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Can we have a new subforum for social stuff?
mancom
Member Posts: 784 Arc User
Currently the PVP section (description: "This is where you post your feedback on PvP content.") has the PVP Bootcamp as a subforum.
I have the impression that these days PVP is often more about the social aspect of playing together than it is about the PVP content itself. Unfortunately the importance of the PVPers as a close-knit community seems to clash with the "feedback on PVP content" description of the PVP section and so in recent times we have often seen relevant messages that are only of interest to the small PVP community (like "My PC is on fire, so I can't currently play; but don't worry, soon I'll tric you again in a couple of weeks") redirected to other parts of the forums that have little connection to the target audience of that message. And really, how much feedback (that usually doesn't gain much traction with the devs anyway) can one give on content that essentially has not changed in 4 years?
Therefore here is a suggestion: Add a subforum (like you have already done for Bootcamp) to the PVP section ("Community Chatter" or something) that allows the discussion of PVP community issues rather than just "feedback on PVP content".
I have the impression that these days PVP is often more about the social aspect of playing together than it is about the PVP content itself. Unfortunately the importance of the PVPers as a close-knit community seems to clash with the "feedback on PVP content" description of the PVP section and so in recent times we have often seen relevant messages that are only of interest to the small PVP community (like "My PC is on fire, so I can't currently play; but don't worry, soon I'll tric you again in a couple of weeks") redirected to other parts of the forums that have little connection to the target audience of that message. And really, how much feedback (that usually doesn't gain much traction with the devs anyway) can one give on content that essentially has not changed in 4 years?
Therefore here is a suggestion: Add a subforum (like you have already done for Bootcamp) to the PVP section ("Community Chatter" or something) that allows the discussion of PVP community issues rather than just "feedback on PVP content".
Post edited by mancom on
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Forcas! Forcas! Forcas!
Oh wait, have to include the Feds...er...no idea then. :P
This man gets a cookie
Moving stuff to Ten Forward is a conspiracy to remove PvP from the game. We've all had good friends that have accidentally stopped by Ten Forward and never returned to the game...
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
uh-oh...
*artificial gravity turns back on*
Two thumbs up for his simple and elegant solution.
Some of us really only frequent the PvP forum. Some of us also enjoy things like "fun", "community", and "social interaction". Most of the build and mechanics discussions are just a chorus of "I agree!" because we're preaching to the converted.
Uh oh, apparently some klingon put a batleth on the floor....
*splat*
To the OP: signed, signed again and signed another time. Oh, and signed too.
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
personal shields ftw.
They don't protect from melee, sorry...
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
And I'm of two minds about it.
On the one hand, it's not a totally unreasonable suggestion. It's technically feasible.
But.
First of all, let's talk about the elephant in the room. If some of you are thinking that you'd get your very own subforum where you can trash talk and break normal forum rules, that isn't going to happen. The adversarial nature of many of the 'social' posts in this forum is not acceptable. Moving it somewhere else doesn't make it better.
If you really want your own little corner of the forums to socialize in, some of you need to learn to play nice. PWE has no incentive to encourage more of the same thing that they're trying to put a lid on, and the case for setting up a dedicated subforum is practically doomed from the start.
Secondly, PWE needs to answer the question for itself whether the PvE community needs it's own independent social area and whether that's in their best interests to promote. In other words, why should you guys get different treatment from other members of the community?
Well, there is precedent. First of all, RP'ers got their own subforum under Ten Forward for fan fic. Fleets get their own forums. There are separate discussion forums for Feds, KDF, and Romulans. So I think there is a case to be made in favor of it.
But does it really need its' own subforum? Probably depends on what you mean by "social stuff".
The stuff that got moved, removed, or closed wasn't "hey let's go raid Kerrat Friday night!" or "That was a great match yesterday!". I personally would never think of interfering with that, even though it's not necessarily PvP feedback. We've always allowed people to organize matches on this forum and I don't see that changing.
Was it roleplaying in a PvP context? We have an existing forum set aside for roleplay. Why do we need another one? I'm not shooting you down here, I'm inviting you to make the case for it. It's not me you have to convince.
Was it trash talking? A lot of that is very borderline where the forum rules go, and some people go way over the border. One or two posts here and there, with no clear violation of the rules, maybe we could turn a blind eye to if nobody gets upset. Pages and pages of the stuff? If it looks like an argument or flaming, we're going to shut it down period.
Another thing about the forums to remember is that in the end it's all about promoting the game. Among other considerations it means that the forum has to be actively managed and focused on things that promote the game. I can tell you from my own personal experience that the more categories, forums, and subforums that get added the harder it is to manage.
Some of you may remember the last time BranFlakes reorganized the forums. A lot of discussion went on about which forums were needed and which were not. Some of the changes were made based on player feedback. Other changes were made based on Dev feedback. I remember that the idea of creating a lot of different subforums was shot down. Partly because of forum management issues and I think partly because it was seen as unproductive. Sometimes simpler and 'flatter' is better.
IMO, it boils down to this: Would a PvP-centric social subforum promote the game in a positive light, benefit the PvP community, and be worth any additional forum management necessary?
I'm not at all convinced the answer to that question is 'yes'. It would be great for some of you, if it stayed free of trolls and flames and arguments. But the way things are going and have been for a long time now? Just a lot more closed threads and moderation, I'm afraid.
Again, this is my own personal opinion. I don't make the decision. Make your case and maybe PWE will grant your wish.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Mancoms OP doesn't ask for a section to RP flame each other to death in. He isn't talking about threads you guys nuke because they have become toxic. We are talking about threads that are constantly getting moved to ten forward. As they are not offensive or full of anything against the rules, it simply doesn't apply directly to the "PvP feedback" section.
As for PvE people not getting the same treatment. So what. Life isn't about what someone else has. There 2 very different communities. Having said that it can easily be argued that the entirety of the rest of the forums is one big PvE section. Really if Cryptic feels they need it add subforums there to... that really isn't out concern. What they have or do not have has no effect on my life.
Thank you for the in depth response BG. I hope you pass the idea up to those who make such decisions. Its a simple add to the sub forum parent. 2min of work. I have no doubt if it happens you and the other mods will have to likely make it clear RP style smack talk that goes over the line is still not welcome. Can't say it will make your lives easier, it won't make it any harder. It will mean fewer of our threads will get sent to the ten forward or general feedback dust bin. Which would make for a much better user experience. Which is what Cryptic should mainly be concerned with.
And this is why we can't have nice things... ~Bluegeek
One message I am trying to convey is that the case for getting a new subforum is immediately damaged by the unfortunately routine bad conduct of others.
We could define limits for it. And people who ignore the rules now would ignore the limits. But those people are going to end up banned eventually anyhow, so for the sake of discussion let's go ahead and throw that consideration out.
I am not personally aware of any threads involving PvP matches or "shout outs" about the availability to play that got moved elsewhere. I can't say that I've really seen any of the latter.
So if you're allowed to organize matches here and there are so few "shout out" threads that I can't remember seeing any, why again do we need another subforum?
Maybe we mods and the CM's just need to put our heads together and agree on what belongs where. I'm okay with friendly PvP-related social threads staying here, as long as they don't crowd out other feedback, but that's just my own opinion.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek