We are the Borg. We bring you perfection and low fat cookies. Resistance is futile.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
But the Borg were first hinted at in season 1 of TNG and the Iconian computer virus was introduced 11 episodes after the first Borg hint
The Borg were originally going to be the parasites from the episode "Conspiracy"
I don't remember exactly why they decided to change them to Cyborgs.
Also, in the Voyager Episode "Dragon's Teeth" one of the Vaadwaur says they knew about the borg at least 900 years ago, they had only assimilated "A hand full of systems"
(That's what the Queen's line about "four dimensional thinking" implies, that she either moves around time or survives by copying over to her alternate timeline counterparts.)
I've always taken that line to mean that the queen, like much everything else about the borg is a distributed entity existing completely within the hive mind itself, perhaps as an emergent consciousness rather than "belonging" to a particular assimilated being. If you've ever seen those pictures where someone's face is made up of many smaller photograps, something like that. Likewise, the physical queens are simply shells the queen consciousness co-opts for the convenience of interacting directly with the physical world, but they are no more essential to her existence than say a remote control car would be for us. So in that sense, four-dimensional mainly refers to transcending the 3-dimensions of space, since it's fallacious to say she definitively exists anywhere at any given time. And by Seven's admission the memories of deactivated borg drones persist within the collective, so it's possible that because of this archive the queen is capable of existing at all points in time of her life, past and present simultaneously.
The Borg were originally going to be the parasites from the episode "Conspiracy"
I don't remember exactly why they decided to change them to Cyborgs.
Also, in the Voyager Episode "Dragon's Teeth" one of the Vaadwaur says they knew about the borg at least 900 years ago, they had only assimilated "A hand full of systems"
I wouldn't give that too much weight.
1: we know the Vaadwaur lied to the crew about at least a few things....
2: we have no reason to believe the Vaadwaur had charted the extent of Borg space. It's possible that the "handful of systems" mentioned were just the systems in the former Vaadwaur Empire.
Thus I see no reason to take that comment at face value.
1: we know the Vaadwaur lied to the crew about at least a few things....
2: we have no reason to believe the Vaadwaur had charted the extent of Borg space. It's possible that the "handful of systems" mentioned were just the systems in the former Vaadwaur Empire.
Thus I see no reason to take that comment at face value.
No but there's a pretty big difference between "not taking someone at face value" and actively disbelieving them. Basically until some other information comes along what the Vaadwaur say is an acceptable working model of early borg expansion. It may not be totally reliable, but its better than absolutely nothing.
Besides, there is also:
3. the borg had to start somewhere at some point. Given their incredible and persistent rate of expansion 900 years is a pretty fair guess at least to the borg's "early days".
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Hey, is there any possibility that we might one day encounter Mirror Universe Borg in STO?
While we may never meet the Mirror Borg in game, the LC crowd in Ten Forward have already written a few stories about the Mirror Borg here. Peruse and enjoy!
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
But the actions of or perhaps the lack of existance/ survival of a Mirror Janeway and or Voyager may well result in a drastically diffrerent turn of events for the Collective
That loss of Infrastructure caused by Voyager may well have been a catalyst for further losses, one which may not have happened in the Mirror Universe.
Perhaps, instead of being a pushover like our current STO Borg, the Mirror Borg are stronger than ever before constituting a far greater threat
Then think about Mirror versions of the Vega Colony, did the Mirror Player Character react the same way?
What about Defera? The Terren Empire probably didn;t cooperate with the Alliance, and so perhaps the borg have a far more secure Foothold there.
Without Starfleets help did the Kang get the cure out? Was Donatra Defeated in the Mirror Universe? Was Manus of Borg successful in assimilating the Starbase fully?
So many variables......
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
As the Borg were created by a freak accident caused by early Starfleet, I doubt it
Considering there are multiple parallel universes out there (TNG: Parallels), it's highly likely that this accident (that may, or may not have created the Borg anyway) would have happened elsewhere too, only slightly differently.
Considering there are multiple parallel universes out there (TNG: Parallels), it's highly likely that this accident (that may, or may not have created the Borg anyway) would have happened elsewhere too, only slightly differently.
A bit like the Replicaters from Stargate or "Smatter" from "The Culture" universe. A basic concept that can repeat itself in different forms.
The series "Dollhouse" presented one take on how a "Hive Mind" could form (of course it was dependent on tech specific to the Dollhouse setting).
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
also doesnt the v'ger ship look alot like a unimatrix?
I never really thought a connection between V'ger and the borg made much sense.
