Then explain it to them? Make it obvious? I'm not trying to be an TRIBBLE here guys, but if there is ANY part of this forum where other players feel they aren't welcome because those in said forum attack anyone new/make them feel unwelcome then apparently the rules need to be pushed harder.
Bluntly I don't see an entire sub forum being made JUST for 1 group. The PvP bootcamp was an exception because they were pretty much supported by Cryptic and PWE (including in game rewards etc).
This forum is NOT for just you guys to enjoy yourselves, banter etc. This is for pvp feedback and discussion. If it is about the pvp mechanics, builds, setting up matches, discussing matches sure that makes sense.
If it's real life situations (ie pc dying), funny posts that deal with other games (ie the watch dogs thread), basically anything NOT dealing with pvp then it doesn't belong here.
This isn't a social party, this is a community based forum and this is the feedback forum for pvp.
Granted yes, all the above is my own opinion and the CM team may in their own right decide to do it. I will say this thread was plopped to Smirk on twitter so he probably is paying attention to it.
(And btw - it is obvious to us when you make a post and just add pvp to it to say "it's a pvp thread!")
As for the tier 6 discussion - that's my bad. I was hammering at merging a lot of threads and wasn't paying attention where they were.
Tell me how lvl 50 arenas, and balancing pvp matches with T4, T5, T5.5, T5.9 T5.9 U and T6 ships all in the mix is not about pvp???
How often does the line appear.
"Oh you can do all the queues its not obsolete. It would only matters in pvp, but nobody does that" appear in the PvE forums about the impact of the new ships? I m sure you've read them.
Nobody is excluded form the pvp forums. For christ sake PvP Bootcamp, if anything should show that, it has done anything any STF or NWS channel has ever done times 100.
There is a difference between: "I like the skin of my nebula hence i'd like to fly it during DR release. because i love that ship."
and
"the nebula as a science healer is obsolete"
as for: "then explain it to them"....check my sig 3 years of explanation. Leadboards coming soon eh? Powercreep no longer a problem after X2?
The Spanish 7th Dirty Old Wizard Elite Warriors Core have incorporated Pandas and .Section 31. into their Lore in an attempt to gain Glory or Death by fighting the 182nd Warriors of Gre'thor with a Razor and showing them their Crits!
Good example. I just laughed out loud and not just the typed version. That joke belongs here, no one on the outside would find that funny at all.
I'm not trying to be an TRIBBLE here guys, but if there is ANY part of this forum where other players feel they aren't welcome because those in said forum attack anyone new/make them feel unwelcome then apparently the rules need to be pushed harder.
How many PvE folks have I narc'd on to you, to bluegeek, to syber, to tobar, not sure I ever PM'd kalecto, but to Smirk, to Trendy, back with Brandon...etc, etc, etc...
...because somebody brought up something even remotely related to PvP (mechanics or otherwise) outside the PvP forums and certain (no name and shame) constant PvE trolls descended upon those threads?
Hell, those same folks (no name and shame) if you look at their post history - you see that it consists almost entirely of anti-PvP commentary and baiting.
It's not a case that PvP folks are afraid to go at it with them, but they know that like with many sporting events...it's the guy that threw the last punch, not the first punch, that ends up getting flagged for it. If they take the bait, they'll likely eat a suspension while the PvE trolljah continues on their merry antagonistic fight.
It's not a PvP vs. PvE thing...there are folks that do both, there are folks that only do one but try to get along with everybody...
Cause honestly, the PvP forums aren't the only place where a subcommunity discusses things that aren't quite "on topic" for the subforum description. There are all sorts of subcommunities in the PvE arena of things where they discuss things in various subforums rather than going to Ten Forward which tends to a particular (and peculiar) subcommunity in of itself.
If it's a case of moving all that "off topic" stuff to Ten Forward, then all of that "off topic" stuff for all the subcommunities needs to be moved there - all of the "on topic" stuff needs to be resorted so that it's not so spread out...and then call it a day.
Otherwise, well...some of the PvP folks are likely to feel targeted...and yeah, well - we all know how that leads to some folks involuntarily no longer posting.
One should also keep in mind that due to Cryptic's negligence of PVP, the only "content" that can be discussed are things like genral strategies and of course the players and fleets participating in PVP.
There can only be so many "What's the optimal strategy for winning in C&H / Arena?" threads when these two game mode are pretty much the only ones we have had in four years.
Other subgroups in STO like the foundry community or a general PVE-mission crowd can discuss new content (either selfmade or whenever Cryptic releases new missions), but PVP does not get new content and the true basics (crosshealing, focus fire) of PVP haven't changed in years. This leaves changes in items and abilites (which by the official forum logic would need to be placed in "Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics" anyway) and of course opponents.
