G'morning folks. Just a few quick bits of feedback. We're listening, and are still in the process of tuning a lot of this.
1) The radiation DOT numbers you're seeing are incorrect. This is supposed to be less-damaging than Plasma.
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
3) We'll look into the energy drain on the Neutronic Torpedo.
4) Testing packs and a Test Vendor will probably appear later, but this initial roll-out of the system is intended to have no leg-up in this regard. Just playing the queues for marks, and putting them into the system manually.
Thanks, as always, for taking the time to give us feedback. It's appreciated.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Hello Borticus.
I have a few questions: what about the new Tier 5 active trait. Is it for ground correct? If it is, dont you think that with the new Tr-B gun that ignore shields that trait is going to be too much OP on the hand of a buffed tact? TR-B is making engi class useless on ground PVP now imagine with this trait! And even worst, with the 15% armor ignore trait.
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
That's not how I remember the old proc, which was (IIRC) 25% chance to placate the target when you land a crit with a weapon attack. It's the KHG/Adapted MACO shield that has a retributive placate proc.
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
Thanks, as always, for taking the time to give us feedback. It's appreciated.
Ok, imagine this, a 5 vs 5 PvP match cruiser FAW fest with every boat with these weapons. It would quickly get ridiculous. On top of that, it once again screws with science by making sensor analysis less effective. If you won't remove the placate, at least increase the lockout on another placate to 25-30 seconds.
BTW, there is no real need to have placates in PvE play.
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
hey bort, thx for hopping .
of course it's kind of the opposite. when u fire at me with those weapons, that proc makes it harder for me to defend against u, while before it has been harder for u to attack me while i got the rom-placate.
but if i now run the same weapon-type we end up just the same way as if we both were running t4 rom placates. one turret should be enough?
in the end it comes down to reimplying an abillity just from the other end, when it already has been clear that the whole ability is "not so good"(<- put politely;):D).
just 2 worthless ct's
edit:
the only problem with the rom-placate has been the placate itself lol!
BTW, there is no real need to have placates in PvE play.
I disagree with this one. I think for Borg: Disconnected and the Mirror Invasion Events, this placate proc could be EXTREMELY useful - if you can FAW-spam a bunch of placate procs on the attacking Probes/Spheres/Bioships/Terran Ships and use those few seconds of peace in order to disconnect the ships.
of course it's kind of the opposite. when u fire at me with those weapons, that proc makes it harder for me to defend against u, while before it has been harder for u to attack me while i got the rom-placate.
but if i now run the same weapon-type we end up just the same way as if we both were running t4 rom placates. one turret should be enough?
in the end it comes down to reimplying an abillity just from the other end, when it already has been clear that the whole ability is "not so good"(<- put politely;):D).
just 2 worthless ct's
edit:
the only problem with the rom-placate has been the placate itself lol!
And that last sentence nailed it. If you NEED to go invisible for a bit and don;t have a battlecloak, try mask energy signature or the T5 rom ability. You could jam or scramble sensors to mess with NPCs. Basically carry someone with sci skills around instead of relying on pure DPS and proc gimmicks.
I disagree with this one. I think for Borg: Disconnected and the Mirror Invasion Events, this placate proc could be EXTREMELY useful - if you can FAW-spam a bunch of placate procs on the attacking Probes/Spheres/Bioships/Terran Ships and use those few seconds of peace in order to disconnect the ships.
At the very least, I'm going to try such a build.
i think he more reffered to the difficulty-level of pve in whole . as for me, i can't spot the need for such in the missions u mentioned as well. there's really no need for any placates out there.
That's not how I remember the old proc, which was (IIRC) 25% chance to placate the target when you land a crit with a weapon attack. It's the KHG/Adapted MACO shield that has a retributive placate proc.
That's how I remember it too. It was sensor targeting assault. It was a passive that let one placate on critical hits they put out. Not the other way around.
I thought back then it should have been an activated power with a cool down time. People just built their ships around CrtH and because there's a weird bug with immunity period one could placate another player almost 100% of the time.
We'll have to see how it goes but from the looks of it, the new weapons seem similar.
Can someone show the info on the Isokinetic cannon?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I disagree with this one. I think for Borg: Disconnected and the Mirror Invasion Events, this placate proc could be EXTREMELY useful - if you can FAW-spam a bunch of placate procs on the attacking Probes/Spheres/Bioships/Terran Ships and use those few seconds of peace in order to disconnect the ships.