For one V'ger produces information by deconstructing its surroundings and analyzing how that fits together within a universal viewpoint. The Borg only consume information through the assimilation of other species, incorporating what others have learned/done but without going much further than that. They each seak perfection but while V'ger was ultimately able to find that by joining with ONE other individual (because of what it was able to learn for itself) the borg must consume civlization after civilizatoin because even with its technology and resources the collective cannot act independently (so any advance must be made by taking it from some other group).
Broadly, they both involve machinery, but the similarities end almost at that.
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What if the Borg were french, would their opening be something like this: Nous somme Le Borg. nous nous rendons. Refus est impossible.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Yeah, but in TNG all French guys sound like Patrick Stewart, AKA very very British.
Well, we don't know what happened in World War 3....
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Well, we don't know what happened in World War 3....
I guess the fictional version of my Future Government really wanted Calais Back
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
I'm not one to generally leave a post at this, but LMAO.:D
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As the Borg were created by a freak accident caused by early Starfleet, I doubt it
The Borg predate starfleet. Heck the Vaadwaur had already encountered them before they went into hibernation before Columbus accidentally ran into some islands near the American continents.
The Borg predate starfleet. Heck the Vaadwaur had already encountered them before they went into hibernation before Columbus accidentally ran into some islands near the American continents.
well, I could defend my argument if I was allowed to use the time-card
The Mirror Universe is not the opposite universe, generally speaking.
Actually, it is. The original concept of the Mirror Universe story was a kind of "anti" universe where the good is evil and evil is good. Where the Federation is an iron-fisted Empire ruling it's various vassal planets. Hence the name of the TOS episode that introduced it, "Mirror, Mirror". It was our own universe in mirror image. Therefore there would be Borg and those Borg would, logically, be a true cooperative collective devoid of any use of forced assimilation. As the Borg in the canon Trekverse are the living embodiment of every technophobes worst nightmares the Mirror Borg would be just the opposite. A technocrats dream come true. A race willingly enhanced in such a way that they are connected collectively but with full acknowledgement of and respect for the individual personality of each member. They would grow by inviting others to join with no coercion involved. Somewhat like Nestor in "Battle Beyond The Planets" or the race that Lazarus Long encountered in Heinlein's "Methuselah's Children", except their collective consciousness would be technologically enhanced rather than the result of genetics or advanced evolution. :P
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
The Borg were originally going to be the parasites from the episode "Conspiracy"
I don't remember exactly why they decided to change them to Cyborgs.
Also, in the Voyager Episode "Dragon's Teeth" one of the Vaadwaur says they knew about the borg at least 900 years ago, they had only assimilated "A hand full of systems"
See... I subscribe to the theory that for the first 100k years, the Borg existed but did not necessarily assimilate outside of their species.
Otherwise you have to start tossing out canon bits like the Borg babies in "Q Who" or Guinan's claim that they are over 100k years old.
It's entirely possible that they were a galactic empire 100k years ago that was reduced down to a point where they only had a handful of systems 900 years ago.
I tend to favor the idea that they simply did not assimilate outside their species or that they were somehow very resource starved for a long time if that's what it takes to keep them 100k years old.
Hey, is there any possibility that we might one day encounter Mirror Universe Borg in STO?
Absolutely none. The mirror universe is different because in that version of history, Zephrim Conchrene (sp I know) discussed the Borg with the visiting Vulcans, which is why the Mirror Universe went heavy military instead of exploration as it's driving force. There are references in a couple of novels that showcase this as the difference. Quoting from one of those novels "...the Borg were encountered very early on and destroyed..."
Actually, it is. The original concept of the Mirror Universe story was a kind of "anti" universe where the good is evil and evil is good. Where the Federation is an iron-fisted Empire ruling it's various vassal planets. Hence the name of the TOS episode that introduced it, "Mirror, Mirror". It was our own universe in mirror image. Therefore there would be Borg and those Borg would, logically, be a true cooperative collective devoid of any use of forced assimilation. As the Borg in the canon Trekverse are the living embodiment of every technophobes worst nightmares the Mirror Borg would be just the opposite. A technocrats dream come true. A race willingly enhanced in such a way that they are connected collectively but with full acknowledgement of and respect for the individual personality of each member. They would grow by inviting others to join with no coercion involved. Somewhat like Nestor in "Battle Beyond The Planets" or the race that Lazarus Long encountered in Heinlein's "Methuselah's Children", except their collective consciousness would be technologically enhanced rather than the result of genetics or advanced evolution. :P
I'm not unaware of any of that but Enterprise gave us peaceful Vulcans landing and DS9 really treated it more as an alternate universe (aside from that one Ferengi episode, which meshes awkwardly).