Instead of "How to beat mission XYZ" or "I hate how the gate oneshots my ship!" it's "How can one beat fleet XYZ?" and "I hate that player XYZ always kills me with FBP!". The participants are the content. Much more than other parts of this game - which has a strong tendency to cater to a singleplayer experience - PVP is about community and playing together and against other players. Obviously this also reflects in the forum culture. It's always about the things that are new and changing - and in the case of PVP this means people rather than the neglected static content.
Heh, along the lines of what Hilbert was saying...
There's a big difference between the DPS guys sharing builds/strats with others on how to obliterate PvE content...and uh...say having the Pandas or HOBOs having public discussions about tactics.
So you'll get into some basic PUG/Ker'rat-like discussions...which er, kind of lean toward PvP Bootcamp/PvP Academy sort of things, no?
Otherwise, you'll be looking at builds/mechanics discussions - which like the plethora of discussions spread out all over the place should probably be in the Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics subforum, eh?
Which leaves...what to be discussed in the PvP forums?
Which is probably why there's all the other stuff there that the mods do not want there, eh?
Honestly, I am on the pvper's side. I WANT more pvp in the game. Hell I'd love open world pvp! (Yes yes I know go play eve yadda yadda). I was tickled pink when those convoy maps popped up and I was allowed to go into them even as a lowbie, start attacking the fed ships and have other captains come warping in to stop me. I LOVED THAT. I WANT that and have said it many times over. I get the whole "oh but you can be griefed" junk but honestly? I went in as a lt cmdr, got beaten down by people way higher than me but had TONS of fun doing it!
Again, I'm not against pvper's getting things. On the contrary, but when it comes down to forum stuff I have a different opinion hehe.
Ok...would you mind answering something?
You are only a forum moderator, correct? Your views and opinions are NOT the views and opinions of PWE, Cryptic, etc, etc, right?
If that is the case, put it all aside. Don't worry about Smirk, Trendy, other devs, other forum mods...just you. Just you the player, in fact...put yourself only in the shoes of a PvPer at that.
A long-term PvPer who has been seeing all these threads being moved and moderated so much recently, wouldn't you feel at least a bit targeted (even unintentionally), especially seeing as non-PvPers come into those threads and say nasty stuff about PvP, while also not even knowing the context of the thread in the first place, all while (seemingly) getting off without any consequences?
I'm not doubting your words at all Askray, I fully believe you mean what you say about wanting more for PvP. But your position as a moderator means you have other things you must think about as well, thus leaving you unable to 100% see it from our POV.
I'm not trying to be an TRIBBLE with this either, just being honest about how I see it. We do feel a bit targeted about all this. We see threads moderated or moved that to us didn't feel like they should be moved, while on the other parts of the forums things seem to go on and on without it apparently even being touched.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
You are only a forum moderator, correct? Your views and opinions are NOT the views and opinions of PWE, Cryptic, etc, etc, right?
If that is the case, put it all aside. Don't worry about Smirk, Trendy, other devs, other forum mods...just you. Just you the player, in fact...put yourself only in the shoes of a PvPer at that.
A long-term PvPer who has been seeing all these threads being moved and moderated so much recently, wouldn't you feel at least a bit targeted (even unintentionally), especially seeing as non-PvPers come into those threads and say nasty stuff about PvP, while also not even knowing the context of the thread in the first place, all while (seemingly) getting off without any consequences?
I'm not doubting your words at all Askray, I fully believe you mean what you say about wanting more for PvP. But your position as a moderator means you have other things you must think about as well, thus leaving you unable to 100% see it from our POV.
I'm not trying to be an TRIBBLE with this either, just being honest about how I see it. We do feel a bit targeted about all this. We see threads moderated or moved that to us didn't feel like they should be moved, while on the other parts of the forums things seem to go on and on without it apparently even being touched.
Nope I wouldn't feel targetted. Why? Because the forums are more than just 1 sub forum. Here I'll give you a few numbers (note: this is just from 1 week, without any context or details as I cannot do such). It's also late, I've been up a long long time and I'm very tired heh.
I've gotten 41 PM's (across the forums, and ARC). Of those, 37 of them were notices of moderation issues. 2 were about the PvP forum.