At the very least, I'm going to try such a build.
See, here is the Kirk mentality at work. "I'm going to one man the whole thing with this awesome OP proc I got". You don't need the proc, what you need is better teamwork, or at least a better build.
That's how I remember it too. It was sensor targeting assault
You're both right, I had misremembered. It sounds as though I was thinking about the Honor Guard proc. My bad!
Anyway, the mechanics are still different. I've pulled up the archived data on the old T4 Rom Placate for comparison:
Sensor Targeting Assault:
* 20% chance to proc on Critical Hit Out
* Duration 2 sec (non-resistable)
* No immunity period for the target
* Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user
Thoron Radiation:
* 2.5% chance to proc, first shot of a volley
* Duration 5 sec (resistable)
* Target gains 15 sec immunity immediately when Placate is applied (no proc stacking)
* Can trigger once per second for the user (max)
So, similar in some regards, but a significant departure in others.
Before the arguments here get too out-of-hand, I'd love to hear any first-hand experience players may've had while testing out these weapons. I realize it's difficult to obtain them for the time being, but we still have many weeks before Delta Rising launches in which to gather feedback from players that've actually used the weapons in both PvE and PvP.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
You're both right, I had misremembered. It sounds as though I was thinking about the Honor Guard proc. My bad!
Anyway, the mechanics are still different. I've pulled up the archived data on the old T4 Rom Placate for comparison:
Sensor Targeting Assault:
* 20% chance to proc on Critical Hit Out
* Duration 2 sec (non-resistable)
* No immunity period for the target
* Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user
Thoron Radiation:
* 2.5% chance to proc, first shot of a volley
* Duration 5 sec (resistable)
* Target gains 15 sec immunity immediately when Placate is applied (no proc stacking)
* Can trigger once per second for the user (max)
So, similar in some regards, but a significant departure in others.
Before the arguments here get too out-of-hand, I'd love to hear any first-hand experience players may've had while testing out these weapons. I realize it's difficult to obtain them for the time being, but we still have many weeks before Delta Rising launches in which to gather feedback from players that've actually used the weapons in both PvE and PvP.
I'm still not a fan of passive placate BUT that does sound way better.
I realize it's difficult to obtain them for the time being, but we still have many weeks before Delta Rising launches in which to gather feedback from players that've actually used the weapons in both PvE and PvP.
. may u can get smirk to organize something like a tribble kerr'rat event (to avoid waiting times for pvp q's on tribble lol)?
just time it right with something like full rep tokens and mark packs for the delta-rep, so everyone can get their weaps and sets on tribble in time.
that indeed would be awesome in regards of testing it for pvp i guess (besides the danger everyone and their mothers will run those weaps. hardcore i guess ).
See, here is the Kirk mentality at work. "I'm going to one man the whole thing with this awesome OP proc I got". You don't need the proc, what you need is better teamwork, or at least a better build.
I resent the ad hominem.
Do I need the proc? No, my build can handle the current normal and . Do I want to try a new way to do something fun in PvE (save Borg) that I haven't tried before? Yes. Massive amounts of DPS is boring. I want to do something sneaky for a change, and I think a placate build using these thoron-infused weapons could be a good change of pace.
. may u can get smirk to organize something like a tribble kerr'rat event (to avoid waiting times for pvp q's on tribble lol)?
just time it right with something like full rep tokens and mark packs for the delta-rep, so everyone can get their weaps and sets on tribble in time.
that indeed would be awesome in regards of testing it for pvp i guess (besides the danger everyone and their mothers will run those weaps. hardcore i guess ).
That may be possible. We'll look into it.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
The new placate is problematic in the same way, but for the victim, and not the attacker. After all, the victim needs to fight back to defend itself.
Old: Attacker hits Victim, Victim placates and hits back, Attacker's attack is halted.
New: Attacker hits Victim and placates, Victim can not hit back.
If anything, this is even MORE problematic than former Romulan T4.
You're shifting the advantage to Offense instead of Defense.