The original episode doesn't have opposite Halkans. The Halkans are the same. The Vulcans were the same prior to First Contact going by the Enterprise episode. The Tholians are the same. The DS9 stuff that seems different largely seems like the product of the Terrans enslaving everyone.
The reflections all stem from Earth history being different. Things aren't arbitrarily opposite. Humans made them opposite through their interactions.
There's also a tradition of the Vulcans not being opposite at all. T'pol's difference was that she was enslaved and the victim of bigotry. Spock could see the error of the Empire's ways. Tuvok remained a good guy.
The DS9 humans were not wholly evil either. The further they got from Terran culture, the more they seemed just as capable of good as humans in the Prime Universe.
The corruption there is earth specific. There's no sense in imagining that the evil Ocampans and Talaxians are hunting wimpy Hirogen. Or that the Dominion is a democratic state.
I get that a few of the novels have played with that kind of take. I think it's hokey and off-point from the screen portrayals. If you want a universe with good Borg or a peaceful Dominion, create a separate alternate universe and don't try to tack it onto the Mirror Universe. There's no reason you can't have a separate alternate universe that is a recurring element.
Heck, I'd like to see the OPPOSITE of the Mirror Universe where humanity is somehow better than they were in the Prime Universe. Maybe no World War III. And they've extended that influence to the various Galactic powers and you have the Cardassians and Bajorans so friendly that they're rapidly becoming a single species, the Klingons are de-grunged and more like Worf and free of corruption, etc. You could have a lot of fun dreaming that version of things up or any number of side universes.
I just don't see the sense in shoehorning a Good Borg or Good Dominion into the Mirror Universe when it muddles what's been established. You can always make another universe with that as a feature. There are a TON of alternate universes in Star Trek.
Heck, maybe borrow from Parallels explicitly. Have Worf and Troi's son commanding the Enterprise-F in a world where benevolent Borg have gifted everyone with clean technology. It'd be interesting to imagine the visuals for "friendly assimilation" of ships. Instead of tech crammed on and poking holes through the hull, it's assymetrical but seamlessly integrated in. Smooth white contours and friendly teal or yellow plasma pipes.
I'm not against the idea of Friendly Borg from another universe. I can see a really cool way to build action oriented conflict out of that. I just think it would work better building on the template from Parallels than the Mirror Universe specifically.
Assuming the differences in the MU flow from the differences in the Earth, would Mirror Voyager even have been in the badlands to be captured by the Caretaker? Even if they were, would Mirror Janeway have made a similar deal with the Borg regarding Species 8472?
It is entirely possible that in the MU, there ARE no borg left and that eventually the Terran Empire will get a facefull of undine.
Assuming the differences in the MU flow from the differences in the Earth, would Mirror Voyager even have been in the badlands to be captured by the Caretaker? Even if they were, would Mirror Janeway have made a similar deal with the Borg regarding Species 8472?
It is entirely possible that in the MU, there ARE no borg left and that eventually the Terran Empire will get a facefull of undine.
I imagine that in the MU, getting past all the origin/military expansion/exactly what is mirrored/etc etc etc...
Well, that the Borg would be the exact same; driven to achieve perfection.
Rather than assimilate everything they can though, they instead take what makes them better by conventional stealing, and kill off everything else so they are the only perfect things in the universe. That and they're actually aggressive in the MU, destroying potential threats rather than wait for them to become threats
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Assuming the differences in the MU flow from the differences in the Earth, would Mirror Voyager even have been in the badlands to be captured by the Caretaker? Even if they were, would Mirror Janeway have made a similar deal with the Borg regarding Species 8472?
It is entirely possible that in the MU, there ARE no borg left and that eventually the Terran Empire will get a facefull of undine.
It seems unlikely that there was a Mirror Voyager since there was no Mirror Starfleet at that point and Tuvok was hanging out on Bajor.
1: we know the Vaadwaur lied to the crew about at least a few things....
2: we have no reason to believe the Vaadwaur had charted the extent of Borg space. It's possible that the "handful of systems" mentioned were just the systems in the former Vaadwaur Empire.
Thus I see no reason to take that comment at face value.
Comments
We are the Borg. We bring you perfection and low fat cookies. Resistance is futile.
The Borg were originally going to be the parasites from the episode "Conspiracy"
I don't remember exactly why they decided to change them to Cyborgs.
Also, in the Voyager Episode "Dragon's Teeth" one of the Vaadwaur says they knew about the borg at least 900 years ago, they had only assimilated "A hand full of systems"
I've always taken that line to mean that the queen, like much everything else about the borg is a distributed entity existing completely within the hive mind itself, perhaps as an emergent consciousness rather than "belonging" to a particular assimilated being. If you've ever seen those pictures where someone's face is made up of many smaller photograps, something like that. Likewise, the physical queens are simply shells the queen consciousness co-opts for the convenience of interacting directly with the physical world, but they are no more essential to her existence than say a remote control car would be for us. So in that sense, four-dimensional mainly refers to transcending the 3-dimensions of space, since it's fallacious to say she definitively exists anywhere at any given time. And by Seven's admission the memories of deactivated borg drones persist within the collective, so it's possible that because of this archive the queen is capable of existing at all points in time of her life, past and present simultaneously.
1: we know the Vaadwaur lied to the crew about at least a few things....
2: we have no reason to believe the Vaadwaur had charted the extent of Borg space. It's possible that the "handful of systems" mentioned were just the systems in the former Vaadwaur Empire.
Thus I see no reason to take that comment at face value.
My character Tsin'xing
No but there's a pretty big difference between "not taking someone at face value" and actively disbelieving them. Basically until some other information comes along what the Vaadwaur say is an acceptable working model of early borg expansion. It may not be totally reliable, but its better than absolutely nothing.
Besides, there is also:
3. the borg had to start somewhere at some point. Given their incredible and persistent rate of expansion 900 years is a pretty fair guess at least to the borg's "early days".
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
While we may never meet the Mirror Borg in game, the LC crowd in Ten Forward have already written a few stories about the Mirror Borg here. Peruse and enjoy!
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
But the actions of or perhaps the lack of existance/ survival of a Mirror Janeway and or Voyager may well result in a drastically diffrerent turn of events for the Collective
That loss of Infrastructure caused by Voyager may well have been a catalyst for further losses, one which may not have happened in the Mirror Universe.
Perhaps, instead of being a pushover like our current STO Borg, the Mirror Borg are stronger than ever before constituting a far greater threat
Then think about Mirror versions of the Vega Colony, did the Mirror Player Character react the same way?
What about Defera? The Terren Empire probably didn;t cooperate with the Alliance, and so perhaps the borg have a far more secure Foothold there.
Without Starfleets help did the Kang get the cure out? Was Donatra Defeated in the Mirror Universe? Was Manus of Borg successful in assimilating the Starbase fully?
So many variables......
Money, primarily. It's cheaper to glue VCR parts to an extra than it is to find a way to make Riker fighting a handpuppet look awesome.
I liked the origin of borg as done in star trek legacy
borg created by V'ger
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/V'ger
also doesnt the v'ger ship look alot like a unimatrix?
A bit like the Replicaters from Stargate or "Smatter" from "The Culture" universe. A basic concept that can repeat itself in different forms.
The series "Dollhouse" presented one take on how a "Hive Mind" could form (of course it was dependent on tech specific to the Dollhouse setting).
I never really thought a connection between V'ger and the borg made much sense.
For one V'ger produces information by deconstructing its surroundings and analyzing how that fits together within a universal viewpoint. The Borg only consume information through the assimilation of other species, incorporating what others have learned/done but without going much further than that. They each seak perfection but while V'ger was ultimately able to find that by joining with ONE other individual (because of what it was able to learn for itself) the borg must consume civlization after civilizatoin because even with its technology and resources the collective cannot act independently (so any advance must be made by taking it from some other group).
Broadly, they both involve machinery, but the similarities end almost at that.
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Yeah, but in TNG all French guys sound like Patrick Stewart, AKA very very British.
Well, we don't know what happened in World War 3....
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I guess the fictional version of my Future Government really wanted Calais Back
The British Royal Family invited the entire French government to a wedding, and wiped them out, Game of Thrones-style.
Look at her. You can see the wheels turning in her head already.
I'm not one to generally leave a post at this, but LMAO.:D
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Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The Borg predate starfleet. Heck the Vaadwaur had already encountered them before they went into hibernation before Columbus accidentally ran into some islands near the American continents.
well, I could defend my argument if I was allowed to use the time-card
Actually, it is. The original concept of the Mirror Universe story was a kind of "anti" universe where the good is evil and evil is good. Where the Federation is an iron-fisted Empire ruling it's various vassal planets. Hence the name of the TOS episode that introduced it, "Mirror, Mirror". It was our own universe in mirror image. Therefore there would be Borg and those Borg would, logically, be a true cooperative collective devoid of any use of forced assimilation. As the Borg in the canon Trekverse are the living embodiment of every technophobes worst nightmares the Mirror Borg would be just the opposite. A technocrats dream come true. A race willingly enhanced in such a way that they are connected collectively but with full acknowledgement of and respect for the individual personality of each member. They would grow by inviting others to join with no coercion involved. Somewhat like Nestor in "Battle Beyond The Planets" or the race that Lazarus Long encountered in Heinlein's "Methuselah's Children", except their collective consciousness would be technologically enhanced rather than the result of genetics or advanced evolution. :P
See... I subscribe to the theory that for the first 100k years, the Borg existed but did not necessarily assimilate outside of their species.
