at the point of constant Placate procs or Placate lockdowns, I can live with an occasional loss of target lock. As long as it really is occasional... for which I thank you for the mechanics clarification, borticuscryptic, though...
You're both right, I had misremembered. It sounds as though I was thinking about the Honor Guard proc. My bad!
Anyway, the mechanics are still different. I've pulled up the archived data on the old T4 Rom Placate for comparison:
Sensor Targeting Assault:
* 20% chance to proc on Critical Hit Out
* Duration 2 sec (non-resistable)
* No immunity period for the target
* Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user
Thoron Radiation:
* 2.5% chance to proc, first shot of a volley
* Duration 5 sec (resistable)
* Target gains 15 sec immunity immediately when Placate is applied (no proc stacking)
* Can trigger once per second for the user (max)
So, similar in some regards, but a significant departure in others.
Before the arguments here get too out-of-hand, I'd love to hear any first-hand experience players may've had while testing out these weapons. I realize it's difficult to obtain them for the time being, but we still have many weeks before Delta Rising launches in which to gather feedback from players that've actually used the weapons in both PvE and PvP.
...could you clarify:
1) If this can be purged by a quick Science Team like most other Science debuffs?
2) Does the immunity grant full Placate protection or just immunity to this proc?
Also, the old Romulan Rep proc didn't have the "Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user" limitation (you could lose target lock a LOT back then); that has only recently been added to many of the Rep procs. Honeslty, the replacement Romulan Rep power is nigh upon useless thanks to the combination of both being converted to a Weapons Disable and that "Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user" limitation, but compared to having to constantly re-acquire like we used to (since everyone ran Sensor Targeting Assault)... I can live with that.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
sorry, can't would need ancient power cells for that (elite rep drop) and since the elite mission is scaled to lvl 60 for levl 60 gear there is no way to get some currently.
Probably will be detailed in a news post anyway.
Open more hourly boxes. There's a small chance to get an ancient power cell just like there's a small chance to get BNP, Voth Cyberthingies, and Undine Injectomators. I got one yesterday but then ran out of marks.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Disruptor for KDF, phaser for Fed, where are the plasma for rom ? Once again, Romulan are being forgotten, just like they were with the undine rep. And this time you can't say you want to avoid stacking the rom rep and undine rep set bonuses, since it's ground, and there are no plasma related ground set.
How long does it take to make a 3rd weapon with plasma instead of disruptor/phaser ?
As for everything else, I join the crowd. DoT is OP (but it's a bug, I get it) and placate seems OP.
Ancient Power Cells should be rewarded by Advanced Queues, not just Elite.
Well, are there any special conditions for them to be rewarded? Played Advanced couple of times, and got none.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Disruptor for KDF, phaser for Fed, where are the plasma for rom ? Once again, Romulan are being forgotten, just like they were with the undine rep. And this time you can't say you want to avoid stacking the rom rep and undine rep set bonuses, since it's ground, and there are no plasma related ground set.
I kindly ask for some feedback on that.
Romulans didn't even get their own Duty Officer for the CC event or the Academy event. I would just like to hear the reasoning for leaving them out when it comes to seemingly simple stuff like Doffs and another energy weapon type.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
( aimed at the devs ) if this has been answered all ready sorry, is just ques that reward delta marks? Is there another option? Dont need details just a yes or no will suffice thank you
Disruptor for KDF, phaser for Fed, where are the plasma for rom ? Once again, Romulan are being forgotten, just like they were with the undine rep. And this time you can't say you want to avoid stacking the rom rep and undine rep set bonuses, since it's ground, and there are no plasma related ground set.
How long does it take to make a 3rd weapon with plasma instead of disruptor/phaser ?
I think you fell for a red herring. It was already possible to stack 2 disruptor set bonuses in space even when the 8472 rep first came out (8472 + silent enemy).
We did get the particle emission plasma torpedo though. Huge thank you to whoever made that - it's the only reason I even bother with crafting.
Borticus, you do realize you're compounding yet again the aux2bat+techicians problem with that tanking and boff ability cooldown reduction deflector.
Please, please, fix aux2bat before you release that thing.
Sort of... these are likely part of a progressive fix for Aux2Batt w/Technicians, since everything has a global cooldown. The more reliable (i.e. not reliant on RNG) alternatives we have for improving cooldowns, the less valuable that combo becomes, especially since Aux2Batt without Technicians is kind of bad... and adding more cooldown reduction to powers at global accomplishes nothing. Take the Phantom and Eclipse, then consider the methods that exist for optimizing that combination of Starship Traits... you could end up with a ship that's incredibly difficult to hit and as a result maintains all of its Tac/Intel powers at global, doesn't suffer from Aux loss, and gets room for three more doffs. Maybe slot EP2E w/Emergency Conn Hologram, APO, and PH to ensure that ain't nothing gonna break my stride and... wheeeee!!!
[EDIT] Also, wasn't the cooldown reduction on the Bio-neural Gel Pack console?
[EDIT] As a side note that Def for cooldowns concept is only possible on a Federation captain, unless the lockbox includes cross-faction Starship Trait unlocks.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
i think thats backwards, thats what the KHG shield did. point is it does not mater if its triggered by offense or defense, especially if 2 people are shooting at each other, its still the most awful thing to come up against in pvp, and has a useless, invisible effect in pve. that being a case, its a wonder why you keep pushing it on the game.
You're both right, I had misremembered. It sounds as though I was thinking about the Honor Guard proc. My bad!
Anyway, the mechanics are still different. I've pulled up the archived data on the old T4 Rom Placate for comparison:
Sensor Targeting Assault:
* 20% chance to proc on Critical Hit Out
* Duration 2 sec (non-resistable)
* No immunity period for the target
* Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user
Thoron Radiation:
* 2.5% chance to proc, first shot of a volley
* Duration 5 sec (resistable)
* Target gains 15 sec immunity immediately when Placate is applied (no proc stacking)
* Can trigger once per second for the user (max)
So, similar in some regards, but a significant departure in others.
Before the arguments here get too out-of-hand, I'd love to hear any first-hand experience players may've had while testing out these weapons. I realize it's difficult to obtain them for the time being, but we still have many weeks before Delta Rising launches in which to gather feedback from players that've actually used the weapons in both PvE and PvP.
still sounds basically as awful. just increase the DOT, after its fixed, and the crit debuff, but don't undo all that good that came from the placate trait removal.
FYI to Bort. The fact that the proc is resistible is not equal to immune, in other words, it will still break target lock which brings back the annoyances of the T4 Romulan placate, including making Sensor Analysis worthless again.
We don't need placates in space combat.
As for the fix aux2 bat thing what I mean is do any of the numerous suggestions that have popped out in threads like:
1) Don't let the technician doff reduce aux2bat's own CD.
2) Limit it to engineering abilities
3) Lock down the Aux power level to 5 (could be buffed by leech or siphon or EPtA)
Etc.....
As for the fix aux2 bat thing what I mean is do any of the numerous suggestions that have popped out in threads like:
1) Don't let the technician doff reduce aux2bat's own CD.
2) Limit it to engineering abilities
3) Lock down the Aux power level to 5 (could be buffed by leech or siphon or EPtA)
Etc.....
there's no reason for any of that though. you make it worse, but for what purpose?
its to good in pve?
no, the best max deeps builds dont use it. its a bit of an easy mode, but so what?
its to good in pvp?
no, pvp is ruled by sci ships and healers, that can exclude needing weapons energy at all, and are easier to minmax and thus stronger. the tactical ships that run AtB are stretched more thin, and the escorts that don't need it can run high aux AtD and fly circles around them
its not to good anywhere. in fact the cruisers and escorts that rely on it to compete would be garbage without it. its balanced NOW, not without it.
Comments
Exactly why I said before that devs sometimes get forgetful about the past when coming up with new stuff that breaks the game the exact same way.
Then how about a perception debuff?
What about making the effect a confuse rather than a placate? This would greatly reduce the annoyance of constantly forcing the player to retarget every 15 seconds. A placate proc will once again render sensor analysis worthless in space PvP.
That too would be a great idea.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
So basically this comes to: "We can't remove it because we want it to look the same in space and ground."
Would it really matter if they look different? Most weapons act different in space vs ground anyway.
Do you have those pics on a ground map? In space values get inflated and thus it is hard to get any accurate impression.
What about a debuff to crit rate and severity?
Frankly, I don't get why placate is necessary in space. There is so much shield penetration, complete enemy disabling (even Borg), crowd control (massive GW and grav torpedo spread), and other stuff that you don't really need placate to deal with NPCs.
Not to mention if you don't have a cleanse/heal on hand within 10 seconds at any given time in the current pvp meta, you've got bigger problems than a placate.
I don't want to lose a cool new feature because some spreadsheet warriors don't want to modify the build that's been working for them for the last 8 months. You invested millions in a meta that's supposed to be a dynamic arms race. That is only your problem.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Similarly, there's enough DPS that you don't need Drains in space. Or enough Drains that you don't need -Repel crowd control. Or enough -Repel crowd control that you don't need Disables. Etc.