Number of warnings/infractions sent out from Aug 18th to Aug 27th - 33
Of those warnings/infractions sent, the number of them on the pvp forum threads - 5
Threads moved, merged or closed are extremely difficult to count as I don't have access to a mod log system however there are A LOT not just from this forum. Probably today there has been twice the number of warnings/infractions sent since the 18th alone. =\
And that's just the past 10 days. 3 of us, working pretty much around the clock trying our damnedest to keep the forums somewhat tidy. And we all know it's a massive uphill battle
That's just a little background information on what's going on. We aren't targetting anyone directly. Are there forums we pay more attention to than others? Yes for sure. GNN is one of them because that's the announcement area. You all are feeling the heat now because we're active atm in this forum. Is it some rotation type thing? Nope. It's because the type of threads being created, the notices we get, and the situations.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Askray... just to say it. Thanks for coming and having the discussion with us. I think we all appreciate that. We may not see eye to eye, I respect that you are willing to have the discussion though. No matter what happens changes or not, thanks for being part of the conversation. As you know it seems us PvPers do debate pretty hard, we do understand why most of the Cryptic team aren't lining up to debate us on the forums all the time. lol
I think at this point there isn't to much to say, until we hear a thought from someone at Cryptic. In the end its up to them, and I'm sure they take input from you and the other mods as well. I don't know if we have won you over at all... I would like to think we have perhaps softened your position. Regardless I hope all the people that have a stake talk it out, and I know I would like to see something change in someway to keep this end of the forums lively. At this point I think the ball is in Cryptics court.
Askray... just to say it. Thanks for coming and having the discussion with us. I think we all appreciate that. We may not see eye to eye, I respect that you are willing to have the discussion though. No matter what happens changes or not, thanks for being part of the conversation. As you know it seems us PvPers do debate pretty hard, we do understand why most of the Cryptic team aren't lining up to debate us on the forums all the time. lol
I think at this point there isn't to much to say, until we hear a thought from someone at Cryptic. In the end its up to them, and I'm sure they take input from you and the other mods as well. I don't know if we have won you over at all... I would like to think we have perhaps softened your position. Regardless I hope all the people that have a stake talk it out, and I know I would like to see something change in someway to keep this end of the forums lively. At this point I think the ball is in Cryptics court.
PWE's court mostly. Cryptic is the dev arm :P
And it's not a big issue. I'm willing to debate/discuss/argue points with people at length as long as it doesn't step on any rules Once that happens then yes, I haz final say and win the internet hehe.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Could we maybe remove all the other sections of the forums?
Maybe keep Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics along with PvP Gameplay?
Cause I'm never going to see 13k posts as long as I have to read TRIBBLE like what's being posted in the T5-U thread in GNN. Meh, I probably won't see 12,600 posts reading that garbage.
Comments
Tell me how lvl 50 arenas, and balancing pvp matches with T4, T5, T5.5, T5.9 T5.9 U and T6 ships all in the mix is not about pvp???
How often does the line appear.
"Oh you can do all the queues its not obsolete. It would only matters in pvp, but nobody does that" appear in the PvE forums about the impact of the new ships? I m sure you've read them.
Nobody is excluded form the pvp forums. For christ sake PvP Bootcamp, if anything should show that, it has done anything any STF or NWS channel has ever done times 100.
There is a difference between: "I like the skin of my nebula hence i'd like to fly it during DR release. because i love that ship."
and
"the nebula as a science healer is obsolete"
as for: "then explain it to them"....check my sig 3 years of explanation. Leadboards coming soon eh? Powercreep no longer a problem after X2?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Good example. I just laughed out loud and not just the typed version. That joke belongs here, no one on the outside would find that funny at all.
i m out of here...enjoy the show all
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
How many PvE folks have I narc'd on to you, to bluegeek, to syber, to tobar, not sure I ever PM'd kalecto, but to Smirk, to Trendy, back with Brandon...etc, etc, etc...
...because somebody brought up something even remotely related to PvP (mechanics or otherwise) outside the PvP forums and certain (no name and shame) constant PvE trolls descended upon those threads?
Hell, those same folks (no name and shame) if you look at their post history - you see that it consists almost entirely of anti-PvP commentary and baiting.
It's not a case that PvP folks are afraid to go at it with them, but they know that like with many sporting events...it's the guy that threw the last punch, not the first punch, that ends up getting flagged for it. If they take the bait, they'll likely eat a suspension while the PvE trolljah continues on their merry antagonistic fight.
It's not a PvP vs. PvE thing...there are folks that do both, there are folks that only do one but try to get along with everybody...
Cause honestly, the PvP forums aren't the only place where a subcommunity discusses things that aren't quite "on topic" for the subforum description. There are all sorts of subcommunities in the PvE arena of things where they discuss things in various subforums rather than going to Ten Forward which tends to a particular (and peculiar) subcommunity in of itself.
If it's a case of moving all that "off topic" stuff to Ten Forward, then all of that "off topic" stuff for all the subcommunities needs to be moved there - all of the "on topic" stuff needs to be resorted so that it's not so spread out...and then call it a day.
Otherwise, well...some of the PvP folks are likely to feel targeted...and yeah, well - we all know how that leads to some folks involuntarily no longer posting.
There can only be so many "What's the optimal strategy for winning in C&H / Arena?" threads when these two game mode are pretty much the only ones we have had in four years.