Otherwise you have to start tossing out canon bits like the Borg babies in "Q Who" or Guinan's claim that they are over 100k years old.
It's entirely possible that they were a galactic empire 100k years ago that was reduced down to a point where they only had a handful of systems 900 years ago.
I tend to favor the idea that they simply did not assimilate outside their species or that they were somehow very resource starved for a long time if that's what it takes to keep them 100k years old.
Absolutely none. The mirror universe is different because in that version of history, Zephrim Conchrene (sp I know) discussed the Borg with the visiting Vulcans, which is why the Mirror Universe went heavy military instead of exploration as it's driving force. There are references in a couple of novels that showcase this as the difference. Quoting from one of those novels "...the Borg were encountered very early on and destroyed..."
I'm not unaware of any of that but Enterprise gave us peaceful Vulcans landing and DS9 really treated it more as an alternate universe (aside from that one Ferengi episode, which meshes awkwardly).
The original episode doesn't have opposite Halkans. The Halkans are the same. The Vulcans were the same prior to First Contact going by the Enterprise episode. The Tholians are the same. The DS9 stuff that seems different largely seems like the product of the Terrans enslaving everyone.
The reflections all stem from Earth history being different. Things aren't arbitrarily opposite. Humans made them opposite through their interactions.
There's also a tradition of the Vulcans not being opposite at all. T'pol's difference was that she was enslaved and the victim of bigotry. Spock could see the error of the Empire's ways. Tuvok remained a good guy.
The DS9 humans were not wholly evil either. The further they got from Terran culture, the more they seemed just as capable of good as humans in the Prime Universe.
The corruption there is earth specific. There's no sense in imagining that the evil Ocampans and Talaxians are hunting wimpy Hirogen. Or that the Dominion is a democratic state.
I get that a few of the novels have played with that kind of take. I think it's hokey and off-point from the screen portrayals. If you want a universe with good Borg or a peaceful Dominion, create a separate alternate universe and don't try to tack it onto the Mirror Universe. There's no reason you can't have a separate alternate universe that is a recurring element.
Heck, I'd like to see the OPPOSITE of the Mirror Universe where humanity is somehow better than they were in the Prime Universe. Maybe no World War III. And they've extended that influence to the various Galactic powers and you have the Cardassians and Bajorans so friendly that they're rapidly becoming a single species, the Klingons are de-grunged and more like Worf and free of corruption, etc. You could have a lot of fun dreaming that version of things up or any number of side universes.
I just don't see the sense in shoehorning a Good Borg or Good Dominion into the Mirror Universe when it muddles what's been established. You can always make another universe with that as a feature. There are a TON of alternate universes in Star Trek.
Heck, maybe borrow from Parallels explicitly. Have Worf and Troi's son commanding the Enterprise-F in a world where benevolent Borg have gifted everyone with clean technology. It'd be interesting to imagine the visuals for "friendly assimilation" of ships. Instead of tech crammed on and poking holes through the hull, it's assymetrical but seamlessly integrated in. Smooth white contours and friendly teal or yellow plasma pipes.
I'm not against the idea of Friendly Borg from another universe. I can see a really cool way to build action oriented conflict out of that. I just think it would work better building on the template from Parallels than the Mirror Universe specifically.
It is entirely possible that in the MU, there ARE no borg left and that eventually the Terran Empire will get a facefull of undine.
Well, that the Borg would be the exact same; driven to achieve perfection.
Rather than assimilate everything they can though, they instead take what makes them better by conventional stealing, and kill off everything else so they are the only perfect things in the universe. That and they're actually aggressive in the MU, destroying potential threats rather than wait for them to become threats
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
It seems unlikely that there was a Mirror Voyager since there was no Mirror Starfleet at that point and Tuvok was hanging out on Bajor.
The best lies always contain some truth.
The Borg were originally intended to be insectoid.
But yeah, black spandex and tubing with some white face paint make for much more budget friendly aliens.