More options is good, and this version of a Placate is far better thought out than the old Romulan Rep power, thanks to the ability to resist via Starship Sensors and a Placate immunity follow-up. So long as we don't end up back at the point of constant Placate procs or Placate lockdowns, I can live with an occasional loss of target lock. As long as it really is occasional... for which I thank you for the mechanics clarification, borticuscryptic, though...
...could you clarify:
1) If this can be purged by a quick Science Team like most other Science debuffs?
2) Does the immunity grant full Placate protection or just immunity to this proc?
Also, the old Romulan Rep proc didn't have the "Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user" limitation (you could lose target lock a LOT back then); that has only recently been added to many of the Rep procs. Honeslty, the replacement Romulan Rep power is nigh upon useless thanks to the combination of both being converted to a Weapons Disable and that "Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user" limitation, but compared to having to constantly re-acquire like we used to (since everyone ran Sensor Targeting Assault)... I can live with that.
Open more hourly boxes. There's a small chance to get an ancient power cell just like there's a small chance to get BNP, Voth Cyberthingies, and Undine Injectomators. I got one yesterday but then ran out of marks.
Joined January 2009
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
How long does it take to make a 3rd weapon with plasma instead of disruptor/phaser ?
As for everything else, I join the crowd. DoT is OP (but it's a bug, I get it) and placate seems OP.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
I kindly ask for some feedback on that.
Romulans didn't even get their own Duty Officer for the CC event or the Academy event. I would just like to hear the reasoning for leaving them out when it comes to seemingly simple stuff like Doffs and another energy weapon type.
Hence the "should be" part of that statement.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Gee, if only there were some cool, unique plasma weapons in STO... :P
Joined January 2009
I think you fell for a red herring. It was already possible to stack 2 disruptor set bonuses in space even when the 8472 rep first came out (8472 + silent enemy).
We did get the particle emission plasma torpedo though. Huge thank you to whoever made that - it's the only reason I even bother with crafting.
There will very likely be additional options.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Please, please, fix aux2bat before you release that thing.
Sort of... these are likely part of a progressive fix for Aux2Batt w/Technicians, since everything has a global cooldown. The more reliable (i.e. not reliant on RNG) alternatives we have for improving cooldowns, the less valuable that combo becomes, especially since Aux2Batt without Technicians is kind of bad... and adding more cooldown reduction to powers at global accomplishes nothing. Take the Phantom and Eclipse, then consider the methods that exist for optimizing that combination of Starship Traits... you could end up with a ship that's incredibly difficult to hit and as a result maintains all of its Tac/Intel powers at global, doesn't suffer from Aux loss, and gets room for three more doffs. Maybe slot EP2E w/Emergency Conn Hologram, APO, and PH to ensure that ain't nothing gonna break my stride and... wheeeee!!!
[EDIT] Also, wasn't the cooldown reduction on the Bio-neural Gel Pack console?
[EDIT] As a side note that Def for cooldowns concept is only possible on a Federation captain, unless the lockbox includes cross-faction Starship Trait unlocks.
there's that fix AtB thing again, i really wish someone would actually coherently say whats wrong with it.
i think thats backwards, thats what the KHG shield did. point is it does not mater if its triggered by offense or defense, especially if 2 people are shooting at each other, its still the most awful thing to come up against in pvp, and has a useless, invisible effect in pve. that being a case, its a wonder why you keep pushing it on the game.
still sounds basically as awful. just increase the DOT, after its fixed, and the crit debuff, but don't undo all that good that came from the placate trait removal.
"Thoron Infused" should have a hyphen. :P Like "Thoron-Infused."
I know, not technically a bug... but English is our friend.
We don't need placates in space combat.
As for the fix aux2 bat thing what I mean is do any of the numerous suggestions that have popped out in threads like:
1) Don't let the technician doff reduce aux2bat's own CD.
2) Limit it to engineering abilities
3) Lock down the Aux power level to 5 (could be buffed by leech or siphon or EPtA)
Etc.....
there's no reason for any of that though. you make it worse, but for what purpose?
its to good in pve?
no, the best max deeps builds dont use it. its a bit of an easy mode, but so what?
its to good in pvp?
no, pvp is ruled by sci ships and healers, that can exclude needing weapons energy at all, and are easier to minmax and thus stronger. the tactical ships that run AtB are stretched more thin, and the escorts that don't need it can run high aux AtD and fly circles around them
its not to good anywhere. in fact the cruisers and escorts that rely on it to compete would be garbage without it. its balanced NOW, not without it.