Offense is ALREADY BETTER than Defense in most things in this game.
thx! very appreciated . in the best case it may take out a lot of concerns about things to come, or leads to tone/change them in a proper way to fit the environment.
sorry, can't would need ancient power cells for that (elite rep drop) and since the elite mission is scaled to lvl 60 for levl 60 gear there is no way to get some currently.
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
Borticuscryptic, I believe the proc was the other way around. The Tier IV Romulus placate applied when you critically hit an enemy target. This new proc also applies a placate on hit like the New Romulus trait. The only difference is the proc chance is now independent of critical chance. The only placate on getting hit comes from the Adapted MACO/Klingon Honor Guard Covariant Shield Array.
Either way, placates on weapon attacks greatly impedes the ability for players to have an enjoyable PvP match. Anyone fighting against a player using this trait must constantly retarget because of the constant placates. A placate is extremely powerful in PvP due to the fact that it reduces player DPS to 0 for the duration of the placate + 3 seconds for the player to reacquire them as a target.
Ultimately we have reached a point where you are tying far too many positive effects and debuffs to simply firing weapons. We have plasmonic leech to boost power, structural integrity leech to repair the ship, shield absorptive frequency generator to heal shields (at an overpowered level), and once again a weapon proc that disables their target's ability to fight back. I understand the desire to add beneficial effects to outgoing attacks, but it is getting a bit out of hand. A placate is too severe of a debuff for simple weapon attacks.
Comments
1) The radiation DOT numbers you're seeing are incorrect. This is supposed to be less-damaging than Plasma.
2) The primary reason the old Romulan T4 proc was so problematic was that it was a defensive/responsive Placate: You hit me, I placate you. This made dealing damage to a target extremely problematic, regardless of their actions. This Placate proc is outgoing: I hit you, I placate you. This changes the scenario considerably.
3) We'll look into the energy drain on the Neutronic Torpedo.
4) Testing packs and a Test Vendor will probably appear later, but this initial roll-out of the system is intended to have no leg-up in this regard. Just playing the queues for marks, and putting them into the system manually.
Thanks, as always, for taking the time to give us feedback. It's appreciated.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I have a few questions: what about the new Tier 5 active trait. Is it for ground correct? If it is, dont you think that with the new Tr-B gun that ignore shields that trait is going to be too much OP on the hand of a buffed tact? TR-B is making engi class useless on ground PVP now imagine with this trait! And even worst, with the 15% armor ignore trait.
Also, what "removes up to 100 effects" means?
Thanks.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
That's not how I remember the old proc, which was (IIRC) 25% chance to placate the target when you land a crit with a weapon attack. It's the KHG/Adapted MACO shield that has a retributive placate proc.
Ok, imagine this, a 5 vs 5 PvP match cruiser FAW fest with every boat with these weapons. It would quickly get ridiculous. On top of that, it once again screws with science by making sensor analysis less effective. If you won't remove the placate, at least increase the lockout on another placate to 25-30 seconds.
BTW, there is no real need to have placates in PvE play.
hey bort, thx for hopping
of course it's kind of the opposite. when u fire at me with those weapons, that proc makes it harder for me to defend against u, while before it has been harder for u to attack me while i got the rom-placate.
but if i now run the same weapon-type we end up just the same way as if we both were running t4 rom placates. one turret should be enough?
in the end it comes down to reimplying an abillity just from the other end, when it already has been clear that the whole ability is "not so good"(<- put politely;):D).
just 2 worthless ct's
edit:
the only problem with the rom-placate has been the placate itself lol!
I disagree with this one. I think for Borg: Disconnected and the Mirror Invasion Events, this placate proc could be EXTREMELY useful - if you can FAW-spam a bunch of placate procs on the attacking Probes/Spheres/Bioships/Terran Ships and use those few seconds of peace in order to disconnect the ships.
At the very least, I'm going to try such a build.
And that last sentence nailed it. If you NEED to go invisible for a bit and don;t have a battlecloak, try mask energy signature or the T5 rom ability. You could jam or scramble sensors to mess with NPCs. Basically carry someone with sci skills around instead of relying on pure DPS and proc gimmicks.
i think he more reffered to the difficulty-level of pve in whole
What i think it's exactly what wastee and lucho said, and what beammedown said here
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=19148321&postcount=48
There is just no need to have a placate at all imho.
That's how I remember it too. It was sensor targeting assault. It was a passive that let one placate on critical hits they put out. Not the other way around.