Other subgroups in STO like the foundry community or a general PVE-mission crowd can discuss new content (either selfmade or whenever Cryptic releases new missions), but PVP does not get new content and the true basics (crosshealing, focus fire) of PVP haven't changed in years. This leaves changes in items and abilites (which by the official forum logic would need to be placed in "Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics" anyway) and of course opponents.
Instead of "How to beat mission XYZ" or "I hate how the gate oneshots my ship!" it's "How can one beat fleet XYZ?" and "I hate that player XYZ always kills me with FBP!". The participants are the content. Much more than other parts of this game - which has a strong tendency to cater to a singleplayer experience - PVP is about community and playing together and against other players. Obviously this also reflects in the forum culture. It's always about the things that are new and changing - and in the case of PVP this means people rather than the neglected static content.
There's a big difference between the DPS guys sharing builds/strats with others on how to obliterate PvE content...and uh...say having the Pandas or HOBOs having public discussions about tactics.
So you'll get into some basic PUG/Ker'rat-like discussions...which er, kind of lean toward PvP Bootcamp/PvP Academy sort of things, no?
Otherwise, you'll be looking at builds/mechanics discussions - which like the plethora of discussions spread out all over the place should probably be in the Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics subforum, eh?
Which leaves...what to be discussed in the PvP forums?
Which is probably why there's all the other stuff there that the mods do not want there, eh?
Ok...would you mind answering something?
You are only a forum moderator, correct? Your views and opinions are NOT the views and opinions of PWE, Cryptic, etc, etc, right?
If that is the case, put it all aside. Don't worry about Smirk, Trendy, other devs, other forum mods...just you. Just you the player, in fact...put yourself only in the shoes of a PvPer at that.
A long-term PvPer who has been seeing all these threads being moved and moderated so much recently, wouldn't you feel at least a bit targeted (even unintentionally), especially seeing as non-PvPers come into those threads and say nasty stuff about PvP, while also not even knowing the context of the thread in the first place, all while (seemingly) getting off without any consequences?
I'm not doubting your words at all Askray, I fully believe you mean what you say about wanting more for PvP. But your position as a moderator means you have other things you must think about as well, thus leaving you unable to 100% see it from our POV.
I'm not trying to be an TRIBBLE with this either, just being honest about how I see it. We do feel a bit targeted about all this. We see threads moderated or moved that to us didn't feel like they should be moved, while on the other parts of the forums things seem to go on and on without it apparently even being touched.
Nope I wouldn't feel targetted. Why? Because the forums are more than just 1 sub forum. Here I'll give you a few numbers (note: this is just from 1 week, without any context or details as I cannot do such). It's also late, I've been up a long long time and I'm very tired heh.
I've gotten 41 PM's (across the forums, and ARC). Of those, 37 of them were notices of moderation issues. 2 were about the PvP forum.
Number of warnings/infractions sent out from Aug 18th to Aug 27th - 33
Of those warnings/infractions sent, the number of them on the pvp forum threads - 5
Threads moved, merged or closed are extremely difficult to count as I don't have access to a mod log system however there are A LOT not just from this forum. Probably today there has been twice the number of warnings/infractions sent since the 18th alone. =\
And that's just the past 10 days. 3 of us, working pretty much around the clock trying our damnedest to keep the forums somewhat tidy. And we all know it's a massive uphill battle
That's just a little background information on what's going on. We aren't targetting anyone directly. Are there forums we pay more attention to than others? Yes for sure. GNN is one of them because that's the announcement area. You all are feeling the heat now because we're active atm in this forum. Is it some rotation type thing? Nope. It's because the type of threads being created, the notices we get, and the situations.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I think at this point there isn't to much to say, until we hear a thought from someone at Cryptic. In the end its up to them, and I'm sure they take input from you and the other mods as well. I don't know if we have won you over at all... I would like to think we have perhaps softened your position. Regardless I hope all the people that have a stake talk it out, and I know I would like to see something change in someway to keep this end of the forums lively. At this point I think the ball is in Cryptics court.
PWE's court mostly. Cryptic is the dev arm :P
And it's not a big issue. I'm willing to debate/discuss/argue points with people at length as long as it doesn't step on any rules
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Maybe keep Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics along with PvP Gameplay?
Cause I'm never going to see 13k posts as long as I have to read TRIBBLE like what's being posted in the T5-U thread in GNN. Meh, I probably won't see 12,600 posts reading that garbage.
Well there is a reason it went like it did. Ten forward is FULL of dilettantes.
So sad. They don't even know it.
excellent read(!!!), but where are the moving pictures?
should hang just above the desk of every single dev!
To funny... if the point isn't clear from that thread... then I don't think there is really anything else we could say. lmao
I never really thought about it quite like that. PvP is a mirror into our souls!
:eek:
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.