I thought back then it should have been an activated power with a cool down time. People just built their ships around CrtH and because there's a weird bug with immunity period one could placate another player almost 100% of the time.
We'll have to see how it goes but from the looks of it, the new weapons seem similar.
I don't think anyone knows yet because people still need to grind through the rep to get all the parts.
See, here is the Kirk mentality at work. "I'm going to one man the whole thing with this awesome OP proc I got". You don't need the proc, what you need is better teamwork, or at least a better build.
You're both right, I had misremembered. It sounds as though I was thinking about the Honor Guard proc. My bad!
Anyway, the mechanics are still different. I've pulled up the archived data on the old T4 Rom Placate for comparison:
Sensor Targeting Assault:
* 20% chance to proc on Critical Hit Out
* Duration 2 sec (non-resistable)
* No immunity period for the target
* Could not trigger more than once per 20 seconds for the user
Thoron Radiation:
* 2.5% chance to proc, first shot of a volley
* Duration 5 sec (resistable)
* Target gains 15 sec immunity immediately when Placate is applied (no proc stacking)
* Can trigger once per second for the user (max)
So, similar in some regards, but a significant departure in others.
Before the arguments here get too out-of-hand, I'd love to hear any first-hand experience players may've had while testing out these weapons. I realize it's difficult to obtain them for the time being, but we still have many weeks before Delta Rising launches in which to gather feedback from players that've actually used the weapons in both PvE and PvP.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I'm still not a fan of passive placate BUT that does sound way better.
just time it right with something like full rep tokens and mark packs for the delta-rep, so everyone can get their weaps and sets on tribble in time.
that indeed would be awesome in regards of testing it for pvp i guess (besides the danger everyone and their mothers will run those weaps. hardcore i guess
I resent the ad hominem.
Do I need the proc? No, my build can handle the current normal and . Do I want to try a new way to do something fun in PvE (save Borg) that I haven't tried before? Yes. Massive amounts of DPS is boring. I want to do something sneaky for a change, and I think a placate build using these thoron-infused weapons could be a good change of pace.
You'd probally have more luck of them making decent KDF ships than a livestream of an ever dead part of sto lol.
That may be possible. We'll look into it.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
The new placate is problematic in the same way, but for the victim, and not the attacker. After all, the victim needs to fight back to defend itself.
Old: Attacker hits Victim, Victim placates and hits back, Attacker's attack is halted.
New: Attacker hits Victim and placates, Victim can not hit back.
If anything, this is even MORE problematic than former Romulan T4.
You're shifting the advantage to Offense instead of Defense.
Offense is ALREADY BETTER than Defense in most things in this game.
Remove the placate, please.
STO Screenshot Archive
thx! very appreciated
disregard damage since its taken in space. (its not that interesting since damage scales with gear/skills anyway)
There is no such thing as Accuracy in Ground combat, and this proc will exist in both regions.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Ah. Didn't think about that. Hmm.
can you post the bonuses of both space sets?
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
sorry, can't would need ancient power cells for that (elite rep drop) and since the elite mission is scaled to lvl 60 for levl 60 gear there is no way to get some currently.
Probably will be detailed in a news post anyway.
Borticuscryptic, I believe the proc was the other way around. The Tier IV Romulus placate applied when you critically hit an enemy target. This new proc also applies a placate on hit like the New Romulus trait. The only difference is the proc chance is now independent of critical chance. The only placate on getting hit comes from the Adapted MACO/Klingon Honor Guard Covariant Shield Array.
Either way, placates on weapon attacks greatly impedes the ability for players to have an enjoyable PvP match. Anyone fighting against a player using this trait must constantly retarget because of the constant placates. A placate is extremely powerful in PvP due to the fact that it reduces player DPS to 0 for the duration of the placate + 3 seconds for the player to reacquire them as a target.
Ultimately we have reached a point where you are tying far too many positive effects and debuffs to simply firing weapons. We have plasmonic leech to boost power, structural integrity leech to repair the ship, shield absorptive frequency generator to heal shields (at an overpowered level), and once again a weapon proc that disables their target's ability to fight back. I understand the desire to add beneficial effects to outgoing attacks, but it is getting a bit out of hand. A placate is too severe of a debuff for simple weapon attacks.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)